Unhappy 1 Year Anniversary!

[JC the Builder]

That is nice and all. But correct me if I am wrong, most of the PvP that does occur happens at them or moongate duels. If not then where else? So, the question you didn't answer remains, are there enough people to support two systems? Or alternately, are you willing to give up or tone back the champ spawns for another system?

PVP happens where there is a focal point. Champion spawns are an easy one because they are known spots and they have the most consistent rewards. Collapsing houses are another, but they need to be scouted and sometimes you don't know when they will collapse. Moongates used to be a lot more popular but due to private housing, they have drastically decreased in popularity.

There is no need to take away one thing just because you add another.

 

[FishinFool]

Factions were a waste of time since the beginning. The only reason they were implemented was to silence a rather vocal individual who was damaging the game's rep. It worked when Mythic hired LtM and it worked with him as well.

Even he abandoned his own creation after he realised it was horribly borked and could not be fixed.

The only way they could make money off a faction content related booster is if it was a footnote to a larger content that the masses actually want.

 

[Amber Moon]

It worked when Mythic hired LtM and it worked with him as well.

Well, Scott is still around you know and still talkin trash about game development. Initially he was hired by Mythic as a web and internal applications developer for Camelot and only after some years got into the true game development side. And, as far as I know, was never involved with UO in any way except as an early critic of some design features.

He is long gone from Mythic as this point.

 

[ReaperNI]

playing uo is like that song going to hell in a bucket but atleast im enjoying the ride. I BEG THE EM/GM/DEV/WHOEVER to continue to do nothing wait this isnt the board to drive uo into the ground because of neglence crap where the link to that one? nothing changes Reaper

 

[FishinFool]

I was merely using him as an example since I could remember his name. Most of his scorn was directed towards EQ, if I recall.

The guy UO related was Aldric or something along those line, can't remember for sure. He actually stuck around for quite a while though. I think he was one of the ones who left when they left Austin.

 

[Nightly Spirit]

Faction artifacts SHOULD NOT be able to be able to be equipped in trammel, or atleast have no effect. In any case, are you ready for a unhappy 2nd year anniversary?

 

[Zyon Rockler]

Well, we're going down the same road again, Woodsman. I think, balance has always been an issue in UO. It was the main reason for Factions. It was supposed to be a Guild of Guilds, where the GMs create an alliance, where Kings bow down to each other and set their men to any challenge.

But, that's not what happened. Instead, the system split the people and created greed. Smashing team work and making the enemy, you and me, and making what was yours, mine and my war, yours.

The only equal to this, the only thing that could set this straight, would be the system, itself. Even though, you want to have player control, I think you need to have a system, that over sees, by collecting information and then using that information to create balance.

At the beginning, we've seen this. The champ spawn began and it was won but the objective changed. Now, imagine a system, created balance. For example: 5 people begin a champ spawn. They complete Tier 1 and head into Tier 2, while in the area, the system is keeping count. 10 more enter and begin to do damage to the 5. All of a sudden, Guardians spawn and begin to remove the 5, creating balance and a fair, field of play.

Other things could happen as well. Less of a chance for reward. If you didn't start and finish the spawn, the boss would have a chance to instant kill anyone who has not killed a percentage of the spawn and does damage to the boss.

Now, this might sound, Trammy but the reason behind it, is to protect the player and create balance. The same thing could be done with Factions, where you use the spawns. For example: If TB had one man and COM had 5,000, which of course, you could have a balancing system right there, like Battle Field, where you change teams automatically but if you didn't, then imagine that man in TB, is holding a chain in his hand and attatched to the chain is a dragon equal to 4,999 men.

 

[Podolak]

I was definitely stoked when last year's faction changes went to TC. I spent time testing them and sure there were flaws but it was awesome to see something different.

I know the classic shard being shelved was a big blow but perhaps if there was a resurgence in faction development it might make some content. I am not a programmer but it seems to me a few small changes would go a long way. I've already said this in another thread but I guess i can reiterate it here, fixing points on many shards and possibly allow healing red faction/guild allies in GZ or some kind of GZ removal.

 

[Taka]

I vote for Faction 100%!!!!

It one way to save UO and keep the fun in Fel.

I alway have some idea about Faction that I hope the UO team can look into it.

Faction point change
You get reward with 5 point for been Top damage deal to the dead enemy
3 faction point for last hit and 2 faction point for damage deal to a enemy that helped to cause him dead. A increase in this point thing will help people to keep their point at a level which they can still use for reward and play well.

The faction artifact should have no level. As long as you in faction you can buy the artifact and use it. Artifact should have no level so everyone who join can wear the artifact and have a level field of fight. The faction kill point should give people chance to get cool item that can help in battle or deco hehe

what the use of having higher faction kill point??
Having some cool Title when you reach certain point
You can purchase Higher reward from which require certain kill point
reward like faction Bless deed for blessing your imbuing weapon and armor.
Faction Item bless deed last for 3 day(require sliver coin and certain rank)
Faction Neon Dye Robe (give you ablity to reduce skill lost to 5 min )
So you can fight more and less waiting time.
Faction Reward for the winning team which capture and defend the silg.
They will have a bag of imbuing item (small amount of random resource + Sliver coin + A Chance of Faction Rare deco item or artifact)

The time for capture and defend a silg should be one hour.
after a succesful capture and defend there will be a rest time of a hour.
Time of all this is short so people can come on and fight.
Alot of people work and all people have different time where they can login and play. But they all want to join in the fun and war.

One thing is the capture and defend only can start if you have sign up at the silg stone . example : once there is 10 people who sign their name in the last 20min. It will active the capture and defend game. All faction will recieve a message like CoM is on the Rise and plotting a Capture. the people only CoM might recieve a message like We need backup at the BASE !

This are some of my idea I have, The main thing is there must have a Reward to keep people coming. It list of collectable Deco and new AF might increase the player to play and fight. Every three month The team can add in new stuff which people can fight for.

Spawn been play by faction char will become a faction Spawn where if a enemy team come attack the reward can double. Double as in the boss will drop faction Deco item instead of replica. Powerscroll will remain But I seriously think they need a new thing for people to fight for too. Maybe a Faction Scroll. What the scroll do is it increase your skill +10 to +20 for a time period like 3 day etc What this scroll does is people can use it to increase their fighting skill right away without the need to train it. Just a idea again !

Well I can go on dreaming about all this. Just my 5 cent idea !! forgive my broken english and if there some idea you dun like it do talk about it.

Day by Day, Week by week, Month by month I think about Faction Change. Will it come!!! I am in my 11 year of UO now and I my love for it as good as day one whaha

 

[Eyrothath]

My guild is in a faction on Pacific and yeah, it is pretty much dead when it comes to factions.. Points should depend on your involvement within factions, like someone said, give it a PVM focus.. Points should be gathered not just through PVP for through PVM(faction monster in Fel) The same ones that you can get silver off of. Points should be earned by how involved you are in a battle.. I think a scoring system similar to that of "WoW" where you gain honor points just for dying.. Remove silver.. Points would essentially = Silver and you would spend your points on artifacts/rewards etc... Remove stat loss, it is such a dead system right now, the 20 stat loss will keep people away, it was meant to keep people from getting back into battle quickly, I don't see many faction "battles" going on, however.. As far as ranks go, they are a good idea on paper. This should fall under a different point system, something that keeps track of your involvement within your faction which adds points to a score board, allowing you go up in rank..

Heh.. There should be BATTLE zones fully dedicated to world PVP within PVE areas, even across other facets.. Similar to champ spawns, but for factions and the rewards would be faction rewards only and one could only get the rewards through these certain PVE areas/Battle Zones.. It would be very much similar to a Fel Champ Spawn, only one would get some special artifacts out of it, made for factions..

OR on a second note, maybe there could be MULTIPLE currencies.. Depending on the area, you would get a whole different set of "points" as a currency and use these points within the area to get a reward of ones choosing.. Kind of hard for me to explain, but I think people will get my drift..

Sigals: Yeeeah, No! Just... No! I think town control is still a good idea, but there should be something else.. We should take faction battles elsewhere rather than at the faction "bases" like has been done in the past, I think faction bases(which would still be faction only) should be more like safe havens for faction members and should be full towns, rather than some tiny, pointless base..

And yes.. There needs to be LESS factions.. I would recommend TWO similar to order vs chaos, there would be only two.. With how little involvement there currently is, players are spread to thin, so it would basically be good vs evil..

However, with queen dawn dead and Felucca pretty much an anarchy, I think it would be a good time to re-visit the way towns get captured, I think there should be an entirely separate mini-faction system for this where a "faction guild" of the two main factions order/chaos could sign up in a TOWN faction(I am calling these) and there would be one in each town, again, each town would have their own rewards and currencies, the towns be in constant battle to conquer each other.. For each ones rewards and artifacts..

I think an entirely different FACET should be made for factions, it would be a good expansion or booster, it would have all the faction bases located and you would have to be in a faction just to visit it..

 

[ham349]

Can you believe it went by so quickly? One year ago us players were once again teased with a major overhaul of the much loved Faction system. On this day, April 14 of 2010, UO developer Phoenix posted the testing commencement announcement.

In the days that followed there were hundreds of posts of heated debate on all the changes. No other change/addition in years had stirred so much interest. People not even currently subscribed were expressing interest in the update.

Then nothing. Within a couple weeks the developers completely stopped communicating about their faction ideas. It wasn't until months later that we recieved confirmation that Faction development was completely halted. I see another post by Nexus that Mesanna stated Factions is still not being worked on.

I just don't understand why the thing that has generated the most interest by players, besides a Classic shard, has been picked up only to be put down time and time again. I counted 500 posts within 2 days of the announcement. The topic on an obscure test forum has almost 17,000 views, more than any almost any UHall topic which is newer.

It sounds like boosters are not happening anymore, which is a shame. Factions would have been 10x more successful a booster than High Seas. Unless you were a fisherman, High Seas had nothing to offer in terms of lasting content.

If Factions was done right, it would definitely draw people back to UO.

If Faction updates would make you play UO more, you should reply to this topic.

I agree Link, they should have kept their focus on fixing factions, rather than the High Seas Booster. That's pretty greedy if you ask me.

They should not only focus on fixing factions & a classic shard, I think that they should come up with some major event in which not only did trammel go away completely for a period of time, but there were no guards anywhere as well.

 

[Goldberg-Chessy]

Does anyone else remember when factions worked? There were two factions Order vs Chaos and they worked just fine. No overly complicated town systems, no sigils to steal, just good old fashion combat.

It's been really odd to me to see the Order/Chaos system (which by the way was not Factions, but a separate system) remembered so well by so many, because at the time, at least on LS where I played, no one was really happy with it.

People accused each other of only joining for the Artifacts (back then they weren't called Artifacts, but I mean to refer to the Chaos Shields and Order Shields which were at the time only wearable by folks in Order/Chaos), and of avoiding PvP. I also read a lot about how there was no "real" reason to join Order/Chaos. (The shields weren't considered "real" by everyone.)

Sound familiar?

When Factions originally came out, within weeks the rap on Order/Chaos became that it was full of inferior PvPers, relative to Factions. When I pointed out that in Order/Chaos you couldn't escape the fighting, whereas in Factions you could tun to any map besides Felucca and not have to fight at all, I was called a noob, a Trammie, etc. I didn't get it, you see. I just didn't get it.

*shrugs*

When Order/Chaos was eliminated I don't remember a single post decrying said elimination.

I suppose there probably were some that I didn't notice. That happens from time to time.

-Galen's player

I loved Order/Chaos & have asked for its return many times.

It wasnt about shields or items. That was the beauty of it. You just joined up and fought everyone in sight everywhere. No strutting around like a sad peacock spamming "Punkte"
I honor your what?
Wtf were the Devs thinking when they made it possible to buy what basically amounts to false bragging rights? Just plain sad.

 

[Goldberg-Chessy]

How would this help faction play, Galen? Very few would use a war horse any more if they can only be rezzed by a vet NPC in a town your faction controls. And to prevent a tamer with at least 80 vet and 80 lore skill that is in factions from rezzing war horses doesn't make any sense at all.

Also, I would disagree with retaining the ability to transfer points between characters. It's a sham and makes the whole system meaningless for people who really want to use it as a means to evaluate who actually has some skill and not just access to a bunch of extra characters.

*shakes head*

This is much out-of-date. The "sham" (your word) these days has nothing to do with point transfers; it involves killing a friend in an opposing Faction, or someone you hired in an opposing Faction, usually in a war zone.

I forget what the going rate for a Faction Point dummy is but it's a pretty good price just to get killed once and undergo 20 minutes of skill loss.

The purpose of point sharing in this context is to reward people who perform such tasks as fielding and healing. These characters rarely get points, because they rarely land a kill ****, but play a critically important role.

Keeping point sharing is, I argue, a superior alternative to what they had in the overhaul system, where you got points for almost every action you did in a Faction Base. Including casting spells.

This was how you used to reward thieves too, but personally I like the idea of thievery itself having points. But maybe that's just me.

So, no Tina, it is not a sham because it assumes, correctly, that more goes on in Factions than landing kill shots, then leaves it to the players to determine how to reward these critical tasks.

Rather than a sham it is cooperation.

I use sham by the way because it's the word you used in your original post; a word with what I have to presume are intentionally negative connotations given that you're using the word in the context of a criticism.

-Galen's player

I completely agree with Tina. Faction points are a scam.

I completely disagree with your argument that the point system is in place to reward what you describe as support players.
What are the current end-uses for points?
To be able to wear high level gear and to strut around saying punkte.

The support players in your scenario should have no need for either. If you are just casting fields & healing to help your allies then you hav no need for uber gear. You can do that with any old basic gear. And if you are not capable of killing an opponent on your own you have no right to say 'punkte'

Your supposed support characters should be more then able to get plenty of kill points during the times they are not fielding/healing. Absolutely no need for a system that allows them to be handed out points.
Nobody on any shard says "hey bud, great job healing us today. Here is 10 million points"

Points are simply handed out like candy to everyone because they are so easy to obtain.

 

[Cear Dallben Dragon]

Do I care about factions, yes. Sadly I do.
Personally, I feel like since they came out with all those changes based on possibly no feedback at all from faction players. The fact they refuse to work on it now is a cop out. I kinda feel like they owe it to us now. Factions, focus groups, real feedback, and a factions booster. With the booster system in place they have a great excuse to single out factions and work on them now.

Taken from my factions forums thread post.

 

[Tina Small]

Do I care about factions, yes. Sadly I do.
Personally, I feel like since they came out with all those changes based on possibly no feedback at all from faction players. The fact they refuse to work on it now is a cop out. I kinda feel like they owe it to us now. Factions, focus groups, real feedback, and a factions booster. With the booster system in place they have a great excuse to single out factions and work on them now.

Taken from my factions forums thread post.

While I agree factions needs a "boost," I disagree that it should come in the form of a "booster" that you must pay extra to access. Players who don't pay for the booster would actually lose access to a significant in-game system and players who pay for the booster would presumably only be able to engage in faction combat with other players who also paid for the booster. I think having to pay extra for access to a "new and improved" faction system would go over like a lead balloon.

 

[Cear Dallben Dragon]

Do I care about factions, yes. Sadly I do.
Personally, I feel like since they came out with all those changes based on possibly no feedback at all from faction players. The fact they refuse to work on it now is a cop out. I kinda feel like they owe it to us now. Factions, focus groups, real feedback, and a factions booster. With the booster system in place they have a great excuse to single out factions and work on them now.

Taken from my factions forums thread post.

While I agree factions needs a "boost," I disagree that it should come in the form of a "booster" that you must pay extra to access. Players who don't pay for the booster would actually lose access to a significant in-game system and players who pay for the booster would presumably only be able to engage in faction combat with other players who also paid for the booster. I think having to pay extra for access to a "new and improved" faction system would go over like a lead balloon.

I agree with you completely. Factions is something that was originally worked on and placed in this game with our monthly fees at hand. They failed then miserably. Sadly however if you look at the way uo is being run at the moment, paying loads of money to EA might be the only way well get things done. Our monthly fees seem to be of no matter anymore. We should not have to pay for a faction update or fix. Not at all. I'm sure the hardest thing going through the heads of the suits over there is how to boost factions and pvp and make money. its going to be a hard one to figure out, it may not be possible. Theres no way they can force every pvper alone to pay for an update. and with existing pvp systems in place its not like they can retroactively go back and place a *you must have the factions booster to summon this harrower

hopefully they just take a "booster session" to work on them for free.

 

[Vyal]

I remember that post now. Total BS lie no doubt since it was a year ago.

 

[Nexus]

I remember that post now. Total BS lie no doubt since it was a year ago.

From what I heard, and I've got decent reliable sources, yea it was talked about and some planning happened, then they received a bunch of negative feedback. What you see on the forums here, isn't their only source of feedback. I've heard them mention several times, that they get tons of suggestions, complaints and feedback on proposals via E-mail..

Want to complain about a PvP Change not happening look at all your buddies first.

 

[claudia-fjp]

The old Hero/Evil system on Siege was pretty neat, I think it was the test server for it and it may have been headed for production shards. Sadly the players were better at math than the dev team of the time. They summoned infinite nightmares to have them drop their gold so the devs trashed the whole system instead.

 

[Petra Fyde]

? Is that a different system than is currently active on Siege?
Hero & Evil System (Siege Perilous)

 

[JC the Builder]

Want to complain about a PvP Change not happening look at all your buddies first.

So you are saying everyone should give positive feedback on bad changes which will drive away people even more?

If you get negative feedback you change your ideas, not give up and make house decorations.

 

[GalenKnighthawke]

From what I heard, and I've got decent reliable sources, yea it was talked about and some planning happened, then they received a bunch of negative feedback. What you see on the forums here, isn't their only source of feedback. I've heard them mention several times, that they get tons of suggestions, complaints and feedback on proposals via E-mail..

Want to complain about a PvP Change not happening look at all your buddies first.

By "decent and reliable sources" surely you must mean all the public posting that went on.

None of this was secret.

-Galen's player

 

[Tina Small]

So you are saying everyone should give positive feedback on bad changes which will drive away people even more?

If you get negative feedback you change your ideas, not give up and make house decorations.

Right. And you don't also then justify your decision to give up by claiming factions is somehow a jinxed system.

It's too bad the developers don't have the fortitude to put that test server back up again for a couple of months and let the feedback, good and bad, flow in. It would also help if they explained what they were thinking of in designing the strongholds and the points systems and tell us what they planned for collapsing/converting the current factions into the new ones. And also explain if Siege and Mugen will still have Hero/Evil aspects to factions.

 

[Tina Small]

More thoughts:

Maybe the developers would be able to work on upgrades or a replacement to the current faction system if they could figure out how to incorporate some "optional" things/abilities that you pay extra to access via an upgrade. The basic system would replace what we currently have and would be accessible by all, but some bells and whistles would only be available if you purchased a booster.

Perhaps we could help the devs out by coming up with a list of "bonus" items/abilities that could fit into a booster?

Some things I can think of off the top of my head to put into a faction booster package are:

• Dyes for faction colors or a faction dye tub that works on all types of materials. The dye tub would be the item that pops into your backpack when you enter the upgrade code, like the raised garden bed deed or chest of sending with the runic and gothic boosters just released.
• Craftables for stronghold defense, especially if the strongholds were changed to be as large and spacious as the ones we saw early last year. The craftables could be placed or demolished by the appropriate characters in the faction, without need of the booster, but could only be crafted by a faction crafter on an booster-upgraded account.
• New craftable faction clothing that doesn't have any magical properties but looks nice (i.e., SOME NEW STYLES OF CLOTHING!) Wearable by any in the appropriate faction but craftable only with the upgrade.
• New craftable faction-only weapons and armour. Wearable and craftable only with the upgrade. And couldn't be evil or hero-dyed on siege or mugen. Please.
• New types of mounts with the same stats and rez-by-bandage-without-vet-skill feature as war horses. Can only be purchased from the horse breeder if you have the upgrade.
• The ability to use the encampment system on a small number of tiles in each of the faction towns. The shops placed with this system would have totally different theme options than the ones in New Magincia, more appropriate to factions (i.e., not a vendor sitting in a chair next to a potted plant, a scene that looks like it came from someone's living room or den). Could only be used for selling or buying if you have the upgrade.

Edited to add: Okay, another crazy thought and then I'm off to the zoo with the grandkids: Buying the booster lets you choose from a variety of underclothing and tattoos. That way people who aren't interested in factions might still buy it.

 

[GalenKnighthawke]

I continue to argue, and have seen no persuasive evidence to the contrary, that the changes failed primarily because they were pitched at the wrong audience. Specifically thy were pitched at hard-core, direction confrontation PvPers, rather than at people who are or might be interested in Factions for Factions' sake. Further, though after over a year my mind's rather hazy on the specifics, I argue that they pitched badly to their intended audience.

Thus, the changes had to fail. They were pitched to the wrong audience and pitched badly.

-Galen's player

 

[Vyal]

I never heard a word about it after that post from the devs.

 

[GalenKnighthawke]

I never heard a word about it after that post from the devs.

Not sure what you mean by "that post."

The one announcing the changes?

Plenty of posts after that; try the Test Center forum and look for the multi-page sticky and also go back for the year.

Also Mesanna has, in messages and in videos and in-game said multiple times, something like "the Faction changes were not well-received and are shelved." Which is the rough equivalent of what's been said on the boards.

My favorite was Mark's post where, upset at the tone of the discussion, said something like "please talk to me like I was right there." While I didn't think he was wrong on the merits, indeed he was quite correct, I was a little surprised by how surprised he was. It was like he hadn't paid much mind to Stratics before.

-Galen's player

 

[Vyal]

Pretty sure the only message s not well received is anything from those guys.
I mean gargoyles play no role in factions @ all. I guessed that was the whole "the revamp factions thing" but the developers I swear are slow really slow. Programming UO is like putting a 10 piece puzzle together. If you compare it to anything 3d with physics.

 

[claudia-fjp]

? Is that a different system than is currently active on Siege?
Hero & Evil System (Siege Perilous)

Slightly different yes. The original system stood alone like Order/Chaos and was removed in late 2000. They changed a few things and mixed it together with factions a year later. I left Siege with AoS.

In the original system your name showed up something like:

claudia [FjP] (Evil)

I was red and my pets were the red murderer hue/nameplate with the (Evil) tag as well. I can't remember if it was all evils were red and all heroes blue but I think so. Now its just the factions on the names claudia [FjP][MNX] I guess with hero/evil as kind of a minor, mostly non visible, sub system.

 

[T'Challa]

It's been really odd to me to see the Order/Chaos system (which by the way was not Factions, but a separate system) remembered so well by so many, because at the time, at least on LS where I played, no one was really happy with it.

People accused each other of only joining for the Artifacts (back then they weren't called Artifacts, but I mean to refer to the Chaos Shields and Order Shields which were at the time only wearable by folks in Order/Chaos), and of avoiding PvP. I also read a lot about how there was no "real" reason to join Order/Chaos. (The shields weren't considered "real" by everyone.)

Sound familiar?

When Factions originally came out, within weeks the rap on Order/Chaos became that it was full of inferior PvPers, relative to Factions. When I pointed out that in Order/Chaos you couldn't escape the fighting, whereas in Factions you could tun to any map besides Felucca and not have to fight at all, I was called a noob, a Trammie, etc. I didn't get it, you see. I just didn't get it.

*shrugs*

When Order/Chaos was eliminated I don't remember a single post decrying said elimination.

I suppose there probably were some that I didn't notice. That happens from time to time.

-Galen's player

What LS were you on? Minoc, and the Joshua mine always had a ton of O/C activity. Lord Xorn Faddington, Lord Sethlans, Lord WaF, Lord Thor Ironside, Lord Obee K...all of them would take on any and all Order challengers any day of the week, and wreaked havoc on countless BcB bungleheads. Other guilds often participated, Red Dragon Clan, The Grey Council, The Guardians (wow I miss Ged and Tuck) and some crazy drunken ancient ******* named Warhand. The mass fighting oftentimes crowded into Vesper and back around to the entrance to Minoc.

So again, I ask, where were you? Playing in one of the "elite rp scenarios" that "Shadow's player" scripted for everyone? Sipping some elven wine at the Silver Arrow?

Oyea, Silk's Tavern was a big hotbed of O/C action as well.

Also, the 11 AR and innate spellchanneling properties of the shield were hugely beneficial as well.

/minorrant

 

[Lord Essex]

Bring back order and chaos

 

[Nexus]

So you are saying everyone should give positive feedback on bad changes which will drive away people even more?

If you get negative feedback you change your ideas, not give up and make house decorations.

Absolutely not, but I am saying there is no point of complaining about there not being changes when the reason is in your own back yard.

People scream and cry and kick their feet about wanting changes, but problem is either A) The Changes they want aren't practical or doable B) They don't have a clue as to what a good change would be.

We don't have access to the server code, we don't know what is and isn't possible within the limitations of the framework they have established. If something they propose is deemed worse than what they have now by the player base, fine but don't complain when when that area of the game get shoved on the back burner while other projects get completed.

Honestly I don't think the PvP community has a good reason to gripe about anything... They want to kick their feet and cry about everything from Trammel, to Enchanted Apples, but the nerfing they've received over the years is nothing compared to what Thieves were handed.

 

[Cear Dallben Dragon]

So you are saying everyone should give positive feedback on bad changes which will drive away people even more?

If you get negative feedback you change your ideas, not give up and make house decorations.

Absolutely not, but I am saying there is no point of complaining about there not being changes when the reason is in your own back yard.

People scream and cry and kick their feet about wanting changes, but problem is either A) The Changes they want aren't practical or doable B) They don't have a clue as to what a good change would be.

We don't have access to the server code, we don't know what is and isn't possible within the limitations of the framework they have established. If something they propose is deemed worse than what they have now by the player base, fine but don't complain when when that area of the game get shoved on the back burner while other projects get completed.

Honestly I don't think the PvP community has a good reason to gripe about anything... They want to kick their feet and cry about everything from Trammel, to Enchanted Apples, but the nerfing they've received over the years is nothing compared to what Thieves were handed.

The main reason people did not like the faction changes, is because they had nothing to do with player feedback in the first place. So all current faction players had a fine reason to reject it, and therefore have a fine reason to gripe. Not to mention, anyone who played the factions test center would no, none of the scoring systems were near being programed properly. So the devs had plenty of things on them to force an immediate discontinue. All i'm saying is giving it a "proper shot" is worth it.

 

[Cloak&Dagger]

The main reason people did not like the faction changes, is because they had nothing to do with player feedback in the first place. So all current faction players had a fine reason to reject it, and therefore have a fine reason to gripe. Not to mention, anyone who played the factions test center would no, none of the scoring systems were near being programed properly. So the devs had plenty of things on them to force an immediate discontinue. All i'm saying is giving it a "proper shot" is worth it.

Not to be completely negative, but if stratics is the place where the developers have to "listen" to players, nothing will ever come of any systems. People here complain about the color white not being white enough and then turn around and say its to white.

The try they gave, while not much of it seemed to add any real incentive to play factions (which is what I thought everyone wanted), was not so wasteful, if people would have, instead of just telling them more or less that they suck, gave better insight in how to improve what they were planning, and let them handle the bugs (the points not really working right for instance) then maybe they would have continued. The changes they gave could have worked for a starting point, it was not Production quality or ready, but a starting point none the less.

I am not advocating everyone just give good feedback, but some more productive feedback would be better. 1/4 productive feedback and 3/4 straight B****ing is not going to work.

 

[GalenKnighthawke]

What LS were you on? Minoc, and the Joshua mine always had a ton of O/C activity. Lord Xorn Faddington, Lord Sethlans, Lord WaF, Lord Thor Ironside, Lord Obee K...all of them would take on any and all Order challengers any day of the week, and wreaked havoc on countless BcB bungleheads. Other guilds often participated, Red Dragon Clan, The Grey Council, The Guardians (wow I miss Ged and Tuck) and some crazy drunken ancient ******* named Warhand. The mass fighting oftentimes crowded into Vesper and back around to the entrance to Minoc.

So again, I ask, where were you? Playing in one of the "elite rp scenarios" that "Shadow's player" scripted for everyone? Sipping some elven wine at the Silver Arrow?

Oyea, Silk's Tavern was a big hotbed of O/C action as well.

Also, the 11 AR and innate spellchanneling properties of the shield were hugely beneficial as well.

/minorrant

Everything comes down to the insult, I suppose.

*shrugs*

How.....tiresome.

-Galen's player

 

[Cear Dallben Dragon]

The main reason people did not like the faction changes, is because they had nothing to do with player feedback in the first place. So all current faction players had a fine reason to reject it, and therefore have a fine reason to gripe. Not to mention, anyone who played the factions test center would no, none of the scoring systems were near being programed properly. So the devs had plenty of things on them to force an immediate discontinue. All i'm saying is giving it a "proper shot" is worth it.

Not to be completely negative, but if stratics is the place where the developers have to "listen" to players, nothing will ever come of any systems. People here complain about the color white not being white enough and then turn around and say its to white.
[/QUOTE]


Correct, which is why Id prefer a focus group.
Side note, the color white in the EC is too white.

 

[T'Challa]

Everything comes down to the insult, I suppose.

*shrugs*

How.....tiresome.

-Galen's player

Not sure where exactly I insulted you. If you perceive an insult please point it out to me.

 

[GalenKnighthawke]

Not sure where exactly I insulted you. If you perceive an insult please point it out to me.

lol

Nice try but I don't believe you're so stupid that you don't know when you've insulted someone.

Where were you on LS? Hanging out with mono-syllabic, speed-hacking, house-hiders? Lord knows there were plenty of them.

That would be what you did; insult by trying to affiliate me with things you clearly see in a negative light.

As to where I heard that the conventional wisdom on LS was that Factions had better PvPers than Order/Chaos? Can't remember for the life of me; was years ago, was some random PvPer on UOLS.net.

I consider myself a bitter and resentful person, but even I don't recall the people I dislike with the same clarity you appear to.

-Galen's player

 

[T'Challa]

lol

Nice try but I don't believe you're so stupid that you don't know when you've insulted someone.

Where were you on LS? Hanging out with mono-syllabic, speed-hacking, house-hiders? Lord knows there were plenty of them.

That would be what you did; insult by trying to affiliate me with things you clearly see in a negative light.

As to where I heard that the conventional wisdom on LS was that Factions had better PvPers than Order/Chaos? Can't remember for the life of me; was years ago, was some random PvPer on UOLS.net.

I consider myself a bitter and resentful person, but even I don't recall the people I dislike with the same clarity you appear to.

-Galen's player

Lost a huge post to satellite hiccup.

So, short version: You're wrong. You've obviously injected some vitriolic inflection into my post that was never intended.

As for disliking you, or even remembering you...wrong again on both counts. I only know you by the persona you use on this board.

Stop letting your sensitivity get in the way of discussions. You do it all the time, and it's really the only reason I become so annoyed with you from time to time, seriously. It's not some old grudge as you seem to think.

/T

 

[GalenKnighthawke]

Lost a huge post to satellite hiccup.

So, short version: You're wrong. You've obviously injected some vitriolic inflection into my post that was never intended.

As for disliking you, or even remembering you...wrong again on both counts. I only know you by the persona you use on this board.

Stop letting your sensitivity get in the way of discussions. You do it all the time, and it's really the only reason I become so annoyed with you from time to time, seriously. It's not some old grudge as you seem to think.

/T

Umm...Yeah.

I thought it was pretty clear I was talking about others whom you were casting in a negative light. Not myself.

I, for one, have no idea who you are, and have no expectation that you, or anyone else, knows who I am.

As to my "sensitivity," the days when I'll just take insults like a good little Trammie to show what a good boy I am are long, long gone. When I don't respond it's just because I don't care that night.

I truly appreciate, though, that people aren't used to a Trammie who actually fights back, and have a difficult time digesting the concept.

-Galen's player

 

[T'Challa]

Umm...Yeah.

I thought it was pretty clear I was talking about others whom you were casting in a negative light. Not myself.

I, for one, have no idea who you are, and have no expectation that you, or anyone else, knows who I am.

As to my "sensitivity," the days when I'll just take insults like a good little Trammie to show what a good boy I am are long, long gone. When I don't respond it's just because I don't care that night.

I truly appreciate, though, that people aren't used to a Trammie who actually fights back, and have a difficult time digesting the concept.

-Galen's player

So you just gloss over what I said and continue your tirade on this supposed insult. You have yet to address the meat of my original post. I suppose you must be deflecting because you can't.

O/C battles were quite common, and just because they didn't happen in the places where you decided to play or within whatever community you called your own doesn't mean they didn't happen. If you truly believe that's the case, then you hold a very narcissistic point of view...

/obvious

 

[GalenKnighthawke]

So you just gloss over what I said and continue your tirade on this supposed insult. You have yet to address the meat of my original post. I suppose you must be deflecting because you can't.

O/C battles were quite common, and just because they didn't happen in the places where you decided to play or within whatever community you called your own doesn't mean they didn't happen. If you truly believe that's the case, then you hold a very narcissistic point of view...

/obvious

My exact quote was:

It's been really odd to me to see the Order/Chaos system (which by the way was not Factions, but a separate system) remembered so well by so many, because at the time, at least on LS where I played, no one was really happy with it.

People accused each other of only joining for the Artifacts (back then they weren't called Artifacts, but I mean to refer to the Chaos Shields and Order Shields which were at the time only wearable by folks in Order/Chaos), and of avoiding PvP. I also read a lot about how there was no "real" reason to join Order/Chaos. (The shields weren't considered "real" by everyone.)

Everything I said was accurate; and this would not preclude others having different experiences.

Further, nothing in there contradicts what you said here:

O/C battles were quite common, and just because they didn't happen in the places where you decided to play or within whatever community you called your own doesn't mean they didn't happen.

I witnessed many Order/Chaos battles.

It doesn't mean people were happy with the system.

And I remember no complaints, in-game or on message boards, when the system was abolished, until years and years later (basically, right up until now).

You have yet to address the meat of my original post.

The "meat" of your post was an insult. I addressed it quite adequately, by calling it what it is.

I excerpt your original post, which btw came months after the post of mine you were responding to:

So again, I ask, where were you? Playing in one of the "elite rp scenarios" that "Shadow's player" scripted for everyone? Sipping some elven wine at the Silver Arrow?

Clearly you mean to refer to those things in a negative context, and mean to associate me with them.

It doesn't matter whether I see them negatively or not; the point is that you do. Trying to go back on that now would just be rather pathetic.

Your post had no meat besides the insult because nothing you said and nothing I said directly contradicted one another.

-Galen's player

 

[kelmo]

Settle down in here... keep it on topic. I am not nearly as nice as some think.

 

[GalenKnighthawke]

Settle down in here... keep it on topic. I am not nearly as nice as some think.

Kelmo....Try and understand this.

When I don't respond to insults it's solely because I don't feel like caring that night.

The days when I'd take it just to prove how much bigger a person I was are long gone; on Stratics, that doesn't get you anyplace unless you count "constantly insulted" as a place.

I, for one, do not.

-Galen's player

 

[kelmo]

All I ask is keep the discussion civil.

 

[T'Challa]

How about on-topic?

 

[GalenKnighthawke]

How about on-topic?

You could have done so by simply saying "that was not my experience, I remember scores of complaints when Order/Chaos was disbanded."

You chose to, in essence, turn this into smack-talking. That was your choice.

-Galen's player

 

[Vyal]

You could have done so by simply saying "that was not my experience, I remember scores of complaints when Order/Chaos was disbanded."

You chose to, in essence, turn this into smack-talking. That was your choice.

-Galen's player

"that was not my experience, I remember scores of complaints when Order/Chaos was disbanded." - happy? & 2 this day people still want it back.

 

[GalenKnighthawke]

"that was not my experience, I remember scores of complaints when Order/Chaos was disbanded." - happy? & 2 this day people still want it back.

Where were those people on the boards then?

I can't even remember if the UO.com boards were still up at that point or if it was only Stratics.

But either way I recall not a single complaint.

I was very surprised, because while I had not noticed a great amount of participation, I'd noticed enough that I'd expected at least some complaints.

-Galen's player

 

[Cloak&Dagger]

"that was not my experience, I remember scores of complaints when Order/Chaos was disbanded." - happy? & 2 this day people still want it back.

Kinda agree with Galen in that I don't recall complaints, anywhere. Not saying that currently people don't want it back, not saying the system was not used a lot, or that it was good. Just that when they got rid of it I don't recall the excessive amount of complaints one would think would have happened.