Observations on the Pet Power Calculator

[startle]

Hi all,

Now that I've become an almost "full-time" tamer (thanks in no small part to all the great info and advice here on the Taming Forum), I'm having a lot of fun looking for those higher-end taming prospects. Having discovered the Pet Power Calculator (a really great piece of work), I am becoming aware of the serious difficulty that kitiara must have experienced in creating the PPC.

For instance, look at these two freshly tamed Cu Sidhe's:

Ok, the one above rates a 3.3 on the PPC...

Now look at this one:

This one rates 3.1...

So, as I'm checking stats on the PPC (while looking for possibles in the Wield) - I thought: Hmmm... This one rates a 3.1 but I like it better than the 3.3 I tamed yesturday, and here's why...

The "biggest" differences that I can see between the two is that the 3.3 pup has much better Poison resist (100% vs 66%) and he also has 99% vs 88% Intelligence.

Now, here's why I see the 3.1 as actually being more powerful (in many instances of fighting "stuff") than the 3.3:

Look at Dex and Physical/Fire and Cold. The 3.1 pup has more Dex (we all know how important Dex is), slightly higher resistance to Physical attacks (the most important resist IMO). And then there's Fire and Cold where he shines too...

Now, I know that resistance to anything is only relevent to WHAT the pup is fighting - but Dex is ever-present as important no matter what, as are HP's - and the 3.1 has seriously better Dex than the 3.3.

Now that brings us to what I "think" may be the reason for the lower rating that the 3.1 received - Intelligence ! And I have to ask: What good is Intelligence on a "non-caster" like a Cu Sidhe? And is the lower Int number the primary reason for the 3.1 vs 3.3 difference between these two pups?

Having fun and trying to make sense of it all...

 

[Farsight]

The first thing you need to know about cu sidhe is that starting dex doesn't matter. The dexterity will always train to 125, no matter what it starts out as.

The second thing to know is that by inputing starting skills/numbers, you tend to get squirrelly results, like a 3.7 where a 3.9 should be. In that sense, it's easiest to just put in 125 for the dex and 100 for wrestling, tactics, healing, anatomy and possibly meditation (It'll train over time, I believe... from the bleed attack).

The percentage values are misleading as well. Take your two pet's poison resists, for example. 50 is the max, that's well defined, but the minimum is 30. That means that your cu sidhe doesn't have only 66% of the max, but rather is 3 points from the minimum. That can be a huge hit to your pet's rating.

 

[Llewen]

The pet power calculator is a guide, and a sales tool. I have a spreadsheet formula that I use that I like a bit better, but it is still only a guide. I have often kept pets that rated lower than another I might have tamed, simply because I liked certain stats better.

And I agree with you, I like the second cu sidhe better (the 3.1). The most important resists are phys, fire, cold, and energy. Poison resist is less important simply because there aren't many spells that do poison damage. In pvp there are those that carry 100% poison weapons, simply because that tends to be the last resist most players care about, however, in pvp resists are less important on pets than stats are.

With a cu sidhe the strength range is very narrow, so there isn't much of a difference between a min and max str cu, and dex will always train up to 125. As for int, I have yet to see even a low int cu sidhe exhaust it's mana pool, so that really makes no difference.

Now when you come to a "prepatch" cu sidhe with stamina that is higher than dex (it can be 150+), then you are talking about some significant differences in pvp. Stamina determines movement speed, and "swing speed", so it is extremely important. However, to keep it's stamina as high as possible, you need to keep it healed - something that many pvp'rs fail to do.

 

[Jimmy Pop]

I've PM'd with Kitiara about the Pet Power Calc on several occasions. One thing that I've always wanted to see is accurate percentages.

577 is NOT 96% of 600. Well OK maybe it is, but my point is that it is not an accurate rating of 96% because 0 is not the minimum Hits that a Cu can have.

Cu's can have between 500 and 600 Hit Points. That means that 577 is actually 77% of maximum and not 96%. If you don't get that think about it this way...

500 = 0%
525 = 25%
550 = 50%
575 = 75%
600 = 100%

I agree it's a difficult formula to create to evaluate all pets. There are many factors that have to be considered. Personally, I don't care much about cold resist. There are very few cold based monsters that I would farm, and even fewer cold based spells. Now *if* I'm PvPing then cold resist suddenly becomes more of a factor (wither bombers).

I applaud Kitiara's efforts in providing this excellent tool. And even without the percentages accuracy, it still can be used as a tool to judge pets.

 

[Llewen]

Now *if* I'm PvPing then cold resist suddenly becomes more of a factor (wither bombers).

I applaud Kitiara's efforts in providing this excellent tool. And even without the percentages accuracy, it still can be used as a tool to judge pets.

You're a little behind the times. Hail storm is one of the biggest threats to pets these days in pvp. However, you are right, it is an excellent tool, and it does make it much easier to sell quality pets. As I've said elsewhere, it has revolutionized the taming profession in UO. The average pet in UO is much higher quality than it used to be, as a direct consequence of the calculator being such a popular tool.

 

[startle]

The first thing you need to know about cu sidhe is that starting dex doesn't matter. The dexterity will always train to 125, no matter what it starts out as.

Hi Farsight... You're absolutely correct of course, but my focus was more on how the calculations "weighted" different aspects of pet stats/skills.

The percentage values are misleading as well. Take your two pet's poison resists, for example. 50 is the max, that's well defined, but the minimum is 30. That means that your cu sidhe doesn't have only 66% of the max, but rather is 3 points from the minimum. That can be a huge hit to your pet's rating.

And indeed, you are correct again here - in that this pup has horrible Poison resist - but should this one low resist rating have as much "weight" as it seems to have? Especially considering Llewen's comment below:

Poison resist is less important simply because there aren't many spells that do poison damage.

Please don't get me wrong here, it is absolutely NOT my intent to in any way discredit the wonderful tool that Kitiara has provided us in her PPC. It's awesome in it's simplicity and ease of use. I'm just trying to understand it's strengths and weaknesses, and how to use it for MY own uses.

For instance, I don't PvP at all - but I understand that a lot of people do, so what is "good" in my pets may not be "good" or important for PvP tamers. I'm just learning how to use the PPC as to what is "best" for my style of play.

One last thing regarding the original post "comparison" of the two pups:
I went back and experimented with different values to see if I could pinpoint what caused my "3.1" pup to rank "lower" than my 3.3 - and came away with some very interesting observations.

First I changed the 3.1's Dex to 125 and left all the other numbers the same. Result: Still 3.1

Then I changed the 3.1's Stats (HP, Str, Dex, Int) to exactly match what the 3.3 had in these areas. Result: Still 3.1

Then, I left all the 3.1's original numbers in - except Poison. When I changed his Poison from 33 to 45 (still less than the 50 my 3.3 pup has), and he went from a 3.1 to a 3.6 !

And finally, when I changed his Dex from his freshly tamed value of 80 to the 125 he will eventually have, (and kept the poison at 45) he stayed at 3.6 !

So, what I am seeing, is that the difference between 3.1 and 3.6 on this pup - is almost entirely dependent on his Poison resist ! Which tells me how better to use the PPC for MY uses. I'll give much more weight to a potential tame's "resists". For my PvM playstyle, I'll look primarily to finding a pup with high Physical/Fire/Cold and Energy - since that will be mostly what he'll be fighting against.

Does that make any sense?

 

[Llewen]

It makes perfect sense. I would have to say that that ppc is more weighted toward a pvm style and in pvm the single most important thing is resists, especially those four, followed by hit points. But what you will learn is that you have to match your pets to the context. For example, Dread Horn does heavy poison damages, so it follows that if you want to fight him, your best pet would be a rune beetle with max poison resists. So even poison resist does have it's uses, depending on context.

The ppc is very useful for rating general purpose pets, the kind of pet you will bring with you when you don't know what you are going to be facing. It is less useful for rating specialist pets for specific situations.

 

[startle]

It makes perfect sense. I would have to say that that ppc is more weighted toward a pvm style and in pvm the single most important thing is resists, especially those four, followed by hit points. But what you will learn is that you have to match your pets to the context.

Yes, and the PPC is really helping me understand so much regarding my pet selection...Thx Llewen