What Brings New Players to Games?

[Spogfrawn]

This is a plea to the developers of UO.

Personally I think the answer is staring us all in the face. You're looking at it right now. Your PC monitor. People flock to games that look great just to try them. Its a simple fact of marketing. When something looks good people will want to try it and see...

I know plenty of people think its PvP or that it's to do with the monotony of gaining skill, or some tiny technical point that annoys an individual. I don't think PvP is that big of an issue to most people who currently do not play UO. The empty lands of Felucca speak for themselves. I honestly think that's why they keep shelving that in favour of other things. PvPers are loud and they enjoy these forums, but they are not in the majority of average MMO players.

If you want to get the attention of people who do not play UO, you are going to have to make some really nice graphics. Give us the HD UO we have always dreamed of. Make the avatars look like heroic adventurers. Do what you promised with KR and make our eyes pop out when we look at the amazing screenshots. Fix the many graphic bugs in the Enhanced Client. Give us hotbars that look cool. Make spell icons look magical. The monsters are not bad, but a higher res would make them soooo much better.

Some of the art you made for SA is really nice and the loading screens are great. But it's the gameplay that people see the most and what needs improving.

The macros in the Enhanced Client are AWESOME! Really, they make playing UO sooo much easier. But, I have given up on collecting animating stuff for my house. Why? Because I use the Enhanced Client and all animating house items will randomnly disappear when I leave and then enter my house (they are still there you just can't see them). That kind of thing needs to be fixed as a priority.

The freedom of the 700 points of skill is the best part of UO and in my opinion it is that simple freedom that has kept UO going all these years. There are so many ways to play UO and you can make your own style. UO is a great game! But the graphics were made when Doom was new and the Enhanced Client is Beta at best.

Upgrading the graphics and giving us the option of using it, is not going to stop the old timers playing. I am one of the old timers and I REALLY want new graphics. But it will make people look again at UO. People watch HD TV now and they expect HD Gaming. They wouldn't look twice at something that looks like UO right now. In my opinion the only way you are going to get new players to even try UO, is by wowing them with amazing graphics.

Please make us proud of the Enhanced Client!

 

[Dorinda]

Obviously, new players are not going to join Ultima Online. So, why not tweak UO around the dedicated player base for the past ten years?

 

[Amber Moon]

UO is not for everyone, that is a sure thing. But not for everyone is not the same as not for anyone. There will always be some that come for the first time or return after a long absence and stay.

It is the nature of these games to have a flow of players in and out in addition to those who stay long term. We must accommodate them all as best we can within the constrained resources available. Not to try is the worst coarse possible.

 

[Trebr Drab]

UO gets a lot of mention elsewhere, all the time. If UO were a fully 3D game, with art and animations that rivaled at least WoW (which isn't that great in art but a marvel in animation), I believe UO would be the second biggest game behind WoW (of these sorts of game, not including Facebook and all that). And the second biggest money maker.

I do think that a lot of gamers would play a 2.5D game. Many won't, but lots will if the game is worth it to them otherwise. There are millions that do now. So while a fully 3D would be better, a good quality 2.5D can still do very, very well. In my opinion, of course.

Between UO's fame, and all the talk that UO is how a MMORPG should be, if UO was more appealing in both art and in animations (no one else seems to want to talk about this, but it's a big factor in WoW's success, I think) even as a 2.5D game I think UO could be a huge success even today. There are very large numbers of gamers who are looking for "something different".

One of the big drawbacks for an existing game, past it's new stage, is that players don't want to be "newbies" in a game full of veteran players. The reason for that falls back to how games are made, making it highly undesirable to be a newb among vets. That's one of the big drawbacks of the level grind and over complications of MMORPGs these days. If games were simpler, less grindy, and easier for new players to join the crowd, this wouldn't be a problem. UO's item based game play that came with AoS hurts in that regard. But it's far from hopeless. And I think UO could be, if they wanted it to be, a major player still.

 

[popps]

Graphics, I really do not understand why often so much emphasys is put on graphics in a computer game.

I mean, I can understand that decent graphics is important, but what I do not understand is the need to invest so much resources on ultra sharp advanced graphics.

The way I see it, graphics is merely appearance. Usually, no matter how good something may look, after a while, I get used to appearance and it is not so much relevant later as it was initially.....

For example, let's say there is the look of a car I may like a whole lot. I get this car because I like its look. The car, though, runs poorly, breaks down often and has little options.

After a while I get used to the great look, and it therefore does not matter that much to me any longer, but I tend not to tolerate any more the "down sides" which at first, conquered by the great look, I downgraded as not important to me. I was conquered by the gorgeous look and did not look much at the rest. Driving the car though, and getting used to its looks with time, things change my overall attitude towards the vehicle.

Bottom line is, after a while, great look or not great look, I stop using that car as it causes me more trouble than enjoyment driving it.

On the other end, I see another car which is average look. Nothing ugly but neither gorgeous to see. But it's got lots of optionals, hardly breaks, great mileage, whatever.

The not do greatly looking car would last much longer in my driving because its content makes it great to drive for me as compared to the great looking car.

So, while I do agree that great graphics in a game might attract me, initially, it is the contents, the actual stuff that is "in" the game which will keep me playing it, not how it looks.

But that's of course just as I see it.

 

[Kaladin]

I've tried to recruit two guys to rejoin UO in the past few weeks. Keep in mind these are people who have played the game before--not totally new people to the game. I doubt I could convince a totally new player to join this game.

Both guys quit because of cheating as their main reason for leaving the game. They had some pretty strong statements to say about the cheating. And, it wasn't just about people cheating to gain a boost in skills like magery.

One guy responded to my request to come back to the game by summing it up with this "LOL."

The other guy came back to the game and we made a guild. It's been two weeks since I was told by some leader with GoL on Pacific that someone would contact me for a second interview. I finally just moved to Great Lakes and made a guild with this dude... even though it's just a 2 person guild.

 

[Amber Moon]

Both guys quit because of cheating as their main reason for leaving the game. They had some pretty strong statements to say about the cheating. And, it wasn't just about people cheating to gain a boost in skills like magery.

Can you place this in context please? We talking about PvP, PvM or what?

 

[Woodsman]

Obviously, new players are not going to join Ultima Online. So, why not tweak UO around the dedicated player base for the past ten years?

I'd rather talk about the next 10 years and how to keep UO viable.

That includes reversing the downhill slope that UO has been on since 2004, and that includes attracting new players who might not have even played any of the stand-alone Ultimas.

I don't want UO players to someday join the ranks of players who played The Sims Online, Tabula Rasa, Asheron's Call 2, Shadowbane, Earth & Beyond, Matrix Online, etc.

If UO gets a proper graphics update and gets actual support behind the EC, UO can still compete for new players, and more importantly, it can offer many new players things that are missing in other games. It just has to get those new players to stick their head in the door and look around, and that's not going to happen with graphics from 2001 or a resolution that's barely on par with a lot of cell phones.

 

[Woodsman]

what I do not understand is the need to invest so much resources on ultra sharp advanced graphics.

Because it's 2011, and not 2001 or 1997.

 

[Zosimus]

Graphics, I really do not understand why often so much emphasys is put on graphics in a computer game.

I mean, I can understand that decent graphics is important, but what I do not understand is the need to invest so much resources on ultra sharp advanced graphics.

The way I see it, graphics is merely appearance. Usually, no matter how good something may look, after a while, I get used to appearance and it is not so much relevant later as it was initially.....

For example, let's say there is the look of a car I may like a whole lot. I get this car because I like its look. The car, though, runs poorly, breaks down often and has little options.

After a while I get used to the great look, and it therefore does not matter that much to me any longer, but I tend not to tolerate any more the "down sides" which at first, conquered by the great look, I downgraded as not important to me. I was conquered by the gorgeous look and did not look much at the rest. Driving the car though, and getting used to its looks with time, things change my overall attitude towards the vehicle.

Bottom line is, after a while, great look or not great look, I stop using that car as it causes me more trouble than enjoyment driving it.

On the other end, I see another car which is average look. Nothing ugly but neither gorgeous to see. But it's got lots of optionals, hardly breaks, great mileage, whatever.

The not do greatly looking car would last much longer in my driving because its content makes it great to drive for me as compared to the great looking car.

So, while I do agree that great graphics in a game might attract me, initially, it is the contents, the actual stuff that is "in" the game which will keep me playing it, not how it looks.

But that's of course just as I see it.

Look at it this way Popps. In todays MMO's and online games there are graphics that blow UO away. When you have good to excellent graphics in games geared towards kids its hard for the current UO classic client to compete. These kids now will be the future gaming customers that these companies will want. Graphics just dont make a game but the eye candy will win over UO. So these new players you are always worried about, dont bother they will not flock to UO over the current graphics. UO needs a total revamp imo.

Like I said above graphics dont make a game but it does help. Game content, game information availabilty, investment back into the game and excellent customer service is what needed.

This statement quoted seperately...

I mean, I can understand that decent graphics is important, but what I do not understand is the need to invest so much resources on ultra sharp advanced graphics.

I am so glad that the TV industry doesnt listen to statements like these. We could be watching TV in black and white if they did. Same with technology. Cant hold onto the past when things get better and better. Same with games. Thats why I still say there should be a UO2. Richard sold out, and EA wont invest into it. So that leaves a no one unless EA wakes up.

 

[popps]

Like I said above graphics dont make a game but it does help. Game content, game information availabilty, investment back into the game and excellent customer service is what needed.

I understand that graphics hold some importance but still, since resources usually are finite, not endless, there needs to be a balance out between what to invest into better graphics and what into the actual content of the game.

While some would perhaps invest 90% onto better graphics and 10% of the available resources into actual game context, I'd probably tone down the amount of resources going to graphics and raise up the amount of resources going into content.

50/50 ? Not sure, but I know that I would not make the bettering of graphics eat most of the resources available.

But I do understand that the graphics' look might be a very good catcher for new players.

The thing is, though, that catching new players because of great graphics looks, who then leave the game after the first month or two, is not really much an asset to any game especially, since once the word spreads out that the great looking game (not talking here of UO, of course, just hypotheticaly of some other great looking game....) does not have much enjoyable content, then even the great graphics won't attract much new players...

So, in a finite resources world, I think it is important that they are well balanced between better graphics but ALSO better content and while I do agree that graphics attracts new players more easily, I do think that it is better content that KEEP those players playing the game for longer.

 

[Woodsman]

The thing is, though, that catching new players because of great graphics looks, who then leave the game after the first month or two, is not really much an asset to any game especially, since once the word spreads out that the great looking game (not talking here of UO, of course, just hypotheticaly of some other great looking game....) does not have much enjoyable context, then even the great graphics won't attract much new players...

You need to stop looking at it from the point of view of a UO player and look at it from the point of view of an MMO player that has never played UO.

Compared to many other MMOs that look much better, UO has much more content and depth, and arguably UO has more or nearly more than anybody else. The problem is that many players are not going to find out how much depth it has because the graphics are rooted in 1999.

Housing alone is something that nobody else has really approached in all these years, outside of Darkfall and the Everquest series devs. Add to that the fact that UO is not a rail MMO like so many others, and UO could hold its own against modern MMOs if it had high resolution graphics.

Many younger MMO players bounce around from game to game these days, and you see it when new MMOs launch and then take a sharp turn downward in subscriptions. Those people are flocking back to their "home" MMO, which is usually World of Warcraft. Those players are looking for something, and that something might be UO but they don't even realize it, and won't realize it until it's brought into the modern era.

 

[Tanivar]

Advertise the sandbox nature of the game and the freedom it gives you when you play. Your not locked into a set series of quests that have to be done in a set order.

Advertise that UO is not a Level-based game. It's Skill-based game. You can make friends in UO and always hunt with them. You won't ever get so far apart in level that you can't play together.

Advertise the 13 years of content UO has built up.

Advertise the ability to customize your skill selection as you want it. Your not locked into a certain skill set. There's no need to start the game over with a new character and repeat all the same quests all over again you had just done with the last character you had.

Advertise the Crafting System and the non-combat play it offers. Not thrilled by Beating up monsters as your sole play option? Come to UO and become a Crafter and Merchant, little fighting involved. This could draw people from the Sims, Farmville and such games.

 

[TheMac]

My response to the graphics.... I LOVE super mario brothers, but I would not pay 70 bucks for a copy like a new xbox game.. If you really want new players bad drop the monthly fee down a lot. But ask yourself this. When was the last time you told someone about UO. Some of the guys at work talk about WOW and other new games. I talked three of them into trying UO and they love it. Try some networking. Tell a friend he tells a friend.... If they are not going to put money into promoting and you want more players try recruiting them yourself.

 

[LiquidSolidity]

This is a plea to the developers of UO.

Personally I think the answer is staring us all in the face. You're looking at it right now. Your PC monitor. People flock to games that look great just to try them. Its a simple fact of marketing. When something looks good people will want to try it and see...

I know plenty of people think its PvP or that it's to do with the monotony of gaining skill, or some tiny technical point that annoys an individual. I don't think PvP is that big of an issue to most people who currently do not play UO. The empty lands of Felucca speak for themselves. I honestly think that's why they keep shelving that in favour of other things. PvPers are loud and they enjoy these forums, but they are not in the majority of average MMO players.

If you want to get the attention of people who do not play UO, you are going to have to make some really nice graphics. Give us the HD UO we have always dreamed of. Make the avatars look like heroic adventurers. Do what you promised with KR and make our eyes pop out when we look at the amazing screenshots. Fix the many graphic bugs in the Enhanced Client. Give us hotbars that look cool. Make spell icons look magical. The monsters are not bad, but a higher res would make them soooo much better.

Some of the art you made for SA is really nice and the loading screens are great. But it's the gameplay that people see the most and what needs improving.

The macros in the Enhanced Client are AWESOME! Really, they make playing UO sooo much easier. But, I have given up on collecting animating stuff for my house. Why? Because I use the Enhanced Client and all animating house items will randomnly disappear when I leave and then enter my house (they are still there you just can't see them). That kind of thing needs to be fixed as a priority.

The freedom of the 700 points of skill is the best part of UO and in my opinion it is that simple freedom that has kept UO going all these years. There are so many ways to play UO and you can make your own style. UO is a great game! But the graphics were made when Doom was new and the Enhanced Client is Beta at best.

Upgrading the graphics and giving us the option of using it, is not going to stop the old timers playing. I am one of the old timers and I REALLY want new graphics. But it will make people look again at UO. People watch HD TV now and they expect HD Gaming. They wouldn't look twice at something that looks like UO right now. In my opinion the only way you are going to get new players to even try UO, is by wowing them with amazing graphics.

Please make us proud of the Enhanced Client!

I second this. UO is such a deep, rich and amazing game. It seems so crazy that the graphics are so terrible. Please make the game look better.

 

[virtualhabitat]

The original poster believes that graphics is the primary hook that will grow a new set of UO players. Why shouldn't anyone believe this? Look at all of the online trade magazines and the top tier games always point to graphics. Gamespot reviews devote whole pages of review to graphics.

I just bought a new desktop from Best Buy a month ago. I got it for a small office in the house. It's nothing special -at all. When I was setting it up I remember smiling at the list of games that comes with Windows. You know, Minesweeper, Solitaire, Spider Solitaire, etc. I have spent countless hours playing those games and remarkably, I never tire of them. It is also remarkable how little the graphics on those games has changed. They don't need to change. Yet people have been playing them since Win95.

The OP is only partly correct. It is true that to attract new players EA/Mystic must do something. Graphics certainly appeal to certain markets. Other markets not so much.

Look at console games for example. I don't thing anyone would argue that both Playstation and Xbox out-perform Wii when it comes to graphics. Why then did Wii win the console wars? (Sold more consoles) Wii games didn't look nearly as cool as those on Xbox.
The answer is simple. Wii games were more fun for more people. What they looked like was important, but graphics were never allowed to trump fun.

I think UO should think of what market it would like to pursue, then make the the required changes based on what that market wants.

 

[Jirel of Joiry]

Well honestly until EAMythicBioware (is that the name this week?) decides to take out the perverbial trash we are not going to get new players and we'll keep losing Vet players. What do I mean by "trash"? Cheaters, scripters, hackers and greifers...ya know TRASH! In 10 years of playing UO I have lost count at the number of players I have seen quit over the "trash" in game. I have lost count at the players I have seen have accounts hacked then looted, house stolen or deleted and chars deleted.

If EA wants to compete against Blizzard and their baby World of Warcaft. Then they need to OVERHAUL their policys.

Let's start with hackers. Blizzard returns items and restores chars when a account is hacked. EA needs to do this as well. IMHO EA is very lazy. Its not that hard to prove a account was hacked, everytime you log into your account the server logs the ip address. Now the hacker's ip will not match yours. Yes if they live in same house as you it will be CLOSE but not identical.(BTW, if someone living with you hacked your account I suggest skip EA and go directly to "Throttle the living ****ake mushrooms outta them). If you both live on campus at a University again close but not identical. When someone notifies EA that their account has been hacked then they should freeze the account, check the ip logs, if the last log in doesn't match the last 30 logins then obviously its been hack. Okay Mesanna prove with the rubble stuff that THERE is a back up of each shard. Obviously the next step check the back up to see what was on that account and restore items, house and chars to that player.

Okay Cheaters and Scripters, here's a revolutionary idea, You know that empty jail in yew? The one Ricardo was in? Well lets put that thing to work.
people caught cheating or scripting should have the characters from the offending account all locked in one cell. There they would serve their sentence which could be anywhere from a week to 3 months. This sentence would be counted in rl hours and only while account is active. So closing and reopening the account would not get you out of a sentence. Also you could not delete the characters or rename them. Pretty much its a UO version of rl jail.

Griefers, a thorn in everyone's sides execpt those that play Seige, play in Felucca, or play Mugen. Okay for griefers I think using the suspend/ban method would be best but longer bans. 24 hrs, 72 hrs or permenant isn't really a lot of options. Okay lets expand suspensions/bans to go from 24hrs up to 3 months after 3 months suspension then perma ban them. Also since its harassment notify the griefer when permabanned a copy of his activites will be forwarded to his/her local law enforcement. If EA stands up, says hey we ain't play with ya, and we aren't gonna tolerate your crap. You would see griefer decline quickly. The only reason 99% of the griefers do what they do is because of the prevailing attitude that "its the internet I'm anonymous and they can't touch me so I'll do as I please. If these people thought for a millisecond what they do in the cyberworld would cause consequences in their real life, they'd think twice.

This of course would require real ACTUAL customer service on EA's part something else they've never done right.

I really, strongly, truly and totally believe if EA tackles these 4 issues and makes it known people would be reactivating accounts right and left. Also they'd bring their friends....ie NEW PLAYERS!!!

It'd be all win-Win-WIN!!!

You can have the most amazing kickass graphics in the known world but you're not gonna keep players more than a month tops if they have to play with asshats.

But I doubt more than 2 people will even bother to read this.

 

[virtualhabitat]

I think it would be most excellent to have public stocks in Britain. Players could pay a fee to use a whip on the offender.

Seriously, I haven't played long enough to see a hacker and I am not sure griefing is very punishable. It's too subjective.

Really, a couple of months ago my neighbor hit a possum in the street. It was roughly on the dividing line of our property, but in the street. So the carcass sits there for a few days until my neighbor gets tired of looking at it and he tossed it into the corner of my front yard. He griefed me. Did I call the police? No. I simply got a stick and flicked it over in his yard.

Then he flicked it back into the street where it has remained for the last two months. (not much left now, just a bit of bones and fur)

I do know that if I had called the police they would have been upset -at me. For not being able to take care of such a trivial issue. I imagine GM's feel this way sometimes as well.

 

[Nexus]

Graphics, I really do not understand why often so much emphasys is put on graphics in a computer game.

Because first impressions are the most important.

Set a Pinto

beside a Gremlin and there's not a huge difference in appearance. Same basic look...

Now set that Pinto

Next to a Ferrari

Which would you pick?

Same thing matters in Games, back when UO was released graphically it wasn't inferior to many things, and was graphically superior to many products.... Just like judging a Pinto and a Gremlin simply by looks, there's not much difference on first glance.

Now?

You are asking people to hop in the Pinto instead of the Ferrari. That's what UO is doing by hanging onto the Classic Client and not investing in making the Enhanced Client into a Superior Client, not just mechanically but visually.

There is no long term sustainability in catering only to the current player base, the thing the current player base can guarantee is atrophy over time. There has to be a drive towards making UO attractive to new players as well.

 

[Jirel of Joiry]

I think it would be most excellent to have public stocks in Britain. Players could pay a fee to use a whip on the offender.

Seriously, I haven't played long enough to see a hacker and I am not sure griefing is very punishable. It's too subjective.

Really, a couple of months ago my neighbor hit a possum in the street. It was roughly on the dividing line of our property, but in the street. So the carcass sits there for a few days until my neighbor gets tired of looking at it and he tossed it into the corner of my front yard. He griefed me. Did I call the police? No. I simply got a stick and flicked it over in his yard.

Then he flicked it back into the street where it has remained for the last two months. (not much left now, just a bit of bones and fur)

I do know that if I had called the police they would have been upset -at me. For not being able to take care of such a trivial issue. I imagine GM's feel this way sometimes as well.

Okay the difference is that you COULD do something....IE: Flick the carcass back into his yard.

UO game mechanics are set up in such away if you are griefed in Tram-Ish-Malas-TerMur if you retaliate you can get your account banned. Please understand grief= harassment as defined by EA's ROC/TOS.

Let me illustrate: You are hunting dragons in Tram Destard, CaptAsshat kill steals the dragon you were killing. You move on to another dragon and CaptAsshat does it again. So you move on to yet another dragon and once again here comes CaptAsshat. Okay can leave the dungeon and hunt something else. However you got some major mad on and would like to retaliate. Okay you can kill-steal on him however if he pages harassment, you'll be banned. You could lured 2 or 3 greater dragons on him but luring in tram is bannable offense. So ALL you can do is page harassment and leave.

The problem I have with "the victim must leave the area" is that you are giving CaptAsshat exactly what he wants to have the dungeon all to himself.

There are other forms of Grief/harassment that cause the same impasse.

Please note: CaptAsshat is NOT a real UO player its a summation of all griefers I have encountered in 10 years of UO.

 

[Jirel of Joiry]

QFT - however Nexus I'd choose a Mustang Cobra GT with a Shelby engine. Sorry, Ferraris are pretty but too tempermental for my taste. Not that I could ever afford either, but a girl can dream.

Because first impressions are the most important.

Set a Pinto

beside a Gremlin and there's not a huge difference in appearance. Same basic look...

Now set that Pinto

Next to a Ferrari

Which would you pick?

Same thing matters in Games, back when UO was released graphically it wasn't inferior to many things, and was graphically superior to many products.... Just like judging a Pinto and a Gremlin simply by looks, there's not much difference on first glance.

Now?

You are asking people to hop in the Pinto instead of the Ferrari. That's what UO is doing by hanging onto the Classic Client and not investing in making the Enhanced Client into a Superior Client, not just mechanically but visually.

There is no long term sustainability in catering only to the current player base, the thing the current player base can guarantee is atrophy over time. There has to be a drive towards making UO attractive to new players as well.

 

[virtualhabitat]

Because first impressions are the most important.

Set a Pinto

beside a Gremlin and there's not a huge difference in appearance. Same basic look...

Now set that Pinto

Next to a Ferrari

Which would you pick?

Same thing matters in Games, back when UO was released graphically it wasn't inferior to many things, and was graphically superior to many products.... Just like judging a Pinto and a Gremlin simply by looks, there's not much difference on first glance.

Now?

You are asking people to hop in the Pinto instead of the Ferrari. That's what UO is doing by hanging onto the Classic Client and not investing in making the Enhanced Client into a Superior Client, not just mechanically but visually.

There is no long term sustainability in catering only to the current player base, the thing the current player base can guarantee is atrophy over time. There has to be a drive towards making UO attractive to new players as well.

I used to know a guy that bought a Ferrari. It was very nice -and fast. It was also expensive to maintain. Mostly he would just drive it to work and them home again. I think he liked being known as the guy with the Ferrari.
I also used to have a 1977 Pinto. It really wasn't a good or bad car, but I don't think I would want a Ferrari to replace it. It only does one thing, go fast.

Me, I do stuff, I'd rather have a Chevrolet truck.

 

[Tanivar]

There is no long term sustainability in catering only to the current player base, the thing the current player base can guarantee is atrophy over time. There has to be a drive towards making UO attractive to new players as well.

Thing is, if they dump the CC as the EC crowd keeps insisting they do, there will certainly be 'no long term sustainability'. The bulk of the playerbase would leave, making UO unprofitable. It would all come to an end in the short term.

The current player base needs to be added to, not encouraged to leave the game because the only remaining User Interface is not good. The EC minority needs to let the simple fact sink in, The EC is not the popular User Interface. The CC is.

Sheesh...

 

[JC the Builder]

While graphics are an important part of bringing new players into a game, I think word of mouth is the #1 method of people trying a game. I got into UO because someone told me about it.

With veterans unhappy about the state of UO, no one is recommending or talking about UO in a good way.

 

[Nexus]

While graphics are an important part of bringing new players into a game, I think word of mouth is the #1 method of people trying a game. I got into UO because someone told me about it.

With veterans unhappy about the state of UO, no one is recommending or talking about UO in a good way.

I've tried seriously I have, it works until they go to Google and pull up some screen shots.

And obviously word of mouth isn't working, if it was UO would have leaped ahead in Subs once boxes stopped showing on shelves.

Maybe if we had a product to talk about that didn't look like it was as old as it is then word of mouth could work.....

 

[Jirel of Joiry]

While graphics are an important part of bringing new players into a game, I think word of mouth is the #1 method of people trying a game. I got into UO because someone told me about it.

With veterans unhappy about the state of UO, no one is recommending or talking about UO in a good way.

Amen Brother!!!! I think if the veteran players get anymore angry the remaining ones are gonna break out the ptichforks and torches and march on EA Virginia. LOL The UO peasants are revolting!

 

[Nexus]

Thing is, if they dump the CC as the EC crowd keeps insisting they do, there will certainly be 'no long term sustainability'. The bulk of the playerbase would leave, making UO unprofitable. It would all come to an end in the short term.

The current player base needs to be added to, not encouraged to leave the game because the only remaining User Interface is not good. The EC minority needs to let the simple fact sink in, The EC is not the popular User Interface. The CC is.

Sheesh...

I completely understand that, that's why on more than one occasion I've suggested they integrate CC graphics as a "Legacy Graphics" Option into the EC. People would get familiarity without the need to completely support 2 clients, Making Grim work twice as hard as everyone sure but supporting two clients? Nah.

Honestly as far as potential, and stock usability the EC is far superior to the CC. Once they get the stability issues some people have worked out, then honestly the CC will have no leg to stand on other than nostalgia. Nostalgia isn't enough.

 

[canary]

Because it's 2011, and not 2001 or 1997.

Yup, this... and even what people would consider standard 2007-era graphics are better than the CC or KR art (and yes, I'm aware that KR's art was around that time, but it still looked subpar to anything else on the market).

I doubt many are crying for top tier, high end graphics... just DECENT graphics.

 

[virtualhabitat]

I downloaded CC when I started playing in January. The reason? Simply that the word beta wasn't next to it. I assumed that the CC was the standard and that beta would be buggy. I downloaded EC a few days later and found it works fine too.
Which do I prefer? CC. EC client looks fuzzy and things seem out of proportion. CC appears sharp and crisp. I also sense better performance from CC, but I am not a computer expert so I can only say I sense it.

I will agree to a point that quality graphics would improve UO's attractiveness, but I firmly believe that the fun factor trumps pretty pictures any day.

If graphics is the key to more sales, explain why Wii has won/is winning the console wars (In terms of sales) against Xbox and Playstation. Hint: it ain't the graphics.

 

[Nexus]

I downloaded CC when I started playing in January. The reason? Simply that the word beta wasn't next to it. I assumed that the CC was the standard and that beta would be buggy. I downloaded EC a few days later and found it works fine too.
Which do I prefer? CC. EC client looks fuzzy and things seem out of proportion. CC appears sharp and crisp. I also sense better performance from CC, but I am not a computer expert so I can only say I sense it.

I will agree to a point that quality graphics would improve UO's attractiveness, but I firmly believe that the fun factor trumps pretty pictures any day.

If graphics is the key to more sales, explain why Wii has won/is winning the console wars (In terms of sales) against Xbox and Playstation. Hint: it ain't the graphics.

Nintendo doesn't sue you every time you soft mod you Wii.

 

[Spiritless]

UO's graphics will not be competitive with any half-recent game. Ever. Period. It's high time people started accepting this. They're locked in to the isometric "2.5d" perspective and upgrading this into a proper 3D environment where they have the capability of making the game look good would be a monumental effort. So much so, in fact, that you may as well scrap the whole game and start writing it from scratch. Therein lies what UO needs.

In order to "keep UO viable" they need to create a sequel with a fresh code base and a fully 3D world. The EC isn't the saviour of this game; even its graphics would not be considered up to standard these days. They're nowhere even close to the standard. Heck, since Jagex upgraded the graphics in RuneScape it looks better than UO and I remind you that it's a browser-based game. If they made the EC with the intention of attracting new players, they inevitably failed. They'd have done better to spend the cash invested in it on a sequel and a fresh start.

Right now, EA are essentially asking players to pay a subscription cost similar to WoW's for a game that looks much worse, has an interface which is worse, PvM that's still tuned for people on dial-up and a PvP environment that's lost all meaning and purpose. Do you think this sounds like an appealing deal for the potential new player? Neither do they, evidently.

Take care.

 

[Woodsman]

In order to "keep UO viable" they need to create a sequel with a fresh code base and a fully 3D world. The EC isn't the saviour of this game; even its graphics would not be considered up to standard these days.

You do realize the EC engine is the same game engine behind Oblivion, Fallout 3, and Rift, right?

It's also the same engine behind Camelot and Warhammer Online.

 

[Tanivar]

Honestly as far as potential, and stock usability the EC is far superior to the CC. Once they get the stability issues some people have worked out, then honestly the CC will have no leg to stand on other than nostalgia. Nostalgia isn't enough.

Actually the EC is not superior, it has added features but the look & feel of it are bad. Using the EC is not a good experience. If the EC had been the only User Interface when I came to UO, I would have left after the first couple of weeks. All of UO's awesome content means nothing if the way of accessing that content isn't a good experience, and the EC certainly isn't a good experience. I've wavered a few times, particularly after installing Pinco's UI, then used the EC again, and got reminded why I talk of it as I normally do. Even with Pinco's excellent UI making vast improvements, it's a poor User Interface, as it's failure to attract even half of the players shows.

Nostalgia isn't keeping most of us using the CC, it's the experience of using the EC thats doing it.

A game has to have good game content and a good User Interface to be popular. Make a poor user interface for a game and it will fail.

I'd much rather UO survives, which means the CC has to stay, or something much nicer to work with has to replace the EC.

 

[Spiritless]

You do realize the EC engine is the same game engine behind Oblivion, Fallout 3, and Rift, right?

It's also the same engine behind Camelot and Warhammer Online.

I am aware it uses GameBryo. What's your point exactly? UO is still firmly a 2.5D game and, as I said, would require huge amounts of work to take advantage of GameBryo's 3D capabilities, including reworking the entire art set and remodelling the worlds from scratch. UO was created firmly as a 2D game and, as I said, making it work in a fully 3D environment would be an absolutely huge undertaking. Are you disputing this?

There's no magic switch that you can flick and suddenly everything is 3D and pretty, even if the renderer is fully capable of displaying such.

 

[Sevin0oo0]

If the point of this thread is all about UO graphics, wasn't Only 2 days ago that Cal said they were assessing graphics, and doing terrain first, then move on to others?? So since they are already on this, am I missing something here?

 

[Jirel of Joiry]

But guys shiny, new graphics are only HALF the battle. You want to get them in the door with the graphics for sure but you want KEEP THEM with good customer service and quailty play. You can't even call EA's customer service for UO subpar! Let's face it, its a steaming pile of dog poo on a sidewalk in Texas in the middle of JULY!

The GMs don't even know what damned game they are answering questions for; since players have reported getting messages with Thanks for playing Warhammer Online, Thanks for playing Dark Age of Camelot, and my personal favorite Thanks for playing POGO.
Oh, yeah that reflects reeeal great Customer service.....NOT!

Till EA get its head out of its perverbial ascii code and takes out the trash and cleans up CS. People will try UO and people will leave UO. As it stands now people are just leaving UO. Meanwhile the Dev Team, The EA suits all with their heads firmly stuff up their ascii codes think throwing pixelcrack at us will keep players. Guess what ....IT WON'T!

Its time for EA realize what Abraham Lincoln said is true:

"You can please most of the people some of the time. Some of the people most of the time. but none of the people all of the time. - Abraham Lincoln

With that in mind...TAKE OUT THE DOGGONE TRASH! `Nuff said!

*gets off soapbox, picks it up and carries it off with her*

Well it is MY soapbox lol

 

[Jirel of Joiry]

I downloaded CC when I started playing in January. The reason? Simply that the word beta wasn't next to it. I assumed that the CC was the standard and that beta would be buggy. I downloaded EC a few days later and found it works fine too.
Which do I prefer? CC. EC client looks fuzzy and things seem out of proportion. CC appears sharp and crisp. I also sense better performance from CC, but I am not a computer expert so I can only say I sense it.

I will agree to a point that quality graphics would improve UO's attractiveness, but I firmly believe that the fun factor trumps pretty pictures any day.

If graphics is the key to more sales, explain why Wii has won/is winning the console wars (In terms of sales) against Xbox and Playstation. Hint: it ain't the graphics.

Nintendo doesn't sue you every time you soft mod you Wii.

Huh? Whaa? Who sued someone for a soft mod? Really? I want details! I didn't know stupidity and idiocy ran so deep! Daaang!

 

[Woodsman]

Even with Pinco's excellent UI making vast improvements, it's a poor User Interface, as it's failure to attract even half of the players shows.

The interface can be changed to whatever you want it to look like and it has improved a great deal even since I've come back, but the problem is the lack of development resources to make the client stable and keep it stable. That's the biggest problem the EC faces. It's reputation is somewhat well-earned.

This haphazard manner of only applying bug fixes when there is room in the schedule for bug fixes has not worked out, and I also have to question how much Q&A they are putting in. When a patch comes out and all of the sudden I'm experiencing no more crashes or one in a blue moon, and then another patch comes out and it's back to crashing a few times a day, then there is a huge problem with development and testing.

I am aware it uses GameBryo. What's your point exactly? UO is still firmly a 2.5D game and, as I said, would require huge amounts of work to take advantage of GameBryo's 3D capabilities, including reworking the entire art set and remodelling the worlds from scratch. UO was created firmly as a 2D game and, as I said, making it work in a fully 3D environment would be an absolutely huge undertaking. Are you disputing this?

My point is they don't need a fresh codebase like you stated. If anything, that would set UO back a ways as the devs and artists would have to train up on it which would take time, and that would increase the amount of time for some EA executive to muck with UO.

A fresh codebase does not fix how EA views UO. They are treating UO differently, and that's a nice change from "welp Warhammer and some other games had problems, guess we should axe a ton of people in Mythic, including people who are working on a profitable game."

EA has had several major projects finish recently, including Dragon Age 2 and Sims Medieval, and it would have been nice to see an influx of artists into UO, but that's probably not happening.

It comes down to just how much EA will support UO. If the graphics update and EC improvements pays off in time for the 15th anniversary, EA may even decide to eventually really retool UO and do away with the two-client system.

 

[Woodsman]

If the point of this thread is all about UO graphics, wasn't Only 2 days ago that Cal said they were assessing graphics, and doing terrain first, then move on to others?? So since they are already on this, am I missing something here?

They are already on this. There's actually been improved artwork in the game - more complex and sharper-looking monsters even.

 

[FishinFool]

But guys shiny, new graphics are only HALF the battle. You want to get them in the door with the graphics for sure but you want KEEP THEM with good customer service and quailty play. You can't even call EA's customer service for UO subpar! Let's face it, its a steaming pile of dog poo on a sidewalk in Texas in the middle of JULY!

UO needs to work along the lines of most bang for the buck. To this end, updating and modernizing the graphics are paramount.

Primarily, all of the 2d art needs to be updated to a higher resolution. This art is used in both clients - again, most bang for the buck. The 2d client display ratio needs to be made a hard, easy to reset default in the EC.

Increasing the 2d window size to allow 1024 and larger. Unless this was a total hackjob when they added the game window, most of the work is already done and they simply need to add in the option to enlarge the game window. Initially the rationale given was unfair advantage due to seeing a larger playing field - however this is a moot point today.

Both clients have issues with their load radius that need to be addressed, it is more evident with the EC due to the larger play window. Although this is probably an issue server side, it does need a look-see.

Please note that modernizing the graphics does not mean they need to develop a state of the art new client. This will never happen as it's clear Mythic is incapable of doing this with any of their other games let alone devote more resources to this cause.

The overall performance of the EC is awful. It is not very responsive, a number of core features are tempermental - if they work at all. I could make a list but I lack the time.

You can have a slick, modern looking game without all the bells and whistles. Wow is old at this point, but their UI is highly refined, the graphics are dated but work within the game as a whole.

You need to start to finish, and all there has been for years and years is delays and tangents.

 

[Capn Kranky]

... <snip> ... Many younger MMO players bounce around from game to game these days, and you see it when new MMOs launch and then take a sharp turn downward in subscriptions. Those people are flocking back to their "home" MMO, which is usually World of Warcraft. Those players are looking for something, and that something might be UO but they don't even realize it, and won't realize it until it's brought into the modern era.

And why do they bounce around? Because *something* in those games does NOT hold their attention, perhaps? Or is it because these games have a top level that they easily acquire and then it's "Wow! I won the game!" time? Funny thing, most of those games have these glitzy, absolutely awesome graphics ... and yet cannot and do not really hold the attention of these players.

Now, that stated ... UO needs a graphics facelift AND (I am so gonna be in trouble for this) total abandonment of the CC for a client that is as easy to manipulate and get into but yet has functional growth abilities like the EC. I have used both ... the EC to me is functionally superior yet I have to spend much time tweaking this or that because the graphics or some other facet just does not work quite right. Movement of things is not as crisp as I would like it (as one example) ... I still have characters moonwalking, no matter what I do.

 

[Tanivar]

... AND (I am so gonna be in trouble for this) total abandonment of the CC for a client that is as easy to manipulate and get into but yet has functional growth abilities like the EC.

EA totally abandons the CC and well over half the playerbase is likely to abandon UO because it would then lack a good, nice to use, User Interface.

I think that might quickly have EA's beancounters pulling the plug on the game. The EC fanclub isn't likely to be paying enough in monthly fees to keep UO profitable all by themselves.

Think of the consenquenses of your ideas before posting them.

 

[Fat Midnight]

Not only does UO need to advertise we need deceptive advertising.

Popups and banners showing young, attractive women playing uo, an ad that knows your city/area code and shows a large number of "people playing in your area"


We need people to spread the word in other MMOs

 

[Capn Kranky]

Then the only option is to do massive (and perhaps more costly) upgrades to the CC and abandon EC. Managing 2 clients and updates to same adds additional work that should not have to be done. What will cost less ... finalizing EC (out of beta) or overhauling CC?

Until KR we had one client that all used ... can we not return to that easy maintenance mode? That should allow for more Dev time on art, game enhancements, boosters ... and not having to dual-process much of the implementations. I work in an IT area where we sometimes need to maintain different versions of apps for a period of time while the Fleet gets its act together for standardization. It's really not nice doing double the work.

At one time I would also have left if the CC were abandoned. I feel differently now after actually working with EC more than I had at that time.

 

[FishinFool]

Actually, the 3d client had been around for quite a while - long before KR. 3rd dawn was the first attempt and I believe the first production 3d client was shipped with LBR.

Two clients is not a major issue, especially considering 2d only requires a couple minor tweaks.

In my opinion, the EC does not even deserve a Beta tag.

 

[Tanivar]

EA could just convert the EC to have the same look & feel as the CC and have the easy to modify code they have spoken of and a bunch of still happy players. Make the hotbars and other fave EC features switchable options.

If EA hires some new graphics people to make clean good looking new graphics, it likely would be pretty popular as well.

 

[nynyve]

Fun. Bottom line, if it's not fun, no one will play.

 

[Tanivar]

Fun. Bottom line, if it's not fun, no one will play.

Amen to that.

 

[Trebr Drab]

EA could just convert the EC to have the same look & feel as the CC and have the easy to modify code they have spoken of and a bunch of still happy players. Make the hotbars and other fave EC features switchable options.

If EA hires some new graphics people to make clean good looking new graphics, it likely would be pretty popular as well.

I think that would be very good. But I think they already have some of the graphics they need. Some of the KR/EC MOBs looked very good and only need converted to the CC with snapshots. Some of the EC terrain only needs some fine tuning and crispness added.
The main work would be on the player avatars, in my opinion. As shown by some, this stuff looks pretty good.

That still leaves a lot of work, but UO could look very good.

 

[Luvmylace]

Well honestly until EAMythicBioware (is that the name this week?) decides to take out the perverbial trash we are not going to get new players and we'll keep losing Vet players. What do I mean by "trash"? Cheaters, scripters, hackers and greifers...ya know TRASH! In 10 years of playing UO I have lost count at the number of players I have seen quit over the "trash" in game. I have lost count at the players I have seen have accounts hacked then looted, house stolen or deleted and chars deleted.

If EA wants to compete against Blizzard and their baby World of Warcaft. Then they need to OVERHAUL their policys.

Let's start with hackers. Blizzard returns items and restores chars when a account is hacked. EA needs to do this as well. IMHO EA is very lazy. Its not that hard to prove a account was hacked, everytime you log into your account the server logs the ip address. Now the hacker's ip will not match yours. Yes if they live in same house as you it will be CLOSE but not identical.(BTW, if someone living with you hacked your account I suggest skip EA and go directly to "Throttle the living ****ake mushrooms outta them). If you both live on campus at a University again close but not identical. When someone notifies EA that their account has been hacked then they should freeze the account, check the ip logs, if the last log in doesn't match the last 30 logins then obviously its been hack. Okay Mesanna prove with the rubble stuff that THERE is a back up of each shard. Obviously the next step check the back up to see what was on that account and restore items, house and chars to that player.

Okay Cheaters and Scripters, here's a revolutionary idea, You know that empty jail in yew? The one Ricardo was in? Well lets put that thing to work.
people caught cheating or scripting should have the characters from the offending account all locked in one cell. There they would serve their sentence which could be anywhere from a week to 3 months. This sentence would be counted in rl hours and only while account is active. So closing and reopening the account would not get you out of a sentence. Also you could not delete the characters or rename them. Pretty much its a UO version of rl jail.

Griefers, a thorn in everyone's sides execpt those that play Seige, play in Felucca, or play Mugen. Okay for griefers I think using the suspend/ban method would be best but longer bans. 24 hrs, 72 hrs or permenant isn't really a lot of options. Okay lets expand suspensions/bans to go from 24hrs up to 3 months after 3 months suspension then perma ban them. Also since its harassment notify the griefer when permabanned a copy of his activites will be forwarded to his/her local law enforcement. If EA stands up, says hey we ain't play with ya, and we aren't gonna tolerate your crap. You would see griefer decline quickly. The only reason 99% of the griefers do what they do is because of the prevailing attitude that "its the internet I'm anonymous and they can't touch me so I'll do as I please. If these people thought for a millisecond what they do in the cyberworld would cause consequences in their real life, they'd think twice.

This of course would require real ACTUAL customer service on EA's part something else they've never done right.

I really, strongly, truly and totally believe if EA tackles these 4 issues and makes it known people would be reactivating accounts right and left. Also they'd bring their friends....ie NEW PLAYERS!!!

It'd be all win-Win-WIN!!!

You can have the most amazing kickass graphics in the known world but you're not gonna keep players more than a month tops if they have to play with asshats.

But I doubt more than 2 people will even bother to read this.

yup yup What she said !