It appears that the GM's are no longer banning cheaters that are paged on...

[popps]

Another factor is that you can't keep 10-20 EC client opened at the same time so the farming will be halved

I did not know that.

So when playing the Enhanced Client it is not possible with 1 computer, no matter what OS one is using, to run 2 separate instances of the Enhanced Client ?

If a player has 2 accounts, for example, it will be necessary to have 2 computers to have both accounts (and Enhanced Clients...) running ?

 

[Zosimus]

Ok fine, so "if" cheating cannot technically be stopped, and perhaps it is not financially advisable for the risk of loosing too many subscriptions, then why on earth continue to maintain a policy that wants scripting and hacking as forbidden activities in Ultima Online ??

I mean, if they are forbidden, then stop them, if they cannot (technical limitation) or are not wanted (economical limitation) to be stopped, then what is even the point of having them as not allowed ??

It just puts players on an uneven footing which is the worst thing for the game because it creates unhappy players and so, customers.

I say either stop them or, if this ain't possible, whatever the reasons, change the policy and allow them for all players to use.

If everybody was allowed to cheat even though they can if they wanted then there be a big old mess. Just think of the game economy in terms of resources. Nobody would need to buy any when you could script them all day. Farm gold at Trog cave with auto healing and auto looting. Just send gold to bank through mutiple bags of sending. On and on I can go about scenarios. So you can live with yourself and cheat or dont cheat. Its up to the players and how they want to play. Fair or cheat. These threads come and go and its always the same thing. Nothing is done and the cheating continues.

Spreadsheet anyone?

 

[aarons6]

want to fix the scripters.. every resource in the game that needs to be scripted to get in bulk needs to be for sale by a npc..

want to buy heartwood boards.. go to luna and pick some up at the carpenter.. at a set amount..

yes you can get it yourself for free or buy from npc for a premium price. take out the scripters market.

 

[Zosimus]

Voyage Century Online has an afk feature in their game.

It allows you to work whatever skill you are working on. You can hunt in areas and hit the afk and decide if you want to loot or not. Same with mining and lumberjacking. The difference is you cant recall back to the city. Once your char is full or tool/weapon is worn out you cant gather any more resources. You are so heavy you can only walk not run.

Plus its all based on your stamina. If you run out of stamina then you cant gather anymore resources. They dont have regen gaining on armor like they do UO. They do have + stat armor. You have to use potions to get back stamina, hitpoints and mana. You can also sit in the game to regen faster then just standing there.

Since UO does not have any of those features plus you can recall in and out never lose mana or stamina with items. Now if they changed the weight of ore to be random stones then a constant stone then it may help a bit. The scripts do have a weight limit determined by the player but if the ore at random stone that was high number would put it past their weight then an afk scripter would be stuck.

Yeah there is a work around even that fix but they would gather less at a random weight then a constant weight of ore and lumber.

 

[olduofan]

I most not have logged in the day GMs where banning cheaters was this a one time event on April 1st last year ?

 

[puni666]

1 Bots for a player = Profit for player and EA
4 Bots for a player = 4x Profit for player and 4x profit for EA

Granted the player isn't technically making real profit... most the time...

But EA makes profit either way. More features, more land more, useless pixels that are dubbed "rare" = more Bots which = more money plain and simple. Why ban that when it's not really hurting anyone. It's actually making them money.

 

[Zosimus]

1 Bots for a player = Profit for player and EA
4 Bots for a player = 4x Profit for player and 4x profit for EA

Granted the player isn't technically making real profit... most the time...

But EA makes profit either way. More features, more land more, useless pixels that are dubbed "rare" = more Bots which = more money plain and simple. Why ban that when it's not really hurting anyone. It's actually making them money.

LOL that the thing and they wont really ban. In Warhammer you cant talk in advice chat on a trial account that is free but a paying account that is spamming selling gold and leveling for you can. Proof they want the account money no matter what game it is.

 

[Llewen]

I most not have logged in the day GMs where banning cheaters was this a one time event on April 1st last year ?

Actually I know of quite a few players that have been banned for cheating specifically on my shard. So yes it has been happening. There was a big one time banfest when the cheat detection was first acted on, but since then players have been being banned if they were cheating and someone paged on them.

What led me to post this was my paging on someone who clearly was cheating (I won't go into details, so don't ask). I made a bet with them for 1 mil that they would be gone by the evening of the next day, but he won the bet (I did that specifically because I wanted to know whether or not he had actually been banned).

It has since occurred to me that I haven't seen him since the day after I paged on him, and that was a weekend, so it could be that the people that are checking the databases aren't working on the weekends and he has since been banned.

So I'm back to not knowing whether pages specifically with regard to the use of third party cheats are being acted on or not.

 

[Fayled Dhreams]

So I'm back to not knowing whether pages specifically with regard to the use of third party cheats are being acted on or not.​

Nevermind!

​

 

[olduofan]

Actually I know of quite a few players that have been banned for cheating specifically on my shard. So yes it has been happening. There was a big one time banfest when the cheat detection was first acted on, but since then players have been being banned if they were cheating and someone paged on them.

What led me to post this was my paging on someone who clearly was cheating (I won't go into details, so don't ask). I made a bet with them for 1 mil that they would be gone by the evening of the next day, but he won the bet (I did that specifically because I wanted to know whether or not he had actually been banned).

It has since occurred to me that I haven't seen him since the day after I paged on him, and that was a weekend, so it could be that the people that are checking the databases aren't working on the weekends and he has since been banned.

So I'm back to not knowing whether pages specifically with regard to the use of third party cheats are being acted on or not.

Sorry I was just trying to be funny Failed I see.

Any how Like I just said in anther thread I have been gone for many months so I didn't know if they followed through with their threats or not. We all heard they would go after cheaters for years and it was empty shallow meaningless threats. glad see they are finally working on it.cant help but to think its a little to late at this point maybe

 

[Llewen]

Sorry I was just trying to be funny Failed I see.

Yes, I caught the joke, but as far as I could see, as is the case with most jokes, there was something serious behind it.

 

[Restroom Cowboy]

no arguments? then fine. believe is just that. no arguing will do away with that

Actually there is more involved than what you let on to. You completely forget to mention the sound issues in the client...add in the movement issues (conflicting issues with perspective...focus) and you have the same issues associated with a typical 3d game. There is no arguing this, and you know that had you included those issues it would have voided your whole argument.

I chose to call BS to your BS without adding more to it because this thread is not about the new client...it is about GMs and the current issue with anticheats that really arent doing what they should.

 

[Boogy]

Thats not a script thats bind key to mouse roll up or down or macro on key. Most likely mouse wheel as that is easier than pressing a side button. Script takes a longer as it only reacts after the effect, Hot key is faster as player reacts before being effected. Once a player knows what he is fighting he will adjust his skills toward the enemy, the script can't do that as it has to be preprogrammed way before hand to counter a template they don't know they going to expect. So player can react to the change of pacing at a moments notice while a script is stuck on preprogramed instruction which can be confused and muck up easily by a mediocre pvp player. These are the reasons scripts are never used in PVP for any real pvp battle as it handicaps the user of it immensly and gurantees his defeat. Also a player that doesn't use proper macros-and hot keys are also guranteed to lose against someone who knows how to bind there keys to gaming mouses and keyboards.

/This

Most people do not understand this. Play for a very long time and you get to learn how to time certain things.... in not only PvM but in PvP.... Its easy to predict what poisoners do because they only do one thing most of the time.

Remember you cant chug a cure pot if you are not poisoned... but you can hold a button down and cure before you are displayed as poisoned.
(The rest of this post is not directed at you Kaiser, or anybody one poster in particular, its nice to hear from somebody else who thinks for themselves)
Compare this to script that will have a delay(that can be set to whatever you want), too fast and it wont work repeatedly... too slow and you take damage before being cured. Either way, it is slower. Want proof? I have tested it myself. Don`t believe me? Do it your ****ing self.... Put up or shut up.

Face it, people who cry wolf over this **** are too slow, too predictable, and permanoob


This "ban all cheaters" nonsense is a joke.... If you did that you might have enough people to populate one shard... maybe

It has gotten very old listening to the very vocal minority drive away the great silent majority.... Do you wonder where those 200k subscribers went? Half were driven away by the dev team and the other half got too annoyed with listening to your BS and left.

 

[popps]

1 Bots for a player = Profit for player and EA
4 Bots for a player = 4x Profit for player and 4x profit for EA

Granted the player isn't technically making real profit... most the time...

But EA makes profit either way. More features, more land more, useless pixels that are dubbed "rare" = more Bots which = more money plain and simple. Why ban that when it's not really hurting anyone. It's actually making them money.

I totally disagree.

Cheating in the game, as I see it, can hurt other players game play (players who do not cheat).

How ?

In PvP it gets players to loose a fight (hacks and fighting offensive/defensive scripts). Pretty much an obvious inbalance here...

As in regards looting scripts or resource gathering, or Bulk Order Deeds or Library Collectibles or Heartwwod Quests, it hurts players not cheating, because it devalues the time spent in the game by all those players who do not cheat.

If a player has to take time away from their life to gather items in the game, their time has a value which is embedded into that item which was obtained through investing that time.
But if there are players capable of getting those same items through scripts, those items will be possible to be priced much, much lower than it could be for those players who actually had to spend their time to get them.

Eventually, the more rampant scripting is, the cheaper those items will become thus simply making it not worth the time to get them for those players who do not cheat.

Just to make an example to explain the point I am trying to make, if rampant scripting brings down the price of a barbed runic sewing kit to 500,000, given the time it is needed to invest into getting one without scripting, a player who "might" have wished to get a barbed runic sewing kit on their own, without cheating, might be better off just spend the same time doing else in the game, more rewarding, and just buy the kit for 500k gold....

This means, that cheating can effectively make a whole lot of activities in the game "not worth their time" for players who do not cheat when playing.
That is, a lot of players might be better off not mining, not chopping wood, not collecting Bulk Order Deeds, not doing Heartwood Quests, not doing Library Collectibles and on and on and on.................

Basically, a whole lot of activities in the game which players "might" be willing to enjoy and play with, could be not worth the time it takes to get them done and players not cheating, because of scripters, might better just do else in the game in that same time frame and buy what they need from scripters.

I think this as VERY wrong and bad for the game itself since it reduces the number of activieties that players might be willing to do in the game and, perhaps, alienate some players from the game, eventually, causing loss of subscriptions.

So, and this is my point in the discussion, it is entire debatable whether cheating in Ultima Online is in the end "profitable" for the Company that owns the game.

Because the cheaters might subscribe more than 1 account and bring in more revenues but other players who do not want to cheat might be deterred from playing or from returning to the game because of the rampant cheating and so, the end tally from subscriptions lost rather than gained, could be at a losing balance thus meaning less profits rather than more.......

But, at least to my liking, there is also more to how cheating can effect my gaming long term.

If I do not enjoy nor want to play games where others can cheat, and I feel that not enough is done to stop cheating in a game that I happened to be playing with others, this might well deter me from even considering any future release from that particular game Company that I felt was not strong enough against cheating, in the one game I played of theirs........

So, I am not sure how much cheating in a game can be profitable in the long run......

 

[popps]

want to fix the scripters.. every resource in the game that needs to be scripted to get in bulk needs to be for sale by a npc..

want to buy heartwood boards.. go to luna and pick some up at the carpenter.. at a set amount..

yes you can get it yourself for free or buy from npc for a premium price. take out the scripters market.

I'd much more prefer a daily CAP or, even better, a weekly CAP on the amount of any scriptable resource, PER ACCOUNT.

And trial account cannot script for those resources.

This way, 24/7 scripters will be so much limited in the gross amount of resources that they can harvest daily or in a week, to make it not worth the money spent in monthly subscription for that scripting account.

As in regards to the daily or weekly CAP, it should be determined on the average game player. Two hours per day activity seems a good average to me. I'd rather prefer a weekly CAP to a daily CAP because often the average player might not have time every day to play but more time on the weekend and thus, a weekly CAP could be more friendly.

And, to just avoid the scripter shifting activity after they hit the CAP for any given item, I think it should just be 1 overal CAP (i.e. for all of the scriptable items) and not separate CAPs for each individual scriptable item type.

That is, the CAP, as I see it, should be such that whether of just 1 resource or of many resources when reached, will no longer allow getting any of the scriptable resources for that week.

Like, if the CAP is set at 5,000 resources per week (just a mere example for sake of explaining better the argument...), one could get 5,000 iron ore and be done with the quota for that week or get 1,000 iron ore + 1,000 shadow ore + 1,000 heatwood boards + 1,000 feathers + 1,000 barbed leather hides = 5,000 total CAP reached no more for that week......

 

[Warpig Inc]

5000 for base items bit low. More just be easier that once a player hits 5001 a few pure UO GMs get an auto page to observe player activities. Hell theese new Pure UO GMs could get an auto flag to observe a character that been logged on for more the ten hours.

 

[popps]

5000 for base items bit low. More just be easier that once a player hits 5001 a few pure UO GMs get an auto page to observe player activities. Hell theese new Pure UO GMs could get an auto flag to observe a character that been logged on for more the ten hours.

Well, I indicated a figure of 5,000 just for sake of explaining better the point being made.

The figure can be changed to a more reasonable one.

What I think is important, is that whatever figure it could be, it should anyways resemble whatever an average player could harvest through a daily average of 2 hours game play per day (14 hours per week). Nothing more.

So, it should be assessed in some way how many resources a player could reasonably get in 14 hours and then set that amount as the weekly CAP if this is how scripting wants to be fought with.........

Though, probably, 14 hours might even ooverdoing it since I qould expect the average player in the allotted gaming time to also do other activities in the game like skill trainimg, hunting, chatting with fellow players and such.

So, probably the CAP could be quite lower than that, even.

Now that I come to think of it, it could even be a "time" CAP rather than an "item count" CAP.

That is, bypass entirely the 6,000 or 10,000 ore, boards whatever figure for a CAP and have a CAP that times "the resource gathering" activity in the game.

That is, for example, have a CAP for 7 hours per week (1 per day) in any in game activity that yields scriptable resources.

Like if I mine for 3 hours overall for that week, regardless how much ore I pull up, my "time CAP" for other resource gathering scriptable activities for that week left will be 4 more hours that I can use to log for wood, do Bulk Order Deeds and so forth.

This way, as I hit the total of 7 hours any of the activities listed as scriptable will no longer yield any results to me. I am done for that week, period.

This would probably be more player friendly and not create confusion as to whether it is worth to get X thousands feather or ore or wood and so forth.

The CAP is the time spent in game in that activity, once the allotted time is up, those activities will yield no results for that week.

 

[Fayled Dhreams]

Awesome, we have a doctor in the house!

What is your specialty?

Well, now don't hold me to this, but ...
I think schizophrenic confusion is the specialty in question ...
observe a highlighted QFT of the post you quoted

Technically, this is actually impossible. Believe me I know what I am talking about.

The motion sickness that has been described using simulators and first person computer games is real and has to do with the exact problem people experience when on a boat. Visually Perceived Motion that does not co-register with your other sensory organs. This is aggravated by slightly off perspectives and such in 3D games. Certain recent FPS games were notorious for causing motion sickness because the 3D rendering was off by 9-11%.

In a 2D (and the EC is still 2D) board game this is impossible, unless you are also affected by the old client, or by your Pogo board games or something. One could also get seizures and such from staring at moving images. However, this is no better, nor worse, using the EC.

so people need to stop using "medical" issues as a way to force out the EC. I call enormous BS on that tactic.

impossible unless it is happening ... right!

 

[Llewen]

Face it, people who cry wolf over this **** are too slow, too predictable, and permanoob

This "ban all cheaters" nonsense is a joke.... If you did that you might have enough people to populate one shard... maybe

I love glorious inconsistencies like this particular one. It's typical of those who argue against doing anything about the culture of cheating that exists in UO. First he says, no one is cheating, you're just a noob, then he says if all the cheaters were banned there would be no one playing the game. So which is it? It certainly can't be both...

The truth is that almost any specific example of cheating can be explained away if you try hard enough, honestly or dishonestly, but the generality is also true, there is an awful lot of cheating going on in UO. It is pretty clear to me that the majority of the high end players in the game are running cheats of one sort or another, both in and out of pvp.

 

[Boogy]

I love glorious inconsistencies like this particular one. It's typical of those who argue against doing anything about the culture of cheating that exists in UO. First he says, no one is cheating, you're just a noob, then he says if all the cheaters were banned there would be no one playing the game. So which is it? It certainly can't be both...

The truth is that almost any specific example of cheating can be explained away if you try hard enough, honestly or dishonestly, but the generality is also true, there is an awful lot of cheating going on in UO. It is pretty clear to me that the majority of the high end players in the game are running cheats of one sort or another, both in and out of pvp.

Im not saying nobody is scripting, im just saying that using it in PvP is a handicap, not an advantage.
The cheating I see that is effective is speed hacking, but only about half of the complaints about that are founded.

To me I do see a difference between running scripts and speedhacking/packet manipulation. If you do not know the difference, I suggest you learn a bit more about this game we play.

And yes, I am willing to bet >%75 of people who still have accounts have atleast one char that they used "that program" to train. The reason you don`t hear about it is nobody wants to tell a snitch or a whitenight about there business.
(retracted)

 

[Llewen]

Your ignorance does not equal dishonesty on my part.

Scripts are still the biggest issue in pvp in my opinion, scripts, art/mul hacks and timing exploits. Scripts work, they aren't a disadvantage if they are configured properly. The hardest people I know to kill are running them. I pvp just about every day. I know what I'm talking about.

I still have yet to see anyone run faster than I do when I'm not clearly lagging. I have yet to see anyone dismounted move any faster than they should be moving. I'm sure most of those pvp'ing with the classic client are running speeders, but those speeders don't allow you to run faster than the movement caps - mounted or dismounted. Those are set server side.

There were also some attack scripts that tamers on my shard were using to time their attacks with those of their pets. Fortunately most of those accounts have been banned. I can tell you from experience that those scripts were nasty.

 

[Boogy]

Scripts are still the biggest issue in pvp in my opinion, scripts, art/mul hacks and timing exploits. Scripts work, they aren't a disadvantage if they are configured properly. The hardest people I know to kill are running them. I pvp just about every day. I know what I'm talking about.

I still have yet to see anyone run faster than I do when I'm not clearly lagging. I have yet to see anyone dismounted move any faster than they should be moving. I'm sure most of those pvp'ing with the classic client are running speeders, but those speeders don't allow you to run faster than the movement caps - mounted or dismounted. Those are set server side.

There were also some attack scripts that tamers on my shard were using to time their attacks with those of their pets. Fortunately most of those accounts have been banned. I can tell you from experience that those scripts were nasty.

I disagree that the hardest to 1 V 1 use scripts. Every time I tried it I got too many "You must wait to preform another action" then had to wait for the script to figure out it did not work. Not worth it in my opinion.

Pets and scripts in PvP: I forgot about that, I hate pvp tamers to begin with... you got me there.

Timing exploits: I havnt seen it done in years, but I will take your word for it as I don`t get to fel nearly as often as I used to, stuff like that should be easy to detect server side. wouldnt do it myself


Art exploit: Are we talking about running through trees? Seen it done, wouldnt do it myself

I never advocated using any exploit, but there are plenty of harmless examples that get used by legit players everyday.

TL;DR. Biggest issue in PvP is exploits

 

[Llewen]

TL;DR. Biggest issue in PvP is exploits

I will grant you one thing. The specific example that the OP gave of cheating may or may not have been, and my guess is probably wasn't. Although it wouldn't surprise me in the least if the "cheater" in that example was using some form of cheats, just not the one suggested in the OP.

Where I see the evidence of health scripts isn't typically in a 1 v 1 context. Where I have seen them have the greatest effect is in a context where a character is dismounted, and being dumped on by three or more attackers, while they are solo. I can pretty much guarantee you that most of the players who were miraculously able to survive in that kind of context, especially when they were being attacked by experienced pvp'rs, were running some form of health script.

You may have had a bad experience when you tried to run one of those scripts, but I can tell you there is more than one version of those kinds of health scripts out there, and they can be tweaked to avoid those kinds of issues. Even a simple script that just chugs a health or a cure pot when a character reaches a certain level of health, can offer a huge advantage.

 

[kokopelli]

First of all:
I have never cheated or used any script myself. Of course not.

But truthfully I have heard that about every 2nd one does it. They talk about it in guild chat, sometimes even I bright daylight (aka talking about how to do this or that standing directly at Luna bank for everyone to hear); they talk about it openly in forums or other chat systems.
Not me. Of course not.

Apparently sometimes they do indeed catch ppl. And even terminate accounts. Never the really big fishes though. Of course not.
They ban trial and/or dummy mule accounts.

And Tim continues on his rounds through Luna on every shard - probably the biggest and most openly visible slap in their face possible... up yours EA. lol.

 

[Ezekiel Zane]

I have to admit I'm seriously sick of the damned books placed all over Luna and at moongates every day on every shard.

 

[popps]

Apparently sometimes they do indeed catch ppl. And even terminate accounts. Never the really big fishes though. Of course not.
They ban trial and/or dummy mule accounts.

And that is the real big, BIG, BIG issue, IMHO............

As long as the Developers do not really follow the gold all the way to those "main" accounts which benefit from the scripting and the cheating, they will barely make a dent and really not harm the cheaters at all.

It is my opinion that only when the cheaters will know for sure that cheating even on a dummy account WILL without a doubt cost them their "main" accounts just as well, perhaps they will end it for good....

And Tim continues on his rounds through Luna on every shard - probably the biggest and most openly visible slap in their face possible... up yours EA. lol.

Yes, that is mostly incredible and I remain speechless at seeing that, every day making me realize how much serious ever was the reference to that "famous" spreadsheet, now about a year's old........

I wonder why Cal made that reference to that spreadsheet if, after a year, we are here to talk about this without much things changed.......

It is kinda depressing, and very upsetting, IMHO, and does not give me a good impression at all about the seriousness of the fight against cheating.

It really makes no sense to me whatsoever that like a year or so ago, now, you made that reference to that spreadsheet, Cal. Not after all this time past we are still here talking about this depressing issue in Ultima Online, cheating.

Would it be really possible, please, to know once and for all where the Developers stand on the issue of cheating in Ultima Online ??

You do not want players to be able to cheat in Ultima Online ?

Then please STOP it for good. Whether using spreadsheets or whatever just END IT, please.

You just do not care whether players cheat or not in your game ?

Well, then please let us know it by all means and CHANGE YOUR OFFICIAL POLICY ABOUT CHEATING making it known to all players that they can cheat a go-go without a problem and fear for their accounts.

Either no to cheating, and damn do something to stop it or yes to cheating but then make it known to us that it is allowed to cheat.

Just PLEASE, do not leave us playing this game any longer with the crap we have been having to endure now for years, a policy forbidding cheating but then seeing players cheat in the game quite often.

Thank you.

 

[Goldberg-Chessy]

Who knew there were so many clueless 2d haters?

I find it kind of sad that people playing EC cant just stfu & play.

2d is not holding anybody or anything back & EC most certainly has the same potential for cheating as 2d.

Bottom line is that there will always be a % of people/players that have a compulsion to concern themselves with what other people are doing, right or wrong.
This group of people could not possibly ever be satisfied or happy & will complain until the day they die.

Cheating sux & is wrong.

Trying to eradicate the entire 2d culture by incorrectly using cheating as a crutch also sux & is wrong.

 

[olduofan]

I have proof they have been fixing exploits finally my leather vet reward tub I have used for years will not dye cloth anymore. I dont feel like I can pvp anymore with out that edge of having the upper hand on others I no longer look better in game with out those colors ahh the good old days

 

[MagicStar]

i say stop cheating or let us all do it
i did bods for over 2 years till i got my first val hammer
while doin it i saw vendors with tons for sale
but i said oh well my time will come
then not long after i got it they made imbuing
wtf is this hammer worth now?
pisses me off by the time honest players get anywhere in this game its ruined either right before or right after
so say in my 2 years getting one hammer then having it turn useless at the same time i really active scriptor prolly got like 20 of them and got the chance to enjoy them

i have other examples but really who cares anymore?
the bods alone caused over 10 accounts to be closed by me and my friends
i have one account but i dont bother makin friends anymore because they always quit sooner or later if not because of what ea has done then because of what they will do next

at this point i say just consider this game a VERY long beta and make a new uo from scratch or just put it to sleep

 

[olduofan]

i say stop cheating or let us all do it
i did bods for over 2 years till i got my first val hammer
while doin it i saw vendors with tons for sale
but i said oh well my time will come
then not long after i got it they made imbuing
wtf is this hammer worth now?
pisses me off by the time honest players get anywhere in this game its ruined either right before or right after
so say in my 2 years getting one hammer then having it turn useless at the same time i really active scriptor prolly got like 20 of them and got the chance to enjoy them

i have other examples but really who cares anymore?
the bods alone caused over 10 accounts to be closed by me and my friends
i have one account but i dont bother makin friends anymore because they always quit sooner or later if not because of what ea has done then because of what they will do next

at this point i say just consider this game a VERY long beta and make a new uo from scratch or just put it to sleep

I have been doing bobs for 7 years haven't even got a gold hammer yet let alone a val i have never even got 1 small bob to into the large for a val your lucky well not really like you said imbuing is the hot thing now and val hammers are cheaper these days and on pac you can always find for sell (strange)

 

[MagicStar]

that is rough
one guy who owned one of the vendors i saw told me he gets like 2 or 3 per month
i didnt believe it at first but i kinda do now

 

[Llewen]

at this point i say just consider this game a VERY long beta and make a new uo from scratch or just put it to sleep

Well, in spite of it all, and I realize I'm the one that started this messy thread, the game is still fun for me. Yes I want the cheaters gone, or perhaps I should say I want to see the culture of cheating in UO destroyed, but even if it isn't, the game still is fun.

Destroying the culture of cheating in UO is one of those long term game goals I doubt will ever be achieved, but I keep trying in my own small way. In the meantime in pvp I've found a way to compete with the cheaters, without becoming a cheater myself, and nothing gives me more satisfaction that seeing the ghost of some player's character who I know was cheating. It doesn't always happen, but it happens often enough to keep me going.

You can compete in UO without cheating, and you can have fun without cheating, but if you start comparing yourself to others, and start getting angry when you see how much they have, and how little you have, you have already lost. All you can do is find things that you enjoy, and set yourself attainable goals, and along the way if you find cheaters, page on them, and keep paging on them.

And here's a tip, when you are paging on a cheater be as specific as you possibly can be. Don't just say, "da dude is cheating", say, "da dude is using a bola defence script", or "bimminy is script mining", etc. If you suspect someone is cheating, try to figure out exactly what they are doing. The more specific you are, the better your chances of seeing some real results.

 

[Vlaude]

You can compete in UO without cheating, and you can have fun without cheating, but if you start comparing yourself to others, and start getting angry when you see how much they have, and how little you have, you have already lost. All you can do is find things that you enjoy, and set yourself attainable goals, and along the way if you find cheaters, page on them, and keep paging on them.

I liked this part.

Have fun at the "Fel Yew Moongate" Llewen.

 

[Goldberg-Chessy]

You can compete in UO without cheating, and you can have fun without cheating, but if you start comparing yourself to others, and start getting angry when you see how much they have, and how little you have, you have already lost. All you can do is find things that you enjoy, and set yourself attainable goals, and along the way if you find cheaters, page on them, and keep paging on them.

I liked this part.

Have fun at the "Fel Yew Moongate" Llewen.

I dont cheat and i have fun at the Fel Yew gate every night.

Whats your point?

If you have Fel gate issues maybe its your level of skill & not your level of cheating knowledge.

Just a thought.

 

[Vlaude]

I dont cheat and i have fun at the Fel Yew gate every night.

Whats your point?

If you have Fel gate issues maybe its your level of skill & not your level of cheating knowledge.

Just a thought.

It was an inside joke that people who played on Catskills with Llewen will get, maybe you should learn to shut up when no one is talking to you. Just a thought.

 

[Goldberg-Chessy]

I dont cheat and i have fun at the Fel Yew gate every night.

Whats your point?

If you have Fel gate issues maybe its your level of skill & not your level of cheating knowledge.

Just a thought.

It was an inside joke that people who played on Catskills with Llewen will get, maybe you should learn to shut up when no one is talking to you. Just a thought.

Lol.

Your posted words warranted my reply.

If it was indeed an inside joke oh well, its a public forum. Not a personal inside joke forum.

Get a clue.

Just a thought

 

[Llewen]

You can compete in UO without cheating, and you can have fun without cheating, but if you start comparing yourself to others, and start getting angry when you see how much they have, and how little you have, you have already lost. All you can do is find things that you enjoy, and set yourself attainable goals, and along the way if you find cheaters, page on them, and keep paging on them.

I liked this part.

Have fun at the "Fel Yew Moongate" Llewen.

I dont cheat and i have fun at the Fel Yew gate every night.

Whats your point?

It was an inside joke that people who played on Catskills with Llewen will get, maybe you should learn to shut up when no one is talking to you. Just a thought.

It's ok Goldberg, I got the joke, and I do - have fun that is.

The joke is that I often have to advertise when I'm at the gate by myself to get some action. It started off with me accidentally entering the command for my crystal portal into general chat. When I found out that that attracted attention, I kept doing it. The only problem is that the cavalry rarely comes galloping in solo, so I have a tendency to get slaughtered fairly often.

 

[Vlaude]

Lol.

Your posted words warranted my reply.

If it was indeed an inside joke oh well, its a public forum. Not a personal inside joke forum.

Get a clue.

Just a thought

Lol.

Telling you to shut up had nothing to do with forum rules or whether it's public or private, it was for your own good so you stop embarrassing yourself by interjecting yourself into a conversation that has nothing to do with you (unless you have some sort of romantic interest in Llewen that is, lol). But it's too late for that now. Just a thought.

Anyways, I still agree with the premise of this thread that cheating is becoming a bigger problem and is hopefully a big part of publish 70 to stop it. But I'm not holding my breath.

 

[Llewen]

I dont cheat and i have fun at the Fel Yew gate every night.

What follows is not an accusation of any sort. I'm just making a general point based on this statement. There really is a deeply entrenched culture of cheating in UO. It goes way beyond a few well known cheat applications used by "cheaters". The sad thing is, if you were to talk to many people who do cheat you would find that they are nice, generally honest people, and many of them would honestly say, "I'm not a cheater." That is what they believe.

But if you were to get down to the nuts and bolts of the issue they might say something like, "I don't cheat, well, I do [insert some random activity here that really is cheating]." The culture of cheating is so deeply entrenched that many who do actually cheat just consider it to be a part of normal UO game play. The only way the devs have a chance of truly making any headway on this issue is if they find a way to kick that culture of cheating to the curb.

The question is what would it take to truly effect that kind of change? Clearly what has been done so far is having very little effect whatsoever.

 

[Cirno]

The culture of cheating is so deeply entrenched that many who do actually cheat just consider it to be a part of normal UO game play. The only way the devs have a chance of truly making any headway on this issue is if they find a way to kick that culture of cheating to the curb.

I think this bears highlighting.

Although I would also add that the causes of cheating could also do with being looked at. Sometimes, widespread cheating occurs to take advantage of or counter a flawed game mechanic. In cases like that, fixing the cause would remove the main need for that particular cheat.

 

[Llewen]

Although I would also add that the causes of cheating could also do with being looked at. Sometimes, widespread cheating occurs to take advantage of or counter a flawed game mechanic. In cases like that, fixing the cause would remove the main need for that particular cheat.

This also highlights something that I've said before. There is no "magic bullet". No one thing is going to signal the end of UO's culture of cheating. It is going to take a concerted effort involving many tactics, strategies and design decisions.

Third party cheat detection was an important tool to give the devs and the gm's, but by itself it will have the effect that we are seeing it have now, which is not much.

And having said that, a sea change of this magnitude will happen incrementally, and in many cases imperceptibly, so perhaps there have been bigger changes than there appear to have been to those of us on the "ground level", actually playing the game.

 

[[JD]]

I don't even know what is meant by "cheating" any more. To this date, aside from someone running a script to train a skill (which I could personally give less than 2 farts about, make gaining a skill fun in the first place and people would actively train it) the only "cheats" I've seen have been speedhackers. Totaling 3 on my server which I have noticed (1 inactive), they are very obvious. People don't even run that heal/cure script any more, because I poison and mortal people and they take 10-15 sec to notice it. Bad PVPers ? Yes. Script runners? Definitely no.

They can't afford to ban anyone anyway because they don't have NEW accounts coming in, because they won't do things which will bring new players in.

They could run detection stuff to find out what else is running in memory but they don't do that.