[Discussion] Scammer Accusation list along with an ICQ/Forum Name List?

[Dan123The123Man]

Ok I was wondering if anyone has thought about starting a list to be stickied in the forum for what people to watch out for or just scammers all together. This is what i'm suggesting, either have a microsoft excel document or just make the list in a thread and Sticky the thread. Add ICQ numbers along with Stratic Forum Names as you get them (easy to recreate an ICQ number but not so easy to recreate a Stratics Member name. If this happens then it will alert you when dealing with new registered members without prior transactions to be cautious). Another reason to have this is that way the people who don't know who is safe to deal with can goto edit and "Find on this page" and put in there ICQ number to see if they are on the list or not. Or have a seperate "Scammer Acusation" forum and Sticky the Scammer ICQ list in this rares forum along with the thread link to the "Scammer Acusation" section.

Since there are those out there that may try and call a good trader a scammer, this would be a good way to determine who the scammers are and keep a list of them... My suggestion would be to follow these steps below when submiting an ICQ number and forum name to be added to the list of scammers, that way everybody will be able to view what exactly went on and everything and we can identify who the safe traders are.... I think that this would be a superb idea considering when we are dealing with rares here for the most part of them there are hundreds of millions of gold involved. By taking these steps hopefully would add alittle bit more safety in dealing with people, or determine who to deal with and who to simply avoid.



~ If you are Scammed, steps to follow:

1. A profile link or the exact Stratics forum name of the person

2. A link to the trade topic where the deal was made

3. Screenshots of PM's discussing the trade / meeting arrangements ** Note: we need a
screenshot! Since we cannot read your PM box.

4. In game screenshot of the chat/message log

5. In game screenshots mentioning who each person is that is involved and what there Stratics forum name is

6. In game screenshots of the trade window

7. In game screenshots of your inventory before and after the trade

8. A short summary/story of what happened and other information you find useful

 

[Petra Fyde]

I'm sorry, this is not possible. Names in UO are not unique, quite apart from genuine mistaken identity problems there are those who have copied known honest traders for the soul purpose of scamming others.
My own 'Petra Fyde' character on Europa was copied and used by a script miner - causing me much distress when I was called out as a cheater and hypocrite by someone who believed the character to be mine.

On the reverse side, it is not unknown for friends, or even alts, of scammers to vouch for and recommend a character as honest when the truth is the exact opposite.

This is the reason that naming scammers is not permitted on these boards.

 

[Tinsil]

Were you actually distressed that much by someone calling you a cheater? lol

I agree though wouldn't help.

 

[Omnius]

It's extremely common place to see scammers use reputable players names. The best security is to always wear a guild tag, they can't precisely copy that.

 

[Athelas]

It's extremely common place to see scammers use reputable players names. The best security is to always wear a guild tag, they can't precisely copy that.

That and match it with an icq/email/stratics account or something like that. They may not be able to copy a guild tag precisely, but in some cases they can get close enough.

 

[CrazyNinja]

It's extremely common place to see scammers use reputable players names. The best security is to always wear a guild tag, they can't precisely copy that.

Unless it's a guild member who's doing it LOL

 

[Omnius]

Hah, true enough crazy. If your guildmates are impersonating you to scam others, you've got bigger issues.

 

[Tazar]

Or unless the guild names are similar enough to be confusing... Ode vs. 0de (O and Zero) for example... or 1vs1 and lvsl... You'd be surprised what a creative scammer can come up with.

 

[Dan123The123Man]

Were you actually distressed that much by someone calling you a cheater? lol

I agree though wouldn't help.

no, I was at work when I made this thread and I believe something should be done to protect those out there that are looking to deal with a legitimate person and not get screwed over. This has been going on for years and I would just like something to be done about it, perhaps something new that hasn't been tried yet if nothing else.

I'm sorry, this is not possible. Names in UO are not unique, quite apart from genuine mistaken identity problems there are those who have copied known honest traders for the soul purpose of scamming others.
My own 'Petra Fyde' character on Europa was copied and used by a script miner - causing me much distress when I was called out as a cheater and hypocrite by someone who believed the character to be mine.

On the reverse side, it is not unknown for friends, or even alts, of scammers to vouch for and recommend a character as honest when the truth is the exact opposite.

This is the reason that naming scammers is not permitted on these boards.

That is why we aren't rellying on JUST character names in UO, I am talking about UO stratic forum names to. After all I am requesting that something like this be made for the forums. If your about to do a trade with somebody and you tell them this for example "Ok i'm at trammel skara bank on character name "bart" wearing "black robe crafted by ect ect, long hair dyed white". I'm saying be descriptive as you can when communicating with this person. I'm not saying just go trade with a random joe off the street without communicating through PMs first. I know a lot of people out there get scammed because they go for and do business with someone right away without thinking because it sounds like they'd get further in the long run. I think following the steps below would help reduce the chance of someone getting scammed. Just remember to gather all the information and be very detailed. The more information the better. I'm not refering to UO character names as much as I am the stratics members name because we all know UO Character names can be duplicated. The names here on stratics as far as I know cannot be. That will also help keep the scammers at bay I think, either they won't get the chance to scam anyone or they will get tired of having to register a new account because they've scammed people?


I would suggest that if somebody accused of being a scammer and shown enough proof they actually are a scammer. My suggestion would be to either:

1. Block there account indefinately or for a period of time.
2. Remove posting rights/privilages indefinately or for a period of time.
3. IP Ban that member indefinately or for a period of time.
4. Start adding warnings, 10% warnings everytime something like this comes up and say at 50% they lose posting rights, at 70% they lose PM rights and at 100% they get banned. indefinately or for a period of time.





1. A profile link or the exact Stratics forum name of the person
2. A link to the trade topic where the deal was made
3. Screenshots of PM's discussing the trade / meeting arrangements ** Note: we need a
screenshot! Since we cannot read your PM box.
4. In game screenshot of the chat/message log

5. In game screenshots mentioning who each person is that is involved and what there Stratics forum name is
6. In game screenshots of the trade window

7. In game screenshots of your inventory before and after the trade

8. A short summary/story of what happened and other information you find useful


I don't believe this is impossible, just because it hasn't been tried in the past or tried and given up on doesn't mean that it is impossible. To me this sounds like a very good plan and you can't necissarily say that it won't work if you haven't tried it. I understand what you are saying when you said "this is why naming scammers are not alloud on these boards". Having all the information above, and as much information as you can provide you can either review the information that people provide or let the members of the forums decide who is a good person to trade with and who isn't. If that is the case where we have to decide for ourselves then I can almost garuntee you there will be more people scammed out there then if better action were to be taken. Such as a moderator of some sort reviewing the information that people provide and making a decision based upon that by possibly going through the steps that I have listed if they are infact a scammer...

"1. Block there account indefinately or for a period of time.
2. Remove posting rights/privilages indefinately or for a period of time.
3. IP Ban that member indefinately or for a period of time.
4. Start adding warnings, 10% warnings everytime something like this comes up and say at 50% they lose posting rights, at 70% they lose PM rights and at 100% they get banned. indefinately or for a period of time.
"

This will eliminate a lot of the scammers out there and if they decide to register a new account if they aren't already IP banned then atleast the members of the forum will be able to view there "join date" and take precaution. I'm not saying that every new member is a bad person to do business with. But atleast if you see they just joined and have less then 5 posts you may take better precaution when dealing with that person. I do strongly believe though that there should be some kind of system in place, if not the "warning bar" below the member name of everyone. Having 0% on the bar would represent that you are in the safe zone vs if you have 100% where more action would be taken against you. If you want to avoid all the in-game screenshots then you could always record a video of what is going on in the game, along with providing the screenshots of PMs and chat logs, and any other additional information.

 

[Lord Nabin]

This puts stratics in the position of having to manage a lot of drama. They clearly do not and should not have to. The team members don't volunteer their time for that. They step up to manage content and help to provide us with an excellently supported community.

Now that all being said. We all are targets and from time to time Victims of Scammers and fraud. I keep a personal list and ,sorry stratics, UOforums does support a scammer list thread and an Itrader rating system which we all have access to.

I am sure when someone new or questionable comes to the table we all ask around for references and can go check the known scammer thread on the other forum. I am contacted several times a week regarding potential buyers and seller. Good communication among ourselves is the best protection. Instead of putting the responsibility off onto stratics we should be stepping up to manage it ourselves the best we all can.

 

[Tinsil]

Dan I actually meant that to Petra!

I still think it is a lot of work for small benefits if any. It's known who the 100% trustworthy people here are, and there's enough of them. Anyone else, always take precautions and use them as a broker if needed and you won't have any problems.

 

[Dan123The123Man]

Dan I actually meant that to Petra!

I still think it is a lot of work for small benefits if any. It's known who the 100% trustworthy people here are, and there's enough of them. Anyone else, always take precautions and use them as a broker if needed and you won't have any problems.

I see what you're saying Tinsil, but if we had some kind of system into play it could save having to pay for a broker because all it takes is the right person to do business with and you won't have to worry about anything. There are a lot of good people in UO that could one day be potential brokers, they are hard to find but that doesn't mean they don't exist. That being said, having a system may be able to save you from paying the extra expenses of having a broker due to just dealing with the right person in the first place. For the people who haven't been around for years and don't really know very many people on the forums it's hard to find out who to trust. I can understand that people who have been here for a good while probably have an idea already of who the 100% trustworthy people are. However, the people out there that may just be returning to UO or just recently joining the forums may not know who the trustworthy people are on here. If there is some kind of system put into play then it could help everyone, not just the new people.

This puts stratics in the position of having to manage a lot of drama. They clearly do not and should not have to. The team members don't volunteer their time for that. They step up to manage content and help to provide us with an excellently supported community.

Now that all being said. We all are targets and from time to time Victims of Scammers and fraud. I keep a personal list and ,sorry stratics, UOforums does support a scammer list thread and an Itrader rating system which we all have access to.

I am sure when someone new or questionable comes to the table we all ask around for references and can go check the known scammer thread on the other forum. I am contacted several times a week regarding potential buyers and seller. Good communication among ourselves is the best protection. Instead of putting the responsibility off onto stratics we should be stepping up to manage it ourselves the best we all can.

I agree, but some of the other threads on this forum seem to be stickied and volunteers are updating them... Take Manticore for example, I am sure he does not get paid to keep track of all the rares and update the thread when new ones come out. All it takes is the simple effort from the community out there who have been scammed to give us a detailed description of everything and as much information as you can provide. Most people who have been scammed are willing to do this, I don't know who out there gets scammed and just turns the cheek without saying anything. Usually people care about whether they get scammed or not, and having a "scammer list" or "beware potential scammers" kind of thread with the ICQ list and UO stratic forum names can only do more good then bad. Notice how I didn't even mention adding the character names in the list because names in the game can be duplicated and wouldn't really justify anything. A good player could be using the same name as a known scammer or vice versa. That is why I think ICQ numbers and stratic forum names would be better to go by.


If nobody seems to agree with the scammer list because you think that it's to much work to post in the thread or PM a moderator with all the information then I vote that we have what uoforums has. The "Itrader" system or the warning system, have something in place. It's kind of "You get what you pay for" in a way because the better system that you come up with the safer we are all going to be. If you want to take shortcuts or do a "half ass job" creating a system to protect people then that's not much different then sitting on your hands and doing nothing, and that will only allow the bad traders out there to have more power over us. Please do something because it's clear something should be done after all these years. I can't see how trying to prevent people from being scammed could go wrong by either using the system that I suggested or the one that Nabin suggested that UOForums uses. Someone should look into using something though because it would help everyone out in the long run.

 

[Manticore]

You mean I can charge people to upkeep the list?

 

[Restroom Cowboy]

FYI, even those who claim legitimacy on this page can be shown in a different light. We have in our midst a bug tester and moderator for a well known UO bug site...parading around as a *legit* trader.

As long as people like that are running around claiming to be legit and cannot be named, they have a safe haven on these forums. Unfortunately there is little that can be done about it...at least not without getting banned from here personally.

 

[Slickjack]

Any time there is someone that is "known" as a scammer, there is a pretty good circuit of ICQ messages that circle around announcing the person along with his ID (icq #, forum name, game name etc.).

This is the only recourse we have at this time and it's been this way for a while.

 

[Magdalene]

Enough of drama and conspiracy theories.
We do NOT allow named accusations, if you want to list bad apples so badly do it on your own site, blog, whatever and deal with the drama, legal action threats and the like. We will not have any of this, thank you.
This discussion is OVER, not to be reopened.