Ultima Online Premier membership

[Zosimus]

I can use a Mcdonalds example myself.

I have a friend that I have known for years that owns a few Mcdonalds. One of his restraunts I have some bad orders with constantly everytime I would go there. I talked to him about it and he said they would look into it and was trying to fix the issues with that particualr one. Months later I hadnt had Mickey D's forever so I wanted a Big Mac. I order the number 1 get home and when I open the Big Mac carton I got what they called a Plain Big Mac. All I got was 3 pieces of bread, one meat pattie and cheese on it., No onions, pickles lettuce or sauce. I was mad as hell. I called up the store and complained to high heaven.

I support all my friends businesses as long as it serves my needs. This was my last straw with dealing with any of this particular friends stores. So out of 8 Mickey D's in my area I can go to one that he has no ties to. Just got fed up with constant bad orders. I will not support bad service even if I am friends with the owner.

 

[jaashua]

Referring to that Mc Donalds example again:

They give me another meal as poor as before. I don't turn around and offer them MORE money to fix it. It's quite clear in this case that UO's support levels have dropped. Why should we offer them more to fix it?

The only time I'd want to offer them money is when I ask them to exceed our expectations. Let's say for example support is from 9-5 each day for our subscription. Some could offer to pay extra for support outside of trade hours.

I thought you had no problem with the support from UO?

UO is not McDonald's. It's the BBQ joint. It's struggling because it has a terrible location and isn't as cheap as Wendy's.

Rather than unhelpfully suggest the owner redouble his efforts to get things moving, which he would have done already if he could, you could also get a couple thousand people who love the BBQ together and each put in $40. He could then use that money for his first four months of rent at a better location and maybe bring in a couple more smokers to broaden his menu. In return, he'd give each "investor" free sodas for the rest of the year.

Meanwhile, people who also enjoy his BBQ but aren't interested in taking that extra step would benefit from the new better location and greater selection. And the better location and broader menu also attract new customers who taste the amazing BBQ and he ends up opening a few more BBQ joints around the city.

 

[jaashua]

It may not affect anybody at all. What you are saying is no different then what we classic sharders were asking. They said no to a classic shard, they have no solution to deal with siege problems, and they will say no to a premier shard. UO days of big budgets are in the past.

There is a key difference. Classic shard supports weren't asking to pay an extra $15 for the right. That's what makes this an immediate win for the UO dev team and a win long term.

Its a good idea you have but has many ways to be argued. When UO competes against F2P games with better graphics, B2P games with better graphics, P2P with better graphics its hard for UO. Graphics dont make a game but content does. They dont advertise UO and you sure are not going to get a new player in the mmo market now days play a 90's graphic game. It just dont work like that. Kids are playing games online that will be future MMO players and UO just isnt graphically appealing to them.

I'm functioning under the assumption that those premier members would request, first and foremost, that their extra resources be devoted to updating the graphics. It seems every rational subscriber sees that as the top priority for this game. For some ridiculously frustrating reason the devs do NOT. Instead, we're getting new Magincia and a spring cleanup and new house design sets and freaking panda bear dolls.

 

[Woodsman]

I'm functioning under the assumption that those premier members would request, first and foremost, that their extra resources be devoted to updating the graphics. It seems every rational subscriber sees that as the top priority for this game. For some ridiculously frustrating reason the devs do NOT. Instead, we're getting new Magincia and a spring cleanup and new house design sets and freaking panda bear dolls.

The graphics are going to be updated - they've announced that the design is done, they just need PR to clear it.

But pretend the graphics weren't going to be updated for everybody.

Pretend that only premier members get updated graphics.

How does that help UO?

You going to tell new players that they have to pay almost $30 a month if they want those graphics and they can only play the premier shard?

Are you going to tell existing players that they have to cough up the extra $14 or whatever a month to get those graphics, and they also have to change shards from their home shard if they want to see those graphics? That's sure as hell not going to happen - in addition to paying twice as much per month, you're asking those players to pay for the character transfers. EA is not going to give free transfers either, that's good money that they aren't going to pass up.

How are you going to add those graphics? If you use existing high-resolution copies of existing artwork or the KR graphics, you're using artwork that was paid for years ago by the common UO player. Think they are going to be happy that artwork they paid for years ago could now only be accessed by "premier" UO players on a special shard and that the 27 live shards are going to be forced into using old artwork for years to come, just so there can be a premier shard with different artwork.

What happens when EA says everybody gets the artwork - think the premier players will be happy?

Obviously it's a moot point since we are getting a graphics update, but every single step you take in your plan, you have to ask yourself whether it's dividing up the community and/or creating ill-will among them, and you have to ask yourself will it in anyway impact the resources paid for by existing players.

I think you should look at it another way - at things that would bring players together, not drive a financial barrier between them that may cause some serious ill-will.

 

[Zosimus]

There is a key difference. Classic shard supports weren't asking to pay an extra $15 for the right. That's what makes this an immediate win for the UO dev team and a win long term.

I'm functioning under the assumption that those premier members would request, first and foremost, that their extra resources be devoted to updating the graphics. It seems every rational subscriber sees that as the top priority for this game. For some ridiculously frustrating reason the devs do NOT. Instead, we're getting new Magincia and a spring cleanup and new house design sets and freaking panda bear dolls.

It will never happen. Make a poll on stratics and see how many players that do post on here would pay that much for a premiere shard. Also put up an option if EA would do such a thing then how many players would leave the game because they felt that playing on their regular shard wasnt good enough for EA.

Every player in a MMO should be important not just a few elites that would be willing to pay double the cost for no guarantee. Also on this remark especially....

Classic shard supports weren't asking to pay an extra $15 for the right

They may not been asking for the right to pay an extra $15 but EA wasnt even getting their $12.99 in the first place either to ask such a thing from them.

This server would have full time dedicated GMs (who would aggressively ban scripters/hackers/griefers, etc) as well as more EM events

.

They cant even do anything about speedhacking let alone scripters now. It takes way to much time and resources to deal with them. They cant fix cheating on one shard and not the others. Plus then you have 3 patches having to be worked on. EC client, regular based classic client shards, and then the premiere shard. GMs dont do the patches or code work. So add a programmer in there to cover that.


If you feel you have a solid argument then make a poll. Siege players wont be happy about it, the argumentative resource wasting crowd wont be happy with it, classic shard supporters wont be happy with it, the players wanting the game to be equal for all wont be happy with it. You got a uphill battle.

You should be focusing on a UO2 with such strong feelings about this topic. I bet everything that Supreem and the rest of the devs would be rather working with a fresh new client and code.

 

[Zosimus]

The graphics are going to be updated - they've announced that the design is done, they just need PR to clear it.

But pretend the graphics weren't going to be updated for everybody.

Pretend that only premier members get updated graphics.

How does that help UO?

You going to tell new players that they have to pay almost $30 a month if they want those graphics and they can only play the premier shard?

Are you going to tell existing players that they have to cough up the extra $14 or whatever a month to get those graphics, and they also have to change shards from their home shard if they want to see those graphics? That's sure as hell not going to happen - in addition to paying twice as much per month, you're asking those players to pay for the character transfers. EA is not going to give free transfers either, that's good money that they aren't going to pass up.

How are you going to add those graphics? If you use existing high-resolution copies of existing artwork or the KR graphics, you're using artwork that was paid for years ago by the common UO player. Think they are going to be happy that artwork they paid for years ago could now only be accessed by "premier" UO players on a special shard and that the 27 live shards are going to be forced into using old artwork for years to come, just so there can be a premier shard with different artwork.

What happens when EA says everybody gets the artwork - think the premier players will be happy?

Obviously it's a moot point since we are getting a graphics update, but every single step you take in your plan, you have to ask yourself whether it's dividing up the community and/or creating ill-will among them, and you have to ask yourself will it in anyway impact the resources paid for by existing players.

I think you should look at it another way - at things that would bring players together, not drive a financial barrier between them that may cause some serious ill-will.

Very well said.

 

[jaashua]

The graphics are going to be updated - they've announced that the design is done, they just need PR to clear it.

But pretend the graphics weren't going to be updated for everybody.

Pretend that only premier members get updated graphics.

How does that help UO?

I've said all along from the very first post and have reiterated multiple times that the developers work on UO as a whole with some input given by the premier membership group. It's why this is a win for regular UO players. They lose nothing they have now and they get whatever the new developers produce. The only thing exclusive to the premier members are dedicated GM, maybe some extra events, and a private forum.

 

[jaashua]

It will never happen. Make a poll on stratics and see how many players that do post on here would pay that much for a premiere shard.

I posted this here because this forum is full of negative contentious whiners. Perfect for challenging ideas. The fact that you guys are starting to really really reach to try to tear down this idea means I think I'm onto something.

Also put up an option if EA would do such a thing then how many players would leave the game because they felt that playing on their regular shard wasnt good enough for EA.

The regular shards stay the same. If people didn't feel the game was worth their money, they'd have quit by now. What you're suggesting is that people would debark from a plane and refuse to fly coach because there are people flying first class. Makes no sense.

Every player in a MMO should be important not just a few elites that would be willing to pay double the cost for no guarantee. Also on this remark especially.... They may not been asking for the right to pay an extra $15 but EA wasnt even getting their $12.99 in the first place either to ask such a thing from them.

They would be just as important as they are now. They would just have the option of funding some additional services for themselves. But I can appreciate the anti-capitalist sentiment.

They cant even do anything about speedhacking let alone scripters now. It takes way to much time and resources to deal with them. They cant fix cheating on one shard and not the others. Plus then you have 3 patches having to be worked on. EC client, regular based classic client shards, and then the premiere shard. GMs dont do the patches or code work. So add a programmer in there to cover that.

The shard is the same as all the other shards. it just has more GMs on it. And you NAILED it. They can't do it now because they don't have the resources. So what do you propose they do about it? If they could put more people on it, they would have by now. If some of us want to pay a premium and give them the resources to do it for us, then it's really no skin off your nose. Keep playing as is.

If you feel you have a solid argument then make a poll. Siege players wont be happy about it, the argumentative resource wasting crowd wont be happy with it, classic shard supporters wont be happy with it, the players wanting the game to be equal for all wont be happy with it. You got a uphill battle.

You should be focusing on a UO2 with such strong feelings about this topic. I bet everything that Supreem and the rest of the devs would be rather working with a fresh new client and code.

I don't need a poll. Not in this place. Siege players got what they asked for. No resources are being wasted on this endeavor whatsoever. On the contrary, they are gaining additional resources and all they have to do is put a percentage of that towards hightened service on the shard which is just like every other shard in every other regard. Classic shard supporters already lost their battle, primarily because THEY were asking for additional resources be expended on supporting a third shard type. I'm not.

The reality is, say there are 80,000 subscribers, I only need to get 3% of them to subscribe to a premier subscription service to hit 2,500.

 

[Martyna Zmuir]

This is such a horrendously bad idea I'm not sure where to begin...


First, throwing more money at UO isn't going to solve the current problems. EA will just gobble it all up and spending it on something stupid that wouldn't benefit UO. Case in point, the previously mentioned $3 sub increase - We received NOTHING from it, it was a BS excuse to charge more.

Some of us just spent $15 on the HS booster, so UO just made a bunch of money...on an incomplete buggy product that most of us still rag on. SA has yet to be completed, and that was $30 a pop.

Perhaps people might be duped into paying more for their subs is Mythic bothered to show some professionalism in their communications and end-product. Since this isn’t likely to happen, our wallets are safe.

 

[jaashua]

This is such a horrendously bad idea I'm not sure where to begin...

So your only issue is that you don't think EAMythic would be willing to accept the conditions?

 

[SirZ]

Premier membership - that is stupidest idea what I've heard.

 

[jaashua]

Stratics doesn't disappoint.

 

[Petra Fyde]

I don't think it's a good idea.
Plus, even if it was implemented exactly as you say there would still be complaints about bad service.

Why? Because a percentage of the 'poor service' is the result of badly worded pages from the players. Not all, I admit, but on the very, very rare occasions I have paged a gm I am seldom disappointed.

I think hard before I send the page about how best to word it to give a clear explanation of the problem. I always include what I have already tried to fix it, so they won't tell me to do what I've already done.

Think more carefully about what you're asking for and service will improve. It won't be perfect, but it will be better.

 

[Martyna Zmuir]

This is such a horrendously bad idea I'm not sure where to begin...

So your only issue is that you don't think EAMythic would be willing to accept the conditions?

Not only do I not believe that the evil which is EA not live up to any 'conditions' placed upon it by such a subscription, they have proven that they just don't care. The $3 sub increase was "sold" to us by saying that it would go to increased customer service, about a year later GMs were outsourced to India. History is a pancake.

Now, we do have a few notable good GMs lurking around UO, however, they are the exception. While "poor word choice" on the player's part might account for a fraction of canned responses, a lot of it can be chalked up to poorly trained GMs who just don't care about UO. Honestly, pushing bad CS off on the customer as 'their fault' is an excuse.

The scariest thing said during the video HoC was the "Not our department!" response to the bad GM service. The PRODUCER and ASSOCIATE PRODUCER of UO said that. If anyone should be able to call EA CS (or whatever alternate reality the GMs are from) it should be Cal. Cal should care that we perceive GM support to be deplorably bad. Apparently he doesn't, it’s not his department after all... *coughs* Professionalism! *coughs*

Until there is a marked (good) change in the way EA and Mythic treat their customers, they don't deserve any extra money. Throwing money at a problem isn't they way to fix it in the real world, especially not during a global recession.

 

[Santa Claus]

Everquest had such a shard, anyone knows how it fared?

 

[Woodsman]

The scariest thing said during the video HoC was the "Not our department!" response to the bad GM service. The PRODUCER and ASSOCIATE PRODUCER of UO said that. If anyone should be able to call EA CS (or whatever alternate reality the GMs are from) it should be Cal. Cal should care that we perceive GM support to be deplorably bad. Apparently he doesn't, it’s not his department after all... *coughs* Professionalism! *coughs*

Why is that scary.

EA made the choice to move the GMs for UO and DAOC into a different group to save money/squeeze money, most likely their main customer service department. It was made in the upper levels of management by somebody who probably cares little about UO.

If Cal wants to interact with the GMs directly or how they are handled or whatever, he has to go up a chain of executives and then down another chain of executives. Somewhere along the way, some executive could quite easily tell Cal "we moved the GMs for UO and DAOC to be a shared asset under customer service to save money, maybe we should save a little more money and fire you for raising a stink."

I know you have this romantic ideal that Cal and the others should risk their jobs every day pleasing you, but that's not the way the real world works.

Did they look happy about the GM issue?

Were they grinning and talking about how they think it's wonderful that they have no say in the GM department. Were they just bouncing with joy over that?

No, they looked like it pissed them off, and they also looked like if they could change it they would, but they can't.

When you get out in the real world, and you get a real job, you will discover that certain decisions are made that are not up for discussion. This looked like one of those decisions. In the real world, if you don't like such a decision and try to raise a fuss, they'll find somebody to replace you who does accept such a decision.

The $300 million Star Wars game ($900 million if you count the cost of purchase BioWare) is probably going to be sharing those same GMs with UO, DAOC, and Warhammer (and probably other EA titles), so don't think that UO is being singled out. Our actual customer service times may even improve since it looks like they have been hiring to beef up the CS department for Star Wars.

 

[MalagAste]

Worst idea EVER.

First off EA is the ones controlling GM service and their track record is one of the worst in the industry.

Most all other online game services have FAR better GM's than EA. EA's policy seems to be to treat all players as if they are guilty of things... and trying to "get away" with something.

Secondly I pay plenty for things and most other games do NOT charge that much and you get 10X the service... why on earth would I pay more for less? Are they going to give me true 3d??? No. Are they going to actually know when I've been hacked and return my account and my things to me? NO. Not their policy. So forget it.

Most games if someone scams you or hacks you..... they get your things back and don't treat you like a criminal.

Not to mention for the 12.99 we pay they get FAR better graphics. I'm not paying way more for the poor graphics we have.... not that I think graphics are the game... but to get more players UO needs all the help it can get.

The only thing that would get me to move or start all over would be a true player driven shard that was designed with RP in mind. Where the EM's are devoted to RP... where your actions actually have an impact on the shard.

 

[Tina Small]

Why is that scary.

EA made the choice to move the GMs for UO and DAOC into a different group to save money/squeeze money, most likely their main customer service department. It was made in the upper levels of management by somebody who probably cares little about UO.

If Cal wants to interact with the GMs directly or how they are handled or whatever, he has to go up a chain of executives and then down another chain of executives. Somewhere along the way, some executive could quite easily tell Cal "we moved the GMs for UO and DAOC to be a shared asset under customer service to save money, maybe we should save a little more money and fire you for raising a stink."

I know you have this romantic ideal that Cal and the others should risk their jobs every day pleasing you, but that's not the way the real world works.

Did they look happy about the GM issue?

Were they grinning and talking about how they think it's wonderful that they have no say in the GM department. Were they just bouncing with joy over that?

No, they looked like it pissed them off, and they also looked like if they could change it they would, but they can't.

When you get out in the real world, and you get a real job, you will discover that certain decisions are made that are not up for discussion. This looked like one of those decisions. In the real world, if you don't like such a decision and try to raise a fuss, they'll find somebody to replace you who does accept such a decision.

The $300 million Star Wars game ($900 million if you count the cost of purchase BioWare) is probably going to be sharing those same GMs with UO, DAOC, and Warhammer (and probably other EA titles), so don't think that UO is being singled out. Our actual customer service times may even improve since it looks like they have been hiring to beef up the CS department for Star Wars.

I understand all of what you are saying about how customer service is often dumped in its own silo and managed as a separate cost center. However, most companies train ALL of their employees who have even the slightest chance of interacting directly with customers to never, ever duck an issue by throwing up your hands and saying, "Sorry, that's someone else's issue."

Laughing in response to a question about how GMs are being trained on UO-specific needs and then saying, "That's not our department, we cannot answer that" sends a very poor message to the customer. How is the customer supposed to interpret the laughter in response to the question? Is the laughter directed at the person who asked the question or is it because of something else that the customer has no way of knowing about? Either way, laughter at such a question is not an appropriate response in front of paying customers.

Ducking the customer's question by only saying, "That's not our department, we can't answer that" is absolutely unacceptable in companies that spend any kind of time and money training all of their customer-facing employees on customer service issues. That two people in management positions at EA give that kind of a response is a bit mind-boggling. At the very least, they could have added that while they couldn't provide a specific answer to the question, they would follow up with the other area and post a reply later. Laughing and completely ducking the issue.....just a very poor reaction all the way around.

 

[[JD]]

they need to bring back counselors. i know why they got rid of them, this crazy woman from CO who was a counselor got a wrist injury (carpal tunnel) because she spent all day on the game due to having no life, and then sued them. thanks for ruining it for the rest of us, "k".

anyway, they could limit the # hrs counselors would be in game, to an hr a day, and have a waiver. whatever, let your lawyers figure out the legalese. i would totally volunteer, i love helping people. but! no being a counselor on your own shard.

counselors should have a way to escalate and communicate to gm's.

and gm's should show up IN PERSON again and stop this auto form/response bullcrap.

there should be ticket #s generated when you call their customer service/helpdesk, and then those tickets transferred to GMs. none of this "go talk to a GM", and then you talk to a GM and he says "i cannot help thee". this amounts to a sanctioned brush-off by UO, and is terrible customer service. they should be reported to the BBB for the way they handle some of these things. we're all dopey enough to keep comin back though, that's the only reason they do it.

 

[Martyna Zmuir]

EA made the choice to move the GMs for UO and DAOC into a different group to save money/squeeze money, most likely their main customer service department. It was made in the upper levels of management by somebody who probably cares little about UO.

If Cal wants to interact with the GMs directly or how they are handled or whatever, he has to go up a chain of executives and then down another chain of executives. Somewhere along the way, some executive could quite easily tell Cal "we moved the GMs for UO and DAOC to be a shared asset under customer service to save money, maybe we should save a little more money and fire you for raising a stink."

I’m glad you have an inside line on exactly how EA works. All your information is an assumption. I seriously doubt there is some long chain of ‘executives’ between Cal and whoever runs the GMs.

Remember, the one time Cal ‘did’ correct the GM department (the goza issue) he was able to, after several attempts. So it’s not an impossibility.

I know you have this romantic ideal that Cal and the others should risk their jobs every day pleasing you, but that's not the way the real world works.

Hun, please. Their job is to please us, their paying customers. Simply shirking responsibility and publicly announcing “it’s not our problem” makes them look very, very bad. It was not only highly unprofessional, it was downright callous.

Did they look happy about the GM issue?

Were they grinning and talking about how they think it's wonderful that they have no say in the GM department. Were they just bouncing with joy over that?

No, they looked like it pissed them off, and they also looked like if they could change it they would, but they can't.

Actually, they looked confused and shocked that the question was even asked – an expression exhibited with frightening repetition during the video.

When you get out in the real world, and you get a real job, you will discover that certain decisions are made that are not up for discussion. This looked like one of those decisions. In the real world, if you don't like such a decision and try to raise a fuss, they'll find somebody to replace you who does accept such a decision.

*raises a brow*

Skirting RoC Rule B? Feeling dangerous are you? Seriously, what’s gotten into you? You’re generally more rational than that… Why so attacky today?

Really, if Cal isn’t willing to go to bat for the people that he claims matter to him, he shouldn’t be producer. UO has a problem with its GM service. Ridiculous delays, and far too many brain-dead canned responses. If he’s not the one to go to for getting this fixed, who is? Or by your logic, should we just shut up and be quiet?

 

[Zosimus]

I don't need a poll. Not in this place.

You disappoint me. You feel that you have such a strong case but wont follow through.

Plus 3% isnt going to change anything how UO is handled. This is reality.

Im far from being anti-capitalist. So the remark was way off on your end. My businesses are proof of that. Its about quality of work and service I provide that has my clients happy. I dont increase prices so certain clients would recieve better quality work. I wouldnt have a 30 year warranty that covers 100% just for certain clients. All get the same warranty. Not all clients pay the exact same amount because of the size of the job. All get the same warranty no matter what. If its 2k or 100k the client is treated the same.

 

[Pandora_CoD]

EA upped the fees years ago on UO and their reasoning was for better customer service. Well that didnt happen. It went down hill. GM's? they disapeared over time to canned responses.

So your asking for double the fee for a premiere account? Not logical or feasible. How fair would that be to all players that even have mutiple accounts and have been paying for years for the supposedly better services that never happened.

A new classic FS opened up last month and when you sign in, on average numbers on that shard are about 1900 players. There is revenue that EA and UO in general is missing out. Plus add the other FS out there with there population still a loss for UO and EA. They did not think it was feasible or logical for classic players so thats a loss of income not coming in.

Even though your idea is with good intentions it would not be fair to all players of UO that some get a special treatment because they pay more. So a new player gets one account and pays the premiere fee. A vet on a regular shard that has 5 accounts and is paying more then the one account new player. So its fair with your idea, for a less paying customer to get all the perks of service versus the guy paying more is not logical.

The game is old and outdated graphics and definetly not worth $28 to $30 a month. There would have to be an iron clad TOS agreement with no loopholes for a player to even agree to that and the money paid would be GUARANTEED to go back into UO for that premiere shard. Not some other game project. EA does what it wants. It doesnt do anything about FS, scripters, or gold sellers. You think they would care about a TOS when they dont even enforce the one they have in UO now? The money would go into another project or their pockets.

If they came up with a UO2 and was similar in graphics, view and style to most modern games out there but, still had UO skills and system I would pay $15 a month.

EA is focusing on SWTOR atm and UO is not even on their radar. If it becomes a flop what happens to all their mmo games they carry? If it becomes a huge success what happens to all their mmo games they carry? It could go either way, good or bad for the rest of their titles either way depending on one's game success or failure. Scary thought.

I would focus my attention on the current game and what you would like to see done better. Like new players, bug fixes, ingame economy, uses for lands that have been forgotten, better quest system, PvP fixes and a reason to PvP then just yew gate and champ spawns.

Gooooood post Zos...

The fact that for $12.99 a month, times 32 accounts (between myself and my guildies), should be enough to get REAL CUSTOMER SERVICE. GM's with canned responses and no power to really help people is not what we signed up for.

I like the idea of premier accounts but not the idea of a premier server. I say make three levels of subscriptions: basic, regular, premier.

Basic is $9.99/mo. & has acess to Trammel and Felucca. Housing is open to accessible areas only. Characters are restricted from items/artifacts found in accessible regions only.
Regular is $12.99/mo. & has access to Trammel, Felucca, Mondains, etc. but no access to latest expansion. Housing is open to accessible areas only. Characters are restricted from items/artifacts found in accessible regions only.
Premier is $15.99/mo. & has access to ALL original and expansion content. Housing is open to all accessible areas. Characters are not restricted to any items/artifacts.

As new expansions come out, premier accounts are the only ones that have access to those areas. If you want to play in the new areas, you can upgrade to the premier level subscription. If you want to take a time out, but you dont want to loose your Tram/Fel house, you can downgrade to the basic level for a while. Say that all you want is to faction PvP, a basic level subcription would accomplish that for you. I think this gives people more flexibility.

My feedback on this idea.

 

[Woodsman]

Laughing in response to a question about how GMs are being trained on UO-specific needs and then saying, "That's not our department, we cannot answer that" sends a very poor message to the customer. How is the customer supposed to interpret the laughter in response to the question? Is the laughter directed at the person who asked the question or is it because of something else that the customer has no way of knowing about? Either way, laughter at such a question is not an appropriate response in front of paying customers.

That's fair. In the video they seemed bitter about it, and they clammed up pretty quick about it.

I got the impression that it was a very sore spot for them.

 

[jaashua]

I still haven't read a single valid argument against this proposal.

The fact that you are unhappy with the current level of service is totally irrelevent to the offering of a premier membership. Clearly, as bad as it is, it isn't a deal breaker because you're all still paying to play.

It wouldn't matter if the current level of service was totally outstanding, the point is people offering to pay more to get more and manage to help accelerate advancement of the game as a whole at the same time.

 

[Martyna Zmuir]

I still haven't read a single valid argument against this proposal.

Actually, you've received several. You simply don't want to accept any of them. This is not our problem.

The fact that you are unhappy with the current level of service is totally irrelevent to the offering of a premier membership. Clearly, as bad as it is, it isn't a deal breaker because you're all still paying to play.

It wouldn't matter if the current level of service was totally outstanding, the point is people offering to pay more to get more and manage to help accelerate advancement of the game as a whole at the same time.

See, here is where your proposal completely breaks down. Paying more for a theoretical increase in services flies in the face of actual documented history.

Again, throwing money at UO in the vain hope that 'someone will pay more attention' has no basis in factual reality. Sorry.

 

[Woodsman]

I’m glad you have an inside line on exactly how EA works. All your information is an assumption. I seriously doubt there is some long chain of ‘executives’ between Cal and whoever runs the GMs.

There is no assumption about the GMs being shared with other games. There are people on this very forum that talk about being thanked for playing other games by the GMs who responded to them.

Customer service is not under BioWare, which means there is a chain - Cal would have to go up through BioWare and then over to EA proper.

Executives don't like it when you decide to skip a part of the chain, because the money does not come out of Cal's group. EA gets our payments, and they take some of that for customer service, and then they give Cal a budget.

Remember, the one time Cal ‘did’ correct the GM department (the goza issue) he was able to, after several attempts. So it’s not an impossibility.

It's not impossible to correct specific things, but it's clear that they have no say in the overall training.

We're all assuming they are actual EA employees and not contractors. If they are contractors, it's one thing for Cal to get an entry corrected in their database over the goza issue since that would be an EA database, and another thing to get involved with their training.

Hun, please. Their job is to please us, their paying customers. Simply shirking responsibility and publicly announcing “it’s not our problem” makes them look very, very bad. It was not only highly unprofessional, it was downright callous.

Would you rather they lie to you and say they'll look into it?

They maybe here to please us, but they are also there to please the executives who are there to please the stockholders. Cost-cutting measures like combining customer service make the stockholders happy which makes the executives happy.

Actually, they looked confused and shocked that the question was even asked – an expression exhibited with frightening repetition during the video.

That's up for interpretation. I took it as bitter and a topic that they didn't want to discuss. Some people saw it as sad or unhappy, others took it as not really caring. It looked like the topic bothered them either way.

As for confused, having watched the Stratics videos again, what I saw was a poorly formatted event. There is a lot on their plate, and so much of it they cannot discuss either because it's not finished or because they are not allowed to. If they had the questions up front, they could have all went through them, and we would have more quick and short answers such as "no we can't discuss that at this time, next" instead of them having to discuss it amongst themselves and it would have freed up time for more questions or longer answers.

I and some others mentioned it in the other thread:
http://vboards.stratics.com/uhall/236574-[news]-house-commons-video-chat.html

10-15 minutes or more of everybody's time, their time and our time, was wasted on questions that they had to get clarified or discuss or dance around. That's the problem with a live event that is happening right when they have a lot on their plate that they have not fully announced.

Mesanna even chided Cal for releasing more information than he should, such as the raffle stuff. He even admitted on the booster stuff that if he went further, it would give it all away or be misinterpreted or something.

I know this isn't the thread for it, but that is just not a good format for players to get answers. They needed to have the questions first so they could simply answer "we can't talk about it at this time" rather than having to decide on the spot whether they could talk about it.

Skirting RoC Rule B? Feeling dangerous are you? Seriously, what’s gotten into you? You’re generally more rational than that… Why so attacky today?

I apologize - I wasn't familiar with that, now I am, but I see people that don't understand that in a large company, there are things that are not up for debate, and it's irritating. It would be different if BioWare was treated like Blizzard/WoW. Blizzard has their own dedicated customer service for Warcraft. They have over 2500 people who are dedicated to in-game issues, out-of-game issues, working on the websites, etc just for Warcraft. Literally over 2500 people - it's their biggest department within that group.

EA does it differently. As part of their cost-cutting, they try and share resources as much as possible. From a stockholder point of view, that's good. It hurts the players though. We saw how the video diary was butchered by people outside of BioWare. There is so much that goes on, that is out of the dev teams hands.

It goes back to my point about the HOC not being a good format, because a lot of the corporate stuff really becomes obvious. Think about the fact that they have now mentioned that the graphics plan is now done and just needs to be sanitized for the public. They weren't even allowed to really talk about it two days prior to that announcement, and now we find out it's done. Just two stinkin days!

]Really, if Cal isn’t willing to go to bat for the people that he claims matter to him, he shouldn’t be producer. UO has a problem with its GM service. Ridiculous delays, and far too many brain-dead canned responses. If he’s not the one to go to for getting this fixed, who is? Or by your logic, should we just shut up and be quiet?

The problem is EA customer service in general. That's what you have to step back and see it as. It's not a UO problem, it's an EA customer service problem. I don't want to say we see it in a vacuum, but maybe it's better to say we have tunnel vision when it comes to this. We see a UO problem.

If you go to the Warhammer or Camelot forums, you could find complaints from people who wonder why the GMs aren't given really specific training for Warhammer or Camelot. They see a Warhammer or Camelot problem.

If Cal could get them to do something about the GMs, it would make his life much much easier. It would probably even cut down on threads complaining about things. It would probably reduce the number of PMs he gets.

It's a bad situation, because we saw this coming even when UO had more players. It's an EA thing, and it's frustrating. I did not have good experiences with support when I played Warhammer. I've had a mixed bag with Camelot.

I don't know what the answer is, other than complain through EA channels about the support, and hope that Star Wars does really well. Not to use a cheesy paraphrase of a quote, but Star Wars is our best hope If it takes off, then that means BioWare gets more clout within EA, and that could mean that BioWare is treated like Activision treats Blizzard. Because Star Wars represents up to and over a half a billion dollar investment by EA (if you take into account their purchase of BioWare), if it does well, and if BioWare is not happy with the GM service, things might change.

I do think it is good that UO is a part of BioWare. That means if Cal complains, he's going to be joined by the Warhammer and Camelot producers and it won't be treated as a UO problem, it'll be treated as a BioWare. Actually I'm sure they've already complained, many times.

I think the GM problems will definitely rear their heads within Star Wars. I see that coming big time. That's where I think it can get resolved. If it causes enough problems, BioWare could tell EA they want to handle it themselves, and they might be allowed to.

 

[Pandora_CoD]

You should be focusing on a UO2 with such strong feelings about this topic. I bet everything that Supreem and the rest of the devs would be rather working with a fresh new client and code.

I may be wrong here, but I had the understanding that the creator rights to UO2 were never sold to EA, they remained with Richard Garriott. Can anyone confirm?

 

[Woodsman]

I may be wrong here, but I had the understanding that the creator rights to UO2 were never sold to EA, they remained with Richard Garriott. Can anyone confirm?

Garriott owns Lord British as a trademark. He even had Lord British in Tabula Rasa. UO2 was definitely an EA project, and EA were the ones who pulled the plug.

 

[Martyna Zmuir]

I’m glad you have an inside line on exactly how EA works. All your information is an assumption. I seriously doubt there is some long chain of ‘executives’ between Cal and whoever runs the GMs.

There is no assumption about the GMs being shared with other games. There are people on this very forum that talk about being thanked for playing other games by the GMs who responded to them.

Customer service is not under BioWare, which means there is a chain - Cal would have to go up through BioWare and then over to EA proper.

Executives don't like it when you decide to skip a part of the chain, because the money does not come out of Cal's group. EA gets our payments, and they take some of that for customer service, and then they give Cal a budget.

Remember, the one time Cal ‘did’ correct the GM department (the goza issue) he was able to, after several attempts. So it’s not an impossibility.

It's not impossible to correct specific things, but it's clear that they have no say in the overall training.

We're all assuming they are actual EA employees and not contractors. If they are contractors, it's one thing for Cal to get an entry corrected in their database over the goza issue since that would be an EA database, and another thing to get involved with their training.

Wasn’t talking about GMs working on multiple games, that’s EA’s wacky issue.

And actually, last year there were job listings for GMs with Mythic in Virginia. They wanted multilingual people specifically: English, German, and something else. It’s also been floated several times that the GMs are in-house and share BioWare Mythic’s games (DAoC, UO, WAR, whatever else they may have.) Honestly, the only way to stop us all from speculating as to where the GMs are and who they are under is for Cal to tell us.

Hun, please. Their job is to please us, their paying customers. Simply shirking responsibility and publicly announcing “it’s not our problem” makes them look very, very bad. It was not only highly unprofessional, it was downright callous.

Would you rather they lie to you and say they'll look into it?

They maybe here to please us, but they are also there to please the executives who are there to please the stockholders. Cost-cutting measures like combining customer service make the stockholders happy which makes the executives happy.

Perhaps. But one would also think that they’d like to keep UO “profitable” by not driving all its subscribers away with ****-poor customer service. *shrugs* However, not doing that plays into the notion that EA is secretly trying to kill UO. Who knows.

Actually, they looked confused and shocked that the question was even asked – an expression exhibited with frightening repetition during the video.

That's up for interpretation. I took it as bitter and a topic that they didn't want to discuss. Some people saw it as sad or unhappy, others took it as not really caring. It looked like the topic bothered them either way.

As for confused, having watched the Stratics videos again, what I saw was a poorly formatted event. There is a lot on their plate, and so much of it they cannot discuss either because it's not finished or because they are not allowed to. If they had the questions up front, they could have all went through them, and we would have more quick and short answers such as "no we can't discuss that at this time, next" instead of them having to discuss it amongst themselves and it would have freed up time for more questions or longer answers.

I and some others mentioned it in the other thread:
http://vboards.stratics.com/uhall/236574-%5Bnews%5D-house-commons-video-chat.html

10-15 minutes or more of everybody's time, their time and our time, was wasted on questions that they had to get clarified or discuss or dance around. That's the problem with a live event that is happening right when they have a lot on their plate that they have not fully announced.

Mesanna even chided Cal for releasing more information than he should, such as the raffle stuff. He even admitted on the booster stuff that if he went further, it would give it all away or be misinterpreted or something.

I know this isn't the thread for it, but that is just not a good format for players to get answers. They needed to have the questions first so they could simply answer "we can't talk about it at this time" rather than having to decide on the spot whether they could talk about it.

Eh, I seriously doubt there is an EA suit deciding what they can and cannot say. That would imply EA cares about UO in a manner that’s never been obvious. Personally, I think their plans are so sketchy that they don’t want to say they are doing something in case it blows up in their faces. On the flipside of that, it shows a frightening level of unprofessionalism to be unable to set realistic deadlines and to meet them. Scope creep is one thing, but playing ostrich and sticking their head in the sand is bad, bad, bad.

The video format is horrible, no doubt about that. They would be better off if they took a bunch of questions and posted answers. Oh. Wait. They’re bad at that too. *sighs* The videos just comes across like a bad public access show hosted by teens.

Skirting RoC Rule B? Feeling dangerous are you? Seriously, what’s gotten into you? You’re generally more rational than that… Why so attacky today?

I apologize - I wasn't familiar with that, now I am, but I see people that don't understand that in a large company, there are things that are not up for debate, and it's irritating. It would be different if BioWare was treated like Blizzard/WoW. Blizzard has their own dedicated customer service for Warcraft. They have over 2500 people who are dedicated to in-game issues, out-of-game issues, working on the websites, etc just for Warcraft. Literally over 2500 people - it's their biggest department within that group.

EA does it differently. As part of their cost-cutting, they try and share resources as much as possible. From a stockholder point of view, that's good. It hurts the players though. We saw how the video diary was butchered by people outside of BioWare. There is so much that goes on, that is out of the dev teams hands.

Apology accepted.

EA is the devil. I don’t think there is anyone playing UO who thinks differently.

About the video, we’re assuming that anything Cal said about it was true. I find it hard to believe. 2.25 mins took TWO MONTHS? Then they wanted in game videos?? The clips they showed were taken from Stratics… Watchertwo made them! The fact that Mythic handed the video off to some random MMO site was a slap in the face to the players. They couldn’t be bothered to post it on the Herald, or Facebook even. Sad.

It goes back to my point about the HOC not being a good format, because a lot of the corporate stuff really becomes obvious. Think about the fact that they have now mentioned that the graphics plan is now done and just needs to be sanitized for the public. They weren't even allowed to really talk about it two days prior to that announcement, and now we find out it's done. Just two stinkin days!

Wait, what? I think I’ve missed something. Graphics plan? Do you mean the “hi-res upgrade” to the EC? The one they’ve been talking about for years, or something else?

]Really, if Cal isn’t willing to go to bat for the people that he claims matter to him, he shouldn’t be producer. UO has a problem with its GM service. Ridiculous delays, and far too many brain-dead canned responses. If he’s not the one to go to for getting this fixed, who is? Or by your logic, should we just shut up and be quiet?

The problem is EA customer service in general. That's what you have to step back and see it as. It's not a UO problem, it's an EA customer service problem. I don't want to say we see it in a vacuum, but maybe it's better to say we have tunnel vision when it comes to this. We see a UO problem.

If you go to the Warhammer or Camelot forums, you could find complaints from people who wonder why the GMs aren't given really specific training for Warhammer or Camelot. They see a Warhammer or Camelot problem.

If Cal could get them to do something about the GMs, it would make his life much much easier. It would probably even cut down on threads complaining about things. It would probably reduce the number of PMs he gets.

It's a bad situation, because we saw this coming even when UO had more players. It's an EA thing, and it's frustrating. I did not have good experiences with support when I played Warhammer. I've had a mixed bag with Camelot.

I don't know what the answer is, other than complain through EA channels about the support, and hope that Star Wars does really well. Not to use a cheesy paraphrase of a quote, but Star Wars is our best hope If it takes off, then that means BioWare gets more clout within EA, and that could mean that BioWare is treated like Activision treats Blizzard. Because Star Wars represents up to and over a half a billion dollar investment by EA (if you take into account their purchase of BioWare), if it does well, and if BioWare is not happy with the GM service, things might change.

*groans at the SW paraphrase*

I’d think that BioWare would have more clout with EA from Dragon Age and Mass Effect. *fantasizes about either game’s graphical treatment being given to UO* *drools*

I do think it is good that UO is a part of BioWare. That means if Cal complains, he's going to be joined by the Warhammer and Camelot producers and it won't be treated as a UO problem, it'll be treated as a BioWare. Actually I'm sure they've already complained, many times.

I think the GM problems will definitely rear their heads within Star Wars. I see that coming big time. That's where I think it can get resolved. If it causes enough problems, BioWare could tell EA they want to handle it themselves, and they might be allowed to.

The WAR players complain too. I’ve read their boards, those players sentiments mirror what we say on Stratics in a lot of respects… except they are allowed to swear more
If UO gets any of the SW money, even indirectly, I will be surprised. It’s more likely EA will gobble up “profits” to stave off their imminent financial ruin.

 

[Woodsman]

Honestly, the only way to stop us all from speculating as to where the GMs are and who they are under is for Cal to tell us.

I agree with that - would be nice to know. I also think that at the same time, if they were located within BioWare, it would be a lot easier to correct, because Warhammer and Camelot fans have problems with them too. If UO, Warhammer, and Camelot fans are having issues with them, then that means Star Wars fans would have issues with them.

Eh, I seriously doubt there is an EA suit deciding what they can and cannot say. That would imply EA cares about UO in a manner that’s never been obvious.

About the video, we’re assuming that anything Cal said about it was true. I find it hard to believe. 2.25 mins took TWO MONTHS? Then they wanted in game videos?? The clips they showed were taken from Stratics… Watchertwo made them!

I don't have it handy, but somebody who was very a-retentive did an analysis of the video diary we got last week, and it was really crazy the kinds of edits that were made. Somebody was cutting out a lot of stuff and in some cases the resulting segments were only a few seconds long. Supreem was only allowed to talk about the graphics for like 5 seconds, and it was literally a mention of the graphics. There were even some 2-3 second clips in that video.

Somebody really cares about what they are allowed to say.

The fact that Mythic handed the video off to some random MMO site was a slap in the face to the players. They couldn’t be bothered to post it on the Herald, or Facebook even. Sad.

They should have mentioned it on the Herald and Facebook, but handing it off to Curse.com was brilliant, so brilliant that I have to wonder whose idea it was.

Curse.com is not some random MMO site, at least not if you're into the largest MMOs. When I heard Curse.com was making it a headline article (and it finally dropped from their headlines yesterday so it hung around for a while), my first thought was that EA had to be paying them to do that. My second thought is that it was one of those bundle deals where Curse.com gets exclusives with large games, and in return has to carry other items that EA asks them to carry, such as this.

Wait, what? I think I’ve missed something. Graphics plan? Do you mean the “hi-res upgrade” to the EC? The one they’ve been talking about for years, or something else?

They posted on Facebook last night that the plan for it was written and was close to being released to the public.

Of course that goes back to what you said about UO needing to communicate things better, such as that video that Curse.com got. One of the biggest changes come to UO this year, and it's on their Facebook page and not UOHerald.com

I’d think that BioWare would have more clout with EA from Dragon Age and Mass Effect. *fantasizes about either game’s graphical treatment being given to UO* *drools*

They get plenty from those, but I think they are obsessed with WoW, maybe even more after the Warhammer debacle.

I would love to see UO get some of that treatment as well. I got my hopes when they would not answer whether they are using existing art or new art. Dragon Age 2 and Sims Medieval have just wrapped up, quite a few artists just between those two, and Dragon Age 2 is in-house.

If UO gets any of the SW money, even indirectly, I will be surprised. It’s more likely EA will gobble up “profits” to stave off their imminent financial ruin.

In theory, the BioWare head honchos would want to grow their empire. That means increasing revenue, which means investing in all of their properties within BioWare, including Camelot and UO. If they were treated like Activision treats Blizzard, they would have the clout to do that. The more they grow their other properties, the more influence they get, and the more chances EA will leave them alone.

I agree with you that EA would probably just gobble up a lot of the profits, but somebody has decided to invest some resources in UO to allow them to push the higher resolution artwork out. That all depends on whether it's new art or existing art, but if it's new art then somebody has definitely decided to invest resources in UO.

Of course, if Star Wars fails, I think BioWare would be broken up in some way. Executives aren't going to be happy that first Warhammer, and then Star Wars cost the company so much money.

 

[jaashua]

See, here is where your proposal completely breaks down. Paying more for a theoretical increase in services flies in the face of actual documented history.

Again, throwing money at UO in the vain hope that 'someone will pay more attention' has no basis in factual reality. Sorry.

Uh, ya, this entire proposal is theoretical.....like EVERY proposal is.

IF they agreed to it and stuck to it, what is wrong with the proposal?

 

[canary]

Uh, ya, this entire proposal is theoretical.....like EVERY proposal is.

IF they agreed to it and stuck to it, what is wrong with the proposal?

That you just stated earlier no one had a valid counter point, which is wrong. People are giving you facts and history and you are simply choosing to ignore it.

 

[jaashua]

somebody has decided to invest some resources in UO to allow them to push the higher resolution artwork out.

The problem is, those are not new resources. They are resources already there that otherwise would go going towards bug fixes or the next booster pack or the gold sink ideas or faction revamping or storyline development or any of the other hundreds of ideas the devs have floating around.

EC enhancements, according to the HoC are lumped in there with those things right now. And they will trickle out through mini publishes over time. At that rate, we're talking about YEARS before there is a client you could potentially show to a friend and impress him with. meanwhile, they're still managing TWO clients which slows everything down in general.

Drop everything. Absolutely everything. New Magincia can freaking wait. Gold sinks can wait. Bug fixes can wait. Put everybody on the new artwork and when it's done drop the CC, and THEN worry about Occlo and new house deco sets and PvP balance. But, frankly, if that hasn't already occurred to the UO producer, then there's not much hope that reading them on a message board forum is going to make any difference. You get a premier membership and a say in where those resources go and now you actually have some influence.

 

[canary]

The problem is, those are not new resources. They are resources already there that otherwise would go going towards bug fixes or the next booster pack or the gold sink ideas or faction revamping or storyline development or any of the other hundreds of ideas the devs have floating around.

EC enhancements, according to the HoC are lumped in there with those things right now. And they will trickle out through mini publishes over time. At that rate, we're talking about YEARS before there is a client you could potentially show to a friend and impress him with. meanwhile, they're still managing TWO clients which slows everything down in general.

Drop everything. Absolutely everything. New Magincia can freaking wait. Gold sinks can wait. Bug fixes can wait. Put everybody on the new artwork and when it's done drop the CC, and THEN worry about Occlo and new house deco sets and PvP balance. But, frankly, if that hasn't already occurred to the UO producer, then there's not much hope that reading them on a message board forum is going to make any difference. You get a premier membership and a say in where those resources go and now you actually have some influence.

Well, artists and people who do code are two separate things. You wouldn't need to hold off on the other stuff.

 

[Kiminality]

I'm finding myself agree with a lot of folk I've never agreed with before, which can mean one of two things:
1.) Dogs will live with cats, children will speak in tongues, and the world will end.
2.) This idea is really not overly burdened with an abundance of merit.

A couple of extra notes to make, while I'm here...
Players tend to make notoriously bad decisions for what's important. Look at it this way - read through Uhall and see how often you see someone wanting something that you don't agree is a priority, then imagine your priority list is the "best" or "right" list, and you'll see how "wrong" players are. Granted, "wrong" might be too strong of a word, but if they're not agreeing on the same thing, they're not going to be agreeing on the "right" dedications of resources.
Lastly, sure, Uhall has a lot of negative people. But all the cheerleaders in the world wouldn't make a bad idea good.

 

[Heartseeker]

The problem is, those are not new resources. They are resources already there that otherwise would go going towards bug fixes or the next booster pack or the gold sink ideas or faction revamping or storyline development or any of the other hundreds of ideas the devs have floating around.

EC enhancements, according to the HoC are lumped in there with those things right now. And they will trickle out through mini publishes over time. At that rate, we're talking about YEARS before there is a client you could potentially show to a friend and impress him with. meanwhile, they're still managing TWO clients which slows everything down in general.

Drop everything. Absolutely everything. New Magincia can freaking wait. Gold sinks can wait. Bug fixes can wait. Put everybody on the new artwork and when it's done drop the CC, and THEN worry about Occlo and new house deco sets and PvP balance. But, frankly, if that hasn't already occurred to the UO producer, then there's not much hope that reading them on a message board forum is going to make any difference. You get a premier membership and a say in where those resources go and now you actually have some influence.

Your thought process is delusional, and your idea stinks.

If people could actually express themselves properly here I would even swear, but alas, the Stratics police would be all over it in a heartbeat.

The reason your idea doesn't work is that EA don't give a crap about what anybody else thinks, try to remember that.....

 

[Zosimus]

Gooooood post Zos...

Ty Pandy

I may be wrong here, but I had the understanding that the creator rights to UO2 were never sold to EA, they remained with Richard Garriott. Can anyone confirm?

It was EA's and they canned the project. My idea of UO2 would be have UO the way it is but have it with Daoc client. If you remember Cotswold if anything gave me that UO feel was that. We use to have meetings on the hill side or around the campfire sometimes instead of the guild house. All our chars would sit down and be a sight to see to any passerby.

That you just stated earlier no one had a valid counter point, which is wrong. People are giving you facts and history and you are simply choosing to ignore it.

I agree 100% Canary. EA wont change and throwing them all the money in the world isnt going to improve anything.

Of course, if Star Wars fails, I think BioWare would be broken up in some way. Executives aren't going to be happy that first Warhammer, and then Star Wars cost the company so much money.

Good point Woodsman. As I even stated in an earlier post may be the thing that makes or breaks all of EA MMO's titles.


Im still waiting for a POLL jaashua Not my topic or idea.

 

[Martyna Zmuir]

I agree with that - would be nice to know. I also think that at the same time, if they were located within BioWare, it would be a lot easier to correct, because Warhammer and Camelot fans have problems with them too. If UO, Warhammer, and Camelot fans are having issues with them, then that means Star Wars fans would have issues with them.

I hate to say this, but I hope SW fans loathe the GM support if it means that UO’s level of service *might* be increased. *tries to look innocent*

I don't have it handy, but somebody who was very a-retentive did an analysis of the video diary we got last week, and it was really crazy the kinds of edits that were made. Somebody was cutting out a lot of stuff and in some cases the resulting segments were only a few seconds long. Supreem was only allowed to talk about the graphics for like 5 seconds, and it was literally a mention of the graphics. There were even some 2-3 second clips in that video.

Somebody really cares about what they are allowed to say.

Someone doesn’t necessarily means it’s an EA suit, it could very well be some “well intentioned” PR weasel with a serious lack of the big picture. Said weasel could be trying their damndest to spin the few “peppy” clips for all they’re worth, while mixing it with “stolen” footage (being metaphorical there, not literal).

Those 2.25 mins were very “Rah-rah-rah!” while being completely lacking in any substance to hang such excitement on. It sorta reminds me of the pep rallies in high school, ya know the ones put on by the perpetually coked-out-of-their-minds ‘pep squad’ and their faculty advisor who was just trying enough to look like they pretended to care… Ah, the halcyon 90’s… ;p

Plus, starting the video with a complete non-sequitur was immensely confusing for most players (unless they had been chomping at the bit for the last year…), let alone any new or prospective players.

They should have mentioned it on the Herald and Facebook, but handing it off to Curse.com was brilliant, so brilliant that I have to wonder whose idea it was.

Curse.com is not some random MMO site, at least not if you're into the largest MMOs. When I heard Curse.com was making it a headline article (and it finally dropped from their headlines yesterday so it hung around for a while), my first thought was that EA had to be paying them to do that. My second thought is that it was one of those bundle deals where Curse.com gets exclusives with large games, and in return has to carry other items that EA asks them to carry, such as this.

Hmm. Okay. So curse.com was a sly bit of backdoor marketing, or rather an attempt at it. Just too bad that video was so, so bad…

Someone’s heart was in the right place.

hey posted on Facebook last night that the plan for it was written and was close to being released to the public.

Did they remove it? I don’t see any posting on their Facebook page specifically about graphics. All I see are the posts which are also on the Herald. Were they removed? If so, that makes me sad

I would love to see UO get some of that treatment as well. I got my hopes when they would not answer whether they are using existing art or new art. Dragon Age 2 and Sims Medieval have just wrapped up, quite a few artists just between those two, and Dragon Age 2 is in-house.

Personally, I thought the graphics in DA were merely “ok.” There were some serious clipping issues and weird camera things, not to mention the people being rendered in the wrong spot for scenes. I’m hoping DA2 has that fixed.

If Mythic could use the DA/DA2, MA2/3, or even the Sims Medieval engine in place of UO’s client they could completely breathe new life into the game. Just make a camera angle that can be locked into isometric for those who want it.

Mmm… *drools again* *imagines watching Luna burn in 3D*

In theory, the BioWare head honchos would want to grow their empire. That means increasing revenue, which means investing in all of their properties within BioWare, including Camelot and UO. If they were treated like Activision treats Blizzard, they would have the clout to do that. The more they grow their other properties, the more influence they get, and the more chances EA will leave them alone.

This reminds me of an easter egg from Ultima VIII. On a shelf in Mythran’s house in a small valley sat a curious object. It would morph into a square, a triangle, and then a sphere (old EA logo). When clicked on, the Avatar would say something to the effect of: “One day, I shall learn to master this…”

I hope that BioWare is the studio that can stand up to EA’s corporate idiocy & butchery. They have a good track record for making graphically appealing, solid, popular games.

Is SW tanks, it will spell doooooooooooooooooooooooom! Here’s hoping that MA3 gets finished before that axe has the chance to fall…

 

[Woodsman]

I hate to say this, but I hope SW fans loathe the GM support if it means that UO’s level of service *might* be increased. *tries to look innocent*

I hope so as well. Star Wars is a flagship title for EA and the powers that be at the top of BioWare will have a lot sway if the support they need is not there. EA needs Star Wars to succeed badly (and we do to).

doesn’t necessarily means it’s an EA suit, it could very well be some “well intentioned” PR weasel with a serious lack of the big picture. Said weasel could be trying their damndest to spin the few “peppy” clips for all they’re worth, while mixing it with “stolen” footage (being metaphorical there, not literal).

There were some weird cuts though. Plus this is right in the middle of a huge product launch period of time for EA, and the PR types would more than likely ignore UO for Bullestorm, Dragon Age 2, and Sims Medieval - all three of those launch within a month of each other, starting a week and a half ago with Bullestorm, with Dragon Age 2 next week, following two weeks later by Sims Medieval. I'm honestly surprised they even spared anybody from PR for UO at this point. I'm also surprised that they released the video and had the HOC right before they are set to release the finished plan for the artwork. Just so many wasted opportunities right there.

Plus, starting the video with a complete non-sequitur was immensely confusing for most players (unless they had been chomping at the bit for the last year…), let alone any new or prospective players.

That goes back to what exactly was cut. I think that not only was the beginning cutting in on something that Cal was talking about, but the end was cutting him off.

Hmm. Okay. So curse.com was a sly bit of backdoor marketing, or rather an attempt at it. Just too bad that video was so, so bad…

Agreed. That was such a blown attempt at whatever they were trying - they should have waited a few more weeks and then talked about the art.

Did they remove it? I don’t see any posting on their Facebook page specifically about graphics. All I see are the posts which are also on the Herald. Were they removed? If so, that makes me sad

You have to click on the 'Read All X comments' link, but this is the quote that is still there:

#Ultima Online AJ ... Well we are working on some updates to the graphics this year. It's one of our priorities. A bit more details soon As in the doc is written, need to clean it up for public consumption
Yesterday at 4:58pm

If Mythic could use the DA/DA2, MA2/3, or even the Sims Medieval engine in place of UO’s client they could completely breathe new life into the game. Just make a camera angle that can be locked into isometric for those who want it.

UO, Camelot, and Warhammer are all using the same engine as Oblivion, Fallout 3, the recently launched Rift, and a slew of other games in that vein. The problem isn't the engine, it's the execution. It's the same engine that was used for KR, they just dropped the KR graphics with the EC.

Star Wars has an engine that was made specifically for MMOs, with some really cool abilities for designers and developers as far as working within the game world. I think though it's also server-side, and that's not going to work with UO.

I hope that BioWare is the studio that can stand up to EA’s corporate idiocy & butchery. They have a good track record for making graphically appealing, solid, popular games.

If they could do that, and become a sort of Blizzard within EA, then a lot of the things the OP wanted addressed would be addressed. Warcraft has around 4,000 people dedicated to it. That's people doing the auction house app for the iPhone, people assisting in-game, billing people, artists, designers, writers, cinematographers, developers, people licensing plushies, and just basically any associated job you could think of.

 

[jaashua]

That you just stated earlier no one had a valid counter point, which is wrong. People are giving you facts and history and you are simply choosing to ignore it.

Let me paraphrase the counterpoints.

1) We shouldn't be paying more for something we should already be getting.

Not a valid argument. We're getting what we're getting. If you aren't happy with that, then quit or start a thread complaining about it. It would matter if we had great GM support, a premier membership would just offer more icing on top of that great support. The point is, you pay more to get more.....regardless of what the base level is.

2) EA would never agree to this.

Probably. But I'm not asking EA what they think about this. I'm asking the members of this forum what they think of this from their perspective.

That's all I can find and they keep getting repeated over and over. Please point out the good arguments against this idea.

 

[Zosimus]

Let me paraphrase the counterpoints.

1) We shouldn't be paying more for something we should already be getting.

Not a valid argument. We're getting what we're getting. If you aren't happy with that, then quit or start a thread complaining about it. It would matter if we had great GM support, a premier membership would just offer more icing on top of that great support. The point is, you pay more to get more.....regardless of what the base level is.

2) EA would never agree to this.

Probably. But I'm not asking EA what they think about this. I'm asking the members of this forum what they think of this from their perspective.

That's all I can find and they keep getting repeated over and over. Please point out the good arguments against this idea.

Have you read the threads on stratics ever? People have complained over and over for years about GM service. The posts in this thread have made excellent arguments against your view. You wont accept it. Plus if your asking members of this forum like I said earlier, MAKE A POLL and ask away. You must feel your poll wont go the way you want it or you would.

Oh btw if you were really asking members of this forum and not EA then you should of rephrased your first post.....

What if UO offered another subscription level?

Players have no control over subscritpion prices. EA makes that decision. If they want to raise it then thats a players choice to continue to pay it or not.

This will never happen and I dont see why you are continuing it when many have posted against it. You wont make a poll to even have some type of % to base any numbers to back up your idea.

 

[jaashua]

The posts in this thread have made excellent arguments against your view. You wont accept it.

I can you point them out? Because I paraphrased the only two I could find. People saying the idea is dumb or has no merit isn't an argument.

 

[Spree]

Do we get a discount because we dont have an EM

 

[Davin Darkblade]

Do we get a discount because we dont have an EM

Guess that destroys their claim that all shards have an EM. I hear Formosa doesn't either?

 

[canary]

Do we get a discount because we dont have an EM

If EMs make 10 dollars on the hour, all 10 Siege players should get a dollar a month discount.













I kid, I kid. Everyone knows Siege has 11 players.

 

[Zosimus]

I can you point them out? Because I paraphrased the only two I could find. People saying the idea is dumb or has no merit isn't an argument.

Just wow is all I can say. If the game was F2P and new I could see many good points you made for a new game but UO is none of what I just mentioned. If thats what you believe go on with your make believe idea. I'm done with it. Never will it happen in UO life time.

Make a POLL if you are asking forum members which you still havent.

 

[LordDrago]

You do realize this is EA your talking about....

The extra money would most likely go towards a new game they were developing.

Obviously there need to be the stipulation that the premium over the regular price is to go solely to UO and to be divided as stated.

Easy enough to do. X dollars are "required" to go to UO? Amazing how the UO budget just got cut by Y dollars.....and X=Y.

Players pay more and budget stays the same...

A lesson from government economics...

 

[jaashua]

Just wow is all I can say. If the game was F2P and new I could see many good points you made for a new game but UO is none of what I just mentioned. If thats what you believe go on with your make believe idea. I'm done with it. Never will it happen in UO life time.

Make a POLL if you are asking forum members which you still havent.

You gain .1 in dodging. Your skill is now 97.3.

 

[jaashua]

Easy enough to do. X dollars are "required" to go to UO? Amazing how the UO budget just got cut by Y dollars.....and X=Y.

Players pay more and budget stays the same...

A lesson from government economics...

LOL. I mentioned that exact same issue earlier. From the EA side this would indeed require more than just assuring the extra dollars go to UO for the very reason you mentioned. How? I don't know. I can come up with a few ideas, but I don't know how the current budget is allocated. That's for them to worry about if they're interested.

 

[Zosimus]

You gain .1 in dodging. Your skill is now 97.3.

LOL. Whatever. EA has a PROVEN history of asking for more money for UO and FAILED not to provide the service for the increase. You fail ( or turn a blind eye to it) to see that and think that giving them more will. Plus its your idea and thread and still wont make a POLL to get a % to even argue what you think is right when many posts has said different. PM Cal if you feel so much for this idea and see what he says. Your asking 2X the amount than any game charges on subs that cant even compete with some of them let alone be known to new players.

You just gained +1 in the skill of epic fail.

Troll more...