Special move cost and secondary skills

[Connection lost]

Right now we only have 10 secondary skills that help remove mana cost on specials. For some templates this is not an issue at all as everything falls directly into place, like with a ninja stealther or bushido dexxer.
But when it comes to creating a pure dexxer of any sort, you actually have to add skills you don't even want, just to not be overwhelmed by the special move cost.

With all the secondary skills you could have utilized for versatility not offering the reduced mana cost bonus, you're severely limiting peoples choice in templates.

Let's just have a look at skills that could have been useable if they offered the lower mana cost bonus; alchemy, detecting hidden, tracking and wrestling.

If people want to have a bit better potions, let them have it without nerfing their template.
Detecting hidden and tracking should be valued the same as ninja and stealth, this way you could make anti stealthers with the same special move cost, actually challenging stealthers for once.
Wrestling just because it is a weapon skill just as much as the others, and some people might prefer to have this instead of swords/fencing/macefighting as a secondary skill with archery.

Even if my suggestions is totally out of hand, please come up with something so we can have a bit more freedom to choose when it comes to pvp templates.

 

[AzSel]

I agree, Id also like to see Chivalry added to the list.

 

[Nexus]

I can tell you one of the big issues with this, it leads to over hybridization...That leads to more balancing complications.

Granted I understand completely where you are coming from when wanting to make a "pure dexxer" but honestly what constitutes a "pure Dexxer". I'd consider Samuari "pure Dexxers" all of the benefits of Bushido are directly related to typical Dexxer skills for example. They don't allow you to travel around etc. Chiv on the other hand I wouldn't consider a "Dexxer" type skill. It allows all kinds of things you normally wouldn't associate with a warrior. Like Sacred Journey for example.

 

[Klapauc]

I dont see a problem with adding wrestling to that list.
But adding chiv could create some issues with certain templates . And then the spellweavers and necromancers would like their skills on that list to, as they are also frequently used by dexxers. And why not add healing then?

That list needs to be as short as possible, otherwise they would need to scrap that system and put a new one in place.
That said, removing stealth from that list would probably create less problems then adding a bunch of random skills to it.

 

[Connection lost]

I dont see a problem with adding wrestling to that list.
But adding chiv could create some issues with certain templates . And then the spellweavers and necromancers would like their skills on that list to, as they are also frequently used by dexxers. And why not add healing then?

Well, I only mentioned detecting hidden, tracking, alchemy and wrestling for a reason. Seeing as they're skills with little to no benefit in the first place. Adding any casting skill to the list is totally of question in my opinion, so is crafting skills and wildlife skills. Mining could be discussed though as lumberjacking already got its place.

Like I said earlier, giving people an incentive to go anti stealther instead of nerfing the stealthers themselves should be favorable. Alchemy offers a 30% bonus to potions and are much less of use than bushido or ninja in most settings. Wrestling is obviously just a weapon skill like any other, and it would offer nothing to mages anyways.

What I consider pure would be something like 120 fencing, 120 resist, 100healing, 100tactics, 100anatomy, which leaves out 180 points for whatever you want to get the lower mana cost bonus, assuming you're a fourth year vet.
Why does that skill list have to be limited to parry, poisoning, bushido and ninja? Why not detecting hidden and tracking for some variety? Why should ninja and stealth give many benefits each plus the mana cost reduction, while 180 skill points in detecting and tracking offer nothing but canceling out stealth. Doesn't quite make sense if you want to create a competetive playground where every character can have their merits.

 

[spoonyd]

I completely agree with the person starting this post. Because of the nerf to JOAT the game has become very cookie cutter and boring. There's very little variety in PvP because so many combinations are just not viable anymore due to the mana cost issues.