Stealth on production shards.

[chanshaw]

You guys should really fix this... why won't you allow stealth to work properly on production shards? What's the point of having the skill on a production shard at all? Why do you even need passive detect when there is insurance. I hope you guys seriouslly take a look at this, I mean people don't even need detect hidden.

 

[Omnius]

stealth is massively over powered, not the other way around.

 

[Ahuaeyjnkxs]

He's looking to open an argument for a classic thread, or...

J00 got tro0l3d !

 

[chanshaw]

stealth is massively over powered, not the other way around.

How is this?

 

[Ahuaeyjnkxs]

allows you to make a true surprise attack ?

 

[dukarlo]

Stealth has been fubarred for quite some time. Anyone who dies on a stealther probably doesnt have magic resist and or ninja. Anyone that even remotely knows how to use the skill can flee a fight at will even against multiple opponents with little risk..Passive detect(unless a player has the detect skill) should be gone from the game and things from the past should be reenabled to combat stealthers. Detect hidden(it currently doesnt work in addition to having the timer increased greatly), the reveal spell, auto defend while hidden and hit with area effects etc. should all be put back into the game and im not even mentioning the insta stealth after hiding that was added to the game. Most of the time its not even worth going after a stealther if you know there just going to run and stealth off. You should be able to sneak up on people but stealthing should not be a 99% guaranteed escape as it is now.

 

[chanshaw]

Stealth has been fubarred for quite some time. Anyone who dies on a stealther probably doesnt have magic resist and or ninja. Anyone that even remotely knows how to use the skill can flee a fight at will even against multiple opponents with little risk..Passive detect(unless a player has the detect skill) should be gone from the game and things from the past should be reenabled to combat stealthers. Detect hidden(it currently doesnt work in addition to having the timer increased greatly), the reveal spell, auto defend while hidden and hit with area effects etc. should all be put back into the game and im not even mentioning the insta stealth after hiding that was added to the game. Most of the time its not even worth going after a stealther if you know there just going to run and stealth off. You should be able to sneak up on people but stealthing should not be a 99% guaranteed escape as it is now.

I guess you have not tried a stealther lately. If you even stealth remotely close to someone you become revealed.

 

[Ahuaeyjnkxs]

That must be because of the new uber powers of the avatar when pumped up with l33t artifacts and is indeed, overpowered.

This is another example that the mechanics need to be revised.

To me it's another example of the effect of changing the dev team for a game so often...

but if all the oponen't items are insured anyways, whats the goal of stealth, and stealing, and whatnot...

 

[Omnius]

I have a stealth thief. I rarely get revealed. I only die if I have no reason to keep the char alive and frankly if a stealther dies it's because they suck at UO not because stealthing needs a boost.

 

[Ahuaeyjnkxs]

See... what did I tell yoU ?

 

[aarons6]

you should HAVE to have tracking over 50 to passive reveal anyone.

 

[Fayled Dhreams]

You guys should really fix this... why won't you allow stealth to work properly on production shards? What's the point of having the skill on a production shard at all? Why do you even need passive detect when there is insurance. I hope you guys seriouslly take a look at this, I mean people don't even need detect hidden.

thank you for your insight. However ...
on >production shards< there are currently higher priorities.

play on!

 

[Nexus]

I guess you have not tried a stealther lately. If you even stealth remotely close to someone you become revealed.

That's what Ninjitsu is for, you can by pass passive reveal checks with Shadowjump.

 

[Raptor85]

That's what Ninjitsu is for, you can by pass passive reveal checks with Shadowjump.

Then why is everyone complaining about stealth? sounds like it's ninjitsu that they're having the issue with.

 

[Nexus]

Then why is everyone complaining about stealth? sounds like it's ninjitsu that they're having the issue with.

Because they keep getting popped by stealth archers...Passive reveal only works if they move. Using Shadowjump or standing still counters the passive reveal check.

Basically Stealth Archer stealths into position, pops off a dismount and hits a smoke bomb hiding them again or goes into animal form to join the immediate gank fest that ensues.

Now the OP is complaining about Passive reveal, where if you take a step within a certain range of an Elf you get revealed about 85-90% of the time with them not having to invest any skill points.

Honestly there isn't a good solution to this really. If they put the nerf stick to passive reveal they only strengthen the Stealth Archers, if they put a nerf stick to Smoke bombs, and or Ninjitsu abilities they hurt honest thieves, you know the one's that don't spend all their time monkeying around with Sigils.

 

[Raptor85]

Oh, I understand Nexus, and I haven't played a thief on any shard but siege since ren, I'm just pointing out 99% of the complaints seem to be about smoke bombs, animal form, and shadow strike, which are NOT stealth (the skill). Calls to nerf stealth because of them hurts stealthers that do not use ninjitsu (I would take not many left on prodo? There were still some stealth archers like that between SE and ML launch).

What really needs to be fixed is two-fold, a severe reduction in passive reveal (make it tied to detect + tracking, no free passive reveal, and considerably decrease the reveal chance, since it's calculated per step even a "small" chance is an effective 100% over a few steps). On the same note though, smoke bombs, much like cure potions, need to have a "failure" chance, where you're noticed hiding and cannot escape, same with shadow strike (tied to the detect hidden skill of anyone targeting you). This would bring stealth back more towards it's original purpose...initially getting closer but not being able to constantly re-stealth while fighting the enemy.

 

[Omnius]

As it stands, stealth is the skill you can get the most of from items. it makes things cost less mana, it requires virtually no investment in skill points, it makes ninjitsu extremely over powering and can be used over and over again without actively using the skill.

Stealthers aren't consistently revealed when taking damage while stealthing, they often don't get revealed from poison despite multiple ticks. Hell they even made it so wither can't hit stealthers, so forget being a necro and revealing reliably.

 

[Nexus]

Hell they even made it so wither can't hit stealthers, so forget being a necro and revealing reliably.

Stealthers aren't Hit by any AoE as long as they are of the same Noto as the source... if a Red withers next to my Blue thief, I get hit... If I'm grey and a Blue withers, I get hit... Same for Conflag Pots...

The only real way to change this is.........

Remove Noto Immunity completely in Fel....

 

[Demonous]

I have a stealth thief. I rarely get revealed. I only die if I have no reason to keep the char alive and frankly if a stealther dies it's because they suck at UO not because stealthing needs a boost.

i have 120 stealth and gm hiding, i almost always get revealed stealthing past anyone, i remember years ago i was pro on chesapeake and would stealth up to people at champ spawns and harrowers and easily steal and get away with power and stat scrolls, now if i attempt to stealth into the area im revealed just for walking past them, been this way for years now and it is pretty lame

on a side note, i know what ur saying, even when im revealed its almost impossible to bring me down, i remember when there was no hp regen cap and i had 40 hp regen on my thief, those were great times, but even now with 150 hp, 18 hp regen, 120 resist, all 70s and pots, its very very difficult to kill me when i decide i don't feel like dying

 

[A Rev]

Stealthers aren't Hit by any AoE as long as they are of the same Noto as the source... if a Red withers next to my Blue thief, I get hit... If I'm grey and a Blue withers, I get hit... Same for Conflag Pots...

The only real way to change this is.........

Remove Noto Immunity completely in Fel....

Thats not true.

Certain AOE spells will hit.

EQ, Nether Cyclone, Thunderstorm,Poison Strike, Conflags, EXP pots, Supernova pots.

Wither, Essence of wind, Hail storm, Holy light do NOT.

Stealth on its own isn't OP. The Items used by stealthers are. 15 Skill points (real) is enough to get you to 100% success rate, Smoke Bombs, invis jewelry and turkey feathers.

The problem with stealth comes from the problem with hiding and its union with consumables. You should not be able to flag and insta hide...or do anything and insta hide. You should not be able to insta stealth away (quicker than you can cast EQ).

 

[A Rev]

i have 120 stealth and gm hiding, i almost always get revealed stealthing past anyone, i remember years ago i was pro on chesapeake and would stealth up to people at champ spawns and harrowers and easily steal and get away with power and stat scrolls, now if i attempt to stealth into the area im revealed just for walking past them,

Only if they are elf and then its a 40% chance.

More elves...more rolls at the 40%.

Move slow and be smart and youll be fine.

 

[Nexus]

Thats not true.

Certain AOE spells will hit.

EQ, Nether Cyclone, Thunderstorm,Poison Strike, Conflags, EXP pots, Supernova pots.

Wither, Essence of wind, Hail storm, Holy light do NOT.

So when I stand around watching blues mana dump casting EQ to reveal me, or Dance around in the Conflag flames something isn't working right? Same Noto doesn't do AoE to non-guildies from what I've seen in any circumstance... not EQ, Thunderstorm, Poison Strike, Conflag, Explode pots, etc as long as they aren't guilded to my character...

 

[Omnius]

Stealthers aren't Hit by any AoE as long as they are of the same Noto as the source... if a Red withers next to my Blue thief, I get hit... If I'm grey and a Blue withers, I get hit... Same for Conflag Pots...

The only real way to change this is.........

Remove Noto Immunity completely in Fel....

Wither doesnt hit stealthers ever anymore.

 

[KoolAidAddict]

the reveal spell

Nu uhh!!
If I didnt cast invis, casting reveal should have ZERO affect.
If you want to UNHIDE me, use the DETECT HIDDEN/TRACKING skill, equal to my HIDE/STEALTH skill, giving you say, a 50% chance of success.

Passive wasnt fair to begin with.
I think it should be a toggle.......On and you have a chance to unhide me, flagging yourself!
Off and it doesnt work.

 

[Raptor85]

Nu uhh!!
If I didnt cast invis, casting reveal should have ZERO affect.
If you want to UNHIDE me, use the DETECT HIDDEN/TRACKING skill

reveal spell effectiveness is modified by detect + tracking, at GM hide GM stealth mages with no detect can rarely reveal me.

 

[WarUltima]

Nothing beats the lamer dismount shot from stealth then instant smoke bomb then shadow jump/stealth away. Did I mention gank squad will be on your ass most likely.

 

[Nexus]

Nothing beats the lamer dismount shot from stealth then instant smoke bomb then shadow jump/stealth away. Did I mention gank squad will be on your ass most likely.

How does you getting ganked make Stealth an issue? Seems to me you should be complaining that Dismount is over powered...

 

[WarUltima]

How does you getting ganked make Stealth an issue? Seems to me you should be complaining that Dismount is over powered...

Well it goes both ways if he cant run away (insta-100% chance hide) just like me (on foot) I can at least kill him before his zerglings get me. I mean I know I am gonna die when I am on my mage and some lame newb pops out and dismount me while 5 myst mages already pre-casted 5 spell plague for me, but I can at least have a chance to bring that stealther down with me, if its not made possible to do an aggressive attack and instant /pvpoff.

Dismount itself requires the user to be on foot, thus making it easy to avoid, unless of course it's a invisible moving dismount-smoke-bombing machine.

According to your very own logic, we get the conclusion, either dismount attack is overpowered or the ability (aka hiding stealth and smokebomb) to take virtually zero risk to execute such an attack being overpowered.

Did I tick you off by revealing your everyday activity? If so I am very sorry.

 

[Nexus]

Well it goes both ways if he cant run away (insta-100% chance hide) just like me (on foot) I can at least kill him before his zerglings get me. I mean I know I am gonna die when I am on my mage and some lame newb pops out and dismount me while 5 myst mages already pre-casted 5 spell plague for me, but I can at least have a chance to bring that stealther down with me, if its not made possible to do an aggressive attack and instant /pvpoff.

Dismount itself requires the user to be on foot, thus making it easy to avoid, unless of course it's a invisible moving dismount-smoke-bombing machine.

According to your very own logic, we get the conclusion, either dismount attack is overpowered or the ability (aka hiding stealth and smokebomb) to take virtually zero risk to execute such an attack being overpowered.

Did I tick you off by revealing your everyday activity? If so I am very sorry.

Actually I don't run a Stealth Archer, I don't even carry smoke bombs on my Thief...There are easier better ways to deal people who attack me than to pop a smoke bomb.

But nerfs to Hiding/Stealth when Elves get a freebie Detect Hidden check is only going to make the Few Thieves left on Production Shards have an even worse time of it than now. Already you get the entire skill cool down timer to attempt to kill me after I try to make a steal, I couldn't use a smoke bomb during that time if I wanted too since it's subject to that delay as well. What I'm saying is make Dismount activate a Cool Down timer so they can't hide right away same as when I make a steal.

Problem Solved, and it doesn't Nerf someone else even further. That's my whole complaint about most people who say "Nerf this it's overpowered!", most don't think beyond how it effects other types of game play well beyond what the circumstance desire to see changed.

But no you aren't talking about my everyday game play... But you are asking for changes that will be extremely detrimental to it, with no regard to think about how it could effect anyone but the Stealth Archers running around, which I already pointed out I am not one of.

 

[Ahuaeyjnkxs]

wow a thread that reached a logical conclusion !

Thank you UHALL !

I didn't know you could do that, but it makes alot of sense to put a timer on it !