[Discussion] Our Moral Obligation?

[Lord Nabin]

I have been thinking about this a good bit lately and figured I would throw it out there to the rest of our community.

We have run across several items as of late which seem to have been duped, or illegally created and placed for sale. I am not saying all were placed for sale to scam someone just that they were out there

When we get further information from Mesanna and others that they will be dealt with shortly, What does out role become as a rares community?

Do you feel that we are obligated to pull the items from our vendors and sales thread to safe guard our fellow UO players?

Are we called to educate the population that hey the item looks cool but its about to be deleted so don't spend a bunch of your hard earned gold on it?

For me I feel that we should come from a place of safeguarding eachother and the greater communities out there. Why not pull the items from our vendors and hold them in reserve. We can always sell them later if the situation is rectified or demolish/turn them in if not.

Educating others about what may be being sold out their vendor malls or on their vendors would be just as important instead of coming from a place of accusation that they are scamming people.

I can tell you that even after all of these years I am still learning things about rares daily and rely on several fellow traders to help me determine what I really have when I find something. I would always appreciate a heads up on something as someone did for me when I had an ethreal cloak on a vendor at the rares fest.

What do you all think? How do you see our Moral Obligation as a Grownig Rares Community?

 

[Restless]

for the most part this community seems to be very helpful to others in regards to questionable items, it was no secret at the last rares fest that the ethy clothing was going to be reverted, however many people with those items simply dont want to hear it and become aggressive and angry about it... there are some that do get a piece of info like that and try to sell the items off which seems a lot like insider trading to me... i believe this community is quite moral and helpful, however in such a market there are some who simply follow one idea "The Creed is Greed"

 

[Omnius]

I've found that most people adhere to the "creed is greed" mentality but state otherwise.

As an IDOCer, the creed is sell as fast as I can so all my houses don't get full.

 

[ohmyGED]

I've found that most people adhere to the "creed is greed" mentality but state otherwise.

THIS.

 

[Lord Nabin]

I think the original Question is much more interesting. Let's stick to that otherwise I feel you are just out Trolling.

When we get further information from Mesanna and others that they will be delt with shortly, What does out role become as a rares community?

Do you feel that we are obligated to pull the items from our vendors and sales thread to safe guard our fellow UO players?

Are we called to educate the population that hey the item looks cool but its about to be deleted so don't spend a bunch of your hard earned gold on it?

For me I feel that we should come from a place of safeguarding eachother and the greater communities out there. Why not pull the items from our vendors and hold them in reserve. We can always sell them later if the situation is rectified or demolish/turn them in if not.

Educating others about what may be being sold out thier vendor malls or on thier vendors would be just as important instead of comming from a place of accusation that they are scamming people.

 

[ohmyGED]

Educating others about what may be being sold out thier vendor malls or on thier vendors would be just as important instead of comming from a place of accusation that they are scamming people.

I agree. But when you educate someone on an item stating that it is common....or illegal....or what have you....and the person choose to ignore it....you have to just sit back and wonder what they are really up to.

If people want to know about an item, they should take the time to research and ask around. If you want to be a good buyer or a noble seller...do the same to ensure that your intentions are following this moral obligation.

There is no "role" with this "community", if you even want to call it that....it's a collection of people with similar interests, which happens to be rare items. Anyone can choose what they want to do here, as long as it is within the ToS.

As interesting as it would be to see, you can tell everyone to pull specific items off a vendor, but whether they do it or not, is up to them.

Imagine if the UO Rare Collector Forum went *poof* --- what would you do then to appraise an item? Learn about an item? Hit a larger player base?

Take that approach, if you really want to make an impact.

 

[AND3R]

Rares: Questionable or Legit?

Everyone has their own responsability to protect themselves from scams.
A community endeavor to inform the public about questionable items/sales
will provide a resource of information for those who dont know about these items to make informed decisions.

Regardless if you support a morale community role or not, its already formed just by this post and several other similar posts in the past.

Nabin gives good advice about the vendors and what should be done - BUT -
as a buyer only you have the choice to make a safe decision.

The one piece of advice I would add in:
If it seems to good to be true - it most likely is.

Do your homework before you buy that rare.

 

[ohmyGED]

Rares: Questionable or Legit?

Everyone has their own responsability to protect themselves from scams.

The one piece of advice I would add in: If it seems to good to be true - it most likely is.

Do your homework before you buy that rare.

Period.

[/thread]

 

[Omnius]

There is no moral obligation but the one of the seller to do what he believes to be correct and for the buyer to do what he believes is correct.

Much of the behavior on these forums is what deters folks from the elitist behavior of rares collecting. I am against museums. I find they ruin the intended purpose of many items and are to some extent immoral.

Clothing should be worn, items should be placed in a scene appropriate to the item, or that uses the item creatively. There can be little worse than great looking art being squirreled away in some museum where its true value as deco or a functioning item is lost.

Items are valued by what the buyer and seller agree to. many items for sale here are not even close to being rare, many rares are rejected by this "community."

I think sometimes people need to get off their high horses and self perceived high ground. Sometimes it's like a neighborhood association where people talk behind your back and conspire against you because you didn't show up for the local blah blah drive.

 

[Derium of ls]

If the seller KNOWS the item is illegal to own, or that it will be deleted. I think they should let it be known to the buyer.

I think all of us 'accept' that most of the old school rares we buy are duped, so we must adjust to that. If we know an item is duped should we sell it? I'd say that's probably okay to do. Because they are still in demand and most likely safe items.

true buyers need to do their research, but with so many rare items out there now, it's next to impossible to find the info you're looking for.

Hell, people STILL deny things as monthly spawning items... hard to get correct information when even rare collectors deny things from 13 years ago.

 

[Omnius]

If the seller KNOWS the item is illegal to own, or that it will be deleted. I think they should let it be known to the buyer.

Indeed. That is the sellers personal moral obligation.

 

[Lord X]

I am against museums. I find they ruin the intended purpose of many items and are to some extent immoral.

Clothing should be worn, items should be placed in a scene appropriate to the item, or that uses the item creatively. There can be little worse than great looking art being squirreled away in some museum where its true value as deco or a functioning item is lost.

Hmmm. Most museums are open to the public. I think that provides more true value then someone having a rare rock in his private fel house that no one can get in. Most rare collectors like to show what they have, I think. Whether that be in their museum or on their paperdolls. If something is useful, people for the most part use it if they can. Take a real Gladiators collar for example. Theres one on my shard right now and a PK uses it on a char of his. Same thing with a real Ari robe.

 

[Derium of ls]

Hmmm. Most museums are open to the public. I think that provides more true value then someone having a rare rock in his private fel house that no one can get in. Most rare collectors like to show what they have, I think. Whether that be in their museum or on their paperdolls. If something is useful, people for the most part use it if they can. Take a real Gladiators collar for example. Theres one on my shard right now and a PK uses it on a char of his. Same thing with a real Ari robe.

I own a private 'museum', but that is because items I collect may or may not get deleted on sight

but i do agree with you, museums are a good thing. Take glowing Orb on Ls, it has the biggest collection of event items that no one else has seen... many of them NO ONE can tell us where they came from. If these were in private collectors hands, then we wouldn't even know they were there.

 

[lupushor]

Morality is not negotiable. It is not something you have in some situation and ignore in others. One's level of morality would apply in the same degree for each case it presents. So i think our moral obligation towards the items in question is the same as for any other case (duped items, shady traders, fake rares).
I feel that this community has a strong moral conduct despite scarce naughty switches the Universe had no use for anywhere else and forgot them here. This community is reliable and has a good system to promote important information.

 

[Apetul]

I think that provides more true value then someone having a rare rock in his private fel house that no one can get in.

Sorry but this is funny, since you have a private fel castle with rares on it

 

[ohmyGED]

I'm the first one to admit it:

1. I've taken advantage of those who are either niave or greedy.
2. I do not lie about it
3. I do not trade unfairly, and if requested, can trade respective to the seller's wishes...

I.E --- there are a bunch of people that think I'm just completely shady...and that's fine. However, there are many members that have dealt with my personally, and would continue to do business as needed.

It is always the buyer and seller's preference. As stated before, it's your morals and obligations, not anyone elses. If someone wants to go parade around stating information about items, that's fine.....but it does not necessarily mean that it is correct.


Ironically, this reminds me of a scene from The Negotiator --- Kevin Spacey is a hostage negotiator in the movie trying to talk down Samuel L. Jackson (another hostage negotiator who just took people hostage to prove his innocence after being framed for killing his partner):

When they are talking, Samuel L. talks to Spacey about his favorite movies, and he starts talking about Westerns....and specifically Shane. Spacey replies:

"It's interesting that you pick one where the hero dies"

Samuel L. Jackson has a different interpretation, because at the end of the movie, Shane is surrounded and slumped over....which can leave interpretation that he may or may not be alive.

Jackson: "What are you talking about? He doesn't die. He rides off into the sunset, and that kid says "Come back, Shane!"

Spacey: "That's a common misconception, in the last frame he's slumped over on his horse."

Jackson: "So he was slumped, slumped don't mean dead"

Jackson: "What, are you some sort of History buff"

Spacey: "Yes, histories and documentries mostly"


And here's where I will tie this into us as rare collectors, game players, life in general:

Jackson: "Don't believe everything you read"

Spacey: "I don't. I didn't just say I read one book. I read many on a subject, get the facts, and come up with my own conclusion"


With anything, you are responsible for educating yourself, finding facts and drawing your own conclusions.

Don't beleive everything at face value unless it is a proven fact. Facts are concrete. They are undisputed.

 

[Lord X]

Sorry but this is funny, since you have a private fel castle with rares on it

Rofl. Well yes, but I just have a few that I myself have gotten. Not museum worthy.