I'm taking bets.....

[Jirel of Joiry]

That EA is about to sunset UO.

Let's add things up shall we:

1) No more phone support for UO. We have to use the live chat thing.

2) The in game support contact system has been broken since the 3rd (that I know of ) and they don't seem like they are going to fix it.

3) This lovely conversation...I used the stupid live chat thing I got some deco crap stuck inside the wall of my keep and paging system is still not working.

Kate: Hi, my name is Kate. How may I help you?

D**** ******: hi

D**** ******: I was wondering when the GM paging system for Ultima Online will be fixed?

D*********: Currently we cannot reach a GM, and have no other way but the in game paging system.

Kate: please let me know your issue in brief

D*********: We can not reach in game support in Ultima Online. The system used to contact in game support is broken.

D*********: It is the ONLY way Ultima Online play have of getting in game support.

D*********: sorry players

Kate: may I know from how long you are facing the issue ?

D*********: The "pages" as they are called are not going through, when you "page" a game master (in game support) the inital "page" is sent. Then you are supposed to receive messages telling you what number you are in in queue. After 3 hours I never receive and message or heard from AGame Master

D*********: Since Febuary 3,2011

D*********: I contacted phone support so that could notify the appropriate person or persons. I was then told that EA is no longer supporting Ultima Online. I then called the phone number in Redwood City they said there had been a server crash on Feb 2, 2011 and that it effected numerous games in game support but it would be fixed soon

Kate: The issue you are facing seems to be complicated. The best thing I can do for you is I can escalate this issue to my Senior support department. Our senior support they will contact you through email system. Your patience is highly appreciated.

Kate: our senior support member will co-ordinate with you through email within 24 to 48 hours

Kate: is this okay for you ?

D*********: Well the whole game has NO in game support atm...I would think it would be a bit more pressing? Or does EA not care about Ultima Online? Or is it that EA is getting ready to sunset Ultima Online?

D*********: atm= at the moment

Kate: it may be

D*********: Seriously??? Cause I think that player who have been playing Ultima Online for 13 years could have a bit more a heads up than that....I mena just turning off all support with no warning or announcement?

D*********: sorry I meant players

D*********: Is there anyway you could find out?

D*********: I called myself trying to help so that you all knew it was broken so you could fix it. But I'm begining to feel as if I "stepped in horse manure" but everyone's telling me its only snow. If you get what I'm saying.

Kate: I would suggest you that when our senior support will contact you

Kate: at that time you can share your whole issue from them

Kate: okay

D*********: Okay so I can expect an email what Monday or Tuesday?

D*********: Well if you spent 78 dollars a month on a Online Game wouldn't you be concerned too?

Kate: our senior support member will co-ordinate with you through email within 24 to 48 hours

D*********: okay thank you

Kate: Thank you for giving me an opportunity to assist you regarding your issue. You will be receiving a Survey shortly in your email. I will appreciate if you can take out some time and mention if I was of any help to you.

Kate: I am sure you have some time for it

Kate: Thank you for contacting to me at Electronic Arts.

Have a nice day !

Bye ! "smile"

And finally ....Back before Christmas We had a in game a event and it was one of those massive spawn kind of things. Well neither I nor my sister could stay connected to the Legends server, kept losing connection. We were both flusterated. We have a hi-speed internet conn and computers more than adequate for handling UO. My little sister in disgust after losing connection for the 10th time called EA support. Since the phone sits between our computers on our desk she hit speaker so we both could listen. We explained what was going on and that it wasn't only us we had several of our UO friends in AIM and they could not stay logged in either. after listening sympathetically he saif he'd pass it on to the tech support people. Then he shocked the daylight out of both of us....he gave us a 180 day time code!
We are both greatful for the the time code, but it also bothers me a little that they'd give away 6 months of gametime just like that. I have the email and can post if yall'd like to see it.

Call me crazy and file this under "Yet another sky is falling post" but something just doesn't feel right to me.

 

[Alvinho]

i bet 20M as i just got a gm to react on Great Lakes not even 5 minutes ago

 

[HD2300]

It could be.

I dont think they sold many copies of High Seas. Seriously who cares about fishing and pirate ships. If it wasnt for the storage bonus I dont think they would have sold more than 1000 copies.

 

[Jirel of Joiry]

i bet 20M as i just got a gm to react on Great Lakes not even 5 minutes ago

Wow! :bowdown: My page didn't even go throught and I got stupid Christmas fireflies stuck IN my keep wall! Okay maybe they hate me or maybe I'm nutz.

I dont know.

 

[Fayled Dhreams]

UO has been in zombie mode for quite a while ...

Dead for all intents and puposes ... EXCEPT for the efforts of a true believer/priest ...

Mark Jacobs "the ressurectionist"

You just a little slow on the uptake ...

Uo was "combined" into mythic
Mythic is being combined into Bioware (Re-named BioWare Mythic)

And until we get the "thirty day" notice here(You AGREED to review the Agreement on the Web Site periodically to become aware of such revisions) or a mention of prior scheduling here

The sky and sun that are never seen in UO ...
Remain in their rightful place ...

crazy lady ...

no bet by the way ... not likely you
A) can cover the bet
B) not likely you'll pay
C) UO (above) was already sunset-ed ONCE ...
D) short selling UO is ... distasteful
E) WOW did not kill UO ... NOTHING (external) likely ever will
F) UO survived the one likely "UO Killer" ... Darkfall (Long, LONG LONG time thought to be vaporware ... *blip* went online)
G) ROC denied golf point
H) the horses are not actually "talking" to you.

 

[Longforge]

Here's my bet...

That after 12 years of playing that.... I've seen post after post of how this game is going to be "sunsetted"!

25m!!!!

 

[Jirel of Joiry]

UO has been in zombie mode for quite a while ...

Dead for all intents and puposes ... EXCEPT for the efforts of a true believer/priest ...

Mark Jacobs "the ressurectionist"

You just a little slow on the uptake ...

Uo was "combined" into mythic
Mythic is being combined into Bioware (Re-named BioWare Mythic)

And until we get the "thirty day" notice here(You AGREED to review the Agreement on the Web Site periodically to become aware of such revisions) or a mention of prior scheduling here

The sky and sun that are never seen in UO ...
Remain in their rightful place ...

crazy lady ...

no bet by the way ... not likely you
A) can cover the bet
B) not likely you'll pay
C) UO (above) was already sunset-ed ONCE ...
D) short selling UO is ... distasteful
E) WOW did not kill UO ... NOTHING (external) likely ever will
F) UO survived the one likely "UO Killer" ... Darkfall (Long, LONG LONG time thought to be vaporware ... *blip* went online)
G) ROC denied golf point
H) the horses are not actually "talking" to you.

ROTFLMAO...thank you Fayled I needed a good laugh!

 

[Martyna Zmuir]

Its doubtful that EA would "sunset" the only MMO that has ever made a profit. Even though it is 13yo, they have yet to publish any MMO that has been able to capture any "significant" market share.

DAoC = mantainence mode
WAR = DoA
SWG = Circling the drain
SWTOR = May cost more than it can ever hope to recoup.

UO has produced 1 expansion and 1 booster in the last 16 months. While the Dev Team isn't the most efficient tool in the shed, its not quite worn out yet.

Plus, they would be patently stupid to axe the game right after winning an award... I hope.

 

[Uvtha]

UO will go f2p before it closes down, so I wouldn't worry. It's still got quite a bit of time left, even if the most dire predictions be true.

 

[unified]

You've been spending a lot of time and created several threads, like a madman, posting against all aspects of UO's customer services or lack thereof. In one of your posts, you stated that you were beginning to question your sanity. Well, what's the answer?

 

[popps]

It could be.

I dont think they sold many copies of High Seas. Seriously who cares about fishing and pirate ships. If it wasnt for the storage bonus I dont think they would have sold more than 1000 copies.

Well, a shard I play is FULL of new High Seas ships....

Whether Tokunos, Gargoyles or Orc ships there is quite a number of them.

Not sure if this is on all shards but shows to me quit a few players did buy the booster.....

 

[Woodsman]

Its doubtful that EA would "sunset" the only MMO that has ever made a profit. Even though it is 13yo, they have yet to publish any MMO that has been able to capture any "significant" market share.

It's doubtful they would sunset it so close to the 15 year anniversary.

It's free media attention.

There is no way they won't milk the 15th anniversary for all its worth, because there is just too much money to be made off of nostalgia. They'll probably try and get players who left to come back as well.

Now will UO make it to the 16th? I doubt it. They may get a little bump for a few months around the anniversary, but unless they do some things to attract new players and not just returning players it's a matter of time.

I'm one of those people who has been hearing that it would be closed ever since the late '90s and didn't believe it and ignored the chicken littles. I just came back after a 5 year break and I can't believe how many tower spots I've come across on shards that used to be incredibly busy.

Booster packs are not going to bring in the new players. They'll carry the game along to the 15th anniversary, and I'm sure EA will have some huge mega-pack of home decor and items to sell to people that is focused on 1997 UO, but after that, I doubt it.

If I heard UO devs/staff out there with solid plans to grow the user base with new users, that would be a different story. When I heard about the booster packs, they interested me, but at the same time it was pretty clear that UO was definitively going into some kind of maintenance mode. That's not the fault of the devs, that's the bean counters at EA and the executives. What needs to happen is EA needs to pick one client and go with it. Don't divide resources. Update the artwork.

It's a shame, because having known a lot of game developers over the years, including plenty of UO devs, with all of the pancakes about Cal, etc., I believe the reality is that Cal and everybody else associated with UO cares a lot about it.

This is not directed towards you Martyna Zmuir, but I hear people complaining about the devs, producer, etc. and acting like the EA emplyees working on UO don't care about UO.

They do care, if only because it's their job, it's a crappy economy, and EA has shown that it has no problem killing off games, projects, studios, teams, etc., or whittling them down to nothing.

Nobody wants to lose their job these days. If Cal and the devs aren't able to keep us buying stuff and keep us paying the monthly fees, they are out of a job.

Anybody who thinks that Cal and the devs wants to lose their job in this economy is an idiot, or has never had the misfortune of losing their job in a lousy economy. It's happened to me, and there is nothing that compares to getting that little jolt of fear down your spine when you realize that you're going to have to scale all of your expenses back as far as you can while you desperately start looking for another job. Those who are supporting families and children are especially fearful of losing their jobs.

The anger should be directed at EA. EA is the one who sets the budgets and EA probably interferes on some level more than we realize, even if it's simply to say "you better keep bringing in X amount of money every year while being able to only spend Y amount of money" and having worked for large corporations, you can damn well bet that Y is a lot less than X.

 

[Vor]

DAoC = mantainence mode
WAR = DoA
SWG = Circling the drain
SWTOR = May cost more than it can ever

EA owns SWG? Since when? It was SOE (Sony) who owns it I thought.

 

[Flutter]

1) Phone support works fine. Sorry if you got a bad CSR but that doesn't mean that it doesn't exist.

2) Paged a GM yesterday with no problem.

3) You used live chat for something they can't help you with. What do you expect?

 

[Petra Fyde]

To cut through some of the scaremongering and half truths.

EA does not support uo DIRECTLY. It does it through Mythic, where a small team of very dedicated people work what most would consider unacceptable hours pretty much 7 days per week.

I think we need some better contact information because, as we've seen from Jirel's experience, if you contact the wrong people you get the wrong answer. I have emailed Cal about this problem.

We are aware that there have been some problems with Legends shard. Lack of daily maintenance, plants not growing, unavailable to transfer to - and I think we must add to that list, no GM support. All part and parcel of the same problem I'm guessing. Which I have reason to believe will be rectified very shortly.

I could post the 'chicken little' picture again if that would help?

 

[Lord Gareth]

Had no problem getting GM responses and using the support system this entire year. Just used it last week.....not sure whats up on your end.

 

[Flutter]

To cut through some of the scaremongering and half truths.

EA does not support uo DIRECTLY. It does it through Mythic, where a small team of very dedicated people work what most would consider unacceptable hours pretty much 7 days per week.

I think we need some better contact information because, as we've seen from Jirel's experience, if you contact the wrong people you get the wrong answer. I have emailed Cal about this problem.

We are aware that there have been some problems with Legends shard. Lack of daily maintenance, plants not growing, unavailable to transfer to - and I think we must add to that list, no GM support. All part and parcel of the same problem I'm guessing. Which I have reason to believe will be rectified very shortly.

I could post the 'chicken little' picture again if that would help?

Thank you. It's annoying the crap out of me.
I had a GM come, in person, just yesterday.
BTW Kudos to GM Akemai he (or she idk) did a fantastical job. (you can look up the name on the Catskills shard if you don't believe me Legendary Tinkering FTW!)

 

[old gypsy]

I try to keep a positive mindset regarding the future of UO, but once in a while I wonder, too, how much time is left. I even had a dream (nightmare?) about it, where EA opened up a classic free-to-play shard and then shut down the rest.

 

[NewThunder]

Its doubtful that EA would "sunset" the only MMO that has ever made a profit. Even though it is 13yo, they have yet to publish any MMO that has been able to capture any "significant" market share.

DAoC = mantainence mode
WAR = DoA
SWG = Circling the drain
SWTOR = May cost more than it can ever hope to recoup.

UO has produced 1 expansion and 1 booster in the last 16 months. While the Dev Team isn't the most efficient tool in the shed, its not quite worn out yet.

Plus, they would be patently stupid to axe the game right after winning an award... I hope.

SWG was/is a Sony Entertainment game, the units sold would indicate that a profit was made. The game is currently subscriber challenged, probobly becuase they have done several major re-developements that lost players in droves each time.

The current cost of SWTOR is exceeding 300 million, they have announced they will need to maintain 500,000 subscribers to recuop their investment. The 300 million figure to me indicates they are serious about the game and will make sure it will be accepted, I believe they will sell 1.5 million units at Launch and maintain 800,000 subscribers at 1 year out. From all that I have read the game will have some very new and intersting game play, I am looking forward to trying it.

 

[Aurelius]

EA does not support uo DIRECTLY. It does it through Mythic, where a small team of very dedicated people work what most would consider unacceptable hours pretty much 7 days per week.

But therein lies the heart of the problem ....

The people who care about and work on the game (even if we don't agree with their approach or 'vision' at times) do not have any genuine control over the investment, support systems, or most of the big-level 'management' of the game. Lumping in UO support with the overall EA customer support system is stupid, it gets us a lot of uninformed people who are operating on a model designed to support one-off sales of a game floundering when trying to support something different. It gets worse when they start looking and see it is not an integral part of the EA structure, but is run by some offshoot they know little about - it's so far outside their world of the 'usual' support they give they fall into speculation, guesswork and sheer confusion.

Going back into the past, EA have even at times admitted they did not know how exactly to manage UO, since it was so different from their standard model of 'managing' a game - but they never actually take the full step and let go of managing to someone who can.... they brought in Mythic precisely to do that, they claimed, and promptly (mainly out of fear of losing 'control') swamped the Mythic team with EA processes, procedures, structures and red tape.

What's needed is for some of the senior folks at EA to finally get a grip on what they know, but lack the backbone to put into practice - UO is different, their style fails to get anything like the best out of it, and they need to let a self contained, properly resourced unit who know how to do the job get on with it without the dead hand of a set of 'ship and forget' managers with no grasp of anything apart from 'units sold per week' to get out of the damn way.....

Hell will freeze over before the senior end of EA allow that - makes them look to have 'failed', makes them look incompetent, takes away some of their precious little empire and dents egos too much. Thing is, as far as UO is concerned, they have failed, they have been incompetent, their 'empire' is beyond their limited ability to manage and their egos are not worth a damn to anyone but themselves.

 

[Viper09]

Oh geeze. Not one of fhese threads again... UO isn't dieing anytime soon. These reasons you list, pointless. Nothing new. Look at how old this game is, how many times we have thought it doomed. As mentioned prior. It will go f2p before it kicks the bucket.

 

[Sevin0oo0]

, where a small team of very dedicated people work what most would consider unacceptable hours pretty much 7 days per week.

I'd disagree, they've already been sued (and lost) for labor violations once and had to pay out 13? million. I doubt they'd try to not compensate them again. I think some of the team are doing a bit on their own time, and when they feel like it, but not mandatory (like the old days).
But yes, I believe most of them Do care, because of the pride they have in the work they do

And to the OP:
>> Kate: I am sure you have some time for it
hahaha, she was professional to the end, then blew it

 

[Vlaude]

And to the OP:
>> Kate: I am sure you have some time for it
hahaha, she was professional to the end, then blew it

I caught that too. It was actually a pretty good dig and I usually don't find humor in that sort of thing. Gotta love it.

 

[canary]

EA does not support uo DIRECTLY. It does it through Mythic, where a small team of very dedicated people work what most would consider unacceptable hours pretty much 7 days per week.

If you indeed know this (outside of Mesanna's own schedule and crunch time on boosters) please share with the group, because at this moment and time I'm calling BS that you actually have solid facts.

 

[Cirno]

If you indeed know this (outside of Mesanna's own schedule and crunch time on boosters) please share with the group, because at this moment and time I'm calling BS that you actually have solid facts.

I'm sure it was in one of Jirel's previous posts this last day or so.
The EA support people themselves said that they only directly handle account management things, whereas any game related problems are handled by Mythic.

Oh, and I appear to have forgotten half of your post, so here comes an edit.
The developers are regularly active outside of office hours, not limited to Logrus spending a fair amount of time in IRC while doing the aforementioned work.

 

[Uvtha]

It's doubtful they would sunset it so close to the 15 year anniversary.

It's free media attention.

There is no way they won't milk the 15th anniversary for all its worth, because there is just too much money to be made off of nostalgia. They'll probably try and get players who left to come back as well.

I doubt highly that there will be much whoopla about the 15th anny at all outside of in game. Prolly be similar to the 10th: a return to brit event, and some in game items. They certainly wont throw a press conference or something...

Now will UO make it to the 16th? I doubt it. They may get a little bump for a few months around the anniversary, but unless they do some things to attract new players and not just returning players it's a matter of time.

I'd bet UO will see 20. Once it no longer has enough subscribers to be profitable, which I still think its quite some ways off since they need very few players to be quite profitable, they will just open it up to f2p, which will extend the life span by a year at very minimum.

 

[GalenKnighthawke]

Oh geeze. Not one of fhese threads again... UO isn't dieing anytime soon. These reasons you list, pointless. Nothing new. Look at how old this game is, how many times we have thought it doomed. As mentioned prior. It will go f2p before it kicks the bucket.

Many years ago, I did some moderately extensive research on UO's Usenet Newsgroup. (No one paid attention, I'm sad to say.)

One of my most remarkable finds, though, was a prediction of UO's imminent death......Approximately one month after its launch. The issue back then? The ferry from Skara Brae to the mainland wasn't operative. They'd promise it would be before launch, you see.

Over a dozen years later, here we are.

UO's customer service has been beneath the industry standard since there was an industry standard to compare it to. Granted it may be worse now, as EA appears to have taken customer service under its direct wing but neglected to tell more than 10 people within its organization that it had done so. And there are less and less good stories to counteract the bad ones. But overall the service has always been poor to one degree or another.

One day, UO may well die and then the people who have been predicting its death for 13+ years will ridiculously take this as an indication that they were right all along. It just took reality 13 years to catch up, I guess.

-Galen's player

 

[GalenKnighthawke]

EA does not support uo DIRECTLY. It does it through Mythic

Please explain, then, why when you call EA's customer support telephone number you get two Mythic games (DAoC and WHO) on the option, but not UO.

As far as I can tell without inside information, what's happened is that UO's fallen into a weird black hole. EA let Origin run it directly for years, with what appears to have been minimal central input, then brought it home but didn't know what to do with it. EA then put it to Mythic, and while Mythic may be more than happy to claim credit for the profit UO makes, UO wasn't Mythic's baby the way DAoC and WHO are.

To the degree to which I'm right, customer service, or its lack, is merely the most-visible sign of this dynamic, with EA and Mythic playing the "wicked stepfather" role, caring for the child on a basic level but letting it languish in other, important ways.

And I suspect very strongly there's other things going on that none, or few, of us know about that further illustrates and reflects this dynamic. Want to bet that the state of the game video has been languishing in part because someone at EA proper has to approve it, and they've let it sit there for weeks, untouched, simply because they aren't smart enough to realize how important UO's steady revenue stream is to EA?

None of this matters, of course. Those who think everything is fine will think everything is fine, and those who think UO's death is imminent will think its death is imminent, regardless of any intervening facts or reasonable inferences.

*shrugs*

-Galen's player

 

[Uvtha]

Want to bet that the state of the game video has been languishing in part because someone at EA proper has to approve it, and they've let it sit there for weeks, untouched, simply because they aren't smart enough to realize how important UO's steady revenue stream is to EA?

UO's revenue stream isn't important to EA. If we had... 10x the player it might get on the radar. They lost like 1+ billion dollars last year.

 

[Tinsil]

You just made at thread yesterday that said EA told you one of their few profitable games is UO.. You also tolled someone who questioned you to stop trolling.. Take your own advice.

 

[Petra Fyde]

No I don't have solid facts, just observations.

 

[Woodsman]

I doubt highly that there will be much whoopla about the 15th anny at all outside of in game. Prolly be similar to the 10th: a return to brit event, and some in game items. They certainly wont throw a press conference or something...

They may not throw a press conference, but somebody at EA is going to realize that free publicity from the gaming media + some nostalgia booster pack will bring in some money. Given EA's financial issues, they will milk any free publicity they can get.

I'd bet UO will see 20. Once it no longer has enough subscribers to be profitable, which I still think its quite some ways off since they need very few players to be quite profitable, they will just open it up to f2p, which will extend the life span by a year at very minimum.

Between 2003 and 2008, UO lost 70% of the subscriptions. Now I don't think between 2012 and 2017 they'll lose 70% of the remaining 75,000 or so subscribers, since the people who are left are pretty die-hard, along with the bumps they get from returning players like me who pop in every now and then, do the upgrades, and then pop out, but I can't see how they can keep those 75,000 around over the next 6 years.

Their costs on the hardware/bandwidth side are much cheaper than in 1997, 2002, 2007, etc., and based on some EA job postings I've considered, it wouldn't surprise me if they were running some sort of virtualization in their data center(s) allowing them to really save costs by sharing hardware between shards. With far fewer players in 2011 versus 2003, the server overhead has gone down along with overall costs even while processing power has gone way up. That helps keep costs down tremendously and just as importantly, it keeps them from being in a situation of having to close shards at certain subscription points, since a low population shard could be sharing hardware with a more busy shard.

As we get closer and closer to the 20th anniversary, the number of EA execs who were around for UO's start and for the Origin years, and who would push to save UO if it gets close to losing money are going to dry up. Mark Jacobs may have bragged about publicly saving UO, but Mark Jacobs is no longer in the employment of EA, and he was in the unique position of coming over from Mythic. There are still executives who have UO under them, and they will fight to keep it going if only because their job relies on it, it just depends on how high up they are. I don't think any are high enough up to keep it going if it flirts with becoming unprofitable.

I hope it's around in 6 years, and I hope EA sees the 15th anniversary next year as something more than a way to cash in on a nostalgia booster pack, but they've got to bring in new players. F2P does not solve the client problems.

 

[Fayled Dhreams]

They may not throw a press conference, but somebody at EA is going to realize that free publicity from the gaming media + some nostalgia booster pack will bring in some money. Given EA's financial issues, they will milk any free publicity they can get.

Yeah ... well written and reasoned post by the way ... anyways
Yeah ... Ya THINK that would be the way of it ...
but ... it(ea) is just as likely to "quietly" take the award ... and NOT draw attention to the game itself ..
just a sec ...
It IS nice to "get awards" ... but then ya gotta consider what "the public" will see if they go and take a look ...
It ain't gonna be a grand king on a throne holding court ... now is it?
It'll be the creepy old aunt with bedsores and cats in the basement apartment ...

ya know?

As for the "money part" ... re: longevity
Holding the Guiness spot /would could be worthwhile/ to run UO at a deficit ...
(without fixing the bugs) Kinda a "Live museum" exhibit ...
I have an old 8080 motherboard/system ... monochrome no less ... with a handset-cradle and rotary phone ... maxed to 640k mainboard memory
It's right between the old crank phone(intercomm to garage/working) and the "portable"(luggable) phonograph (Similar to photo)

...
See ... thing is ... :: as long as it IS "live" ... every day is another day On The Record.

and IF UO makes the error(my estimation ... yeah yeah) of going F2P ...
THEN freesharders would potentially keep the game live forever ... Regardless of EA's participation/existence ...
See ... once ya change the subscription "model" ... FS's would be on >equal footing< to claim "ownership/rights" ...
Kinda like a never ending cricket match ...
Or a pogo stick endurance record ...

heh! yep!
UO could conceivably outLive EA ...

just saying.

 

[Uvtha]

They may not throw a press conference, but somebody at EA is going to realize that free publicity from the gaming media + some nostalgia booster pack will bring in some money. Given EA's financial issues, they will milk any free publicity they can get.

*Shrug* Maybe so, but history has offered no indication of this being a sure fire thing. 10th anny one would imagine would have been a big deal, as it was a mmo first, but very little was said or done about it. 5 years later, the game is 5 years deader, and I really don't thinks theres any resason to expect anything special.

Between 2003 and 2008, UO lost 70% of the subscriptions. Now I don't think between 2012 and 2017 they'll lose 70% of the remaining 75,000 or so subscribers, since the people who are left are pretty die-hard, along with the bumps they get from returning players like me who pop in every now and then, do the upgrades, and then pop out, but I can't see how they can keep those 75,000 around over the next 6 years.

Yes, but even at 20k players (which in my opinion it would probably take like 3 years minimum to drop to, assuming similar updates schedules) would bring in 3.1 million a year, and thats just from subs, not from boosters and item store purchases. UO runs on a mere fraction of that amount, and they could put it into zombie mode, and I think it would still run a good long while at 20k.

F2P does not solve the client problems.

Yes it does. The whole issue with the clients is that they look old, antiquated, but the client (the SA client especially has some great functionality) work just fine. Its hard to look at screenshots and consider paying some (let alone $12.99 a month) for it. However, when a game is free, there is no reason NOT to try it, even if it the graphics are lame.
And as we know UO is a deep and rewarding game, and many people who decided to give it a try as a lark some Tuesday evening, will end up getting hooked, and end up paying money on this that or the other.
If you doubt it, you should check some of the other f2p games that pass as mmos now a days. Some of them are truly terrible, yet have huge player bases and large incomes. I'm not talking Lotr or DDO, im talking about the games in that ad bar at the top of the page your on right now. Those games are terrible, and many are very successful. UO could and would compete against those games handily.

Players are always drawn in by flash, but they stay for quality content, or (imo fairly nefarious) compulsive game design like farmville. UO has the deep high quality content to make the graphics not as important. You just have to get people to try it for a few months.

I have always thought UO in an EXCELLENT candidate for f2p, even long before ddo and loth went f2p, and unless I miss my guess it would flourish.

So yeah, I don't expect UO will be going away any time soon.

 

[Woodsman]

Yeah ... well written and reasoned post by the way ...

Thanks

As for the "money part" ... re: longevity
Holding the Guiness spot /would could be worthwhile/ to run UO at a deficit ...
(without fixing the bugs) Kinda a "Live museum" exhibit ...

They won't run UO with a deficit. EA is incredibly ruthless, they've slashed UO's dev teams in the past when UO was running a profit.

 

[GalenKnighthawke]

UO's revenue stream isn't important to EA. If we had... 10x the player it might get on the radar. They lost like 1+ billion dollars last year.

At first I found it odd that someone would argue that a steady revenue stream would be unimportant to a business in difficulty. They do, after all, have daily obligations to meet, such as payroll, insurance, power bills, etc.

Then I thought that perhaps I was doing you a disservice. I figured maybe you were saying that EA was irrational enough to look a gift horse in the mouth, even at a time when they need all the horses they can get.

Sadly you may well be right. We shall see. But, to the extent it's true, that's a possibility that's been with us for some time. EA's occasional bouts of irrationality have long-been, and remain, the gravest threat to our hobby that there is.

-Galen's player

 

[Uriah Heep]

Yes, but even at 20k players (which in my opinion it would probably take like 3 years minimum to drop to, assuming similar updates schedules) would bring in 3.1 million a year, and thats just from subs, not from boosters and item store purchases. UO runs on a mere fraction of that amount, and they could put it into zombie mode, and I think it would still run a good long while at 20k.

People talk about sub numbers, and then you see people talk about players. This quote, mentions 20k players would keep UO profitable (see top line). Hate to tell you this, but thats about what I figure you have right now. 20k *Players* not 20k subs. Most all of the players I know have multiple accounts, some running a dozen or more. AT the current time Im paying for (not playing, Paying) 10. And I think this is where things get sticky for Cal and Mythic/Bioware/EA, whatever the name du jour is.

Silly stuff, like missing deadlines on simple crap like a state of the game message/video...a bugged booster that the bugs arent acknowledged for weeks, etc...you all know the routines by now. Somebody somewhere is sitting around saying, "so what if we lose a few players, we can pick up a couple of returners and make up the diff!"

I submit that this isn't so. And is one reason for the slow decline in sub numbers. Becaause when you **** one player off enough to quit, you lost from 5-10 subs! That returning player you got???
One sub, most times....

The most common numbers I see tossed around sub number wise are from 70-75k. And based on what I ahve seen and the peeps ingame I talk to, that would equal about 20k "players". Because, in my experience, the vast majority of us hold multiple accounts.
So as EA pisses off one player, and loses 4-5 subs from each, the amount adds up over time. And from my long term viewpoint of watching people come and go, when they leave, they close em all, if they come back, they open one. The net loss is still there, even tho we recouped a bit of it.
But what do I know...
*shrugs*

 

[Kayne.]

Bioware + UO


drool...

 

[Uvtha]

At first I found it odd that someone would argue that a steady revenue stream would be unimportant to a business in difficulty. They do, after all, have daily obligations to meet, such as payroll, insurance, power bills, etc.

Then I thought that perhaps I was doing you a disservice. I figured maybe you were saying that EA was irrational enough to look a gift horse in the mouth, even at a time when they need all the horses they can get.

Sadly you may well be right. We shall see. But, to the extent it's true, that's a possibility that's been with us for some time. EA's occasional bouts of irrationality have long-been, and remain, the gravest threat to our hobby that there is.

-Galen's player

My point was that EA is a multi-billion dollar cooperation. UO is like 1/1000 of their income. I'm sure they are happy that it is profitable, but compared to titles like Madden, Battlefield, Dead Space, Dragon Age, The Sims, Mass Effect, Crysis etc, its not an "important" part of their company.

Hell, DAoC has around 3x the subs that UO has...

 

[Uvtha]

People talk about sub numbers, and then you see people talk about players. This quote, mentions 20k players would keep UO profitable (see top line). Hate to tell you this, but thats about what I figure you have right now. 20k *Players* not 20k subs. Most all of the players I know have multiple accounts, some running a dozen or more. AT the current time Im paying for (not playing, Paying) 10. And I think this is where things get sticky for Cal and Mythic/Bioware/EA, whatever the name du jour is.

Silly stuff, like missing deadlines on simple crap like a state of the game message/video...a bugged booster that the bugs arent acknowledged for weeks, etc...you all know the routines by now. Somebody somewhere is sitting around saying, "so what if we lose a few players, we can pick up a couple of returners and make up the diff!"

I submit that this isn't so. And is one reason for the slow decline in sub numbers. Becaause when you **** one player off enough to quit, you lost from 5-10 subs! That returning player you got???
One sub, most times....

The most common numbers I see tossed around sub number wise are from 70-75k. And based on what I ahve seen and the peeps ingame I talk to, that would equal about 20k "players". Because, in my experience, the vast majority of us hold multiple accounts.
So as EA pisses off one player, and loses 4-5 subs from each, the amount adds up over time. And from my long term viewpoint of watching people come and go, when they leave, they close em all, if they come back, they open one. The net loss is still there, even tho we recouped a bit of it.
But what do I know...
*shrugs*

Yeah I agree about the multi account individuals, but I also find that there are also a lot of people who just tend to go dormant and leave most of their accounts open so who knows. As for the state of the game dev response wise I think its been actually pretty good in the past few years (comparably). I guess its hard to expect much out of a team of like 10 people.

I'm fairly certain that there are enough die hards in game to keep the basement to 20k accounts though. And like I said if situations get too dire they will just f2p it.

 

[Uvtha]

Bioware + UO


drool...

We can dream.

 

[GalenKnighthawke]

My point was that EA is a multi-billion dollar cooperation. UO is like 1/1000 of their income.

And that has day to day operations it has to fund.

*shrugs*

I'm sure they are happy that it is profitable, but compared to titles like Madden, Battlefield, Dead Space, Dragon Age, The Sims, Mass Effect, Crysis etc, its not an "important" part of their company.

Hell, DAoC has around 3x the subs that UO has...

Last information we had, which wasn't worth all that much but sounded credible at the time and given the context, was they both had around 50,000, with WHO having around 100,000. DAoC and UO's numbers were, in this context, considered healthy, whereas WHO's were not, because it was for a relatively new game that hadn't made its investment back yet.

And, again, EA has daily operations to fund.

UO is a revenue stream.

A revenue stream that ain't going away unless they screw it up. One way they can screw it up is if they think like you think in your post. I can only assume you are eloquently illustrating the kind of thinking they might well be engaging in, which could endanger our hobby. It's something I've feared for a long time and something they show evidence of....That they only understand big cash and don't understand how important a steady revenue stream, like UO, is.

*shrugs*

-Galen's player

 

[HD2300]

Last information we had, which wasn't worth all that much but sounded credible at the time and given the context, was they both had around 50,000, with WHO having around 100,000. DAoC and UO's numbers were, in this context, considered healthy, whereas WHO's were not, because it was for a relatively new game that hadn't made its investment back yet.

And, again, EA has daily operations to fund.

UO is a revenue stream.

A revenue stream that ain't going away unless they screw it up.

Draconi posted recently 'assume that the number of subscriptions are 60,000'.
So it is around the 50,000 to 60,000 mark.

Now what could screw up this revenue stream? Focusing on things that are of no interest to the majority of these existing subscribers.

 

[Jirel of Joiry]

Nm, nothing I have to say matters.

 

[Petra Fyde]

I think this has gone far enough.

I will endeavour to obtain better contact information so this groundless panic doesn't come up again.

The EA support phone number should be used for Account queries only. The people staffing it know nothing of the individual games' play. Game play information must come from GMs or Mythic - or fellow players.