Lumberjacking Facts Revealed...

[Restroom Cowboy]

Will you stop with your mage vs Dexxer BS. I mean seriously I could get all the stats I needed and still 85 fire and poison, I just find it pointless to go that high since being cursed still brings you down to 60 regardless.

Explain to me how it is so much harder for a mage again? They need no more props than an Axer, 20lrc vs 8SI works out to the same over all props and SI uses more intensity than lrc does, so technically the dexxer loses out more than a mage does. Can't have SI on a ring or bracelet, and you can cancel FCR out with needing HCI (again HCI has a higher intesity than FCR) DI needs to be maxed vs SDI on a mage. And the only other mage prop is FC which could be countered with needing SSI, although the prop intensity is not as high, it still levels the prop needs.

Did I miss anything?

Aside from suit, wtf does this have to do with a mage Mr. Obvious? I made a simple statement based upon the current damage scenario...

No, I don't agree with you on a dexxer suit...because dexxers can and do have a lot more versatility to their suits. If you don't see that...you are as they say *part of the problem*. Dexxer's for the most part do not use fc/fcr, they do not use sdi, they do not use lrc, and they do not require the armor to be medible.

Did I miss anything...or do I need to go all sesame street on your ass so that you understand?

@ war ultima...no...I don't need to read what logrus stated. Why? because I see whats happening in game without the need for math. How? When you approach the same player ten times in a row and get 3 hitted every...single...time with 70 dci and 150 HP...you start to understand EXACTLY what is happening. Again, this has nothing to do with being a mage...this has nothing to do with formulas that arent correct...this is realtime gameplay.

if you DONT believe my claims...I suggest you hop on over to atlantic and face off against the guy using the template. char name is Green Man...I believe the person playing him goes by sensu bean. Until then, keep the math to yourself...because when the game says one thing and the math another...the math is wrong. Comprende?

 

[Cloak&Dagger]

Aside from suit, wtf does this have to do with a mage Mr. Obvious? I made a simple statement based upon the current damage scenario...

No, I don't agree with you on a dexxer suit...because dexxers can and do have a lot more versatility to their suits. If you don't see that...you are as they say *part of the problem*. Dexxer's for the most part do not use fc/fcr, they do not use sdi, they do not use lrc, and they do not require the armor to be medible.

Did I miss anything...or do I need to go all sesame street on your ass so that you understand?

Holy hell reading comprehension was lost on you there huh. I compared the mage suit to a dexxer suit. Yea they dont need lrc but they need SI which has a HIGHER weight when imbuing than LRC does. I am not going to repeat all the other stats, so again, aside from "needing to be leather" which...even most dexxers do, what stat did I not address? For every mage stat there is one a dexxer needs to have.

Again compare mage armor to a suit that a LJer would need, and the total props and intensities come out almost equal, although the LJer weights might actually be more over all.

 

[Lynk]

Holy hell reading comprehension was lost on you there huh.

You'd have better luck talking to a tootsie roll wrapper than getting Restroom Cowboy to understand basic logic.

 

[Farsight]

One side of the discussion is giving out completely accurate information which is about the standard, average damage that a lumberjack will deal in PvP activities.

The other side of the discussion is giving out completely accurate information about the potential for huge strikes.

If we're looking at potential for power, the other side has the more pertinent point.

i.e. in the discussions a few months back about the overpowered yumi, people didn't look at the damage of the bow (which is pathetic on its own), but rather the double shot against a disarmed opponent where both spells go off.

It's the same story here. Single shots for 50 or more damage aren't too common unless the situation is right.

Also, the normal corpse-proof suit has 75 poison resist. If you corpse skin 75 poison, it still goes down to 60, and thus gives an extra 10% of the maximum damage.

 

[WarUltima]

One side of the discussion is giving out completely accurate information which is about the standard, average damage that a lumberjack will deal in PvP activities.

The other side of the discussion is giving out completely accurate information about the potential for huge strikes.

If we're looking at potential for power, the other side has the more pertinent point.

i.e. in the discussions a few months back about the overpowered yumi, people didn't look at the damage of the bow (which is pathetic on its own), but rather the double shot against a disarmed opponent where both spells go off.

It's the same story here. Single shots for 50 or more damage aren't too common unless the situation is right.

Also, the normal corpse-proof suit has 75 poison resist. If you corpse skin 75 poison, it still goes down to 60, and thus gives an extra 10% of the maximum damage.

And I can easily put the "possible burst-ability" down for you in plain English.

According to my test and Logrus' comments...
GM Lumberjacking bonus is independent from your tactics/anatomy/DI.
Having GM lumberjacking it gives you 30 DI all the time when using an axe. And you have a 5% chance to crit which gives you 70 more DI.
In Ultima Online official production shards Damage Increase-to-Base Damage works off your base weapon damage times Damage Increase.

So take Ornate Axe as example which has a base damage of 18 to 20.
GM Lumberjacking gives you 30DI which is (18*.3 - 20*.3) = (5 - 6) bonus damage (on top of the base damage of a similar swordsman with 0 lumberjacking)
At the event of a crit GM Lumberjacking gives you a total of 100DI which will give you (18*1-20*1) = (18-20) bonus damage.

Factoring in Armor Mitigation (all 70s)
GM Lumberjacking none crit gives you a "Real Damage" of (5*.3 - 6*.3) =(1-2) damage.
GM Lumberjacking with crit gives you a "Real Damage" of (18*.3-20*.3)= (5-6) damage

So assuming 2 swordsman having EXACTLY SAME TEMPLATE.
Swordsman A has invested 100 more skill points in Lumberjacking.
Swordsman B has no points in lumberjacking.

Against someone is in all 70s
Swordsman A will deal EXACTLY SAME DAMAGE OF Swordsman B + 1 to 2 damage on all swings.
Swordsman A will deal EXACTLY SAME DAMAGE of Swordsman B + 5 to 6 damage 5% of the time... that's one(1) in twenty(20) swings

So against all 70s GM Lumberjacker will burst NO MORE than 6 damage than Zero Lumberjacker. Which is 9 more damage on a crit crushing blow.
So you will gain 9 more damage in 1 crushing blow for every 20 crushing blows you put out.

You will do more against bad pvpers who has sub-par suits and does not know how to use an apple of course. But again the only times GM LJ will deal any damage worth a damn is if their opponent is not running 70s resist and scores a crit crushing blow (and no dexer in the world of UO has the ability to chain 20 crushing blow in PvP none stop). Chances are even if you are trying to kill a newb pvper rocking 60 resist suit you will probably kill him before your crit will ever come out let along a crit crushing blow.

Btw since you mentioned Yumi... if you think double shot quadruple proc only happens onces in a blue moon... then a crit crushing blow with 1 single hit spell will happen once every 3 blue moons.

Again... unless you are on a shard that you consistently get to fight newbs running 60 or below resists all the time... in that case your crit crushing blow with hit spell will happen once in a blue moon which is much better chance than once every 3 blue moons I guess.

 

[Cloak&Dagger]

Again... unless you are on a shard that you consistently get to fight newbs running 60 or below resists all the time... in that case your crit crushing blow with hit spell will happen once in a blue moon which is much better chance than once every 3 blue moons I guess.

Not that I argue with your math, as it works out perfectly. But at least 4 people have told you that "in practice" your math is "wrong". I will add that I have witnessed it doing more than your math suggests, I do not know the exact circumstances though. I also point out that ending up with 60 resist any time a mage type character around is almost guaranteed for the duration of the fight.

We can all agree that sometimes the developers get things wrong, I will take an assumption and say that Logrus did not check the code and recheck it and do tests before he posted what "should" be happening, so his post is not finite until he comes back and says it is, and even then there is obvious cases of your math not working (such is restroom, and a rev, and lynk, and farsights posts) and what I have witnessed myself. But again in lynk's case he was cursing people, as for the other examples I do not know what happens exactly but it still happens.

Edit: Just curious would a 1% chance of it going off, but being based off your total damage be a better solution for you? I mean obviously the chance for it to work would be low, but the damage you gain would be much higher....Not sure if that is a balance solution as I did not run the math vs the chances just tossing out ideas *shrugs*

 

[longshanks]

this thread made my lunch hour.

quote:

"me no know how to make suit me run 60".

unquote

damn near peed myself when i read this.

 

[Logrus]

So all the discussion had me curious.
150 Strength
120 Anatomy
100 Lumberjacking
100% DI weapon

Base Damage 76 - 85 ( Crit bonus 12- 14) Total 88 - 99

Divine Fury: Base 78 - 87 / Crit: 90 - 101
Grapes of Fury: 83 - 92 / Crit 95 - 106
Divine Fury + Grapes of Wrath: 84 - 94 / Crit 96 - 108


So Damage for Crushing blow would be 144 - 162.



And versus 70 resist using Crushing Blow
34 - 38 (No Mods) 39 - 44 (Crit)
35 - 39 (Fury Only) 40 - 45(Crit)
37 - 41 (Grapes Only) 42- 47 (Crit)
37 - 42 (Grapes + Divine Fury) 43 - 48. (Crit)


And for the most fun burst damage potential.


Grapes of Wrath + Divine Fury + Concecrate (Just in Case) + Stone form @ 120/120 + thundering axe (hit lightning) + hit fireball (from crafting runic)

Gives a potential damage of 70% to your base damage ( 84- 94) = 126 - 159
Or 163 - 183 (Crit)
Potential of 18 - 25 Dmg from Fireball
Potential of 20 - 26 Dmg from Lightning


So a single potential hit dealing 201 - 234 Damage
Or : 60 - 70 to a target with All 70's resist
(I'm not gonna test those numbers any more but the math continues below subject to verification)
-------------------------------------------
And if you want to take it even further into the realm of improbability
Using a focusing weapon at peak and a spell focusing sash at peak that would up the damage to
159 - 178 / 182 - 205 (Crit)
+
21 - 30 Fireball
24 - 31 Lightning

Potential Damage of
227 - 266 Or 68 - 79 vs All 70's

( I stopped actual testing at the Adding of focusing weapon/sash )

Ah thought of something else, Add Evil Omen. That may add an extra 3 or 4 damage to lightning or you could take out lightning and see whether it adds it to the total damage or base. (I'm sure not gonna test it )


Add a Bard With tribulation maxed out (impossible of course with the above listed skills but lets go ahead and let it play out)
50% Direct damage bonus which would be dealt on the first hit or the base damage So tahts probably an extra 30 - 35 on top.

So if the stars alight absolutely correctly you could potentially deal 98 + to 114+ Damage to an all 70's target in a single hit.

 

[puni666]

So all the discussion had me curious.
150 Strength
120 Anatomy
100 Lumberjacking
100% DI weapon

Base Damage 76 - 85 ( Crit bonus 12- 14) Total 88 - 99

Divine Fury: Base 78 - 87 / Crit: 90 - 101
Grapes of Fury: 83 - 92 / Crit 95 - 106
Divine Fury + Grapes of Wrath: 84 - 94 / Crit 96 - 108


So Damage for Crushing blow would be 144 - 162.



And versus 70 resist using Crushing Blow
34 - 38 (No Mods) 39 - 44 (Crit)
35 - 39 (Fury Only) 40 - 45(Crit)
37 - 41 (Grapes Only) 42- 47 (Crit)
37 - 42 (Grapes + Divine Fury) 43 - 48. (Crit)


And for the most fun burst damage potential.


Grapes of Wrath + Divine Fury + Concecrate (Just in Case) + Stone form @ 120/120 + thundering axe (hit lightning) + hit fireball (from crafting runic)

Gives a potential damage of 70% to your base damage ( 84- 94) = 126 - 159
Or 163 - 183 (Crit)
Potential of 18 - 25 Dmg from Fireball
Potential of 20 - 26 Dmg from Lightning


So a single potential hit dealing 201 - 234 Damage
Or : 60 - 70 to a target with All 70's resist
(I'm not gonna test those numbers any more but the math continues below subject to verification)
-------------------------------------------
And if you want to take it even further into the realm of improbability
Using a focusing weapon at peak and a spell focusing sash at peak that would up the damage to
159 - 178 / 182 - 205 (Crit)
+
21 - 30 Fireball
24 - 31 Lightning

Potential Damage of
227 - 266 Or 68 - 79 vs All 70's

( I stopped actual testing at the Adding of focusing weapon/sash )

Ah thought of something else, Add Evil Omen. That may add an extra 3 or 4 damage to lightning or you could take out lightning and see whether it adds it to the total damage or base. (I'm sure not gonna test it )


Add a Bard With tribulation maxed out (impossible of course with the above listed skills but lets go ahead and let it play out)
50% Direct damage bonus which would be dealt on the first hit or the base damage So tahts probably an extra 30 - 35 on top.

So if the stars alight absolutely correctly you could potentially deal 98 + to 114+ Damage to an all 70's target in a single hit.

You do realize that you can't craft that weapon right? You can no longer craft those Thundering Axes with other Hit Spell properties on them. That happened many many publishes ago lol. Unintended?

 

[puni666]

That goes for ANY unique crafted weapon with a added hit spell on them Wounding Assassian's spikes etc.

 

[Logrus]

Dang, we fixed that?

If it wasnt retro I think i still have one laying around

(and you can reduce the total damage from previous calc to - the lighting, so thats about 20- 30 base and 9 vs all 70's

 

[Cloak&Dagger]

So all the discussion had me curious.
150 Strength
120 Anatomy
100 Lumberjacking
100% DI weapon

Base Damage 76 - 85 ( Crit bonus 12- 14) Total 88 - 99

Divine Fury: Base 78 - 87 / Crit: 90 - 101
Grapes of Fury: 83 - 92 / Crit 95 - 106
Divine Fury + Grapes of Wrath: 84 - 94 / Crit 96 - 108


So Damage for Crushing blow would be 144 - 162.



And versus 70 resist using Crushing Blow
34 - 38 (No Mods) 39 - 44 (Crit)
35 - 39 (Fury Only) 40 - 45(Crit)
37 - 41 (Grapes Only) 42- 47 (Crit)
37 - 42 (Grapes + Divine Fury) 43 - 48. (Crit)


And for the most fun burst damage potential.


Grapes of Wrath + Divine Fury + Concecrate (Just in Case) + Stone form @ 120/120 + thundering axe (hit lightning) + hit fireball (from crafting runic)

Gives a potential damage of 70% to your base damage ( 84- 94) = 126 - 159
Or 163 - 183 (Crit)
Potential of 18 - 25 Dmg from Fireball
Potential of 20 - 26 Dmg from Lightning


So a single potential hit dealing 201 - 234 Damage
Or : 60 - 70 to a target with All 70's resist
(I'm not gonna test those numbers any more but the math continues below subject to verification)
-------------------------------------------
And if you want to take it even further into the realm of improbability
Using a focusing weapon at peak and a spell focusing sash at peak that would up the damage to
159 - 178 / 182 - 205 (Crit)
+
21 - 30 Fireball
24 - 31 Lightning

Potential Damage of
227 - 266 Or 68 - 79 vs All 70's

( I stopped actual testing at the Adding of focusing weapon/sash )

Ah thought of something else, Add Evil Omen. That may add an extra 3 or 4 damage to lightning or you could take out lightning and see whether it adds it to the total damage or base. (I'm sure not gonna test it )


Add a Bard With tribulation maxed out (impossible of course with the above listed skills but lets go ahead and let it play out)
50% Direct damage bonus which would be dealt on the first hit or the base damage So tahts probably an extra 30 - 35 on top.

So if the stars alight absolutely correctly you could potentially deal 98 + to 114+ Damage to an all 70's target in a single hit.

So what you are saying is entirely possible, but laugh at the fool trying? lol...

 

[Logrus]

Kind of like winning the lottery, I wouldnt bank my retirement on it, but damned if hitting it just once isn't enough.

 

[WarUltima]

Kind of like winning the lottery, I wouldnt bank my retirement on it, but damned if hitting it just once isn't enough.

LOL funny I wouldnt banked on it neither.

Also can you confirm that the crit chance is currently bugged? I did 200 hits and only 8 total procs... not even have of the expected value of 20. (the min dmg of a crit is always more than the max dmg of a none crit, so trust me I didnt miss any)

And I looked at the number which is exactly like mine, so glad that I have the math down correctly.

Maybe its intended maybe it's not, despite a lot of "hear-says" that stuff like that "52 crushing vs all 70 happening all the time every single time bs" do you think LJ is functioning correctly.

Also to doubt some of your examples... here's what I know...
1. Grape bonus damage does NOT put you over the 100 DI cap in PvP.
2. Divine Fury 10% also does NOT put you over the 100 DI cap in PvP.
3. Divine Fury 10ssi does NOT put you over the 60 SSI cap in PvP.
4. Evil Omen does NOT work for crushing blow if your item DI is already at 100.
5. Evil Omen also does NOT work with Armor Ignore.

I have personally tested all point 1 thru 5 above. Are they bugged and supposed to take you over the cap damage of 100? (You know I have already thought of AND tested ALL the examples you listed in the attempt to find the max possible burst dmg for LJ that people SAY they know but none of them knows wtf they are talking about and none of them actually did any kind of test) .

Unless those are changed recently of course.

And versus 70 resist using Crushing Blow
34 - 38 (No Mods) 39 - 44 (Crit)
35 - 39 (Fury Only) 40 - 45(Crit)
37 - 41 (Grapes Only) 42- 47 (Crit)
37 - 42 (Grapes + Divine Fury) 43 - 48. (Crit)

So if I was right only the first row apply.
And using your numbers at capped DI which is 34-38 per crushing blow... which again coincided with my findings that under normal circumstances AI is just as good with a lot less "strings attached". Crushing blow does have few advantages 1. cost 5 mana less to preform 2. have scaleable effect on people with sub-par suits and under the effects of curse.

34-38 is basically 22-25 without crushing...

Even if Grape + Divine Fury both works according to your calculation it's impossible to crushing for more than 48... which is against certain posters' "I crushing blow for 52 thru 70 all the time NO HIT SPELL, NO NOTHING". Again I just want to point it out to them it's mathematically, systematically and technically impossible. (unless you start figuring in focusing gem, evil omen IF they do put you over cap DI and hit spell). Thanks for proofing my math tho.

Now please check on that 5% crit chance BS!!! I am almost certain that the crit chance is NOT at 10%.

 

[Cloak&Dagger]

Even if Grape + Divine Fury both works according to your calculation it's impossible to crushing for more than 48... which is against certain posters' "I crushing blow for 52 thru 70 all the time NO HIT SPELL, NO NOTHING". Again I just want to point it out to them it's mathematically, systematically and technically impossible. (unless you start figuring in focusing gem, evil omen IF they do put you over cap DI and hit spell). Thanks for proofing my math tho.

Now please check on that 5% crit chance BS!!! I am almost certain that the crit chance is NOT at 10%.

Again, not much of an argument about math, but about "in practice", of course those people saying they crushing blow on people in all 70's might not know the player doesn't have 70's....Just a thought. (Have given various examples of how you could have lower than 70 in a resist, I even didn't mention an obvious one, Magic reflect.)

 

[E_T]

So all the discussion had me curious.
150 Strength
120 Anatomy
100 Lumberjacking
100% DI weapon

Base Damage 76 - 85 ( Crit bonus 12- 14) Total 88 - 99

Divine Fury: Base 78 - 87 / Crit: 90 - 101
Grapes of Fury: 83 - 92 / Crit 95 - 106
Divine Fury + Grapes of Wrath: 84 - 94 / Crit 96 - 108

So the actual critical hit bonus from Lumberjacking adds up to 12-14 damage with the highest damage axe, the ornate axe, 5-10% of the time . That would be an +4 damage against 70 resist or +6 damage against 60 resist, 5-10% of the time. I think that officially makes the recent Lumberjacking change pretty laughable, IMO. If it was 50% of the time, I might consider putting LJ back on one of my characters.

 

[Kim Li of LS]

id say up the % chance a chunk, maybe as much as 1 in 5 hits (20%),
maybe even 1 in 4 (25%)<--but I think that cuz the RNG hates me and has for years......

 

[WarUltima]

I have temporary ss'ed of lj (again).
Changed race to gargoyle using soul glaive which is one handed with higher base dmg than ornate. And I don't need to spent 100 extra skill points and I hit just as hard. Did I mention I can chug and have 11 tile range?

Maybe I should just put it on my pvmer or something. 8 crits outta 200 hits are not what I will call semi reliable and the actual dmg when the blue moon comes up is still laughable compare toother specials especially for spending 100 extra skill points.

 

[puni666]

Why not just make axe's there own weapon class with the added effect of the double your base damage or w/e it is and leave LJ to be a resource collectors skill. Kind of like how maces have the hidden effect of damaging stamina and armor. Really axes have it pretty bad anyways since they're all two handed (excluding War Axes). They're all slow and have barely comparable damage to most faster one handed weapons.

On a side note why doesn't a War Axe classify as an axe?

 

[WarUltima]

Waraxe is not an axe because people will cry about an one handed weapon just crit them after 20 swings for 2 extra damange. Its op!

 

[WarUltima]

Another way to make lumberjacking skill viable in pvp is to give. The ability to chug to gm ljers while using an axe weapon. This is of course assuming devs want to keep the pathetic bonus dmg the same.

 

[puni666]

Just wearing the weapon should be penalty enough to get the bonus imo.. No skill points should be spent for this benefit for a not so beneficial selection of weaponry.

 

[A Rev]

Well what we can do WU is ask Puni666 whether his char, Hyatt, has all 70's on his suit.

He is the one who i hit for 51 and to clarify...read back, i never said all the time.

Im still working the suit out but tested again yesterday on my sampire and with a HL ornate and 100DI in a disarm/crushing blow the total damage was 93. Dont even think i got the crit bonus on either of those hits.

Edit: One thing i definatly agree with you on WU is that the 10%, well, it just isnt 10%. I started "counting" the number of crits i was scoring on a DF the other day and through the whole thing i think i hit maybe 15. I know i was hitting hard...but i seriously doubt i killed him in 150 hits!

 

[Restroom Cowboy]

You'd have better luck talking to a tootsie roll wrapper than getting Restroom Cowboy to understand basic logic.

Hey Wonderboy, looks like Logrus took care of your need for humble pie.

Care to change your tune?

 

[Restroom Cowboy]

Another way to make lumberjacking skill viable in pvp is to give. The ability to chug to gm ljers while using an axe weapon. This is of course assuming devs want to keep the pathetic bonus dmg the same.

Really? So doing 30-50+ dmg every 1.25 secs without using any mana isn't enough for you? rolleyes:

 

[WarUltima]

Really? So doing 30-50+ dmg every 1.25 secs without using any mana isn't enough for you? rolleyes:

Thats 30-50+ damage to people at YOUR level. Not yet at the average PvPers' level... unfortunately. rolleyes:

 

[Restroom Cowboy]

Holy hell reading comprehension was lost on you there huh. I compared the mage suit to a dexxer suit. Yea they dont need lrc but they need SI which has a HIGHER weight when imbuing than LRC does. I am not going to repeat all the other stats, so again, aside from "needing to be leather" which...even most dexxers do, what stat did I not address? For every mage stat there is one a dexxer needs to have.

Again compare mage armor to a suit that a LJer would need, and the total props and intensities come out almost equal, although the LJer weights might actually be more over all.

I don't know dude...my comprehension is just fine...what you do not seem to get is the ease at which a dexxer suit is made and the actual physical malleability of the traits that reside within. As you stated...the weights of properties can be much higher than that of a mage suit...and are not limited to the properties cap or medability.

Necessities?
mages
1) lrc
2) lmc
3) sdi
4) dci
5) mana regen
6) medeable
7) hpi
8) mana inc
9) fc
10) fcr
11) +20 mage item

dexxer
1) hci
2) dci
3) lmc
4) hpi
5) stam inc
6) dmg inc
7) mana in
8) ssi

so...for every mage stat there is a dexxy equivalent? so what am I missing then? looks like 11 to mages 8 to dexxers.

oh...and those poor dexxers! they have it so bad the devs tossed them a tool to make the perfect 6 modded wooden armor. those poor poor souls.

 

[A Rev]

In defence of mage suits, its the only build i have been able to make using all mods on mods.

Each piece has MR HPR LRC as a base then theres MI, LMC, HPI distributed between the rest.

Ive come very close now with enhancing to have 6 mod dexxer suits but still missing the final pieces of the puzzle to make it truly awe inspiring!

 

[Restroom Cowboy]

Thats 30-50+ damage to people at YOUR level. Not yet at the average PvPers' level... unfortunately. rolleyes:

What is my level sir? I am just a regular player who enjoys a good ass kicking as much as the next chap. Just here to point out things I see as issues before they become larger problems.

Right now I see nothing more ridiculous in game than a 4 second drop from 150-0 hp with less than 30 mana expended...it may be the opposite end of the axer spectrum...but it still is a doozy.

 

[Restroom Cowboy]

In defence of mage suits, its the only build i have been able to make using all mods on mods.

Each piece has MR HPR LRC as a base then theres MI, LMC, HPI distributed between the rest.

Ive come very close now with enhancing to have 6 mod dexxer suits but still missing the final pieces of the puzzle to make it truly awe inspiring!

Heh, its out there...about pooped my shorts seeing it.

 

[puni666]

Well what we can do WU is ask Puni666 whether his char, Hyatt, has all 70's on his suit.

He is the one who i hit for 51 and to clarify...read back, i never said all the time.

Im still working the suit out but tested again yesterday on my sampire and with a HL ornate and 100DI in a disarm/crushing blow the total damage was 93. Dont even think i got the crit bonus on either of those hits.

Edit: One thing i definatly agree with you on WU is that the 10%, well, it just isnt 10%. I started "counting" the number of crits i was scoring on a DF the other day and through the whole thing i think i hit maybe 15. I know i was hitting hard...but i seriously doubt i killed him in 150 hits!

I'm pretty sure that was after a fresh res and it was on Job I'm pretty sure I was running around holding my dress macro so that's how you got the extra dmg on me . I think that suit's all 70's though I forget.

 

[WarUltima]

I'm pretty sure that was after a fresh res and it was on Job I'm pretty sure I was running around holding my dress macro so that's how you got the extra dmg on me . I think that suit's all 70's though I forget.

So he was full of ****.
You know I can rez kill someone with a heavy or a flame strike and deal 100+ damage in one hit.

I doubt he really done any testing.
Because unlike what those people claim... not counting hit spell I have yet to be hit for more than 25 by a character that has 150 str/120 tactics/120 anatomy/100 lumberjacking/100 di using ornate axe. And the highest crit recorded during the test was 29. But again I guess I have better armor than the baddies running in 50s. After the patch in MY 70s suit(apparently some people out there has "imaginary" 70 resist suit or something) I have yet to be hit for more than 50 damage in one damage in PvP... the 50 was done by max skill death strike.

And I have done the 200 swing tests on a guildie with all 70s... lol I can tell you rightnow... crushing for 51 via 70 is utterly completely bull**** again unless the dude has baddie newb suit or you are rezkilling some half naked person.

 

[puni666]

Shoot if you want high damage just use a heavy x bow with max str/tact/ana/DI and don't worry about LJ use 60/60 necro/SS and evil omen+normal hit or dismount. Just make sure you EO before every hit .

 

[WarUltima]

Shoot if you want high damage just use a heavy x bow with max str/tact/ana/DI and don't worry about LJ use 60/60 necro/SS and evil omen+normal hit or dismount. Just make sure you EO before every hit .

You dont have to omen. Heavy/Soul Glaive natively hit harder than maxed out dmg LJ Axer while cost 100 less skill.

 

[Restroom Cowboy]

So he was full of ****.
You know I can rez kill someone with a heavy or a flame strike and deal 100+ damage in one hit.

I doubt he really done any testing.
Because unlike what those people claim... not counting hit spell I have yet to be hit for more than 25 by a character that has 150 str/120 tactics/120 anatomy/100 lumberjacking/100 di using ornate axe. And the highest crit recorded during the test was 29. But again I guess I have better armor than the baddies running in 50s. After the patch in MY 70s suit(apparently some people out there has "imaginary" 70 resist suit or something) I have yet to be hit for more than 50 damage in one damage in PvP... the 50 was done by max skill death strike.

And I have done the 200 swing tests on a guildie with all 70s... lol I can tell you rightnow... crushing for 51 via 70 is utterly completely bull**** again unless the dude has baddie newb suit or you are rezkilling some half naked person.

Nope, I am far from full of scat...I only post this crap when I feel it is warranted. I take it you completely discounted the programmer who provided you with actual info?

BTW, when the hell did I mention all 70s? I remember talking 60s poison after being corpse skinned...guess in all your ramblings you forgot to pay attention to that important fact. Guess denial is an important part of your process though, considering the sheer number of times you have done so throughout this one thread alone!

 

[WarUltima]

Nope, I am far from full of scat...I only post this crap when I feel it is warranted. I take it you completely discounted the programmer who provided you with actual info?

BTW, when the hell did I mention all 70s? I remember talking 60s poison after being corpse skinned...guess in all your ramblings you forgot to pay attention to that important fact. Guess denial is an important part of your process though, considering the sheer number of times you have done so throughout this one thread alone!

And that post was towards A Rev who said he was pretty sure that the 51 dmg he claim he's done was thru all 70s while the person he hits (Puni666) for 51 damage said he was dressing up after a rez and A Rev simply rez killed him before he has all his armor pieces on.

Again I never said your suit is as good as all 70s, I simply said most real pvpers worth half a damn has all 70s corpse proof suit, never once did I imply you are one of them. So you dont have to be all defensive about it. =)

Stay in your "very difficult to make mage suit because it takes so much more properties than dexer suit and other roflstuff of yours" which I guess explained why you have a 60s suit. I bet someone can probably crushing blow you for 40+ with a fast one handed weapon like a smith hammer or something. Advise to you is to fix your suit... mage suits are very easy to make now... theres no excuse not having all 70s... I wont expect corpse proof let along my corpse immune and protection proof suit... but at least try to get yourself all 70s... try it not that hard.

 

[Skrag]

Yes, resists should probably be his first priority. He ought to be explaining why he doesn't have quite enough mana, not why he doesn't have all his resists. Not that I know jack about PVP.

Really someone just needs to go down the list in the database and adjust weapon damage and speed. There needs to be a reason for someone to someday possibly ever equip a war hammer, or any of a dozen other weapons that may as well not exist.

 

[Mudde]

This may not add to the discussion much but history is important.

I was around when this was first added -- which was BEFORE the current system of armor/resistances. With GM (all that was available then) swords, tactics, anatomy, lumberjacking the damage was staggering. Normally between 25 and 50% of health could be removed from your opponent with a normal hit from an axe of vanquishing. Crits were 50-75%. It was awesomeness unless of course you were on the receiving end. ^_^

The point is it used to be HUGE, today not so much. It's a shame to see what was once overpowered reduced to 100 points for something that adds so little. It just doesn't have justification for anything other than whacking the occasional Mongbat that drifts in and aggro's my carpenter/bowcrafter.

 

[SixUnder]

The 30% is based off the weapon damage, so you'd get 30% of 18- 20 which is about 5-6 which vs 80 resist is about 2.

On crit thats 70% of base damage so 12-14 ish and versus 70 resist thats about 3-4.

(Classic bonus was the same way giving a % of the weapon damage but pre AOS there wasnt exactly much damage absorbtion like the resist system in place now. so 30 % had a larger impact)

ya but for 100 skill points with a cap of 720?

how does that compete with the DPS of a mage/necro/mystic?

 

[SixUnder]

I don't know dude...my comprehension is just fine...what you do not seem to get is the ease at which a dexxer suit is made and the actual physical malleability of the traits that reside within. As you stated...the weights of properties can be much higher than that of a mage suit...and are not limited to the properties cap or medability.

Necessities?
mages
1) lrc
2) lmc
3) sdi
4) dci
5) mana regen
6) medeable
7) hpi
8) mana inc
9) fc
10) fcr
11) +20 mage item

dexxer
1) hci
2) dci
3) lmc
4) hpi
5) stam inc
6) dmg inc
7) mana in
8) ssi

so...for every mage stat there is a dexxy equivalent? so what am I missing then? looks like 11 to mages 8 to dexxers.

oh...and those poor dexxers! they have it so bad the devs tossed them a tool to make the perfect 6 modded wooden armor. those poor poor souls.

DPS per skill is not the same.

and unless you are a fool,a mystic mage can wear the same armor thats wood a dexer can. even better due to lrc and lmc on arties. mr and focus have nothing to do with if your elf, human, gypsie, mage or a tinkerbell..

 

[Restroom Cowboy]

DPS per skill is not the same.

and unless you are a fool,a mystic mage can wear the same armor thats wood a dexer can. even better due to lrc and lmc on arties. mr and focus have nothing to do with if your elf, human, gypsie, mage or a tinkerbell..

gee, I guess you forgot how mana intensive casting spells really is! focus alone is not enough in pvp...even with MR. however thanks for pointing it out, regardless of how useless the information was.

 

[Restroom Cowboy]

ya but for 100 skill points with a cap of 720?

how does that compete with the DPS of a mage/necro/mystic?

as mentioned, dexxers take the cake on damage. a mage/necro/ or mystic just cannot compete vs. no mana used with an axer. that 100 points is worth not having to use mana to do heavy damage...wouldn't you agree?

 

[Restroom Cowboy]

And that post was towards A Rev who said he was pretty sure that the 51 dmg he claim he's done was thru all 70s while the person he hits (Puni666) for 51 damage said he was dressing up after a rez and A Rev simply rez killed him before he has all his armor pieces on.

Again I never said your suit is as good as all 70s, I simply said most real pvpers worth half a damn has all 70s corpse proof suit, never once did I imply you are one of them. So you dont have to be all defensive about it. =)

Stay in your "very difficult to make mage suit because it takes so much more properties than dexer suit and other roflstuff of yours" which I guess explained why you have a 60s suit. I bet someone can probably crushing blow you for 40+ with a fast one handed weapon like a smith hammer or something. Advise to you is to fix your suit... mage suits are very easy to make now... theres no excuse not having all 70s... I wont expect corpse proof let along my corpse immune and protection proof suit... but at least try to get yourself all 70s... try it not that hard.

70 70 70 73 68. I think you should not concern yourself so much with my resists. I stated some very obvious points, including 70 dci and 150 hp. Toss in the MR, lrc, lmc, kenetic eater, mana inc, and beer...and I would say there is little room for improvement. I would be willing to say that one of my suits is worth 4 of yours...or more. (does it really matter? no, because this has nothing to do with my suit and everything to do with the current system)

So...point? Stick to the vital info...don't sidetrack me with your bullsh...

I gave you a very real example of why what you have now is enough...yet instead of fess up and admit it you attack everything from credibility to suit. I say just bite the bullet here dude, because you are barking up the wrong tree. Point was made, the developer chimed in and gave you the math...yet here we are.

 

[Picus of Napa]

I would be willing to say that one of my suits is worth 4 of yours...or more. (does it really matter? no, because this has nothing to do with my suit and everything to do with the current system)

LOL, the winner. How could one of your suits be worth more then anyone else's? Rare tunics don't matter when your being crushed for 70's RC....I still think that if there was a troll of the year award you and Angelina Jolie would be neck and neck.


Logrus posted this:


So all the discussion had me curious.
150 Strength
120 Anatomy
100 Lumberjacking
100% DI weapon

Base Damage 76 - 85 ( Crit bonus 12- 14) Total 88 - 99

Divine Fury: Base 78 - 87 / Crit: 90 - 101
Grapes of Fury: 83 - 92 / Crit 95 - 106
Divine Fury + Grapes of Wrath: 84 - 94 / Crit 96 - 108

So Damage for Crushing blow would be 144 - 162.

And versus 70 resist using Crushing Blow
34 - 38 (No Mods) 39 - 44 (Crit)
35 - 39 (Fury Only) 40 - 45(Crit)
37 - 41 (Grapes Only) 42- 47 (Crit)
37 - 42 (Grapes + Divine Fury) 43 - 48. (Crit)

I think it clears the debate.

 

[Restroom Cowboy]

LOL, the winner. How could one of your suits be worth more then anyone else's? Rare tunics don't matter when your being crushed for 70's RC....I still think that if there was a troll of the year award you and Angelina Jolie would be neck and neck.


Logrus posted this:


So all the discussion had me curious.
150 Strength
120 Anatomy
100 Lumberjacking
100% DI weapon

Base Damage 76 - 85 ( Crit bonus 12- 14) Total 88 - 99

Divine Fury: Base 78 - 87 / Crit: 90 - 101
Grapes of Fury: 83 - 92 / Crit 95 - 106
Divine Fury + Grapes of Wrath: 84 - 94 / Crit 96 - 108

So Damage for Crushing blow would be 144 - 162.

And versus 70 resist using Crushing Blow
34 - 38 (No Mods) 39 - 44 (Crit)
35 - 39 (Fury Only) 40 - 45(Crit)
37 - 41 (Grapes Only) 42- 47 (Crit)
37 - 42 (Grapes + Divine Fury) 43 - 48. (Crit)

I think it clears the debate.

Dude, why don't you get off my nuts once and for all? I defended against his troll so now you troll me? Eat sh#t. Again, corpse skin + 100% poison wep = the high end of the damage that can be done. Which...as I mentioned more than once already...is enough to do 36 or so regular hits...50+ specs. Now if you debate all that, I suggest you get your hand out of the doritos bag and head over to atlantic where I am sure more than a couple could demonstrate for ya.

As for me trolling...have a coke and a smile. Too often in this game bad changes end up from people trying to twink out already powerful templates while nerfing the rest. Don't agree with what I say? Then dispute it...leave the rest out.

mmmk?

 

[puni666]

You dont have to omen. Heavy/Soul Glaive natively hit harder than maxed out dmg LJ Axer while cost 100 less skill.

Yeah, I'm saying make the most of it and EO though. All that would cost far less then 1 AI and deals over the cap damage. Then you add hit spell etc and it's pretty nasty. Especially if you've got fireball and it interrupts the G heal they're most likely going to try and cast. Gives you enough time to EO hit again :/. I haven't tried it yet I'm just saying it sounds like a lot better idea then a melee 5% chance for crit or whatever it is.

 

[RawHeadRex]

Dude, why don't you get off my nuts once and for all? I defended against his troll so now you troll me? Eat sh#t. Again, corpse skin + 100% poison wep = the high end of the damage that can be done. Which...as I mentioned more than once already...is enough to do 36 or so regular hits...50+ specs. Now if you debate all that, I suggest you get your hand out of the doritos bag and head over to atlantic where I am sure more than a couple could demonstrate for ya.

As for me trolling...have a coke and a smile. Too often in this game bad changes end up from people trying to twink out already powerful templates while nerfing the rest. Don't agree with what I say? Then dispute it...leave the rest out.

mmmk?

you're assuming people don't build fire and poison corpse proof suits ? 85.. not 75 as you mentioned before. also, what is the temp and stats of your 'necro-jacker?'