Lumberjacking Facts Revealed...

[WarUltima]

There is only one damage shown. No longer a separate damage floating up on crit.

At all time GM lumberjacking gives you a 30 Damage Increase which is added to your char stat sheet.

Out of 100 swings with an ornate there were 4 crits, and when it crits it gives you an additional 70 Damage Increase and will SOMETIMES shown on your paperdoll (this is a 13/14 min/max damage added to your paperdoll sheet with an ornate axe). Damage is rounded DOWN.

I know 100 swings is probably not enough swings however its just a reference.

Results: (English version vs a player with all 70s)
At GM Lumberjacking using an ornate you will gain on average of 2 additional damage.

You have about 5% chance to crit and when it crits you gain an average damage of 4 on top of your regular damage.

End result, having GM lumberjacking gives you a MAX BONUS DAMAGE of 6. This is against someone wearing all 70s.



DEVs is Jumberjacking meant to be the worst ever skill points investment in UO history especially in modern day PvP?

Edit: Damage Comparsion Live vs Classic lumberjacking.
Currently on live shards...
100 DI crit (5% chance) against 70s means +6 damage to your regular swing...

Classic LJing bonus
30% bonus final damage. So this essentially means that your final damage = (your damage dealt x 1.3).

Again English version
Assuming you swing your ornate axe on someone in all 70s for 25 damage
You will deal 25 + 6 which is 31 damage on crit ONLY.

In classic you will deal out (25*1.3) = 32.5 damage 100% of the time all the time every single time.

 

[Logrus]

The 30% is based off the weapon damage, so you'd get 30% of 18- 20 which is about 5-6 which vs 80 resist is about 2.

On crit thats 70% of base damage so 12-14 ish and versus 70 resist thats about 3-4.

(Classic bonus was the same way giving a % of the weapon damage but pre AOS there wasnt exactly much damage absorbtion like the resist system in place now. so 30 % had a larger impact)

 

[Picus of Napa]

4 points is hardly worth 100 points invested.

 

[WarUltima]

The 30% is based off the weapon damage, so you'd get 30% of 18- 20 which is about 5-6 which vs 80 resist is about 2.

On crit thats 70% of base damage so 12-14 ish and versus 70 resist thats about 3-4.

(Classic bonus was the same way giving a % of the weapon damage but pre AOS there wasnt exactly much damage absorbtion like the resist system in place now. so 30 % had a larger impact)

Thanks for replying so quickly. At least someone from the DEV side really gives a damn about PvP.

So my number seems to match with yours. That's a maximum bonus damage of 6 with a crit. Is this 6 damage happening 5% of the time considered really really powerful? AI is just as good at 3 more mana cost, and a super fast weapon like kryss can do it or a good hit on nerve strike does comparable damage to crushing blow with much much less "catches" attached.

Not mentioning we are using the heaviest axe in our example. The bonus damage you get from axes like hatchet are laughable. You need 180 stam with at least 35ssi to swing the ornate at cap speed, which prevents you from chugging. Not only that archery weapons arent that much slower can produce MUCH MUCH HIGHER damage (AND have usable range up to 10, throwing with soul glaive have similar result, eg almost as fast MORE damage MORE range ONE HANDED/Balanced AND cost 100 skill points less than ornate axe dexer)) than ornate axes with an additional 100 skill points wasted in LJ, and not to mention you only get that 6 damage 5% of the time... 95% of the time you get an additional of two (2) damage for spending 100 skill points.

My question is, the patch note says the 70% more DI crit chance is 10% but I am afraid it's not the case. I just added 100 more swings to my last 100 swing tests and swing 101 thru swing 200 I had again, 4 crits.

My questions are...
Have you guys ever considered to "seriously" revamping lumberjacking?

Between its laughable damage, whooping 100 skill points requirements that does NOTHING ELSE for you than adding damage to 2 handed AXES only... IMPOSSIBLE to chug unless you are willing to switch to a one handed weapon (so while chugging you essentially deactivate/nerf your own skill points by 100)... melee range only and so on...

I think the last thing you guys should care about if Lumberjacking being overpowered. Because TBH... even if the crit chance is increased by "1000% from 5% to 50% I doubt it's anymore useful considering 5 to 6 more damage really means nothing when you have 100 additional skill points you can put in somewhere else.

Thoughts? Logrus?
Believe me, Lumberjacking will take a MIRACLE at this point to even be useful let along being overpowered.
Maybe letting GM Lumberjackers able to chug with an axe in hand is a good start...

 

[yars]

its not exactly worthy of PvM either, what if it offered a new special move?

 

[Percivalgoh]

Lumberjacks can still harvest wood much more efficiently than the non lumberjack.

 

[RawHeadRex]

The 30% is based off the weapon damage, so you'd get 30% of 18- 20 which is about 5-6 which vs 80 resist is about 2.

On crit thats 70% of base damage so 12-14 ish and versus 70 resist thats about 3-4.

(Classic bonus was the same way giving a % of the weapon damage but pre AOS there wasnt exactly much damage absorbtion like the resist system in place now. so 30 % had a larger impact)

just a suggestion:

reinstate this, anyone with one or more murder counts can't benefit from it. compensate for the resist system to make it the way it was pre AOS. make it so factions can't benefit from it.

... this should bring many into pvp/fel that never venture there. correct me if im wrong but, orginally the bonus was done to help the helpless lumberjackers against the pks, then was nerfed when the pks started to use it.

 

[Restroom Cowboy]

lol, people are complaining about lumberjack dmg? ur all effin nuts! i know right now of a toon hitting for 36-38 regular hits + hitspell...and 50 + hitspell for specs. ever seen someone with high stam swing one of these with 50SSI?

on the flip side inscribe gives a 10% SDI bonus...which ends up equating to 2-3 dmg on most spells. still care to complain?

 

[chuckoatl]

lol, people are complaining about lumberjack dmg? ur all effin nuts! i know right now of a toon hitting for 36-38 regular hits + hitspell...and 50 + hitspell for specs. ever seen someone with high stam swing one of these with 50SSI?

on the flip side inscribe gives a 10% SDI bonus...which ends up equating to 2-3 dmg on most spells. still care to complain?

Leave it to you to pancake about mages. Cheese and rice rabbit. Mystics are still the gimpest temp out there. It will be ok.

 

[Restroom Cowboy]

Leave it to you to pancake about mages. Cheese and rice rabbit. Mystics are still the gimpest temp out there. It will be ok.

I wasn't complaining about mages, I was stating that there is nothing underpowered right now with LJ in comparison to the current workings of other systems that add tertiary dmg adjustments.

We both know you have nothing to add here, if you did...you would dispute my post instead of trolling it.

 

[WarUltima]

lol, people are complaining about lumberjack dmg? ur all effin nuts! i know right now of a toon hitting for 36-38 regular hits + hitspell...and 50 + hitspell for specs. ever seen someone with high stam swing one of these with 50SSI?

on the flip side inscribe gives a 10% SDI bonus...which ends up equating to 2-3 dmg on most spells. still care to complain?

Hitting for 36-38 regular hit + hit spell against someone in all 70s is technically AND mathematically impossible. Are you naked? Do you even know what you are talking about? Know the facts before you troll.

Maximum damage possible @
150 Str (hard cap)
120 Tactics (hard cap)
120 anatomy (hard cap)
100 DI (hard cap in PvP)
100 Lumberjacking (hard cap)
w/ an ornate axe

You will have a damage of 76-85 (which means 22-25 vs all 70s)
Even if we assume you crit EVERY SINGLE TIME which gives 70 more DI
This puts you at 25-29 vs all 70s
That's 25-29 dmg we assume your crit chance is 100% (irl its 5% which is -2000% lower than 100%) (for the sake of showing how clueless you are)

We take that 25-29 damage which is absolutely hard capped out MAX possible damage possible in the game of UO we factor in the focusing gem...
Assuming your lumberjacker crits 100% of the time, and using the focusing gem will grant you 20% damage bonus ALL THE TIME and wont even lower your damage. Assuming it justs gives 20% more damage to your final regular hit damage.

With the 20% bonus damage from the focusing gem which will overcap your ALREADY CAPPED OUT PvP Damage of (25-29) to (30-35)

Fact is even if we assume your bull**** delusional LJ crits 100% of the time and your focusing gem always gives you 20% max bonus damage at all time at the MOST you will deal 30-35 damage against something all 70s in a regular hit.

Your claimed 36-38 regular hit is either
1. completely bull****,
and/or
2. you dont know how to make a suit thus having less than 70 resistance.
and/or
3. you got face planted on a myst cookie cutter mage by a underpowered LJ so you are trying to come up with something that's not even possible to tell yourself "it was ok, kiddo, LJ is OP!, its not you"

So there I just disputed your post with actual ingame data/official formulas of the game Ultima Online, owned by EA.

Please prove me that I was wrong... and to show us you werent just making **** up and you are actually smarter than a piece of wood.

 

[Restroom Cowboy]

Hitting for 36-38 regular hit + hit spell against someone in all 70s is technically AND mathematically impossible. Are you naked? Do you even know what you are talking about? Know the facts before you troll.

Maximum damage possible @
150 Str (hard cap)
120 Tactics (hard cap)
120 anatomy (hard cap)
100 DI (hard cap in PvP)
100 Lumberjacking (hard cap)
w/ an ornate axe

You will have a damage of 76-85 (which means 22-25 vs all 70s)
Even if we assume you crit EVERY SINGLE TIME which gives 70 more DI
This puts you at 25-29 vs all 70s
That's 25-29 dmg we assume your crit chance is 100% (irl its 5% which is -2000% lower than 100%) (for the sake of showing how clueless you are)

We take that 25-29 damage which is absolutely hard capped out MAX possible damage possible in the game of UO we factor in the focusing gem...
Assuming your lumberjacker crits 100% of the time, and using the focusing gem will grant you 20% damage bonus ALL THE TIME and even lower your damage.

With the 20% bonus damage from the focusing gem which will overcap your ALREADY CAPPED OUT PvP Damage of (25-29) to (30-35)

Fact is even if we assume your bull**** delusion LJ crits 100% of the time and your focusing gem always gives you 20% max bonus damage at all time at the MOST you will deal 30-35 damage against something all 70s in a regular hit.

Your claimed 36-38 regular hit is either
1. completely bull****,
and/or
2. you dont know how to make a suit thus having less than 70 resistance.
and/or
3. you got face planted on a myst cookie cutter mage by a underpowered LJ so you are trying to come up with something that's not even possible to tell yourself "it was ok, kiddo, LJ is OP!, its not you"

So there I just disputed your post with actual ingame data/official formulas of the game Ultima Online, owned by EA.

Please prove me that I was wrong... and to show us you werent just making **** up and you are actually smarter than a piece of wood.

Did I state against 70 resist? Try 60...poison resist with 100% poison wep. Smart dexxers do not always roll with 100% phys damage weps...consider that as a starting point to redoing your math and refuting what I said.

Smarter than a piece of wood? How long did it take you to assume I was wrong and how many assumptions did you make along that path? Well done...

BTW, yes...you are wrong. You need to look at things from a new perspective and realize that not everything follows your little cookie cutter logic.

 

[WarUltima]

Did I state against 70 resist? Try 60...poison resist with 100% poison wep. Smart dexxers do not always roll with 100% phys damage weps...consider that as a starting point to redoing your math and refuting what I said.

Smarter than a piece of wood? How long did it take you to assume I was wrong and how many assumptions did you make along that path? Well done...

BTW, yes...you are wrong. You need to look at things from a new perspective and realize that not everything follows your little cookie cutter logic.

I will always out damage you EVERY HIT than your LJ on an archer with 100 less skill points. Wanna test it? Since you failed to dispute my post with anything but "me no know how to make suit me run 60". Any actual arguments?

Oh I guessed it RIGHT! You do NOT know how to make a competent PvP suit thus having 60s in resists... (my pre-imbuing suit is probably better) who the hell that have the basic knowledge of a monkey in armor crafting still couldnt make an all 70 suit? I do most of all my suits corpse proof. So jokes on you.

So again you want to provide some mathematical counters to dispute my post? since your last post obviously failed. Try again? Dont give us that "you dont know how to make a pvp suit that everyone runs 60 resist bullcrap plz... None of the guys in my guild (30+ people) runs sub 70 suit in PvP. Oh maybe you should also learn to use "Enchanted Apples" "Remove Curse" and "Cleansing Wind"...

But those wont even help you if you cant even build a mage suit with more than 60 resists.

Edit:
Lets assume your max ability in making a pvp suit is only at the level where all resists are at 60s.
This makes none crit GM Lumberjack at max damage cap doing a damage of 30-34 Which is STILL below your claim of 36-38...

The only way its close to the damage you claim is if the LJ crits and the victim has subpar suit (60s). Which in this case is 35-39 damage. However the 35-39 damage only happens 5% of the time which is not a regular swing (regular swings happen 100% of the time... and 5% crit chance is again 2000% lower than the chance of 100%).

It's a low chance crit. And that damage is only made possible by newbies wearing lower than average PvP suits that was probably picked up on the ground around luna.

 

[Hunters' Moon]

I will always out damage you EVERY HIT than your LJ on an archer with 100 less skill points.

Or perhaps 200+ points if the LJ has parry.

 

[Lord Chaos]

The LJ bonus was supposed to be a bonus for Lumberjacks, not for PvPers.

 

[Hunters' Moon]

The LJ bonus was supposed to be a bonus for Lumberjacks, not for PvPers.

To chop wood harder?

 

[chuckoatl]

I have a LJ PvPer. I have hit someone for as high as 40 with a crushing blow, plus my hit spell. It does a massive amount of damage. It should though with all the skill points involved.

 

[A Rev]

Those arent facts.

Ive been playing a LJ sampire now since the change went live.

On average i am gaining 50% DI with an ornate without perfection or honor than a sampire with honour using an ornate.

For example, at paroxy my normal hits where 100. Crits 160 without honour. When i had honour my highest crit was 280.

The rare times i have had to PvP on him, a crushing blow to someone with full 70's was hitting for 52 (highest) 41(lowest). Couple that with a 1.25s ss and normal hits hitting for high 20-low 30's and i think its a great investment. Crits in pvp still hit for 35. So again you are not stating facts.

Edit: All crits are capped at 35...thats fact! Only double strike and crushing blow will exceed the cap. Oh, and a double strike with lighting proc just once is mid 50's!

 

[Cloak&Dagger]

I will always out damage you EVERY HIT than your LJ on an archer with 100 less skill points. Wanna test it? Since you failed to dispute my post with anything but "me no know how to make suit me run 60". Any actual arguments?

Oh I guessed it RIGHT! You do NOT know how to make a competent PvP suit thus having 60s in resists... (my pre-imbuing suit is probably better) who the hell that have the basic knowledge of a monkey in armor crafting still couldnt make an all 70 suit? I do most of all my suits corpse proof. So jokes on you.

So again you want to provide some mathematical counters to dispute my post? since your last post obviously failed. Try again? Dont give us that "you dont know how to make a pvp suit that everyone runs 60 resist bullcrap plz... None of the guys in my guild (30+ people) runs sub 70 suit in PvP. Oh maybe you should also learn to use "Enchanted Apples" "Remove Curse" and "Cleansing Wind"...

But those wont even help you if you cant even build a mage suit with more than 60 resists.

Edit:
Lets assume your max ability in making a pvp suit is only at the level where all resists are at 60s.
This makes none crit GM Lumberjack at max damage cap doing a damage of 30-34 Which is STILL below your claim of 36-38...

The only way its close to the damage you claim is if the LJ crits and the victim has subpar suit (60s). Which in this case is 35-39 damage. However the 35-39 damage only happens 5% of the time which is almost not a regular swing. It's a low chance crit. And that damage is almost only made possible by newbies wearing lower than average PvP suits that was probably picked up on the ground around luna.

Most people don't roll with 4/6 casting...so remove curse can be interrupted. Apples have a timer on them. And good groups know how to use people like you to their advantage...such as having someone who thinks they can never end up with periods of time where they will have 60 resist for longer than the press of a button.

On my mages I always assume I will be cursed, so I generally try to get fire and poison to 75 only, instead of 85 trying to hold that "70 while corpsed" since my mage does not have remove curse....and apples, as stated, have a timer on them.

I don't disagree with all the LJ parts though, you can't compare it to inscription unless they make it a 100% of the time adding the same amount as inscription does....but that math is more complicated than I wish to do right now. Well not complicated, I just don't feel like getting the base numbers for the spells, and the weapons, and then applying all the various parts and you get the point.

 

[WarUltima]

I have a LJ PvPer. I have hit someone for as high as 40 with a crushing blow, plus my hit spell. It does a massive amount of damage. It should though with all the skill points involved.

It's not a regular swing... its a crushing blow and it will even do 45-50 damage + hit spell to the suit Cowboy is running on his PvP characters.

 

[WarUltima]

Those arent facts.

Ive been playing a LJ sampire now since the change went live.

On average i am gaining 50% DI with an ornate without perfection or honor than a sampire with honour using an ornate.

For example, at paroxy my normal hits where 100. Crits 160 without honour. When i had honour my highest crit was 280.

The rare times i have had to PvP on him, a crushing blow to someone with full 70's was hitting for 52 (highest) 41(lowest). Couple that with a 1.25s ss and normal hits hitting for high 20-low 30's and i think its a great investment. Crits in pvp still hit for 35. So again you are not stating facts.

Edit: All crits are capped at 35...thats fact! Only double strike and crushing blow will exceed the cap. Oh, and a double strike with lighting proc just once is mid 50's!

Its the crit from GM lumberjack... not light strike crit.
Also in PvM its different. Since the DI from LJ will be doubled to 60% at all time and 200% on crits.

 

[Restroom Cowboy]

I will always out damage you EVERY HIT than your LJ on an archer with 100 less skill points. Wanna test it? Since you failed to dispute my post with anything but "me no know how to make suit me run 60". Any actual arguments?

Oh I guessed it RIGHT! You do NOT know how to make a competent PvP suit thus having 60s in resists... (my pre-imbuing suit is probably better) who the hell that have the basic knowledge of a monkey in armor crafting still couldnt make an all 70 suit? I do most of all my suits corpse proof. So jokes on you.

So again you want to provide some mathematical counters to dispute my post? since your last post obviously failed. Try again? Dont give us that "you dont know how to make a pvp suit that everyone runs 60 resist bullcrap plz... None of the guys in my guild (30+ people) runs sub 70 suit in PvP. Oh maybe you should also learn to use "Enchanted Apples" "Remove Curse" and "Cleansing Wind"...

But those wont even help you if you cant even build a mage suit with more than 60 resists.

Edit:
Lets assume your max ability in making a pvp suit is only at the level where all resists are at 60s.
This makes none crit GM Lumberjack at max damage cap doing a damage of 30-34 Which is STILL below your claim of 36-38...

The only way its close to the damage you claim is if the LJ crits and the victim has subpar suit (60s). Which in this case is 35-39 damage. However the 35-39 damage only happens 5% of the time which is not a regular swing (regular swings happen 100% of the time... and 5% crit chance is again 2000% lower than the chance of 100%).

It's a low chance crit. And that damage is only made possible by newbies wearing lower than average PvP suits that was probably picked up on the ground around luna.

*shakes head*...you just don't get it do you?

suit resist is moot when corpse skin takes you to base 60 poison. (yoo hoo! $$$ suit means nothing here!!!)

again, I urge you to rethink things...

btw, the damage I stated was not from a critical shot...comprende?

 

[A Rev]

Well all im saying is hitting someone in a full 70's for 52 is huge! Thats near enough half life in one hit. Without a hit spell!

 

[Restroom Cowboy]

Well all im saying is hitting someone in a full 70's for 52 is huge! Thats near enough half life in one hit. Without a hit spell!

Yes, you can have a perfect suit...does not matter. Perhaps I should have stated this is an extreme, however I sense once people see this there will be a few more trying it out. Yes, three hit kills...get the crits and it could be done in two.

 

[WarUltima]

Well all im saying is hitting someone in a full 70's for 52 is huge! Thats near enough half life in one hit. Without a hit spell!

And its also impossible unless the certain someone has a suit with resists in the 55s.

Max damage from a GM lumberjack vs all 70s is...
20-25 Regular swing
24-29 on the 5% crit
36-43 on crit with crushing blow.

To achieve 52 damage consistent crushing blow, your victim has to have a resistance of 50s.

On a side note, against someone with 50s resist, a heavy dismount will also do more with 100 less skill points.

 

[A Rev]

No WU!

Most people on GL, one called Hyatt all run 70's and as i said max was 52. Lowest was 41.

 

[Restroom Cowboy]

And its also impossible unless the certain someone has a suit with resists in the 55s.

Max damage from a GM lumberjack vs all 70s is...
20-25 Regular swing
24-29 on the 5% crit
36-43 on crit with crushing blow.

To achieve 52 damage consistent crushing blow, your victim has to have a resistance of 50s.

On a side note, against someone with 50s resist, a heavy dismount will also do more with 100 less skill points.

You know, part of what is wrong with this game is people like yourself saying it is impossible. Have you tried it out? Have you been hit by someone playing this right? I am guessing no to both considering you could not even relate to what I was talking about. I would highly suggest you rethink things through.

again, corpse skin takes you to 60 resist...start there. mmk peanut?

 

[WarUltima]

No WU!

Most people on GL, one called Hyatt all run 70's and as i said max was 52. Lowest was 41.

Well then it's mathmatically impossible.
52 crushing blow to 70s will require 35 damage after armor on a regular swing.
35 damage regular swing thru 70s will require a paperdoll damage of 117.

So NO, it's technically and mathematically impossible unless the system has a bug in it.

We do play ATL, and none of the guys know about the 52 damage crushing blow... so apparently Hyatt is not good enough/not hitting hard enough to make us remember him. Oh and btw 52 damage crushing blow via all 70s will surely make us remember.

 

[A Rev]

No!

I hit him for 52!!!

LOL, i dont care what your "maths" says...it happened! More than once, he was as shocked as anyone after the fight that he had to run from a sampire, a disarm of 30 and 2 crushings he was pretty much dead if he didnt have pots i would be over!...i also would bet he would beat the poop outta you!

Cowboy is right, people like you are whats wrong with the game...because you cant recreate something it cant happen! Your numbers are right and no one can prove you wrong!

LJ is a backup skill, added to tactics GM and Anat its devastating...but believe what you want and if you come to GL and attack my sampire i will hit you for 50 too.

 

[WarUltima]

You know, part of what is wrong with this game is people like yourself saying it is impossible. Have you tried it out? Have you been hit by someone playing this right? I am guessing no to both considering you could not even relate to what I was talking about. I would highly suggest you rethink things through.

again, corpse skin takes you to 60 resist...start there. mmk peanut?

Yes I did and to prove it I used official UO formulas to prove how you chumps doesnt know wtf ur talking about.

Again I have provided in-dpeth mathematical explanations on countering your delusions... including a 200 swings tests... where is yours...... kiddo?

No corpse skin does not take me to 60 because how I have all my suit made. Curse does take me to 60s, and not many LJ dexers can cast curse, and apple takes care of that.

And with 70s, 52 dmg crushing blow is still mathematically impossible unless Logrus ****ed up on the formulas. I will do some tests on crushing blow tonight.

 

[WarUltima]

No!

I hit him for 52!!!

LOL, i dont care what your "maths" says...it happened! More than once, he was as shocked as anyone after the fight that he had to run from a sampire, a disarm of 30 and 2 crushings he was pretty much dead if he didnt have pots i would be over!...i also would bet he would beat the poop outta you!

Cowboy is right, people like you are whats wrong with the game...because you cant recreate something it cant happen! Your numbers are right and no one can prove you wrong!

LJ is a backup skill, added to tactics GM and Anat its devastating...but believe what you want and if you come to GL and attack my sampire i will hit you for 50 too.

What's your character name? Do you PvP?

 

[A Rev]

Chars name is lionheart...and yes i do pvp (albeit not very well)

 

[Skrag]

forum pwnage

Aggressive, mocking attitude?
Detailed grasp of game mechanics?
Devastating use of the Math Attack?

 

[Restroom Cowboy]

Yes I did and to prove it I used official UO formulas to prove how you chumps doesnt know wtf ur talking about.

Again I have provided in-dpeth mathematical explanations on countering your delusions... including a 200 swings tests... where is yours...... kiddo?

No corpse skin does not take me to 60 because how I have all my suit made. Curse does take me to 60s, and not many LJ dexers can cast curse, and apple takes care of that.

And with 70s, 52 dmg crushing blow is still mathematically impossible unless Logrus ****ed up on the formulas. I will do some tests on crushing blow tonight.

As a dexxer you have more room for resists on your suits...mages do not have the same luxury. Apple only helps every 15 seconds...3 swings with this axe takes a fraction of that time with 50SSI and high stam.

You obviously haven't tested this out...had you tested it out we would not be discussing this. If your suit is in the 70s with corpse skin, just exactly how did you test what I am talking about? How about A Rev?

 

[A Rev]

As i said i run 60ssi with 180 stam, all 70's (in vamp) and all the other lovely mods including 100% DI.

Im a sampire as i said so i run with GM Anat, tactics and LJ 120 swords.

More than one occasion against more than one person (people i would be VERY surprised if ran anything less than 70's! 3 mages 2 dexxers at the moment spring to instant memory) where hit for 52 crushings. General hits where high 20's (occasional disarms at 30something).

 

[AzSel]

Im pretty sure the crit chance was bumped from 5% to 10% chance.

 

[WarUltima]

Im pretty sure the crit chance was bumped from 5% to 10% chance.

That's what I thought too.
But according to my 200 swing sample with ornate axes this is most likely not the case unfortunately.

200 landed blows...
8 crits total...

Swing 1 to 100 test done on Sonoma shard. 4 total crits.
Swing 101 to 200 test done on TC1. 4 total crits.

 

[WarUltima]

As a dexxer you have more room for resists on your suits...mages do not have the same luxury. Apple only helps every 15 seconds...3 swings with this axe takes a fraction of that time with 50SSI and high stam.

You obviously haven't tested this out...had you tested it out we would not be discussing this. If your suit is in the 70s with corpse skin, just exactly how did you test what I am talking about? How about A Rev?

First of all I assume all capable pvpers having my level in suit crafting (yes we dont run 60s I know its very very difficult for you to believe but unfortunately thats the truth).

It's not uncommon of a "corpse proof" suit. Which has 75 in fire and poison resistance. And on several of my suits where intensities allow with pre-imbue I craft them in 85 physical/fire and poison to be completely immune to corpse proof (you as a myst mage I am suprisied you have little knowledge in suit crafting especially prot cleansing wind being such a powerful stay alive tool). The physical at 85 allows my mages to occasionally drop into protection to get out of "oh ****" situation when I really need to.

But again you cant even list your arguments with simple numbers with the official formulas given to you, let along testing anything.

It's my actual ingame test samples and math proves vs your "because I said so". how am I gonna take you seriously when your arguments are nothing but "I have no clue but what happened was...".

 

[A Rev]

I think we all know that the formulas can be wrong, inaccurate or mis-interpreted.

Im not denying you have tested with 200 swings but since the patch that char is pretty much all ive been playing (and suit is even better now that stupid enhance tool was released).

I cant give numbers of swings but in about a month we are probably looking at almost a million (1.25ss on an ornate). Maybe only a 1/3 of those have been "PvP" when my solo spawns get raided but i can almost guarantee the people im hitting are all 70's (i discounted the pro mage who i hit for 60's and assumed he didnt account).

It might be slightly different given the DI from anat and tactics and LJ but the damage output per swing is massive! Add crushing in to boot and im about to make a 4/6 bush LJ (just need to drop poisoning for LJ and re-build suit with wood armour and 300SSI)

Edit:

Not sure if this matters but the UO calc thing does give me base damage of 72-80 with an ornate.

 

[[JD]]

Lumberjacks can still harvest wood much more efficiently than the non lumberjack.

This made me chuckle.

 

[WarUltima]

I think we all know that the formulas can be wrong, inaccurate or mis-interpreted.

Im not denying you have tested with 200 swings but since the patch that char is pretty much all ive been playing (and suit is even better now that stupid enhance tool was released).

I cant give numbers of swings but in about a month we are probably looking at almost a million (1.25ss on an ornate). Maybe only a 1/3 of those have been "PvP" when my solo spawns get raided but i can almost guarantee the people im hitting are all 70's (i discounted the pro mage who i hit for 60's and assumed he didnt account).

It might be slightly different given the DI from anat and tactics and LJ but the damage output per swing is massive! Add crushing in to boot and im about to make a 4/6 bush LJ (just need to drop poisoning for LJ and re-build suit with wood armour and 300SSI)

Edit:

Not sure if this matters but the UO calc thing does give me base damage of 72-80 with an ornate.

Again, didnt you and Cowboy read logrus's post? He confirmed my calculation on how the whole crit/LJ damage is calculated.
So the formula says I am right. The DEV says same which fits the formulas... what else do you have to say other than "because I said so"?

That's correct... if you have a 72-80 base damage with an ornate
This is essentially 21-24 damage against straight 70s (where all none-******** PvPers have). Note that in UO the damage is always rounded down to a whole number. This means 21.99 damage gets rounded down to 21.

So according to the calculator you will deal 21-24 damage on all swings against all 70 opponents. This is 31-36 damage on ALL none crit crushing blows. So according to the calculator your claim of your crushing blows doing a min damage of 42 and max is 52 vs all 70s is again mathmatically impossible...
(Oh just for those who with subpar suits in 60 resists... the 21-24 damage vs 70s, becomes 28-32 vs 60s which is 42-48 crushing blow which is STILL NOT QUITE 52 damage)


And according to MY MATH which is confirmed by Logrus which at the event of a crit 70 DI of the ornate axe' base damage is added to your regular base swing damage.
So in English translation your 72-80 base damage goes up to 85-94 (4% of the time according to my test)
85-94 base damage is 25-28 final damage against 70s which in the event of critting with crushing blow will deal 38-42 final damage against all 70s. (this will happen to about 5% of all your crushing blow since you cannot control crit). So against 70s with your crushing blow you will deal a minimum damage of 31 and a maximum damage of 42. No more no less assuming you are not under the effect of Curse, Weaken, Statloss and not having focusing gem applied to your ornate axe.

In the event where your victim is wearing a sub-par suit/under the effect of curse/corpse skin and have 60 resists... Your maximum crushing blow damage assuming it's also a crit will be 56.

So to achieve 56 damage crushing blow you have to satisfy the following
1. You have 150 Strength
2. You have 120 Tactics
3. You have 120 Anatomy
4. You have 100 DI from item mods.
5. You have to use a crushing blow special move
6. You have to crit with a crushing blow special move
7. Your opponent cannot have more than 60 in respective resistance.
8. Your damage RNG roll will have to land on 141 (the roll will be between 127 and 141)

If you satisfy 1 thru 7 listed above, your crit crushing blow will deal 50-56. (38-42 vs 70s).

Your claim that you can consistently crushing blow anyone in all 70s for 43-52 is incorrect. And is in fact mathematically impossible.


Again I listed everything according to the official forumulas thats provided AND actual ingame tests which is how I found out LJ Crit prodived 70% more DI and not 100% on top of the 30% from GM lumberjack which is again confirmed by Logrus. I can probably officially call myself the 1st player in UO ever to figure out how GM Lumberjack crit works since the lastest publish. Also according to my tests, the GM LJ crit is around 4% which is very far off from the stated 10% in the publish note.

@ Cowboy... it's clear who did the actual ingame test and who didnt. If the ingame tests werent already done, this thread wouldn't have existed. And I dont have to have a sample of a noob running all 60 to confirm the number assuming there's no BUG in the official formulas and Logrus is NOT insane and making up lies just so he can **** with our minds.

 

[Picus at the office]

I think the topic at hand was really talking about just a plain old hit without the crushing and such added in.

I'd love to see if the dev team could add anymore information to the discussion?

 

[KoolAidAddict]

LJ is a backup skill, added to tactics GM and Anat its devastating

You run gm tacs and anat and Lj, is that right?

 

[WarUltima]

I think the topic at hand was really talking about just a plain old hit without the crushing and such added in.

I'd love to see if the dev team could add anymore information to the discussion?

I can answer this

just regular hit using an ornate axe vs all 70 resist.

None crit GM Lumberjack gives you on average 2 more damage
At the event of crit will add 4 more damage on average on top of the +2 damage you get passively.
e.g. An elven swordsman with 0 lumberjacking uses an ornate axe doing regular swing will do an average of 22 damage to you in 70 resist suit. Same swordsman picks up 100 Lumberjacking skill will now deal 24 damage to you, and 1 in every 20 swing will deal 28 damage to you.

So short version is as the following...
Having GM Lumberjacking using an ornate axe gives you 2 bonus damage and 4 more damage 5% of the time in the event of a crit, against 70 resist.

 

[Gorbs]

That's what I thought too.
But according to my 200 swing sample with ornate axes this is most likely not the case unfortunately.

200 landed blows...
8 crits total...

Swing 1 to 100 test done on Sonoma shard. 4 total crits.
Swing 101 to 200 test done on TC1. 4 total crits.

Did you hit 100% of the time, or were there misses in those 200 swings?

 

[Cloak&Dagger]

Did you hit 100% of the time, or were there misses in those 200 swings?

It says 200 landed blows...I would assume there are misses, but the misses do not count towards the 200. So just assume he missed 50% of the time, that means he swung 400 times.

 

[Cloak&Dagger]

As a dexxer you have more room for resists on your suits...mages do not have the same luxury. Apple only helps every 15 seconds...3 swings with this axe takes a fraction of that time with 50SSI and high stam.

You obviously haven't tested this out...had you tested it out we would not be discussing this. If your suit is in the 70s with corpse skin, just exactly how did you test what I am talking about? How about A Rev?

Will you stop with your mage vs Dexxer BS. I mean seriously I could get all the stats I needed and still 85 fire and poison, I just find it pointless to go that high since being cursed still brings you down to 60 regardless.

Explain to me how it is so much harder for a mage again? They need no more props than an Axer, 20lrc vs 8SI works out to the same over all props and SI uses more intensity than lrc does, so technically the dexxer loses out more than a mage does. Can't have SI on a ring or bracelet, and you can cancel FCR out with needing HCI (again HCI has a higher intesity than FCR) DI needs to be maxed vs SDI on a mage. And the only other mage prop is FC which could be countered with needing SSI, although the prop intensity is not as high, it still levels the prop needs.

Did I miss anything?

 

[WarUltima]

Did you hit 100% of the time, or were there misses in those 200 swings?

It's 200 landed blows. 200 numbers floated up.
8 total crits, and its not like it's "easy to miss" as the minimum crit damage is always higher than the max none-crit damage. So scoring a crit is very obvious.

Again it was 200 consective blows.
I did the first 100 hits on a production shard which scored 4 crits.
So I thought okay, maybe the 10% crit chance just didnt make into the last publish thus I logged on to TC1 and did another 100 hits which as well resulted in 4 crits.

If someone would also confirm again my "actual ingame tests" results.
It will be greatly helpful. As a 13 yr UO players I have experienced a few account bond/character bond bugs. So not saying its likely but it'd be great if someone else would actually step up and help with the testing.

Again the exact results that I got with an ornate axe with GM lumberjacking skill are 8 crits out of 200 hits.

As for the myth of dexers takes less mods than mages I agree but not entirely true. Especially for someone like me who attempt to achieve maximum possible stats. While mages needs 100 lrc they are also able to neglect stamima completely. For an archer suit they have to focus on all 3 stats... HP+Stam+Mana vs Mages HP+Mana+LRC. LMC is generally needed globally. So armor wise it pretty much broke even.

Weapon wise...
Mages vs Dexer is generally SC vs SSI and SSI weights slightly more.
Mage weapon -20 will require 100% intensity which also provides the mages 100 free skill points. I will say it pretty much breaks even there as well.
Mage weapons can usually ignore DI while a damage oriented weapon for dexers the DI on it is usually needed.

Oh well, I play both dexers and mages about equal amount of the time. The only mage of my that I am not actively playing is my myst mage which is sitting on a dead shard with virtually zero action.

A good practice for people who try to come up with a good/constructive arguments is to actually know how things from from each side. Most uhallers pretend that they know wtf they are talking about but they really dont. They try to make **** up because when the whole "sense of losing" is happening when someone obviously knows the game better and is crushing every single of their "arguments... or to be more exact... guesses and speculations" with actual ingame test data and official formulas AND the DEVs confirms him.

When is the last time I replied to any of the fishing posts/pvm threads thats been floating around? I dont... because I have no clue how new fishing stuff works and is not very active in PvM. But when it comes down to an discussion or arguments... always go with the facts and reinforce my views with actual ingame tests results THEN I compare to my results to the known official formulas provided (which usually matches them) THEN you get a discussion / valid arguments... you know not some "arguments" like "You are wrong because I SAID SO".

 

[Lynk]

As i said i run 60ssi with 180 stam, all 70's (in vamp) and all the other lovely mods including 100% DI.

Im a sampire as i said so i run with GM Anat, tactics and LJ 120 swords.

More than one occasion against more than one person (people i would be VERY surprised if ran anything less than 70's! 3 mages 2 dexxers at the moment spring to instant memory) where hit for 52 crushings. General hits where high 20's (occasional disarms at 30something).

You run only GM tactics and anatomy and have LJ? Whats the point? Might as well just drop LJ and put your points in tact/anat...

 

[Lynk]

I see what WarUltima is saying.. but I don't really agree with it.

I've had LJ on my sampire before the pub came out to beef it up and I felt it was a worthwhile investment then.

It can be effective in PvP. I toyed around on test center with enough mage/eval to curse someone and ran around with an elemental axe and was hitting very hard. Some people I 2 shotted if hit spell went off.