Not to forget the change that was brought live many years ago and made monsters respawn instantly and endlessly. This change may suit the resource farmers, but it destroys any dungeon adventure.
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One of the worst posts I have EVER read I poasted eariler and you listne to NO ONE
:loser:
You seriously have NO idea what you are talking about since there is a Ballie room were NOTHING else spawns in hyloth actually Two. One room all by itself and the larger room on the way to the dual Daemons were only a ballie spawns unless somone drags critters in.
As for the rest of this post you have listened to NOTHING any one says all you do is attack their ideas.
Some like your thoughts which you do not comment on and others disagreee in which you quote partial posts to try and legitimize your point.
Your logic is not sound by any means, it is a selfish idea you whish to impleemnt to satisfy your own ideas. Over 65% of theses posts disagree with you, get over it except it, move on. :bowdown:
Again if you really want to her what PLAYERS think make it a poll, sit back, and count who likes your ideas. If not don't respond its not worth it.
And you definatly don't speak for me or have ANY idea what MOST of the UO community are about.
:loser:
:loser:
You seriously have NO idea what you are talking about since there is a Ballie room were NOTHING else spawns in hyloth actually Two. One room all by itself and the larger room on the way to the dual Daemons were only a ballie spawns unless somone drags critters in.As for the rest of this post you have listened to NOTHING any one says all you do is attack their ideas.
Some like your thoughts which you do not comment on and others disagreee in which you quote partial posts to try and legitimize your point.
Your logic is not sound by any means, it is a selfish idea you whish to impleemnt to satisfy your own ideas. Over 65% of theses posts disagree with you, get over it except it, move on. :bowdown:
Again if you really want to her what PLAYERS think make it a poll, sit back, and count who likes your ideas. If not don't respond its not worth it.
And you definatly don't speak for me or have ANY idea what MOST of the UO community are about.As I see it, the real problems with legacy dungeons are 2.
#1)
The spawns build up. Sometimes in those dungeons spawn builds up and builds up toa point that even if they are minor monsters, they become so many that a player wanting to access those dungeons has so much trouble given the crowds of monsters that have built up over time and so think, "why bother".
#2)
There is no feeling of accomplishment because spawns are never ending, there is no stop to them, period.
A player that might think to want and rid a dungeon by some spawn and then enjoy watching the emptyness of that given dungeon area for at least some time, cannot.
The more one kills the more will respawn, endlessly. There is not 1 chance to get a feeling of accomplishing something like clearing out an area of a spawn say, for a few hours before spawn restarts anew.
This is yet another side effect of focusing a game all or mostly on items (and their modifiers...). Spawns become only a place to farm for "items" and therefore, players only seek those spawns which are the hit of the moment because they yield given, particular items and neglect all other spawns.
So, the spawns which are "hit of the moment" are often crowded and a pain to be done (because of the crowds of players doing them) while other spawns are deserted.
The whole concept of the game should be rethought over and the focus should, as I see it, be shifted away from items and more onto skills and all spawns should be rethought over, accordingly.
Until there is a complete revamping of all Legacy Dungeons spawns AND re-spawn engine, I suspect Legacy Dungeons will pretty much stay empty of players.
J
[JD]
Guest
i'd be up for a legacy dungeon overhaul. they don't get used as much as they should be. just take player feedback into account, kthx.
Re: One of the worst posts I have EVER read I poasted eariler and you listne to NO ON
Seriously, both areas are pretty much wall-to-wall gargoyles and they can open doors. Have you ever been to Hythloth before?
Seriously, both areas are pretty much wall-to-wall gargoyles and they can open doors. Have you ever been to Hythloth before?
Re: One of the worst posts I have EVER read I poasted eariler and you listne to NO ON
I can guess what's happened here.
You're both right.
Skrag is right that the balron spawns with a shed load of stuff around it - in Trammel.
Wiens is right that the balron spawns alone. - in Felucca.
Having hunted extensively in the dungeon on both facets, I actually do know what I'm talking about
I can guess what's happened here.You're both right.
Skrag is right that the balron spawns with a shed load of stuff around it - in Trammel.
Wiens is right that the balron spawns alone. - in Felucca.
Having hunted extensively in the dungeon on both facets, I actually do know what I'm talking about
Re: One of the worst posts I have EVER read I poasted eariler and you listne to NO ON
I used to go to Fel Hyth to bang out double-fame daemons as fast as they could spawn, but I'm pretty sure I don't need to tell anyone that "do nothing, everyone can go to Fel" isn't really going to revive any legacy dungeons.
I used to go to Fel Hyth to bang out double-fame daemons as fast as they could spawn, but I'm pretty sure I don't need to tell anyone that "do nothing, everyone can go to Fel" isn't really going to revive any legacy dungeons.
It is interesting, in that apparently the developers of however many years ago KNEW that less trash spawn made for a better dungeon, and used this fact to try to make the Felucca dungeons more attractive.
But it's been a full decade and I think we know by now that PVMers aren't about to flood Fel Legacy Dungeons to be farmed by champ spawners or whatever. So there's really no reason to leave the Tram Legacy Dungeons nerfed up with garbage spawn.
But it's been a full decade and I think we know by now that PVMers aren't about to flood Fel Legacy Dungeons to be farmed by champ spawners or whatever. So there's really no reason to leave the Tram Legacy Dungeons nerfed up with garbage spawn.
F
Fayled Dhreams
Guest
I disagree ...
Fel HAS an overabundance of trash spawn ... they are called PvPers
Point to Fayled
R
RavenWinterHawk
Guest
Thats silly.
Speak for yourself.
How about adding something to the dungeons that make it fun. And in there you fight monsters that want to kill you.
Speak for yourself.
How about adding something to the dungeons that make it fun. And in there you fight monsters that want to kill you.
B
Beer_Cayse
Guest
That was a tad low ... even for you. PvPers are people too, ya know! <smile>
Seriously both PvM and PvP have their place in UO - they just don't seem to peacefully coexist, or some folks don't want them to coexist. Skrag, I really wouldn't mind a legacy dungeon makeover, but how to do it in both facets and make it equitable for the primary play styles of them?
Seriously both PvM and PvP have their place in UO - they just don't seem to peacefully coexist, or some folks don't want them to coexist. Skrag, I really wouldn't mind a legacy dungeon makeover, but how to do it in both facets and make it equitable for the primary play styles of them?
/agree
Complete dungeon revamp needed. The dungeon used to have themes that made them interesting. Now they have a bunch of garbled crap and have nothing to do with a story or the anti virtues they represent. I smell a booster pack coming! (I say smell because the booster idea stinks.)
Making the dungeons have some meaning would be nice. Taking into account all skills would be nice. Want to get to level 3 of dungeon x? Well you need a gm lockpick. Need to get to level 4? Well, you need a mage that can teleport to a lever. Need to get to level 5? Then you need a bard to play a tune to put an indestructable demon to sleep. The sky is the limit when one uses their imagination.
Newbies can hang on the easy levels and they can *gasp* actually get more difficult the further you go down them. There is enough options to make everyone except the purists happy in this regard it just takes thought and planning. Maybe a previous dev team was working on this before the current team took over and they can dig that up and take credit for it themselves in a half assed manner. *winks*
Complete dungeon revamp needed. The dungeon used to have themes that made them interesting. Now they have a bunch of garbled crap and have nothing to do with a story or the anti virtues they represent. I smell a booster pack coming! (I say smell because the booster idea stinks.)
Making the dungeons have some meaning would be nice. Taking into account all skills would be nice. Want to get to level 3 of dungeon x? Well you need a gm lockpick. Need to get to level 4? Well, you need a mage that can teleport to a lever. Need to get to level 5? Then you need a bard to play a tune to put an indestructable demon to sleep. The sky is the limit when one uses their imagination.
Newbies can hang on the easy levels and they can *gasp* actually get more difficult the further you go down them. There is enough options to make everyone except the purists happy in this regard it just takes thought and planning. Maybe a previous dev team was working on this before the current team took over and they can dig that up and take credit for it themselves in a half assed manner. *winks*
That's not my interpretation of the reasoning. And while I am only guessing with no actual knowledge, I guess my guess is as good as your guess?
My interpretation would be: quantities of lower spawn that inhibit afk farming in Trammel are not needed in Felucca, because players will effectively deal with afk farmers foolish enough to attempt it on that facet.
You will agree, I assume, that any notice on general chat/message boards/guild vents that 'there's a scripter farming *this* creature in *that* dungeon' would be instantly met by willing volunteers to go pk the miscreant?
No point to Fayled. Just failed. You show your ignorance when you bash a group of people based on their play style.
Sounds like a chore. UO isn't really a forced-grouping game. Unless everything behind these obstacles craps artifacts of ultimate uberness all over the place, nobody will bother.
It's been ten years. It's safe to say that, outside of a few oddballs, the PVM community is never coming back to Felucca. Crabbing that the spawn differences should serve as an incentive to get people into Fel is pointless since it's... Just. Not. Happening. Ever.
Or is this some butthurt urge to punish carebears for not wanting to play in Felucca? If so, it's a pretty weak punishment. Trammel Hythloth might be a mess of gargoyles and assorted trash spawn, but all I have to do is run to the Fan Dancer Dojo and lure a couple fan dancers safely down the hall. Then I can farm balrons in utter safety with no real trash spawn for all eternity.
So no, chuckles, nobody is sitting around weighing the relative merits of trash spawn versus PVP risk. They're just going to other Trammel dungeons.
How does one AFK farm... say... a shadow wyrm? Maybe with an illegal program and a clever script, I guess, but someone going to those lengths isn't going to go "Oh no, annoying wyvern spawn! I am confounded!"
Besides, anyone who sees an AFK farmer in a Trammel dungeon and doesn't like it is going to "accidentally" pull a few extra monsters into the room and then go invisible and we all know it.
F
Fayled Dhreams
Guest
True enough ... and since it is neither a "solo master-able" game ...
It is indeed a "blend of both" (Solo/Group) ... agreed?
Loot Tables and Spawner mechanics ... *ahem* addresses the "big picture"
Yer welcome
I agree with the main idea that legacy Dungeons need more that those stupid arties they added time ago, I personally collected a full set in 2 days so, they called that a revamp?? oh well... Anyway I dont agree that creatures in legacy dungeons are useless I ensure you that every single creature has a way to get good profits from them, you need to figure out how to and what template u need, I make loads of money from stupid creatures you wont even believe , but it really works , tbh one of the most xciting things for me playing UO is just stroll around and kiling mobs trying to find the way to optimize the profits and most of the time I get surprised the results you can get from aparently stupid mobs. Just a little example lizard men in despise can be xtremly profitable if you play a thief.
Then why isn't everyone doing that? And how do you plan to make them? Coming up with ways that players could be changed to accomodate the dungeons is pretty pointless unless you have mind control powers. The dungeons need to change to accomodate the players.
I'm not thinking up clever ways to turn profits from trash spawn in legacy dungeons, I'm just going to a non-legacy dungeon and blitzing instant-respawn succubi as fast as I can kill them. Twenty minutes later I have all the gold I can carry, enough fame to die a billion times while keeping Lord, and as much shot at useful items as you have farming anything. But yeah, have fun figuring out how to make money off those hellhounds in Hythloth or whatever.
Jeebus I love those succubi in the dojo. My fame hasn't been below 20k for more than 24 hours at a stretch since I came back to UO. Same fame as a balron and 1000+ gold but you can kill 'em like three per minute. Yummy.
Z
Zyon Rockler
Guest
I like the idea of having to work in teams and needing skills. For example: lockpicking, to unlock doors. I think that sets a higher standard. Also, there should be alternate paths, so that if a door is locked, maybe there would be a dangerous passage way that could be taken instead. So, essentially you have an easy path that uses skill and understanding and one that uses brute force.
One of the things I thought was interesting, was removing the spawn. I'm not sure but would that not allow for more detail to go into the dungeon itself? So, it might actually be something to consider if it would mean there would be a benefit.
So, this would suggest, spawn that is triggered. For example: Trapdoor Spiders but to stay with the OP, we could place holes in the ground where the ice serpent would come out of if someone stepped on the hole. The ice elemental might form from falling ice, which might be caused from vibrations. Such as spells being cast and snow elementals might be created from running.
So, different spawns would be triggered by the actions of a player, rather than already being there waiting for someone.
I think before you could revamp the dungeon, you need to redo the spawn and the way it interacts with other spawn. For example: The ultimate challenge we would consider the player. So, why not start with creating equally matched spawn?
An example would be: To create a group, tamer with mare and beatle, stealth, ninja, archer, mage and fighter. Now create a system that would cause them to work very similar to humans, making different decisions. Like, the dexer might decide, should he put a bandage on the tamer or chase after someone to attack, where the mage might decide, should he heal the tamer's pet or use a spell to attack.
So, a type of artifical intelligence that is used by the possibility of outcomes, causing them to be both very powerful and also very flawed.
Also, a way for a dungeon to actually change, I think would be very important because the dungeon would never be the same and again, using random spell triggers to create the spawn within. Like, a dead body laying against the wall. Getting near this might cause a ghost to appear but it might also reveal a key within the corpse.
So, when the server would reset, it would rebuild the dungeon using pre-selected pieces that would form a Labyrnth and create ultimate goals, such as seeking an artifact or a buff or possibly a spawn that could be tamed, something of interest but more importantly an unknown interest, along an unknown path of unknown danger.
One of the things I thought was interesting, was removing the spawn. I'm not sure but would that not allow for more detail to go into the dungeon itself? So, it might actually be something to consider if it would mean there would be a benefit.
So, this would suggest, spawn that is triggered. For example: Trapdoor Spiders but to stay with the OP, we could place holes in the ground where the ice serpent would come out of if someone stepped on the hole. The ice elemental might form from falling ice, which might be caused from vibrations. Such as spells being cast and snow elementals might be created from running.
So, different spawns would be triggered by the actions of a player, rather than already being there waiting for someone.
I think before you could revamp the dungeon, you need to redo the spawn and the way it interacts with other spawn. For example: The ultimate challenge we would consider the player. So, why not start with creating equally matched spawn?
An example would be: To create a group, tamer with mare and beatle, stealth, ninja, archer, mage and fighter. Now create a system that would cause them to work very similar to humans, making different decisions. Like, the dexer might decide, should he put a bandage on the tamer or chase after someone to attack, where the mage might decide, should he heal the tamer's pet or use a spell to attack.
So, a type of artifical intelligence that is used by the possibility of outcomes, causing them to be both very powerful and also very flawed.
Also, a way for a dungeon to actually change, I think would be very important because the dungeon would never be the same and again, using random spell triggers to create the spawn within. Like, a dead body laying against the wall. Getting near this might cause a ghost to appear but it might also reveal a key within the corpse.
So, when the server would reset, it would rebuild the dungeon using pre-selected pieces that would form a Labyrnth and create ultimate goals, such as seeking an artifact or a buff or possibly a spawn that could be tamed, something of interest but more importantly an unknown interest, along an unknown path of unknown danger.
Come on dude, I'm just talking about pulling the gargoyles out of the balron room. You're pretty much designing an entirely new game. The difference is, I can have some feeble hope that what I want might actually happen someday.
It does sound fun. (Not sold on needing lockpickers, and the tougher parts of the dungeon people would just run through.) But that's way too vast an idea to be a realistic suggestion.
It does sound fun. (Not sold on needing lockpickers, and the tougher parts of the dungeon people would just run through.) But that's way too vast an idea to be a realistic suggestion.
Z
Zyon Rockler
Guest
I thought I was being realistic. It creates a way for the system to automatically change spawns rather than everytime someone gets tired of something having to revamp the whole dungeon.
If you want a spawn box with a drop down menu, that you can place at your house and then say, pick, something like a bally and then kill the bally and then when you get tired of that, change it to a different spawn, that's realistic. That's what you're talking about.
Pulling a couple gargoyles out of a bally room is not gonna make you happy. You'll get tired of the bally, then you'll go to another room where there's going to be something else that needs to be moved. So, now what you're doing is just moving everything around. So, that's what I gave you, an idea that would move things around.
In my opinion, these dungeons are way to weak. When I go into a dungeon, I want to see a guy with his head cut off, running towards the door and have his head roll up and hit my foot. That's realistic. You know how many years we waited for spawns to learn to move around a rock? Do you know how many years we waited for spawn to become intelligent enough to heal itself?
What's realistic, is the fact, that we're going to spend another 20 years waiting for real game changing experiences, which by that time, will be common place.
I mean what is it you really want? Just some minor changes or for things to be changed in a way that there's a plan of actually achieving something that would be realistic in the future.
If you want a spawn box with a drop down menu, that you can place at your house and then say, pick, something like a bally and then kill the bally and then when you get tired of that, change it to a different spawn, that's realistic. That's what you're talking about.
Pulling a couple gargoyles out of a bally room is not gonna make you happy. You'll get tired of the bally, then you'll go to another room where there's going to be something else that needs to be moved. So, now what you're doing is just moving everything around. So, that's what I gave you, an idea that would move things around.
In my opinion, these dungeons are way to weak. When I go into a dungeon, I want to see a guy with his head cut off, running towards the door and have his head roll up and hit my foot. That's realistic. You know how many years we waited for spawns to learn to move around a rock? Do you know how many years we waited for spawn to become intelligent enough to heal itself?
What's realistic, is the fact, that we're going to spend another 20 years waiting for real game changing experiences, which by that time, will be common place.
I mean what is it you really want? Just some minor changes or for things to be changed in a way that there's a plan of actually achieving something that would be realistic in the future.
Revamping the legacy dungeons (by tweaking the spawners in a way that divides spawn up by skill level in a logical fashion) is a straightforward and relatively simple effort with obvious benefits.
Obvious, that is, unless you're one of those people who wants to argue that random garbage spawn everywhere is TOTALLY GREAT, and the dungeons should be left abandoned FOREVER if that's how long it takes everyone else to realize it.
Because that's all I'm hearing from most of you. Trash spawn is great for ridiculous reasons X, Y, and Z (reasons nobody else in UO cares about or the dungeons wouldn't be abandoned) so let's leave it the way it is.
Zyon at least came up with a creative alternative idea. The problems are...
1) It's not nearly as much fun as you're trying to make it sound. Ice elementals spawning around you because you cast a spell, while a system message you're not reading says "ice falls from vibrations bla bla" isn't really that thrilling. Snow elementals that spawned because you ran through snow or whatever are just more garbage to blow past before it can even lock on as you run to the ice fiend room.
2) It's an incredibly complex and overwrought solution to the problem, one that would involve a massive from-the-ground-up coding and design effort. I don't really even know where to begin driving this point home. They could completely delete all the spawn from every dungeon in the game and rework it from scratch for far less time and effort than this bizzare random dungeon system of yours.
Obvious, that is, unless you're one of those people who wants to argue that random garbage spawn everywhere is TOTALLY GREAT, and the dungeons should be left abandoned FOREVER if that's how long it takes everyone else to realize it.
Because that's all I'm hearing from most of you. Trash spawn is great for ridiculous reasons X, Y, and Z (reasons nobody else in UO cares about or the dungeons wouldn't be abandoned) so let's leave it the way it is.
Zyon at least came up with a creative alternative idea. The problems are...
1) It's not nearly as much fun as you're trying to make it sound. Ice elementals spawning around you because you cast a spell, while a system message you're not reading says "ice falls from vibrations bla bla" isn't really that thrilling. Snow elementals that spawned because you ran through snow or whatever are just more garbage to blow past before it can even lock on as you run to the ice fiend room.
2) It's an incredibly complex and overwrought solution to the problem, one that would involve a massive from-the-ground-up coding and design effort. I don't really even know where to begin driving this point home. They could completely delete all the spawn from every dungeon in the game and rework it from scratch for far less time and effort than this bizzare random dungeon system of yours.
I can see a case for segregating the differing spawns into areas based on difficulty. You're right in that I don't hunt balron in Hythloth Tram because I can't survive with all the little stuff joining in. Even with the long run in and out, Fel is a better prospect.
Z
Zyon Rockler
Guest
I think all of the ideas in the post work. Scaling, difficulty, adding in some spawn that is more powerful, champ like systems, renowns. You need to put everything together and roll with it.
My ideas are never going to be something that you can just throw into the game. The concept was meant to be, a new dungeon. Something simple that has a floor and walls, long hallways and rooms. I'm not sure if it will be complicated but it's very easy to imagine how a computer might connect the pieces. Like a cross might intersect with three connecting hallways and one room. It might decide to connect two long hallways together and then the objective room.
So, the example doesn't really sound that complicated compared to the idea of redoing all of the dungeons, plus the fact that, when you're done doing the dungeons, it will only be a matter of time and people will become bored again. So, if you're talking about resources and time, you will probably want something that you will not have to redo. So, I was trying to suggest something that will never be the same.
When people run past a spawn to avoid it, I think it's partially because they don't feel responsible for it. If spawns were triggered and created so that you could not run by them, it would make more sense. Now dungeon designs aren't really set up to stop you before moving into the next part, so you can just run by.
If the dungeon were designed where you would have to kill the spawn and then maybe a door would open so you could go to the next level.
So, in the case of the dungeons we have now, the spawns would have to be the ones who stop you from just running by.
An example: You go into Ice Dungeon, you hear a yell, then you hear the thumping of heavy feet in the snow and you're greeted by an Ice Ogre. You try to run by the Ice Ogre but it's able to reach out and trip you and you slide. Maybe you're dismounted, now you get up to run again and it casts an Ice Wall that freezes you. Your health begins to drop from the extreme cold and the Ice Ogre punches you and again you're able to run.
But the Ice Wall remains causing you to run back to the enterance, where you make the decision to leave or fight the Ice Ogre.
So, what i'm trying to say is, is that you make the spawn more intelligent, so you can't just run past it.
One more example: You're in Fire Dungeon and there are Six Fire Elementals. There's a bridge you have to cross over to continue through the dungeon but the problem is, the bridge is on fire and if you were to simply run across, it would burn you and possibly the bridge would break or you would fall through down into the lava but if you have to kill the Fire Elementals, causing the flames on the bridge to go out, you no longer have worthless spawn that you can just run by and you gain passage.
My ideas are never going to be something that you can just throw into the game. The concept was meant to be, a new dungeon. Something simple that has a floor and walls, long hallways and rooms. I'm not sure if it will be complicated but it's very easy to imagine how a computer might connect the pieces. Like a cross might intersect with three connecting hallways and one room. It might decide to connect two long hallways together and then the objective room.
So, the example doesn't really sound that complicated compared to the idea of redoing all of the dungeons, plus the fact that, when you're done doing the dungeons, it will only be a matter of time and people will become bored again. So, if you're talking about resources and time, you will probably want something that you will not have to redo. So, I was trying to suggest something that will never be the same.
When people run past a spawn to avoid it, I think it's partially because they don't feel responsible for it. If spawns were triggered and created so that you could not run by them, it would make more sense. Now dungeon designs aren't really set up to stop you before moving into the next part, so you can just run by.
If the dungeon were designed where you would have to kill the spawn and then maybe a door would open so you could go to the next level.
So, in the case of the dungeons we have now, the spawns would have to be the ones who stop you from just running by.
An example: You go into Ice Dungeon, you hear a yell, then you hear the thumping of heavy feet in the snow and you're greeted by an Ice Ogre. You try to run by the Ice Ogre but it's able to reach out and trip you and you slide. Maybe you're dismounted, now you get up to run again and it casts an Ice Wall that freezes you. Your health begins to drop from the extreme cold and the Ice Ogre punches you and again you're able to run.
But the Ice Wall remains causing you to run back to the enterance, where you make the decision to leave or fight the Ice Ogre.
So, what i'm trying to say is, is that you make the spawn more intelligent, so you can't just run past it.
One more example: You're in Fire Dungeon and there are Six Fire Elementals. There's a bridge you have to cross over to continue through the dungeon but the problem is, the bridge is on fire and if you were to simply run across, it would burn you and possibly the bridge would break or you would fall through down into the lava but if you have to kill the Fire Elementals, causing the flames on the bridge to go out, you no longer have worthless spawn that you can just run by and you gain passage.
R
RavenWinterHawk
Guest
Complete and utter theme based randomization is the only way to go for any changes in the legacy dungeon.
All you all are doing (above in the other posts) is creating dungeons minus the crap you all don't like. Which means 5 people will agree and 5 will disagree that your crap is crap or your crap is the way to go.
The single fact you are designing what should be there in the dungeons is silly. Sure an idea like a champ is fine. Just dont say it will be here and take X to launch it and once launched XX to kill and you will all get blah blah.
Now 1000 random imps would be stupid. But a smart scaled randomization of creatures pulled out of a theme is fine.
Through out the dungeon add random puzzles, strange doors, pitfalls, and unique treasures. Things that CAN ONLY BE FOUND BY ACTUALLY TAKING THE TIME TO WANDER AND EXPLORE. Geez.
This whole turn UO took with telling us what the prize is, how rare it is, the chances of getting it, does nothing but...
Create a lot of people yelling the RNG is screwed up.
Don't confuse theme based randomization with the BS many use to say randomizing is silly. Yes it would be silly to have 10000 creatures spawn at the door. It would not be silly to see orc invasions fade in and out of dungeons.
Unless we want to explain to the orcs and monsters where then can go and how then can kill us.
All you all are doing (above in the other posts) is creating dungeons minus the crap you all don't like. Which means 5 people will agree and 5 will disagree that your crap is crap or your crap is the way to go.
The single fact you are designing what should be there in the dungeons is silly. Sure an idea like a champ is fine. Just dont say it will be here and take X to launch it and once launched XX to kill and you will all get blah blah.
Now 1000 random imps would be stupid. But a smart scaled randomization of creatures pulled out of a theme is fine.
Through out the dungeon add random puzzles, strange doors, pitfalls, and unique treasures. Things that CAN ONLY BE FOUND BY ACTUALLY TAKING THE TIME TO WANDER AND EXPLORE. Geez.
This whole turn UO took with telling us what the prize is, how rare it is, the chances of getting it, does nothing but...
Create a lot of people yelling the RNG is screwed up.
Don't confuse theme based randomization with the BS many use to say randomizing is silly. Yes it would be silly to have 10000 creatures spawn at the door. It would not be silly to see orc invasions fade in and out of dungeons.
Unless we want to explain to the orcs and monsters where then can go and how then can kill us.
Don't have to change any the current dungeons. There is already the mechanics of getting a key that is used to open a portal to an extra area. The SA Abyss bosses are an example. Take the badest critter like in Destard the Ancient Wyrm and 25% chance to get a key for that dungeons shrine. This portal can take a player and party to a new area or mirror of Destard with mix of new spawn and some leveling theme or whatever.
Player X doesn't want to rub leeft and right brain cell together to find another area to fight how they desire. Any player that has taken time to go about the whole game knows of a few other Bally spawn areas besides just the one they need altered to make them feel fuzzy. As far as gathering hides and scale from dragons and drakes in destard there are other areas and creatures for gathering. Maybe a Paragon will spawn in some and you will gain the earned and risk feeling over a grind. The new SA explorer quest and critters was great step towards Honed gathering and get more then leather in the end.
In the past grinding a bally spawn was in the end fame gold and rare chance for a good high end item. The gold and fame is covered so many ways there is no argument strong enough for old dungeon changes. The sad thing is the best loot item that can be gotten off a bally can be copied or outdone by an imbuer with scraps. Maybe just the high end critters have rare chances at the 6 mod loot would help like T chest have. I got a 6 mod ring from a lvl 3 they would never even approve as an artifact. The odds of high lvl mods meshing together is really what high end monster fighting is about.
I will stick with my Black Rock charged sash that burns charges on a timer when worn for the BR in pack effect. And an infected paragon earned marty would have Blackrock in the title and be a unique black color with red tint. Even wearing the sash in the brit lands or SE lands could have there own marty drop like ilsh and ML has. SE already has the TOT list items with already in place use for trade in. Tram / Fel is easy. Just have random loot item drop with the classic charges.
Bless/spell reflect/teleport/nightsight/stat increase/protection or weapon charges paralyze/spell strike/curse/poison and add whatever new spells to each group with mix of new skill spells.
It is just plainly the hunting area is huge with many options and nothing needs changing. More it needs a flavored topping. Just change direction and stop peeing in the wind and then complaining. Bend with the reed and take it's lead and your clothing will be drier.
Player X doesn't want to rub leeft and right brain cell together to find another area to fight how they desire. Any player that has taken time to go about the whole game knows of a few other Bally spawn areas besides just the one they need altered to make them feel fuzzy. As far as gathering hides and scale from dragons and drakes in destard there are other areas and creatures for gathering. Maybe a Paragon will spawn in some and you will gain the earned and risk feeling over a grind. The new SA explorer quest and critters was great step towards Honed gathering and get more then leather in the end.
In the past grinding a bally spawn was in the end fame gold and rare chance for a good high end item. The gold and fame is covered so many ways there is no argument strong enough for old dungeon changes. The sad thing is the best loot item that can be gotten off a bally can be copied or outdone by an imbuer with scraps. Maybe just the high end critters have rare chances at the 6 mod loot would help like T chest have. I got a 6 mod ring from a lvl 3 they would never even approve as an artifact. The odds of high lvl mods meshing together is really what high end monster fighting is about.
I will stick with my Black Rock charged sash that burns charges on a timer when worn for the BR in pack effect. And an infected paragon earned marty would have Blackrock in the title and be a unique black color with red tint. Even wearing the sash in the brit lands or SE lands could have there own marty drop like ilsh and ML has. SE already has the TOT list items with already in place use for trade in. Tram / Fel is easy. Just have random loot item drop with the classic charges.
Bless/spell reflect/teleport/nightsight/stat increase/protection or weapon charges paralyze/spell strike/curse/poison and add whatever new spells to each group with mix of new skill spells.
It is just plainly the hunting area is huge with many options and nothing needs changing. More it needs a flavored topping. Just change direction and stop peeing in the wind and then complaining. Bend with the reed and take it's lead and your clothing will be drier.
F
Fayled Dhreams
Guest
since the dungeons are already separated and, in their own, difficulties are unique ... you are just talking tactics ... are you not?
SOLO tactics, to be precise.
Or can you (have you) described "a case" that is equally applicable to groups as well?
The case I see ... is that this is ALL about loot tables and spawners
and while it can be slanted towards the solo players benefit ...
Can't forget about the groups! that would be silly ...
neh?Reality. You run through Ice Dungeon and see a system message about "heavy feet bla blah" as an Ice Ogre spawns. You sic your Greater Dragon on it and sit there complaining in guild chat about how you just wanted to farm the good monsters in back and this is boring. One of your guildies says you should just get out of those old dungeons, since they let a couple of Stratics kooks screw them up, and go farm troglodytes or something. You agree. Kal Ort Por.
Reality.
[Guild][BwnerPwner]: LOL WTF did they do to hythloth? was gonna get lord back on ballies
[Guild][MaximusDrizzt]: They randomized all the spawn so you can't farm any one thing effectively.
[Guild][BwnerPwner]: lame. but i mean why can't i get past first room? door is locked
[Guild][MaximusDrizzt]: Oh there's a puzzle, turn on your ICQ and I'll link you a walkthrough.
[Guild][BwnerPwner]: already recalled to dojo, gonna farm succubusses.
And so on and so forth.
Meanwhile, most of these dungeons are still crammed full of garbage nobody wants to kill, no one is using most of them, and the best you guys can come up with is nonsense like this. Even if I'm totally wrong and people would actually enjoy wandering through random crap while looking up puzzle solutions on uoguide, the fact remains that it's a gigantic coding effort of questionable utility.
I don't know about you kids, but this isn't ten years ago and I am WAY past my whole "Here is my design for a game nothing like UO, drop everything and spend the next year and a half making UO into this game please!" rambling forum post phase. Now I just want them to yank out some trash spawners so I can kill balrons in Hythloth when I'm sick of looking at the Dojo. (Or lich lords in Deceit, etcetera, whatever.) It's not a lofty goal, but it beats Hythloth sitting utterly unused.
Nothing any of you has said has made anyone more interested in killing ice elementals, or gargoyles, or giant serpents.
EDIT to add:
Yeah I'm totally going to go recruit a group to kill ice elementals or something. That's realistic and will happen. Jesus, did I wander onto an old Everquest forum by mistake? Has anyone here ever played Ultima Online?The case I see ... is that this is ALL about loot tables and spawners
and while it can be slanted towards the solo players benefit ...
Can't forget about the groups! that would be silly ...
T
Trebr Drab
Guest
I agree.
My biggest fear is that a few players will demand, and get, dungeons by numbers. Which is to say, dungeons like Themepark games have.
U
unified
Guest
There you go speaking for others again. Reading your posts has made me want to kill these thing more ...
U
UOKaiser
Guest
These brainstorming is nice and all but simply to put it there is no reason to fight them. Want to get random loot from a ancient wyrm it's pitiful. Make random loot better than imbuing and I guarantee the dungeons will be full again. Killing the hardest creatures in the dungeons. Well the ones who give the best loot. Other minor creatures will go unused only for the few true newbies.
U
UOKaiser
Guest
Lizard men are the exception thats because the spine hides just like the dragons. But there loot and all monsters loot in the dungeons is useless. It's easier to make money farming imbuing ingredients and selling them.
Z
Zyon Rockler
Guest
So, basically we end up arguing, rather than creating solutions. It's not fair that you take someone's idea and tell them that it's not correct, simply because to you, it's not correct. Rather than saying, this idea is no good because of and only that you should feel obligated to create a better scenerio to show some kind of proof of a system that would be better because it makes no sense to argue the only possibilities.
I think, if the designers revamp the dungeons and change the spawns you really wouldn't get that many system messages. You would actually see or hear those things. We do have sound and visual capabilities. So, you're speculating or suggesting based on your opinion.
It would make sense to present the idea with the understanding that anything you see wrong with it could be fixed. So, by suggesting what is wrong you're actually solving the problem. Like, when a greater dragon comes into the room, the intelligent spawn would create an ice force field around the creature, causing the tamer to have to deal with the Ice Ogre.
A big problem is the fact that people only want to hunt the main creatures and I think alot of that is based on a bad attitude towards the game in general and it should be considered unacceptable from a designers point of view. It is more important that the experience is meaningful.
If people only want to hunt Ice Fiends or whatever, then the designer should only take into account more of them are needed not design the dungeon, which is the whole point, the dungeon not the spawn.
If I throw you in the dungeon, i'm not placing you with your favorite spawn. I'm putting you in a place that is damp and dark, where you will slowly starve to death and be eaten by rats.
Not be welcomed at the front door and given a small map with a location to where your favorite place might be.
I think, if the designers revamp the dungeons and change the spawns you really wouldn't get that many system messages. You would actually see or hear those things. We do have sound and visual capabilities. So, you're speculating or suggesting based on your opinion.
It would make sense to present the idea with the understanding that anything you see wrong with it could be fixed. So, by suggesting what is wrong you're actually solving the problem. Like, when a greater dragon comes into the room, the intelligent spawn would create an ice force field around the creature, causing the tamer to have to deal with the Ice Ogre.
A big problem is the fact that people only want to hunt the main creatures and I think alot of that is based on a bad attitude towards the game in general and it should be considered unacceptable from a designers point of view. It is more important that the experience is meaningful.
If people only want to hunt Ice Fiends or whatever, then the designer should only take into account more of them are needed not design the dungeon, which is the whole point, the dungeon not the spawn.
If I throw you in the dungeon, i'm not placing you with your favorite spawn. I'm putting you in a place that is damp and dark, where you will slowly starve to death and be eaten by rats.
Not be welcomed at the front door and given a small map with a location to where your favorite place might be.
Listen dude, you came into a thread about how it sucks to lose your car keys and suggested everyone take helicopters to work in the morning instead. Don't baww just because I'm not chomping at the bit to see someone play amateur game dev on the forums for the eleventy-billionth time.
Yeah no, you're totally realistic and on solid ground here. LOL.
"I love my own bizzare convoluted ideas, but on some level even I realize that the bulk of players wouldn't give a crap for them. Devs, please nerf human nature. MAKE THEM LIKE WHAT I DO. MAKE THEM."
Yeah no, you're totally realistic and on solid ground here. LOL.
Z
Zyon Rockler
Guest
The problem was when you said, you were gonna delete everything, then that would just leave nothing. So, it's hard to understand what your vision is.
That's why I thought if you explained what you wanted and gave us the idea it could be created. Choosing not to makes it impossible for it to ever happen.
So, you've given up in a way, the right to allow yourself to be heard. Any idea can be made into a physical reality. Suggestion is more powerful in the way that it creates through others. Like a four string bass becoming a five string guitar and then becoming a six string. First someone thinks the idea, then suggests it. Sometimes, even the physical world suggests things to us.
Like, falling down the steps might suggest a railing or jumping off a building might suggest a parachute.
Once the idea has been created and then suggested, it then becomes a matter of time but it is no longer impossible because it has been conceived. It just becomes a way of figuring out how to produce it. So, unless you have some kind of suggestion or idea, then it will be impossible for you to get what you want.
As far as making people think or act, is part of design. If you build walls that a person cannot walk through, then you're creating a way to force someone to take a certain path. I think choice is the key. You're giving them a choice but you're still designing the choices, which means either outcome of two choices is still an outcome that has been designed. So, essentially you're forcing those choices. So any choice that is given to you or any choice that you feel you have, is really not a choice at all, unless you create options but even then it's difficult to say if the options you've created weren't already part of the design.
Just because one person or a group of people decide something is impossible or it doesn't work in certain circmstances, doesn't mean the idea itself, is going to disappear. That's what these boards are for, communicating, creating ideas and then allowing everyone to have their point of view.
That's why I thought if you explained what you wanted and gave us the idea it could be created. Choosing not to makes it impossible for it to ever happen.
So, you've given up in a way, the right to allow yourself to be heard. Any idea can be made into a physical reality. Suggestion is more powerful in the way that it creates through others. Like a four string bass becoming a five string guitar and then becoming a six string. First someone thinks the idea, then suggests it. Sometimes, even the physical world suggests things to us.
Like, falling down the steps might suggest a railing or jumping off a building might suggest a parachute.
Once the idea has been created and then suggested, it then becomes a matter of time but it is no longer impossible because it has been conceived. It just becomes a way of figuring out how to produce it. So, unless you have some kind of suggestion or idea, then it will be impossible for you to get what you want.
As far as making people think or act, is part of design. If you build walls that a person cannot walk through, then you're creating a way to force someone to take a certain path. I think choice is the key. You're giving them a choice but you're still designing the choices, which means either outcome of two choices is still an outcome that has been designed. So, essentially you're forcing those choices. So any choice that is given to you or any choice that you feel you have, is really not a choice at all, unless you create options but even then it's difficult to say if the options you've created weren't already part of the design.
Just because one person or a group of people decide something is impossible or it doesn't work in certain circmstances, doesn't mean the idea itself, is going to disappear. That's what these boards are for, communicating, creating ideas and then allowing everyone to have their point of view.
What I'd actually prefer is a reason to hunt them.
eg. We hunt for arcane gems from juka and controllers
sometimes I hunt savages for blue berries. Golems drop music box gears
We used to hunt ophidian matriarchs for their chance to drop vanq weapons.
I've spent time hunting ice serps for glacial staves at one time.
We hunt lizardmen for spined leather.
I'd like a reason to hunt them. Not for something uber, but for something useful, a consumable that would mean we continued to hunt them.
eg. We hunt for arcane gems from juka and controllers
sometimes I hunt savages for blue berries. Golems drop music box gears
We used to hunt ophidian matriarchs for their chance to drop vanq weapons.
I've spent time hunting ice serps for glacial staves at one time.
We hunt lizardmen for spined leather.
I'd like a reason to hunt them. Not for something uber, but for something useful, a consumable that would mean we continued to hunt them.
T
Trebr Drab
Guest
Good point, but the fact is that the way UO, and all MMORPGs are designed, use runs out. Trades, Imbuing, all these things reach a saturation point because everyone's afraid of "loss". And no wonder, we have this leet top end game experience where what we have is hard to get and takes loads of building time to have. Who wants to lose that? Put another way, it's not like the ol' days.
However, the old days were a sham in this sense. All the "loss" was also gain for others, most of the time. I'm not sure how we could replicate "loss" without having it actually be a mere shift, while maintaining game play fun.
T
Trebr Drab
Guest
I've come up with a solution to the problem (loss vs. shift) that I think can work, and add an exciting element to a game. But it depends on a "classic shard" base.
Basically, MOBs loot for a purpose, and end up destroying what they loot. But players can have an opportunity to get it back before that happens. But this would have to be very hard to do, and equally rewarding.
Several basic ways to do this. MOBs offering sacrifices and thus the loss, or MOBs working a trade system among themselves and turning loot into new resources at the cost of great volumes of said loot. For example, metal armor/weapons being turned into a magical metal that can be used to make magic armors and weapons, ala the classic UO.
The reason that it needs to be a classic version of UO is because of the power gaps created by AoS. These gaps make the old dungeons and most MOBs easy targets for maxed characters. Thus making the trade route to either sacrifice or refinement of resources too easy.
Unless, of course, the idea is to make it gamey and just "make it happen", without all the fun that can be added through NPC MOB trade and routes and etc.
