The new Alchemy changes to potion weight

[Vaelix]

I can still heal Through your Poison with HP Regen Confidence and Parry HP Bonus from it, your poisons *Are* subject to missing because of resist, and Omen is Not a 100% Poison if the player makes good use of their trap box.

Also, Adding 70 Weapon Skill to a Mage would require the Mage to need HCI on his suit, That 70 Skill is also 10 more than the 60 Necro you would need for Omen (Like you said) So Imo, bad choice. *


Disarm Lethal Spam
Evade spam
Confidence Off-screen Spam (While poisoned as it still heals and Lethal is too slow to really be a good interrupt against it)
Trap box myself on your Omens *
And Avoid 2 Tiles of you when I think you are going for Poison.

And you forgot to address other than magery poison and omen lethal, mages can just as well Lethal spam in dexer's fashion. Btw I have a perfect suit for it as well. And it's not hard to swing a mage weapon -20 kryss at cap speed, and thanks to imbuing its just as easy to load up dci/hci/ or even dci/hci combo.

So This takes us back to root one.
1. Mage spending 70 extra skill in melee weapon can now infectious strike in dexers fashion.

2. Mage still has the best cure in game at no cooldown what so ever, and you dont have to roll on the 20% cure chance that cleanse by fire gives you.

3. Why would any melee dexer RUN AWAY from a mage because they want to avoid a possible poison? If this was true then poison casting word of power will become instant Dexer repeller spell, the fact is this simply does NOT happen.

4. If you have ever gotten hit by a mage with a harm spell at max dmg (melee range) the mage has double that range capable of casting DP or omen lethal. This is assuming the mages didnt just do dexer style and infectious lethal strike you already.

In the end assume everything is equal who will have the upper hand in curing lethal poison?

I agree with some of your points but some simple just does not make sense, and you left out the possibility that mages might also use their weapon to poison as well as spell, and just to block a bandage, a lesser poison from 11 tiles away would also do the trick... just fyi.

1. Answered already

2. No one is arguing against this.

3. Why would a Melee Dexxer stand within 2 Tiles of you when he Knows you have a Poison casted and it can result in a Lethal (Which *Can* be crippling to the dexxer), Would i run completely away? No.. I would try to force you to waste it on me while I am not within 2 Tile Lethal Range.

4. Im very aware of the Poison and harm ranges, and as I said its a bad idea to inlude both HCI and 10 Extra skill to get nearly the same effect that 60 Necro gives you Via Omen and the potential extra damage it gives as well.

5. I am an advocate of Dexxers with Resisting Spells, combine this with 120 bushy confidence, orange petals, cure potions (Even if they have a timer), and whatever else I might have, and that Lesser poison from 11 Tiles away is not going to ruin me in the slightest, also in that example I would of been a Parry / Counter Attack Resist bushy dexxer (With an Orc Brute), so please, use that weapon against me.

A Change like this Would cause the dexxer to actually Time and use his cure pots in a skillful manner, I agree with that, instead of just rolling his face across the macro area at any given time.

Edit : Completely evenly, A Mage would have the Upper hand in Curing the poison, while the dexxer would have the upper hand in maintaining his offense *while* poisoned.

 

[Ahuaeyjnkxs]

The true reason for phasing out alchemy has nothing to do with this discussion.

You were clever to notice it as a tendancy, but you are a fool for ignoring the politics.

How blissfull is your ignorance these days ?

 

[WarUltima]

I am a 4/6 bok bok confidence evasion guy with resist

Well I dont need to make my points any longer.

The world is different when you play a character like a bok bok evading runner.

And your argument pretty much says "all dexers should have bok bok nerve + evasion + 120 resist + 4/6 + run away confidence. Mages arent the favorate rightnow, and offscreen is DEXER GODMODE everyone knows. When you throw in evasion and bok bok bok nerve bok bok it only further showing that currently mage/dexer imbalance.

But yes you made your points, if you play 4/6 chiv bok bok nerve evasion running away straight line confidence till full chainer, yes most mages will have trouble killing you. You are a bok bok evader for godsake.

 

[Ahuaeyjnkxs]

Man you must be bored alright...

 

[I Play UO]

Obviously nobody here is serious about playing a mage, or else they would also want a cure pot timer. I don't care about bringing back poisoning...I want mages to have to cast cure again.

 

[Cear Dallben Dragon]

While i dont think these changes do much to fix the issues. I do think that the real answer is much more complex. such as potions success/benefits based on skill over item props, bandages having a chance to cure poison as they tick, and all the other things than need to be taken in to account. Making them heavy and scarce then depleting them based on amount held just seem bad for right now.

 

[puni666]

I personally dislike the weight changes.

Imo...
Level 5 poison vs greater cure potion should = 50% cure rate.
Level 5 poison vs cure spell = 25% cure rate
Level 5 poison vs arch cure = 100% cure rate

Or something similar.

Yeah that's not a bad idea.

Make the default rate cure rate like 40% for level 5 then with 50% EP it goes up to 60% cure rate. Then with alchemy a bonus 33% you're at a 73% cure rate on level 5. Still not 100% but having the skills helps. So with a GM poisoner vs. a skilled alchemist 1 of 4 pots fails for curing and a unskilled alchemist 2 of 5 fail. My numbers are probably off, but you get the point.

 

[[JD]]

war makes some good points about what would happen with a shift of power. the goal shouldnt be to shift power and make one type of toon godmode. it should be about making things more equal. right now with spammable gcures it destroys nox templates.

so, what if there were a _short_ gcure timer (like 3-5 sec), or gcure pots chance to cure went down + a 2 sec reuse timer so that you needed to use them more often? make things like bandages raise their chance to cure, lower the timer a bit to 4s(same as heal), as most dexxers have healing on themselves anyway.

and i still say someone with alchemy actually on their template should be far better with pots than someone who put a mod on their jewels.

 

[puni666]

and i still say someone with alchemy actually on their template should be far better with pots than someone who put a mod on their jewels.

I dunno I think the 33% bonus is pretty fair.

This might be an out there example, but here it goes. Take someone that knows how to build a car (alchemist in our situation). They make the car for anyone that knows how to drive (players that set potion macros handi cappers that double click them count too). Everything functions the same! Just the person that built the vehicles know how to maintain them and get a little bit more time out of the vehicle (33% bonus).

And in all reality comparing an alchemist in this game to a mechanic (who actually knows their trade) is sort of insulting. I'm willing to bet an alchemist in this game half the time wouldn't know how to use the potions they create to there maximum effectiveness in any given situation anyways... which in all honesty they should get no bonus. Be grateful for your 33%.

 

[Cloak&Dagger]

I dunno I think the 33% bonus is pretty fair.

This might be an out there example, but here it goes. Take someone that knows how to build a car (alchemist in our situation). They make the car for anyone that knows how to drive (players that set potion macros handi cappers that double click them count too). Everything functions the same! Just the person that built the vehicles know how to maintain them and get a little bit more time out of the vehicle (33% bonus).

And in all reality comparing an alchemist in this game to a mechanic (who actually knows their trade) is sort of insulting. I'm willing to bet an alchemist in this game half the time wouldn't know how to use the potions they create to there maximum effectiveness in any given situation anyways... which in all honesty they should get no bonus. Be grateful for your 33%.

I think having a timer on all the pots is not a bad idea. But I think the amount of time should also be based on your alchemy skill, just one idea I just had while typing this.

Edit: Also you did not address what JD is talking about. 33% might be a fair bonus, but compare it to the 50% you get from and item. Using your type of comparisons, it would be like a race care driver vs someone who has never drove before but they got a computer to tell them when to do what. In such an example what are the chances of the person reacting to the computer quick enough to out perform the driver who anticipates what to do?

 

[puni666]

I think having a timer on all the pots is not a bad idea. But I think the amount of time should also be based on your alchemy skill, just one idea I just had while typing this.

Edit: Also you did not address what JD is talking about. 33% might be a fair bonus, but compare it to the 50% you get from and item. Using your type of comparisons, it would be like a race care driver vs someone who has never drove before but they got a computer to tell them when to do what. In such an example what are the chances of the person reacting to the computer quick enough to out perform the driver who anticipates what to do?

I don't think alchemy has anything to do with how often you can cram liquids down your throat. And the 50% bonus everyone has access to. Either fit it into your suit or don't... it's up to you. Do you want automatic windows and a remote less car starter or not? (50% EP)

Could you imagine if potion drinking was anything near realistic? You could only drink like 5 pots an hour otherwise your character would be disoriented from throwing up and then you'd lose the bonus of your pots you drank .

 

[Chardonnay]

I don't think alchemy has anything to do with how often you can cram liquids down your throat. And the 50% bonus everyone has access to. Either fit it into your suit or don't... it's up to you. Do you want automatic windows and a remote less car starter or not? (50% EP)

Could you imagine if potion drinking was anything near realistic? You could only drink like 5 pots an hour otherwise your character would be disoriented from throwing up and then you'd lose the bonus of your pots you drank .

Comparing UO to RL FTL...

You can't compare ANYTHING in UO to RL...