Player Pirates in Trammel

[Phineas le Monge]

Just curious - and I know this is prolly in a forum listing somewhere. Are player ships (not guilded together or partied) supposed to be able to attack each other in Trammel waters? I am looking at this as non-consensual Pvp ship to ship? A friend was out fishing and was attacked and boarded by "player pirates" while in Tram waters...

 

[cdavbar]

Are you upset that i took your pirate last night on GL?

And its not pvp since you wernt attacked.

As for boarding your ship, set the access levels accordingly.

Arrrrgghhhh These Seas Be Mine ya land-lubbers!

 

[Falcon of Atlantic]

Arr, we didn't attack you if it was unlocked!

 

[Arcus]

Just curious - and I know this is prolly in a forum listing somewhere. Are player ships (not guilded together or partied) supposed to be able to attack each other in Trammel waters? I am looking at this as non-consensual Pvp ship to ship? A friend was out fishing and was attacked and boarded by "player pirates" while in Tram waters...

I hope that is by design. If it was , best decision in a long time.

 

[Trebr Drab]

I hope that is by design. If it was , best decision in a long time.

No matter what they do, it's a mess without a working justice system. In this case, properties need to be owned and if stolen, they are stolen, it's a crime, and can be punished. And any system of ownership needs a system behind it similar to the ship's rank system for usage. If they had that, all things could be included, and griefers would become criminals when they messed up event drops, etc. I die a little every time I think about how great UO could be. But the players want everything one way or the other, extremes, no middle ground, no give, so we get bland and problematic.

 

[cdavbar]

Just curious - and I know this is prolly in a forum listing somewhere. Are player ships (not guilded together or partied) supposed to be able to attack each other in Trammel waters? I am looking at this as non-consensual Pvp ship to ship? A friend was out fishing and was attacked and boarded by "player pirates" while in Tram waters...

Sorry i responded to the wrong persons post, when i responded to yours. But you can not actually attack others ships with the exception of one cannon shot that will make you go from pristine to slightly damaged.

As far as boarding the ship, that can only happen when you set the access levels to allow it. Ive boarded many peoples ships. Ive stolen many things from their holds. They should have known better than to leave it public access. It is almost like a house when it comes to security.

If none of those apply and it was set so no one in the public could access then send in a bug report right away.

Good Luck and Happy Sailing.

-Great Lakes Elite Pirate Hunter

 

[cdavbar]

No matter what they do, it's a mess without a working justice system. In this case, properties need to be owned and if stolen, they are stolen, it's a crime, and can be punished. And any system of ownership needs a system behind it similar to the ship's rank system for usage. If they had that, all things could be included, and griefers would become criminals when they messed up event drops, etc. I die a little every time I think about how great UO could be. But the players want everything one way or the other, extremes, no middle ground, no give, so we get bland and problematic.

There is a justice system, secure your crap or lose it to the person who picks up on your lack of attention in securing stuff.

I think its justice, teaches you not to leave your stuff set to anyone.

 

[Elric_Soban]

in trammel, nobody can be on your boat unless you explicitly let them. (as i understand it)

and even in fel, they have to 'scuttle' your boat before they can board.

 

[Trebr Drab]

No matter what they do, it's a mess without a working justice system. In this case, properties need to be owned and if stolen, they are stolen, it's a crime, and can be punished. And any system of ownership needs a system behind it similar to the ship's rank system for usage. If they had that, all things could be included, and griefers would become criminals when they messed up event drops, etc. I die a little every time I think about how great UO could be. But the players want everything one way or the other, extremes, no middle ground, no give, so we get bland and problematic.

There is a justice system, secure your crap or lose it to the person who picks up on your lack of attention in securing stuff.

I think its justice, teaches you not to leave your stuff set to anyone.

Oh, sure, of course. So you don't lose anything unless you make a mistake, and then you can't do anything about it unless the other guy, who knew your mistake, makes that same mistake. That's one way to do it.

 

[Mr hawk]

Ahoy,

1. The Black Sail did not attack this ship.
2. The ship was unlocked, so the Black Sail came aboard.
3. We tried to talk this said "fisherman", but no reply.
4. We took the ship for a little joy ride next to our main ship. (Said "fisherman" was still fishing as we sailed around)
5. Nothing was taken.

 

[Divie]

There is a justice system, secure your crap or lose it to the person who picks up on your lack of attention in securing stuff.

I think its justice, teaches you not to leave your stuff set to anyone.

that would be education not justice

 

[Korik Bloodguard]

Arrrr!! Pirates terrorizing naive trammies! A ROUND FOR ALL PIRATES! Arrrrharharhar!

 

[red sky]

Korik is back?

 

[Skrag]

I hope that is by design. If it was , best decision in a long time.

If they did this, everyone would love it.
Pirates would go out and attack Trammies.
The Trammies would love the excitement.
They would keep going out.
Huge success.

The whole system wouldn't just be stillborn as no Trammie took to the sea, nosiree. rolleyes:

Why do people post this OH MAN I WISH THEY WOULD BREAK THE GAME stuff?

 

[Allicio]

Personally i see it as harrasment if both parties arent willing to do it. When someone in my guild was boxed in by boats while doing a fishing quest and fired upon, she asked them not to carry on as she was trying to get a quest finished and didnt want to paricipate in what they wanted.

Then they just laughed at her and carried on firing on her until her boat was scuttled, and yes this was in TRAMMEL and all the time there was nothing she could do as they had boxed her in so she could not move.

So now it has cost her loads of resources to repair her ship and 10 minutes stood there doing nothing while people demolished her ship laughing at her. I am sorry but to me that is classed as harrasment.

 

[Sevin0oo0]

She should send a Thank-You note to the Dev's for a well done booster - or join the 'I want my money back' thread

>If they did this, everyone would love it. Pirates would go out and attack Trammies. The Trammies would love the excitement.

me thinks it's trammies that are the majority player base, Theory, if trammies leave, UO dies, Who wants to test that?

 

[Fresley]

Personally i see it as harrasment if both parties arent willing to do it. When someone in my guild was boxed in by boats while doing a fishing quest and fired upon, she asked them not to carry on as she was trying to get a quest finished and didnt want to paricipate in what they wanted.

Then they just laughed at her and carried on firing on her until her boat was scuttled, and yes this was in TRAMMEL and all the time there was nothing she could do as they had boxed her in so she could not move.

So now it has cost her loads of resources to repair her ship and 10 minutes stood there doing nothing while people demolished her ship laughing at her. I am sorry but to me that is classed as harrasment.

If this happened as you say, then it is clearly harassment. I do have difficulty believing that her ship was scuttled by PC's. Regardless, intentionally blocking her in is enough to warrant some action by GM's.

Those that are ignorant as to how set up security on their boats or houses are fair game. There are systems in place to prevent others from making off with your stuff. Use them.

 

[Smoot]

If this happened as you say, then it is clearly harassment. I do have difficulty believing that her ship was scuttled by PC's. Regardless, intentionally blocking her in is enough to warrant some action by GM's.

Those that are ignorant as to how set up security on their boats or houses are fair game. There are systems in place to prevent others from making off with your stuff. Use them.

Hey, let the gms decide if its "harrassment" But she could have recalled out (you have to leave the area for it to be harrassmet) and finished the quest on another boat. Simple as that.

Hey, the seas are dangerous, and thats how it should be.

 

[Fresley]

Hey, let the gms decide if its "harrassment" But she could have recalled out (you have to leave the area for it to be harrassmet) and finished the quest on another boat. Simple as that.

Hey, the seas are dangerous, and thats how it should be.

Oh, I hear you. Its not for me to decide. The problem is she can no longer use her boat when its blocked in. She can't use another either due to the one boat limit. Sure, she can recall out, but she can no longer deliver her fish or work on her quest.

 

[Phineas le Monge]

I have no problems with it if this is what was intended. Just need to know so I can be prepared for pvp in trammel's oceans. Most guys out fishing alone in tram dont even have cannons on their boats and can't defend themselves. Perhaps a slight modification - you can openly attack a ship in tram if it is armed - if not, no attacking. That at least gives the poor schmo on a fishing quest the chance of defending himself.

 

[Martyna Zmuir]

Wait a sec, you want to be able to attack player boats in Tram - even though there is only consentual PvP? Really?

If there is no way for a player to fight back, that's called griefing.

 

[Omnius]

Personally i see it as harrasment if both parties arent willing to do it. When someone in my guild was boxed in by boats while doing a fishing quest and fired upon, she asked them not to carry on as she was trying to get a quest finished and didnt want to paricipate in what they wanted.

Then they just laughed at her and carried on firing on her until her boat was scuttled, and yes this was in TRAMMEL and all the time there was nothing she could do as they had boxed her in so she could not move.

So now it has cost her loads of resources to repair her ship and 10 minutes stood there doing nothing while people demolished her ship laughing at her. I am sorry but to me that is classed as harrasment.

Unfortunately, it's not harassment. Your friend simply found herself on the losing end of game mechanics and didn't enjoy losing.

 

[Gowron]

Player ships can be scuttled by other players in Trammel. Once a boat is scuttled, regardless of the security settings, it can be boarded by anybody. At that point, the only things the security settings protect is access to the helm, the hold, and the cannons. However, in Felucca, with these same conditions, a boarding crew can board a scuttled ship and take the cannons, and the contents of the hold.

These conditions were established prior to the release, and the Devs made a good point in explaining that. Caveat Emptor!

I will concur that it was bad form to block someone in with multiple ships to scuttle a boat, but it is hardly harrassment and not what I consider "non-consentual" as the player herself was not directly attacked or killed.

I classify this as a hard life lesson in securing your cargo and paying attention to what is around you.

 

[UOKaiser]

Player ships can be scuttled by other players in Trammel. Once a boat is scuttled, regardless of the security settings, it can be boarded by anybody. At that point, the only things the security settings protect is access to the helm, the hold, and the cannons. However, in Felucca, with these same conditions, a boarding crew can board a scuttled ship and take the cannons, and the contents of the hold.

These conditions were established prior to the release, and the Devs made a good point in explaining that. Caveat Emptor!

I will concur that it was bad form to block someone in with multiple ships to scuttle a boat, but it is hardly harrassment and not what I consider "non-consentual" as the player herself was not directly attacked or killed.

I classify this as a hard life lesson in securing your cargo and paying attention to what is around you.

Then the dev need to fix it to make sure boats are tied in to the guild system. As what happened is non concentual PVP only allowed in fel and definetely not in trammel. This is obvious oversite made and should be on a list of fixes. Also added the no blocking rule is in full effect in trammel by GM this should be considered blocking.

 

[Lorddog]

If there is no way for a player to fight back, that's called griefing.

wrong - the player also has the option to fight back with cannons on their own ship. This player choose not to as they were macroing away

 

[Trebr Drab]

Player ships can be scuttled by other players in Trammel. Once a boat is scuttled, regardless of the security settings, it can be boarded by anybody. At that point, the only things the security settings protect is access to the helm, the hold, and the cannons. However, in Felucca, with these same conditions, a boarding crew can board a scuttled ship and take the cannons, and the contents of the hold.

These conditions were established prior to the release, and the Devs made a good point in explaining that. Caveat Emptor!

I will concur that it was bad form to block someone in with multiple ships to scuttle a boat, but it is hardly harrassment and not what I consider "non-consentual" as the player herself was not directly attacked or killed.

I classify this as a hard life lesson in securing your cargo and paying attention to what is around you.

uh, not one word of this, anywhere that I looked. Not on the UO site, not here.
Although it does sound vaguely familiar as one of those "did I read that right" things on a message board, somewhere, some time in recent weeks.

 

[Martyna Zmuir]

If there is no way for a player to fight back, that's called griefing.

wrong - the player also has the option to fight back with cannons on their own ship. This player choose not to as they were macroing away

Not talking about a macroing fisherman, but even then its griefing.

Players going around attacking other players boats in Tram, killing their captured pirates (on the binding pole), etc. is griefing. Getting your jollies from intentionally ruining someone else's fun is anti-social play.

I have it on good authority that this was NOT intended and will be fixed.

 

[Old Man of UO]

Unfortunately, it's not harassment. Your friend simply found herself on the losing end of game mechanics and didn't enjoy losing.

How is this not harassment, when casting invis on someone who is macroing against a golem in Luna considered harassment??

This is just a serious game bug that needs to be fixed. Argue however you will that it is intended, it is clearly not within the intended Trammel rule set.

If someone can show a link to where a Developer addressed this issue, please provide one.

 

[Annonymous User]

Man you guys are funny. I would swear I am not playing a game, and I am at some political party listening to people saying, " Ill sue you if you block my car with your car !!!!!!! its so harassment !!!!!!!!!!!! soon you are going to start paging gms for people standing in the road because they are blocking the view of your 1000000 year eathy reward....

 

[Spogfrawn]

Whether you agree with it or not is besides the point. I am of the understanding that in Trammel players are not supposed to be able to attack you.

Now, it seems to me only logical that players should not be able to attack your summoned elementals, not able to attack your tamed pets -- and it is only logical to expect that rule to apply to your house and your ship.

If you want to PvP that's what Felucca is for...

 

[Annonymous User]

Whether you agree with it or not is besides the point. I am of the understanding that in Trammel players are not supposed to be able to attack you.

Now, it seems to me only logical that players should not be able to attack your summoned elementals, not able to attack your tamed pets -- and it is only logical to expect that rule to apply to your house and your ship.

If you want to PvP that's what Felucca is for...

I am not totally for sure about this but, didn't they just say they didn't attack the guy ? they boarded his boat tried to talk to the guy, found out he was scripting fishing. Noticed they had access to the hold and the boat, and played a little trick on him at his expense. No where in this whole thread did anyone say they killed another player....... READING COMPREHENSION is for the win....

 

[cdavbar]

I don,t think it is how they say, unless it is a bug. We tested this theory extensively yesterday. In tram we could only damage a persons ship from pristine to slightly damaged. The only time we could scuttle a player ship was if it was a guild or alliance members ship.

If in fact it is like you say then report it to the devs using the report a bug feature or in the bugs forum that is stickied.

 

[Lady Mal]

http://support.ea.com/cgi-bin/ea.cfg/php/enduser/std_adp.php?p_li=&p_sid=9YIWVYck&p_sp=&p_faqid=45&p_iid=0&p_created=&p_prod=&p_cat=&p_cv=&p_pv=&p_prods=&p_cats=&prod_lvl1=&prod_lvl2=&prod_lvl3=&cat_lvl1=&cat_lvl2=&cat_lvl3=&p_hidden_prods=&p_search_text=&p_new_search=&p_accessibility=&p_page=&p_lva=45&nextlink= It is always saddening to hear about people getting jollies by ruining someone else's fun.



What is Origin's policy regarding harassment?

Harassment consists of flagrant misuse and abuse of game mechanics with the intention of distressing and offending other players. So what's a game mechanic? Game mechanics allow players to interact with the world and each other. For example, the ability to block a doorway is a game mechanic. The ability to create macros with large amounts of text is a game mechanic. Use of game mechanics like these is by no means considered harassment in and of itself. The key to determining whether the mechanic is being misused or abused is to determine "intent". What was the person trying to achieve through their actions? Were they purposefully trying to disrupt someone else's game? While an action may cause others distress, it is not considered harassment until it is determined by OSI/EA that it was done to intentionally cause distress or to offend other players.

Also considered as harassment is any behavior that is incessant, inescapable, derogatory and directed specifically at you or your group. This includes the act of intentionally targeting and disrupting player events, which is never considered acceptable. An important point to note regarding this type of harassment is that a genuine attempt to alleviate the situation must have been made. This could be an attempt to leave the area or the offending player, or simply the act of asking them politely to stop. If a sincere attempt has been made to solve the problem and the offending player persists in the harassing behavior, it can be considered harassment, and the harassment tool should be used at this time. For more information, see How do I report harassment below.

 

[Kelline]

IN TRAM

my friend was out hunting pirates tonight by himself, these ppl came up after he had the pirate almost tied up

Claimed it was thiers & surounded my friend so he couldnt move & scutteed his boat. When he gated me in his ship was at about 10% alive (sorry new to this so not sure of the terms)

they were screaming (all caps so its screaming to me) dont steal our pirate ect....alot of name calling to

I called them childish cuz come one, 4 boats with multiple ppl on it vs his one boat & one person? They said they paged on HIM for harassment

sorry player pirates should only be in fel were both parties r understood to be fighting not in tram where u think ur safe ect from npc pirates

 

[Spogfrawn]

Well, the latest patch that has gone on test says that there is a fix so players cannot scuttle ships in Trammel. So it is not part of the High Seas Booster to allow players to pirate other players ships in Trammel after all.

Good show!

 

[Kelline]

or it was but got abused...

either way its good they r changing it, want to be a player pirate? go to fel & actually player pirate pvp as it should be thats why they created the seperate shards right? so those that prefer tram where safeish

 

[Martyna Zmuir]

Being able to scuttle other player's ships in Trammel was just bad design thats now being corrected.

Good to see that captured pirates are now immortal too. cdavbar will just have to cope.

 

[[JD]]

Personally i see it as harrasment if both parties arent willing to do it. When someone in my guild was boxed in by boats while doing a fishing quest and fired upon, she asked them not to carry on as she was trying to get a quest finished and didnt want to paricipate in what they wanted.

Then they just laughed at her and carried on firing on her until her boat was scuttled, and yes this was in TRAMMEL and all the time there was nothing she could do as they had boxed her in so she could not move.

So now it has cost her loads of resources to repair her ship and 10 minutes stood there doing nothing while people demolished her ship laughing at her. I am sorry but to me that is classed as harrasment.

I've always found the biggest D-Bags in the game to inhabit Trammel. In Fel you could just fight them. In Trammel they exploit dumb bugs or game mechanics to be jackasses and you can't kill them. There's even a bug where players can KILL YOU in Luna.

Obviously players should not be able to destroy others' boats in Tram. As for blocking in, yes, they could do that. UO would have to step in and make a player rule of conduct regarding that for it to be considered "harassment". Otherwise yes it is just exploiting game mechanics to be a d-bag.

As to the scripting fisherman being taken for a joy ride.. LMAO.

 

[twoburntfouryou]

As I understand it you can damage a ship in tram with grape shots I think that is it? Anyhow the ship kinda sinks or whatever and they then throw a net into the water killing the person fishing. Yes this is very lame and I see no fun in it at all but they are doing it on GLrolleyes:

 

[UOKaiser]

I've always found the biggest D-Bags in the game to inhabit Trammel. In Fel you could just fight them. In Trammel they exploit dumb bugs or game mechanics to be jackasses and you can't kill them. There's even a bug where players can KILL YOU in Luna.

Obviously players should not be able to destroy others' boats in Tram. As for blocking in, yes, they could do that. UO would have to step in and make a player rule of conduct regarding that for it to be considered "harassment". Otherwise yes it is just exploiting game mechanics to be a d-bag.

As to the scripting fisherman being taken for a joy ride.. LMAO.

if you look closer those D-bags are from fel but on there tram characters. They are used to PK and fel activities and beleive trammelites to be nothing to them. So they get on there characters and go to tram to bother the trammies using there fel upbringing. This is how it is. Those in Tram live by a rule that they are used to. Those in FEL live by a rule there used to. When those in fel bring there rule to tram it's called griefing when those in tram bring there rule to fel it's called whinning. Thats just how it is.

 

[seapup]

Why don't they just get rid of the asses that are in this game that go around saying *ahh scuddle ye ship* or what ever.
Superboy or what ever the **** u call urself, go play in wow or something.All u are is a little punk ****ing everyone elses game up just to have ur BIG THRILL!!!!.

You all think ur smart going around and sinking other players ships while urs doesn't get damaged because you prob are using an exploit in the game.
Ban these people and get a EM or GM in this game that will get rid of all these asses using hacks and such.

Great Lakes used to be realy fun playing on because we all got along on it back in the days.But now like I say we have jack asses ruining it for others.
I am sick and tired of this crap that we pay to play,yea I know little baby you pay to but prob mommy paying for u just to keep u in the house after u do all ur chores.Play this game when it just came out and you will see what we had to do way back then.
Cheaters should be treated like cheaters and kicked out or banned for about 3 months.

 

[Gowron]

For those of you that missed it this was stated as an update during the testing by Messana.

The maximum setting allowed for any group is OFFICER. Only those in the explicit access list can be set to CAPTAIN. Setting the group security levels, and viewing/editing the Access List, are done via the Tillerman. Adding someone to the Access List is done via their context menu. Both entry paths open the same UI, just starting at different pages.
For classic ships, if you have a key then you are considered OWNER. Otherwise, you are considered PASSENGER. When ships are severely damaged, it becomes impossible to deny access. The effective minimum security level becomes PASSENGER when in Trammel ruleset areas and OFFICER when in Felucca ruleset areas (e.g. in a PvP battle the victor can come aboard and raid your cargo hold and steal your cannons). The DENY ACCESS setting no longer applies in any case (even explicit individual bans) when the ship is immobilized!

The link can be found here. This was intentionally put in.

http://vboards.stratics.com/uo-beta-test-forum/223920-high-seas-update-10-1-a.html

 

[Old Man of UO]

For those of you that missed it this was stated as an update during the testing by Messana. ...

And that made it way too confusing. They should have just used the housing access menu options, which everyone is already familiar with and we wouldn't be having these problems and confusion.

 

[Gowron]

For those of you that missed it this was stated as an update during the testing by Messana. ...

And that made it way too confusing. They should have just used the housing access menu options, which everyone is already familiar with and we wouldn't be having these problems and confusion.

It's actually not too far different from the housing access menu. Housing has public access, private access, guild access, friends and co-owners. The New ships have public access, private access, guild access, passengers, crew, officers, and Captains.

The issue however wasn't about accesses, it was to illustrate that the scuttling of ships in Trammel was an intended feature vice a "bug" the Devs overlooked.

 

[Paldrion]

Just curious - and I know this is prolly in a forum listing somewhere. Are player ships (not guilded together or partied) supposed to be able to attack each other in Trammel waters? I am looking at this as non-consensual Pvp ship to ship? A friend was out fishing and was attacked and boarded by "player pirates" while in Tram waters...

There is a definite bug on boarding. I had No Access set for my security and was still boarded as well.

 

[Lorax_Pacific]

There is a definite bug on boarding. I had No Access set for my security and was still boarded as well.

Are you sure N/A means No Access? I thought it meant Not Assigned meaning can board at their leisure. I guess abbreviations translate to anything.

-Lorax

 

[Paldrion]

Are you sure N/A means No Access? I thought it meant Not Assigned meaning can board at their leisure. I guess abbreviations translate to anything.

-Lorax

NA could also mean Not Applicable. At any rate NA is one step below "Passenger," so I would assume if they cannot be a passenger they should not be able to board.

Oh, now I see it. "Deny Access" is down at the bottom.

 

[Paldrion]

I hope that is by design. If it was , best decision in a long time.

I think you are right about that. Take a look at this post on Stratics:

"When ships are severely damaged, it becomes impossible to deny access. The effective minimum security level becomes PASSENGER when in Trammel ruleset areas and OFFICER when in Felucca ruleset areas (e.g. in a PvP battle the victor can come aboard and raid your cargo hold and steal your cannons). The DENY ACCESS setting no longer applies in any case (even explicit individual bans) when the ship is immobilized!"

Boat Security

This allows the possibility of scaled down ship battles in Trammel and can also serve to keep the conglomeration of parked ships down in busy areas. I agree, good decision.



The only problem is that when you deny access to the public, then your guild members, party members, and friends cannot board the boat.