High Seas - nitpicks, begs, and questions

[Raptor85]

First, the list of complaints

1. Make the cannons easier to fire! Right now they're like solving a puzzle on a chest in khaldun. I can understand they should take some time but maybe If i have all the tools/powder/etc... in my pack I could just prime...wait..and fire ? (the sheer number of things you have to craft per shot is pretty ridiculous as well)

2. saltpeter is nearly impossible to get right now, and it takes far too much to craft the various parts to fire a single shot. (clearing out the vendor i get enough to make a match and a powder charge.....)

3. steering wheel on the tokuno ship on classic client is in a really weird spot, you have to steer from in front of a wheel....I guess I'm just really limber and can reach behind me to turn it.

4. there's no sheep on the sea market and no spinning wheel either, so you can't craft match cords/fuses while there

5. Prices are ridiculously high , right now it costs a few k gold per shot even for light cannonballs. For a grand reward of 10k per pirate minus repairs there's no point to doing the new quests.

6. Players without expansion can't even ride on the new ships as passengers...this effectively means they have to be dry docked and old ships brought out during guild functions. (cant much sail out to terra sanctum if half the players cant get on the boat)

7. you can't dock rowboats while onboard a ship, makes them a bit pointless to use, at 20k per I don't like the thought of abandoning it every time I use one.

And now some questions. I came in on the last few days of the beta and didn't have time to test these, and all other sources are not clear about it.

1. Can your ship ever be completely destroyed by npc's or other players? This is an important question to me as the 450k I spent on it is a non trivial sum. (this is on siege, with an economy basically 1/10 of Atl, so that would be equiv nearly 4.5 mil on atl)

2. When moored with nobody onboard, (such as docking my ship in bucs den or britain to log out for the day) can other players damage my ship? I would really like to not have to completely empty all my equipment out of my hold and dry dock my ship, then bring everything back the next time i want to sail.

 

[Martyna Zmuir]

1. Agreed, cannoneering is way to anal at the moment. Tedium isn't fun. Mythic should have played Pirates of the Carribbean Online and seen how they made cannons quite enjoyable.

2. Agreed. They have put more alchemists at the sea market and on some of the major docks around the shards now. However, saltpeter starts at 20 and must be worked up. More tedium.

3. I thought that was funny too. There are steps to the deck is on, why can't we go up there?

4. There are tailors. Buy bolts and yarn.

5. The reward for bringing in a live pirate is rather paltry.

6. This is to force people to get the booster out of guilt.

7. This is being fixed.

Questions:

1. I don't think you can ever destroy a boat so that a player will lose it. However, getting the required materials to repair a ship some people may find difficult enough to simply buy a new boat.

2. I think if your boat is out, it can be damaged.

 

[Uvtha]

I for one would have liked more sea life and more quests. Just monsters on the sea, or animals (or an on the sea champ spawn, which would have been great fun). The quests are pretty lackluster reward wise and variety wise, and the quests are really the only reason to get on a new boat unless you are attended a planned pvp sea battle or looking for the few rare fish available at sea and not in a dungeon...

 

[Raptor85]

for #4, i should mention I'm on siege, tailors don't sell that here, only way to make yarn is from the wool piles, but there's no spinning wheel there :/

The thing with the pirates too, we have 3x+ cost on everything, so the reward here is even worse.

I would like for a dev to give a definite on my two questions though...dont really feel like losing something worth half the price of my keep :/

 

[Merion]

It would be nice, if people without the booster could at least be passengers, even if not allowed to steer or use the cannons.

 

[Morloch]

I bought the booster on one account, then realised I couldn't do anything on my ship really because all my crafters were on a different account and couldn't make anything for me... so... reluctantly I bought the booster on the crafter account.

Spent best part of 2 hours trying to get/make stuff to fire cannons.

Making cannon was easy.

Making stuff for cannon shot is insane - whoever came up with the saltpeter conundrum obviously hasn't switched their brain on for quite some time.

So.. I primarily need blacksmith and alchemist... Damn - these happen to be on 2 different characters for me - added complication....

There are 5-6 different ingredients (used in 10 different processes) just to be able to fire your first shot - and 5 manufacturing processes for each subsequent shot - Arrgghhh - I suppose I might get used to it after a few hours...days....maybe... if I can get enough resources....

It seems to me that BioMythEA have tried to mix apples and oranges with this 'booster' - IE tried to make a content expansion and a crafter one rolled into one booster. Their mistake (in my opinion) is that they have made the content heavily reliant on the crafting - this is just going to **** people off, as is already evident.

So now it seems I have a choice - wait until all the crafters out there have started producing these things in sufficient quantity and cheaply enough to supply the population or waste hours doing stuff I don't enjoy. Either way, I don't like it and am starting to feel that I've wasted my money on the expansion.

 

[popps]

First, the list of complaints

1. Make the cannons easier to fire! Right now they're like solving a puzzle on a chest in khaldun. I can understand they should take some time but maybe If i have all the tools/powder/etc... in my pack I could just prime...wait..and fire ? (the sheer number of things you have to craft per shot is pretty ridiculous as well)

Worse, it provides to scripters a HUGE advantage in combat.
They just fire up theor script and "voila'", cannons loaded and fired........

2. saltpeter is nearly impossible to get right now, and it takes far too much to craft the various parts to fire a single shot. (clearing out the vendor i get enough to make a match and a powder charge.....)

I am kinda amazed that this was not foreseen in a game where a new addition attracts players...... Not to mention the hoarders....

 

[popps]

I bought the booster on one account, then realised I couldn't do anything on my ship really because all my crafters were on a different account and couldn't make anything for me... so... reluctantly I bought the booster on the crafter account.

Spent best part of 2 hours trying to get/make stuff to fire cannons.

Making cannon was easy.

Making stuff for cannon shot is insane - whoever came up with the saltpeter conundrum obviously hasn't switched their brain on for quite some time.

So.. I primarily need blacksmith and alchemist... Damn - these happen to be on 2 different characters for me - added complication....

There are 5-6 different ingredients (used in 10 different processes) just to be able to fire your first shot - and 5 manufacturing processes for each subsequent shot - Arrgghhh - I suppose I might get used to it after a few hours...days....maybe... if I can get enough resources....

It seems to me that BioMythEA have tried to mix apples and oranges with this 'booster' - IE tried to make a content expansion and a crafter one rolled into one booster. Their mistake (in my opinion) is that they have made the content heavily reliant on the crafting - this is just going to **** people off, as is already evident.

Actually, I favour this Design because it works as an incentive for players' interaction.

Players are finding it annoying and time consuming because they are doing everything on their own but when done by several people each doing their part of the crafting the process becomes smooth and fast.

So, as I understand it, the process was DESIGNED as a TEAM work, not for players yet once more soloing everything on their own.......

So, I applaude the Designers for their Design choice and say do not change it.

It MUST be a team work process as much as possible, IMHO.

 

[Myna]

oh yes ... put a few sheeps on the docks ..... maybe some cows too so you can drink milk while you craft yarn.

and some gorillas, they look so nice, just for the pleasure

 

[Morloch]

Actually, I favour this Design because it works as an incentive for players' interaction.

Players are finding it annoying and time consuming because they are doing everything on their own but when done by several people each doing their part of the crafting the process becomes smooth and fast.

So, as I understand it, the process was DESIGNED as a TEAM work, not for players yet once more soloing everything on their own.......

So, I applaude the Designers for their Design choice and say do not change it.

It MUST be a team work process as much as possible, IMHO.

And I'm afraid herein lies the perennial issue with UO and a number of other MMO's - They have been billed over the years as games that can be enjoyed by both solo and team players and whilst having a healthy mix of both does little if any harm, some purists seem to want to take the MM part of MMO to mean that solo'ists should be sidelined.

Unlike you, I'm not convinced this was intentionally designed to actively exclude solo'ers, although I accept that there are elements that are significantly easier for teams (the primary one being firing and re-loading of cannons on the boat). I just genuinely can't see the argument for turning the crafting element into a team enterprise, nor can I see it becoming popular to do it that way.

As you can probably tell, I personally solo most of the time, for a couple of reasons:

1. I can rarely guarantee consistant play times, regularly having to break off and often cannot play at the same time each day. This play style tends to make others not want to team with you, because you are unreliable and you not to want to team with them because you don't want to hinder.

2. I don't actually know many people anymore in UO - when I played years back, we had a fairly close knitt guild - we all drifted off, me included - I returned a few months ago and have played very casually since, not really getting to know (or trying to get to know) anyone.

Maybe #2 will change over time, but #1 is unlikely to.. therefore for the forseable future I solo - I suspect there are a lot of people similar.

 

[popps]

Unlike you, I'm not convinced this was intentionally designed to actively exclude solo'ers, although I accept that there are elements that are significantly easier for teams (the primary one being firing and re-loading of cannons on the boat). I just genuinely can't see the argument for turning the crafting element into a team enterprise, nor can I see it becoming popular to do it that way.

I did not say that it was designed to exclude soloists, infact, it still is possible to do it solo only that it is considerably more time consuming and a pain.

BOTH Teams and soloists can handle only, teams have it MUCH easier.......

Kinda makes sense to me and, looks like good Design, IMHO..........

As you can probably tell, I personally solo most of the time, for a couple of reasons:

1. I can rarely guarantee consistant play times, regularly having to break off and often cannot play at the same time each day. This play style tends to make others not want to team with you, because you are unreliable and you not to want to team with them because you don't want to hinder.

2. I don't actually know many people anymore in UO - when I played years back, we had a fairly close knitt guild - we all drifted off, me included - I returned a few months ago and have played very casually since, not really getting to know (or trying to get to know) anyone.

Maybe #2 will change over time, but #1 is unlikely to.. therefore for the forseable future I solo - I suspect there are a lot of people similar.

Global Chat has made it rather easy to find fellow players to Team up with......

 

[Raptor85]

1. Can your ship ever be completely destroyed by npc's or other players? This is an important question to me as the 450k I spent on it is a non trivial sum. (this is on siege, with an economy basically 1/10 of Atl, so that would be equiv nearly 4.5 mil on atl)

2. When moored with nobody onboard, (such as docking my ship in bucs den or britain to log out for the day) can other players damage my ship? I would really like to not have to completely empty all my equipment out of my hold and dry dock my ship, then bring everything back the next time i want to sail.

BUMP

These are extremely important questions to me, would really like to know before cannons become common if I'm going to have to start emptying 16,000 stones worth of fish, fishing poles, and lobster traps out of my hold every single day to dry dock my ship.

 

[Raptor85]

bump again, read above post, these questions are extremely important to know the answer to, not leaving a ship worth 450k out to be potentially sunk while I'm offline so I have to keep quitting the fishing quests and moving a few thousand stones to my house when i pack up for the night...

 

[MalagAste]

I seriously think more needs to be done about the availability of the ingredients especially the saltpeter...

And secondly the tedium of all the this and that skill to make all the stuff for shooting one shot is NUTS.

And I agree 100% it just lends itself to promoting the use of scripts and things making the scripters win out AGAIN.. over the general populous...

 

[hawkeye_pike]

1. Can your ship ever be completely destroyed by npc's or other players? This is an important question to me as the 450k I spent on it is a non trivial sum. (this is on siege, with an economy basically 1/10 of Atl, so that would be equiv nearly 4.5 mil on atl)

While I haven't tested this by myself yet, I am pretty sure that your ship cannot be destroyed at all (unless it decays after 7 days). In the worst damage state, your ship will become immobile. All you'd have to do is get some resources and repair it. I don't know yet how many resources you need to repair a completely damaged vessel, but I do know that having a skilled carpenter or blacksmith reduces the amount of resources needed.

In Trammel, when yer ship is immobile, everyone (I think!) can enter it. In Felucca, they can also access your hold and dismantle cannons.

 

[popps]

I seriously think more needs to be done about the availability of the ingredients especially the saltpeter...

And secondly the tedium of all the this and that skill to make all the stuff for shooting one shot is NUTS.

And I agree 100% it just lends itself to promoting the use of scripts and things making the scripters win out AGAIN.. over the general populous...

What if, instead, players accept the idea that these new Galleons are much more easily handled by a TEAM of sailors ??

After all, how much realistic is it that a single sailor sails such a large ship doing the steering, the loading of cannons, the firing, all at the same time ????

 

[MalagAste]

Team or no team it's still a pain to make the crap. If your by yourself making stuff for your ship that's basically swapping skills about 14 times or more... this to that to this and that and this to that and some of this to that and here and there.. and it's a HUGE pain just in it's creation NOT Talking even yet about FIRING It..

 

[Martyna Zmuir]

Firing a cannon is YAY too tedious. Whoever decided to make the process so anal needs slapped.

PotCO did cannons the best as far as I'm concerned, though for UO that might be a little too simplistic.

 

[cdavbar]

1-They are just fine how they are, learn to use a cannon! I can easily take on a pirate solo in my gargoyle ship.

2-Yes, even with the addition of more vendors the peter is way to scarce, it needs to spawn like gems. I would gladly pay more to get more.

3-Yes, i dont use the tokuno cuz im not that limber.

4-As far as sheep goes go to the sheep farms, we dont need sheep on the market.

5-Prices will go down eventually and the possible rewards outweigh the current costs anyways.

6-Then they should buy the expansion simple as that.

7-you dont lose your rowboats the deed always is in you bag you just replace it using deed.


1-No it cannot be sank, but it can be rendered immobile, and it is expensive to repair.

2-Yes it can be damaged by players in your guild on tram, by any player in fel. Pirates will not attack unless someone is onboard.

 

[popps]

Team or no team it's still a pain to make the crap. If your by yourself making stuff for your ship that's basically swapping skills about 14 times or more... this to that to this and that and this to that and some of this to that and here and there.. and it's a HUGE pain just in it's creation NOT Talking even yet about FIRING It..

Firing a cannon is YAY too tedious. Whoever decided to make the process so anal needs slapped.

PotCO did cannons the best as far as I'm concerned, though for UO that might be a little too simplistic.

The way I see it, the process was designed on purpose as a TEAM WORK process.

Lone players can still do it only, much more painfully and slowly.

Since we are talking about very large ships, personally, I see no problem whatsoever that a Team might be supposed to run them at best, rather than single players...

 

[Lord Chaos]

Trying to force people into teams at this stage is completely stupid.

 

[kelmo]

Trying to force people into teams at this stage is completely stupid.

Nonsense. It is also working. Bless Siege!

 

[Lord Chaos]

Nonsense. It is also working. Bless Siege!

If I wanted to play Siege, I'd be playing on siege. Leave that there.

 

[kelmo]

How did you read that as asking you to play Siege? I am just saying many of us are teaming up and playing pirates. As is intended.

 

[Amren]

First, the list of complaints

1. Make the cannons easier to fire! Right now they're like solving a puzzle on a chest in khaldun. I can understand they should take some time but maybe If i have all the tools/powder/etc... in my pack I could just prime...wait..and fire ? (the sheer number of things you have to craft per shot is pretty ridiculous as well)

I think it was lose-lose for EA on this one.

If the system was not as it was, people would whine how "unrealistic" it is , and how it should of been. I'm sure the suggestions brought up would be close to how the system is now.

Peeps keep demanding "realism" in UO for some reason.

 

[popps]

Trying to force people into teams at this stage is completely stupid.

I disagree.

If a mistake was done in the past to have the game go too much the solo way does not mean that at some point decisions can change and steer it back into team work gameplay....

 

[Skrag]

It's a clunky badly-designed system that is absolutely COMICAL in it's anal-retentive nature! A multi-step crafting process to make MATCHES to light the cannons with?

And the whole thing is a giant money-loser anyway! You can keep screaming TEAM TEAM TEAM but people aren't going to put up with this crap. They aren't going to go through a 45745 step crafting process for their reward of... basically nothing!

 

[Flutter]

A really bad way to learn how to use a cannon is after you throw a white net and you have 5769742895764352 eels on your ship.
*nod*

Don't ask me how I know this.