[UO Herald] Producer's Update 10/01/10 - New High Seas Test Publish & More

[AesSedai]

- Excellent point. And furthermore, the air I breathe has been dirty since the first day I took a breath.. sometimes cleaner, sometimes dirtier.. I like to breathe clean air more than dirty air; but maybe that's just me.

 

[Ls Jax Ls]

Terrible analogy. There aren't higher degrees of cheating, it is either present or not. If they can't get rid of it completely, they shouldn't do anything.

 

[AesSedai]

- Noted. Thanks for the input..
I would love to perma-ban all cheaters and make this game as clean as any game I play on a kitchen table with friends... but as a semi-realist I know that there are varying degrees of cheating, just as there are varying, analagous levels of air quality, just as there are varying levels of punishment for cheating..

 

[Ls Jax Ls]

I would love to perma-ban all cheaters and make this game as clean as any game I play on a kitchen table with friends... but as a semi-realist I know that there are varying degrees of cheating, just as there are varying, analagous levels of air quality, just as there are varying levels of punishment for cheating..

Ah really? I would like for you to break down these degrees of cheating for me as I am apparently unaware of them.

 

[AesSedai]

- Just look at the first rule from the UO Rules of Conduct and tell me you cannot see varying degrees of rule-breaking (cheating) involving that alone. I can tell you that it has been documented that UO has varying degrees of punishment when breaking that rule alone.. cheating is cheating, yes; and cheating should be punished, yes.

 

[Llewen]

I would love to perma-ban all cheaters and make this game as clean as any game I play on a kitchen table with friends... but as a semi-realist I know that there are varying degrees of cheating, just as there are varying, analagous levels of air quality, just as there are varying levels of punishment for cheating..

Ah really? I would like for you to break down these degrees of cheating for me as I am apparently unaware of them.

I'm not saying Ls Jax Ls is a cheater, but he has generally posted in support of cheating, and this is something that cheaters try to do: they love to paint every issue that touches on cheating as intensely black and white, so they can eventually paint everyone in black.

Of course there are degrees of cheating and shades of grey. The following is just one example.

There is the person who is training on a golem and goes out to the fridge to get a beer and comes right back, or perhaps stops to have a short conversation with his wife before sitting down in front of the computer again. There is the person training on a golem who takes an hour long nap. There is the person training on a golem who watches a movie on a second monitor and might be sitting in front of his computer, but really isn't paying attention to what is going on in game. There is the person who goes to the washroom and rushes back.

Are they all cheating? Should they all be permanently banned, or should there be varying degrees of discipline applied? Or are some of them so doing something so insignificant that it would be ridiculous to apply any discipline at all?

 

[Harlequin]

- I apologize for doubting that decent action would be taken against cheating in UO (~ in the Producer's Update 9/10/10).

Thanks for the update on actions being taken against UM and illegal 3rd party usage.
It is a very positive UO improvement; and I greatly appreciate your last paragraph on the subject today.. very much. Keep up the good work UO Team.

You gotta have faith~~~You gotta have faith~~~

*Trying to decide if I should dig up my old replies to the naysayers so that I can say "I told you so"* Mwuhahahahaha

 

[Llewen]

You gotta have faith~~~You gotta have faith~~~

*Trying to decide if I should dig up my old replies to the naysayers so that I can say "I told you so"* Mwuhahahahaha

Well, I must admit I just about completely lost faith. When several months past after 3rd party cheat detection went live, and nothing had happened, I was pretty discouraged.

 

[Harlequin]

Well, I must admit I just about completely lost faith. When several months past after 3rd party cheat detection went live, and nothing had happened, I was pretty discouraged.

Hope the signs are more encouraging now!

I'm of the opinion that as soon as they are enforcing the punishments, they should speak up and let the players know that cheaters have been banned. Send a clear message to let players know cheating will not be endorsed.

If they ban cheaters but keep quiet about, it makes it seem like they are not doing anything.

 

[canary]

I'm of the opinion that as soon as they are enforcing the punishments, they should speak up and let the players know that cheaters have been banned. Send a clear message to let players know cheating will not be endorsed.

If they ban cheaters but keep quiet about, it makes it seem like they are not doing anything.

This.

Cal has issues with numbers. I think it would help if he shared, at least regarding this, some solid figures.

 

[Ls Jax Ls]

I'm not saying Ls Jax Ls is a cheater, but he has generally posted in support of cheating, and this is something that cheaters try to do: they love to paint every issue that touches on cheating as intensely black and white, so they can eventually paint everyone in black.

Of course there are degrees of cheating and shades of grey. The following is just one example.

There is the person who is training on a golem and goes out to the fridge to get a beer and comes right back, or perhaps stops to have a short conversation with his wife before sitting down in front of the computer again. There is the person training on a golem who takes an hour long nap. There is the person training on a golem who watches a movie on a second monitor and might be sitting in front of his computer, but really isn't paying attention to what is going on in game. There is the person who goes to the washroom and rushes back.

Are they all cheating? Should they all be permanently banned, or should there be varying degrees of discipline applied? Or are some of them so doing something so insignificant that it would be ridiculous to apply any discipline at all?

Well, you didn't say I was a cheater you just implied it, but that's beside the point. The case you described does not present varying degrees of cheating...every individual listed is doing the exact same thing: training on a golem unattended. The reason for being unattended doesn't matter (much like the reason for robbing a store or killing someone does not matter), you still committed the act; period. You're quick to throw the cheater tag on everyone, but the fact is, by your own and many other's definitions, anyone who has ever used a bug, exploited game mechanics, trained a skill unattended, performed a task unattended, ran a script, used a vendor search website, used a speedhack, looped a macro, or did anything else to gain an advantage is a cheater. I dare anyone to claim they are not guilty of at least one of the actions above.

 

[Llewen]

Hope the signs are more encouraging now!

I'm of the opinion that as soon as they are enforcing the punishments, they should speak up and let the players know that cheaters have been banned. Send a clear message to let players know cheating will not be endorsed.

If they ban cheaters but keep quiet about, it makes it seem like they are not doing anything.

Well anyone that does any pvp'ing at all right now knows that something has happened in the past two weeks. It's pretty hard to miss it. They obviously can't name names, and I'm not sure how effective providing exact numbers would be. The way the rumour mill is grinding overtime is probably more effective than those would be at any rate.

I think my favourite line from all the plays I have acted in was from a play called "The Ends of the Earth" by Morris Panych, "People are always much worse when you imagine them." Often the impact of an action such as this is greater if you leave the details to people's imaginations...

The case you described does not present varying degrees of cheating...

Sure it does. You've chosen not to see it that way because it supports the case you are trying to present, which appears to be that everyone cheats so it is ridiculous to do anything about it. The real question, which only you can answer is, what is your motivation? Why are you so trying so hard to convince the devs that nothing should be done about the serious cheating problem UO has had over the years?

 

[Restroom Cowboy]

Well, you didn't say I was a cheater you just implied it, but that's beside the point. The case you described does not present varying degrees of cheating...every individual listed is doing the exact same thing: training on a golem unattended. The reason for being unattended doesn't matter (much like the reason for robbing a store or killing someone does not matter), you still committed the act; period. You're quick to throw the cheater tag on everyone, but the fact is, by your own and many other's definitions, anyone who has ever used a bug, exploited game mechanics, trained a skill unattended, performed a task unattended, ran a script, used a vendor search website, used a speedhack, looped a macro, or did anything else to gain an advantage is a cheater. I dare anyone to claim they are not guilty of at least one of the actions above.

You talk of implication yet make assumptions based on your own experience of cheating...wonderful! Here I thought you just had a good ping and used the EC...because I personally don't know any other *legal* method of running through tombstones...although you seemed to have figured that out.

 

[Viquire]

On topic for the celebration of our 13 years:

The GDC is happening all this week in Austin. Anyone know if the UO ceremony will be webcast? And if so will a channel for viewing be hosted or will we get video links after the fact?

I for one would like to be able to see all our producers and Richard talk about their experience working on UO. In fact I think hearing Ralph reflect on the origins and development of our game over the years would be fascinating.

 

[Nok]

Hey Viq,

The GDC is happening all this week in Austin. Anyone know if the UO ceremony will be webcast? And if so will a channel for viewing be hosted or will we get video links after the fact?

Checked several of the official GDC sites and didn't find any streams, but ZAM is running a live stream of events and interviews... including some discussion of Ultima coming up soon.

Still looking for others.

 

[Viquire]

Hey Viq,

The GDC is happening all this week in Austin. Anyone know if the UO ceremony will be webcast? And if so will a channel for viewing be hosted or will we get video links after the fact?

Checked several of the official GDC sites and didn't find any streams, but ZAM is running a live stream of events and interviews... including some discussion of Ultima coming up soon.

Still looking for others.

Somebody rocks!

Thankee Nok!

 

[Nok]

Originally they were going to interview Chase Colasonno about Ultima, but he had to cancel. So they have arranged to have Cal and another person as the last interview of the day.

Streaming ends at 6p Central Time, so the interview should be coming up relatively soon.

 

[AesSedai]

... You're quick to throw the cheater tag on everyone, but the fact is, by your own and many other's definitions, anyone who has ever used a bug, exploited game mechanics, trained a skill unattended, performed a task unattended, ran a script, used a vendor search website, used a speedhack, looped a macro, or did anything else to gain an advantage is a cheater. I dare anyone to claim they are not guilty of at least one of the actions above.

- I had a real nice explanation to share exactly how I could unquestionably accept your dare and defend my declaration that I am not guilty of a single one of your examples; but it ended up being a few too many paragraphs.
I am not a cheater.

Cheating is bad.