Hide Stealth And Smoke bombs

[Omnius]

Its amazing how many popshotting stealthers are on point leaderboards for factions.

Sure theres investing 200 skill points to try and find a stealther (oh lest we forget not being able to purge them out of animal form anymore, so they get to just straight run), or using thunderstorm and other area spells (see can just straight run to get another hide off), they have ample skill increase items as Omnius said (now most of them run resist), if they don't have resist then be my guest and mana vamp them because OMG it takes 10mana to smoke bomb (try doing ANY offense on them before they can regen 10 mana). So as has been stated before no stealther should die 1v1or 2v1. Consider it takes at least two mages to keep a stealther vamped or para'd, and stealthers have every opportunity at their leisure to either run or take a kill shot. All this not even taking into account massive blues guilds (see great lakes) that will field double numbers and have ONE faction stealther purely to popshot. Good luck finding the needle in the haystack.

so true.

 

[Freelsy]

Oh yeah, sure, use all those boost items and sacrifice good armor and necessary PvP boosts making them even worse for combat. Then you have a weak harmless stealther that you can't seem to kill and that can't kill you.

Really don't know what you're talking about do you?

Stealth/whatever are very powerfull templates. Been playing one for 3 years now. Stealth nerve strike/death strike to be exact. Its a very very deadly template. Hell, I only run 100 hide/75 stealth and I'm capable of dishing out insane amounts of damage within a second or two. Combine with a mage or other high damage out put character and you should kill anyone.

I challenge all you professional revealers out there to find me and kill me. It aint happening. You may get me revealed, but I'm gone in a split second again while you're waiting to A) recast your spell or B) waiting for the timer on your skill/item to reset. By that time I'm screens away...

 

[Flutter]

If you are fighting a stealther 1v1 and the stealther is able to kill you.... well, you need to work on your game.
If you're just mad because he gets away, well that's what his template was made to do. It is why he has invested the skill points the way he has.
If the stealther is out fighting groups and just wrecking everyone, well then that qualifies as "overpowered".
On the other hand if he's just good at getting away, well, that's the whole point of the template. Drive by or hit and run.

 

[Babble]

Seems to be a pretty good PvP suit to me. I don't think you will call him harmless when your entire guild is on foot within 10 seconds.

Do they fall off the horses laughing, or is there a trick to dismount 20 people at once?

 

[A Rev]

I see alot of people saying an investment of 200skill points.

I never see that, i usually see of an investment of 120. Occasionaly a little more.

100 hiding and 20 stealth (+60 from items)

Thats not really sacrificing much to be nigh on unkillable.

Even crappy stealthers can survive easily. You have smoke bombs, shadow strike(which only needs 80 stealth), turkey feathers, invis items...alot of ways to insta hide at will and then insta stealth. Only one takes mana...which is a mute point as any stealther worth a damn has resist.

 

[hen]

I see alot of people saying an investment of 200skill points.

I never see that, i usually see of an investment of 120. Occasionaly a little more.

100 hiding and 20 stealth (+60 from items)

Thats not really sacrificing much to be nigh on unkillable.

Even crappy stealthers can survive easily. You have smoke bombs, shadow strike(which only needs 80 stealth), turkey feathers, invis items...alot of ways to insta hide at will and then insta stealth. Only one takes mana...which is a mute point as any stealther worth a damn has resist.

What is a mute point? A point made by hand gestures?

 

[A Bad Player]

I guess with everyones logic evasion should never have had a timer put on it. Evading 90% of spells and being impossible to kill is a playstyle too and we should have all just played disarm templates rolleyes: Or maybe since 4/6 chiv mages didn't kill anyone with chivalry, it shouldn't have been capped. Theres plenty of reasons why a defensive skill set should have some type of restriction.

 

[Ls Jax Ls]

Do they fall off the horses laughing, or is there a trick to dismount 20 people at once?

Well if you're running with 20 people then that's on you...obviously exaggeration is not in your vocabulary.

 

[A Rev]

I guess with everyones logic evasion should never have had a timer put on it. Evading 90% of spells and being impossible to kill is a playstyle too and we should have all just played disarm templates rolleyes: Or maybe since 4/6 chiv mages didn't kill anyone with chivalry, it shouldn't have been capped. Theres plenty of reasons why a defensive skill set should have some type of restriction.

Sorry although i agree with what your saying.

Ive never seen the reason for having smoke bombs?

Its ridiculous, neither skill is the problem. The problem is the item which makes the skill overpowered.

Ive got no problem with a person having to break line of sight to be able to hide.

Ive got no problem with someone attacking from the shadows.

Ive got no problem with someone running on foot at the speed of a horse.

I HAVE got a problem with someone who hides in the shadows, attacks, whiffs, smoke bombs, waits for timer to run, repeats.

 

[A Bad Player]

Sorry although i agree with what your saying.

Ive never seen the reason for having smoke bombs?

Its ridiculous, neither skill is the problem. The problem is the item which makes the skill overpowered.

Ive got no problem with a person having to break line of sight to be able to hide.

Ive got no problem with someone attacking from the shadows.

Ive got no problem with someone running on foot at the speed of a horse.

I HAVE got a problem with someone who hides in the shadows, attacks, whiffs, smoke bombs, waits for timer to run, repeats.

Oh no don't get me wrong, I'm not saying the skills are dumb. I was just adding all the factors in together because any one thing by itself isn't really that stupid. I was making the point when you combine all the advantages then it gets silly!

 

[Going Going Gone]

wow this is really depressing. Look at everyone defending the "I'm too ***** to play a real character template." Smoke bombs should have never been brought into the game and should have been fixed a long time ago. Basically if you are fighting a stealther with smoke bombs, to actually kill them 1v1 you have to be playing a mage to mana vamp. As well as having to be extremely quick with keeping them vamped between offensive spells so that they don't smoke bomb and ***** away.

I would like to say that I got jailed for 3 days because I actualy told a player that he was a p..ssy.

Also, there are so many ways to prevent a stealther to hide that it's depressing. If you bleed him, each tic can reveal him. Same for strangle and poison. Even worst, throw a revenant at the stealther, he will be permanently revealed/followed and damaged. Explo and conflag pots do the job too. Meteor swarm, earthquake... Hell, even just walking around might get the stealther reveald.

Not to mention that you can actually have the tracking/revealing skill.

Some players even mentionned how useless a template with hiding/stealth is, even saying it's not a "real" template and can't acheive anything 1vs1. Of course, a stealther with 520 skill points to use will have to sacrifice either offensive or defensive (or both) skills. Is that a sign that hiding and stealth is overpowered and needs a nerf? I don't think so.

Actually, giving every template in the game the ability to neutralize 200 skill points without having to use 1 skill point (pots, passive detect...) was outrageous. Just for that, I think hiding and stealth needs a boost, not a nerf.

 

[[JD]]

Ominus, I've seen other posts from you and you were on the money. This one, not so much.

What do you want anyone to say? Your post/lack of suggestion is absolutely ********. Why bother to even engage you? You haven't yourself shown that you really want an open dialogue. You're just crying for nerf. If you yourself were open you would be posting some specific tweak.

When the message fails you attack the messenger. So yeah, you got me. every one of my characters is 100 hiding 120 stealth, 120 ninja. I am invincible and so is everyone else like me.

Frankly, I like the existence of stealth. It's cool in 2 ways. First, it lets people new at PVP get their toes wet, and thus provides more eventual pvp opponents. Two, sometimes your guild just can't field enough so you can fall back to stealthing and still enjoy yourself.

Sorry you disagree. Tough crap.

 

[Omnius]

basically I have 1 stealther. That stealther is a thief. Other than an encounter in which i was guardwhacked a couple months ago, I never die in engaging players. I can kill players which blows my mind since I have stealing on my template. But I just don't die. usually I never get noticed except in the case of a few pot shots. The counter measures to stealther are woefully inadequate to deal with stealthing as it is. The low requirements to making a stealther and the ease of fitting it on a high skill increase template leaves me bored playing a stealther.

A thief should not require an army to kill. A thief who openly taunts people should not require more than 1 person to kill. As it is, competent stealthers are impossible to kill with anything short of a decent sized group.

I am not purporting to have every solution. I've seen some good proposals and great analysis of how the problem is based in the totality of assets available to the stealther.

 

[northwoodschopper]

does it not take a few police officers to apprehend a single criminal in most instances?

 

[puni666]

I don't really see how people think this isn't an offensive template. With suits now a days they have a crazy mana pool and MR 12+ with the lowest mana cost for special moves.

I think a good thing to implement would be to remove stealthing from the LMC bonus for special moves. After a few spams of AI or Nerve strike.. w/e the player's using they'd be left with no mana unlike now where they can spam specials endlessly because of high MR and Mana Increase items and it only taking 12 mana for the initial special move then only 24 to spam it. Not to mention deathstrike's mana cost doesn't get doubled like a normal special move's effect.

These templates should only be used for crafty assistance or personal annoyance. Not insane damage outputs.

 

[Omnius]

Most of the people defending stealth as being weak play stealthers and rarely die. Most of the people asking for a tone down to make it more in line with the rest of UO play or regularly deal with stealthers.

 

[Omnius]

I heard a suggestion the other day on atl in global chat that stealthers ought to have a 1-5minute delay on smoke bombs between uses.

 

[Widow Maker]

Sniveling weaklings. I fart in your general direction!

Stealthers are NOT a problem if you use more than the 2 active brain cells you have obviously dedicated to playing UO.

Appear in this template and watch them either run to log off....or die. None will survive (much less even get one kill)..period!!:

*template deleted*

Why should I spoon feed the weak. You deserve to be fodder for the weakest template in the game.

My shard USED to have a stealther problem. We do not have that problem anymore.

 

[RL'S pker]

Honestly stealthers do have it a little too good. But a simple solution to balance it out IMO is increase the timer on smoke bombs. Boost it up to 90 seconds between each use, and it would be balanced.

 

[Omnius]

Honestly stealthers do have it a little too good. But a simple solution to balance it out IMO is increase the timer on smoke bombs. Boost it up to 90 seconds between each use, and it would be balanced.

I'd really like to see this looked into. 90 seconds might be the right amount of time.

 

[Lord GOD(GOD)]

While we're at it can we have 90 seconds between Bushido/Parry defense working. These noobs have been hiding in plain sight far too long. At least when a Stealther engages in a 1v1 you can actually HIT them.

& RE: "Not to mention deathstrike's mana cost doesn't get doubled like a normal special move's effect."

Thats probably because it is a Ninjitsu spell and not a weapon special move.

 

[Going Going Gone]

Isn't there a 8-10 second delay where you can't attempt to rehide, smoke bomb or not?

I don't know how to say this while keeping a respectfull language...

There is at least 12 different ways to take away the ability to hide and to stealth away from a ninja/theif. Some of theses does not even require 1 skill point: passive detect, explo/conflag pots... Hell, you can even get lucky once in a while and have a successfull reveal with JAOT.

Hiding and stealth require 200+ skill points. Compare that to the ability of controling a greater dragon or a dread mare, Or compare it to having 64 mage spells and eval to make great damage. I mean, how can one even think that hiding and stealth needs a nerf?

Seriously.