Arty Based Poll

[Vaelix]

In the Hopes of getting *Anything* Changed, Here is another Poll. (We will never get Changes unless we push every single day)

This poll is Based singularly on Arties and Availability - Which is exactly the problem with siege right now, The Availability of Non Faction/Faction Arties for the Normal player (Non Powergamer)

 

[Chardonnay]

JOY!!! ANOTHER POLL!!!

 

[Arden]

Too many options. Take a research class.

 

[Chardonnay]

ZOMG!!! It's not public...FAIL!!!

 

[Vaelix]

Too many options. Take a research class.

" While there are several strategies for reaching consensus, all of them are predicated on a set of assumptions about a team. First and foremost it is assumed that everyone on the team shares the belief that it is their collective job to contribute to the success of the organization. Beyond that, the specific "legs" that support effective consensus building are common ground, commitment and capability.

Before asking a team to take on decision authority, check to make sure the fundamentals are in place. "

The reason I Included 5 Options was because people refuse to Vote unless the option they are voting for is Exactly what they want.

 

[Chardonnay]

" While there are several strategies for reaching consensus, all of them are predicated on a set of assumptions about a team. First and foremost it is assumed that everyone on the team shares the belief that it is their collective job to contribute to the success of the organization. Beyond that, the specific "legs" that support effective consensus building are common ground, commitment and capability.

Before asking a team to take on decision authority, check to make sure the fundamentals are in place. "

The reason I Included 5 Options was because people refuse to Vote unless the option they are voting for is Exactly what they want.

He sounds sooooo sexa when he talks like that...

 

[Arden]

" While there are several strategies for reaching consensus, all of them are predicated on a set of assumptions about a team. First and foremost it is assumed that everyone on the team shares the belief that it is their collective job to contribute to the success of the organization. Beyond that, the specific "legs" that support effective consensus building are common ground, commitment and capability.

Before asking a team to take on decision authority, check to make sure the fundamentals are in place. "

The reason I Included 5 Options was because people refuse to Vote unless the option they are voting for is Exactly what they want.

How does your quote say to have many options? Maybe I'm illiterate.

It says insure everyone believes they are helping...

Building commitment, common ground and capability is how you gain a consensus, now how you look for one.

 

[Vaelix]

How does your quote say to have many options? Maybe I'm illiterate.

It says insure everyone believes they are helping...

Building commitment, common ground and capability is how you gain a consensus, now how you look for one.

My quote basically says that a Team will never come together to make a Community based decision if a Poll is Biased, Hypocritical, Or Deemed Unfair in Anyway.

A good example of this is Including too Few or Too many Options (Which do or do not have any Strong Conviction behind them from the Community at large)

What we do have is..

Some People want Faction Silver Reduced
Some want Cursed Arties
Some People want Faction Arties Removed
Some People want Both
Some People want Nothing

In order to get an accurate percentage of the Overall Support of this Community, I had to Include Enough options to give everyone an incentive to vote as One of the Options is close enough to what they are Pushing for.

Otherwise Half the Community Votes, While the other Half doesnt and the Consensus Falls though because of Low Population / Support Turn out.

 

[Arden]

I see your point, its a bit of a stretch, but I see it. Still I disagree. It makes for a very hard arguement. Eventually, you will need to narrow down your choices to show a "consensus." Else you will have 5 options with ~40 people voting. Without one choice getting 30-35+ votes, not much of a consensus if you ask me.


I'll still vote.

 

[Vaelix]

I see your point, its a bit of a stretch, but I see it. Still I disagree. It makes for a very hard arguement. Eventually, you will need to narrow down your choices to show a "consensus." Else you will have 5 options with ~40 people voting. Without one choice getting 30-35+ votes, not much of a consensus if you ask me.


I'll still vote.

I agree with the Fact that You do need to narrow down your Choices.. However I was going off the Logic that..

X Amount of Voters spread across a 5 Option Poll nets X Percentage of a Consensus for X Results.

Where as, When you limit your Options, People (As i have said) Will refuse to vote on the Poll, Thus making it Inaccurate.

When people feel isolated in their ideals, (Few Options, Or Your Option Not Included) Generally I've found that they will ignore the whole situation instead of reaching a compromise with others..

5 Options was the Least Amount of Choices That i felt would give a Fair Example of our Standpoint as a Community, while including enough Choices for everyone without having multiple ridiculous options.

 

[Uvtha]

5 options is fine. Plenty of professional polls have more than 5 options for questions.

I would also like it to be public as well, so people can't make up stories about who is for or against what.

 

[Vaelix]

5 options is fine. Plenty of professional polls have more than 5 options for questions.

I would also like it to be public as well, so people can't make up stories about who is for or against what.

I made this Poll Private in the Hopes that People would come out and vote because they cannot be ridiculed by People who disagree with him. (Because they cannot see their Votes)

 

[Arden]

Poll - Options - Total Votes - days since posted

Kat - 2 - 36 - 1

Sturdy - 2 - 47 - 6

Forsaken - 4 - 50 - 7

Nightstalker - 11 - 24 - 3


I dont see the correlation between options and votes that you're seeing. In fact see the following:

All topics the same:

Kat - 2 options - each additional option generated 18 votes
Sturdy - 2 options - each additional option generated 23.5 votes
Forsaken - 2 options - each additional option generated 12.5 votes
Night - 11 options - each additional option generated 2.18 votes

 

[Arden]

5 options is fine. Plenty of professional polls have more than 5 options for questions.

I would also like it to be public as well, so people can't make up stories about who is for or against what.

Ive read many, its hard to draw real conclusions from them. Many, less than professional marketing research grps will have polls with many options then only pick the results that fit what the person paying them wants to see.

For example - 100 total votes

Option A - 1 vote
Option B - 24 votes
Option C - 25 votes
Option D - 25 votes
Option E - 25 votes

You will read something like.
"Out of 100 votes. Option E received the majority of results and in fact it did 24% better than option A. It is obvious Option E shows us the consensus of the people polled"

 

[Elmer Fudd]

Maybe I'm illiterate.

Winner Winner, Chicken Dinner!!

 

[Arden]

Maybe I'm illiterate.

Winner Winner, Chicken Dinner!!

Sigh.

 

[Vaelix]

Like I said..

These 5 Choices were the Closest thing I could get to what I have Seen Support from this community, without Adding Other Choices that *I have conviction to stand behind*


Including Fewer Options has the potential to make people feel discriminated against, Thus making them Avoid the Poll All together, Thus giving you an Overall less amount of Voters..

or

Including More options has the Potential to dilute the overall results of the Poll because they are spread out across various (And Sometimes Bogus) choices.

Basically with More Options.. Less of a Consensus is made due to results being too spread out..

Or with Less Options, Not enough of a Consensus is made due to people not voting because what they want specifically is not included in the Choices.

 

[Elmer Fudd]

Sigh.

...

 

[Kat]

Okay, I'm not going to vote just yet because I am torn. Now... Don't fall over or anything, but I do realize that factioners have to be considered in the cost to equip issue. I know! Shocking, right? Imagine that.

I really want to vote for the following:

Both Lowering Faction Silver Prices and Introducing a Non Faction Arty System

As I have said a billion times before, I have problems with the imbalance it creates between factioners and non-faction players. I certainly have other thoughts on the issue that I'll keep to myself for the sake of peace, but thats my main concern. I am not going to continue to debate or explain my position for the hundreth time because we [me and some BFF members] seem unable to have a respectful discussion on the matter and beyond that, I think we all know where we stand anyway. All I want is to somehow find a good balance that works for the majority.


Having said that, I've been trying to look at the situation to see if we were maybe overlooking some other options and I think we have. For the sake of finding some common ground... could the following be an acceptable compromise?


Stay with me now:

What if the faction arties themselves were adjusted to their original form and reduced to 3x prodo cost?

- The Donation Box would remain and you still get to choose your gear

- Factioners would still have the benefit of only having to farm silver instead of depending luck of the draw

- There would be a substantial reduction in price

- Non-Factioner's will have the higher drop rates of the same equipment and imbuing ingredients and Factioners also get that same benefit

 

[Vaelix]

The Price of The Faction gear could be up for debate, I'll leave that for everyone else to decide, However Kat..

This..

" As I have said a billion times before, I have problems with the imbalance it creates between factioners and non-faction players. I certainly have other thoughts on the issue that I'll keep to myself for the sake of peace, but thats my main concern. I am not going to continue to debate or explain my position for the hundreth time because we [me and some BFF members] seem unable to have a respectful discussion on the matter and beyond that, I think we all know where we stand anyway. All I want is to somehow find a good balance that works for the majority. "

----------------------

The Reasoning behind this (And I know I will come off as an Ass, but) is that This argument is invalid..

I have already Made a Non Faction Suit with Stats that Almost Mirror My Faction Suit in the Crucial Mods, The only Difference between the Two is 3 MR From my Orny, Slightly Higher HPI, And Requiring More Bora Pelts for Resists.

Those Bonuses I get from my Faction Suit in No way make me Overpowered against Someone That has Suited up Non Faction Properly.

My Faction Arties Suit include these Faction Arties..

Orny, Heart of the Lion, Crimson

Non Faction

Orny, Heart of the Lion, Crimson

*Universal*

Ancient Samurai Helm, Quiver of Infinity

My Faction Suit gets 3 MR and Maybe 1 or 2 Extra Imbued Stats because I need to Do An Extra Resist.. It is No where near Game Breaking Or Imbalanced.


------------

The only Imbalance between Factions and Non Factions is the Availability of Artifacts.

Reference?

Experience.. Having played Nearly Every Template in the Game, Having Played on Siege and Production, and having pvp experience in Both Factions and Non Factions.

 

[Kat]

I hear ya, Vaelix. The main problem is the cost of that suit and that needs to be addressed for everyone. I'm not interested in arguing, so I'll leave it there.

 

[Vaelix]

Btw, I PvPed Diablo for at least 10 Minutes last night..

His Faction Suit Vs My Non faction Suit..

The Fight was never one sided, I did however die, But Its only because I got Stam Blocked by a Polar bear in a Corner at the worse possible second.

Btw I survived on Foot (Bola) in my Non Faction Suit against him, pixies, and spell plague for 2 Minutes until i managed to re-mount and get away from the Pixies.

 

[Vaelix]

I hear ya, Vaelix. The main problem is the cost of that suit and that needs to be addressed for everyone. I'm not interested in arguing, so I'll leave it there.

Im very aware of the Cost Of the Suit, Which is exactly almost *All* of us Faction (And Evo) Are Pushing for -Both- Faction and non faction arties.

 

[Vaelix]

I hear ya, Vaelix. The main problem is the cost of that suit and that needs to be addressed for everyone. I'm not interested in arguing, so I'll leave it there.

Im not calling you out.. Or saying anything to get you Riled up..

But you'll Notice.. the Only People who have Been against Gear for Everyone, Have been You People (Who Are Against Faction Gear)

The only "Nos" From siege i have seen, have been people asking for Fair Easily Obtainable Non Faction arties, While turning around and saying they they Deny the Support for the *EXACT* Same thing, Faction Side.

 

[Mr.StinkyPants]

im all for a higher drop rate in artys, but i dont want them to be as awesome as faction artys cause then what would be the point of joining factions? just to fight orange? Y not just go back to good ole red versus blue if all the gear (non faction artys & fartys) were the same, it just makes factions pointless.

military/faction= best **** for the job and readily available for its soldiers
civilian/nonfaction=good ****, just requires a lil more hunting

 

[Vaelix]

I agree that there is Little incentive to be Factions other Than Gear/Statloss, however, This is the System that the Devs have decided to base the game upon, All we can do is hope to Expand that System in a way that Fills Siege's Unique Needs.

 

[Mr.StinkyPants]

I agree that there is Little incentive to be Factions other Than Gear/Statloss, however, This is the System that the Devs have decided to base the game upon, All we can do is hope to Expand that System in a way that Fills Siege's Unique Needs.

doodely ding dong tic tok

 

[Arden]

*Universal*

Ancient Samurai Helm, Quiver of Infinity

Still blessed?

 

[Vaelix]

No i have Tons of Throwaways

 

[Arden]

Are they still obtainable?

 

[Vaelix]

PM Sent.. Back on Track..

Basically i think that if we could all just get on Board with Gear for *Everyone*

Instead of this, Some people want gear for everyone, While other People only want gear for Non Faction players Based on the Illusion that The Faction counterparts are Too Overpowering.

If we were All pushing for the same idea I honestly think we might get some attention, Yes its delusional, but hey, screw it..

Now that its been explained (And Hopefully Realized) That....

With A New System for *BOTH* Lower Faction Gear, *AND* Non Faction Gear.. We would all be happy..

Kat said something about Non Faction Gear being harder to obtain, Yes!, Thats exactly why We want to push it..

If Both Factions and Non Factions have a reliable arty system, We could All PvP with low hassle re-equips for Everyone, Which Helps New/Practicing Players Even more, and might give them enough experience to Join Factions for That style of PvP.