Spell Plague: Is it overpowered or not? *A Poll*

[Bombastic Fail]

After much debate on these forums; I have decided to go ahead and post this. Many people believe (In the PVP community) that something is "clearly" overpowered when more than 75% or more of the PVP population is using it.

This stands true for a lot of things in the past. Some examples.

Greater Dragons. Word Of Death Stealth Archers. Death Striking Archer. Evasion Spam. 50+ Damage Armor Ignores. 50+ Damage Critical hits. Curses/Strangles (When the apple timer was 2 minutes). 4/6 Chiv Mages.

All of the above have been "nerfed" due to the very fact that *They were so strong, EVERYONE used them*.

Now; back to spell plague.

**For the record; I play both mages && dexxers alike**

I personally do not believe that the "spell" spell plague is over powered. The damage is fine.

The problem is the timer in which how long it lasts. With the long timer; it enables people to get all the damage off quickly and still be able to recast it to continue the damage. My solution is listed below.

I SAY..

Base it (The spell plague timer) off of resisting spells.

It would be as followed.

0 Resisting Spells (Elves/Gargs) = Spell Plague timer last 9 seconds

20 Resisting Spells (Human) = Spell Plague timer last 8 seconds

40 Resisting Spells = Spell Plague timer last 7 seconds

60 Resisting Spells = Spell Plague timer last 6 seconds

80 Resisting Spells = Spell Plague timer last 5 seconds

100 Resisting Spells = Spell Plague timer last 4 seconds

120 Resisting Spells = Spell Plague timer last 3 seconds

AKA

If you don't have resisting spells; it stays how it is (9 or 8 Seconds per Plague).

BUT IF YOU HAVE RESISTING SPELLS

This makes the spell "STILL USEFUL" how people use it anyways (A ton of damage fast) but makes RESISTING SPELLS useful.



Feel free to leave your own opinions or suggestions here.

DO NOT CAUSE A FLAME WAR.

We are trying to get the DEVs to actually look into this and let them decide based on the constructive criticism seen here.​

 

[the 4th man]

Is making a poll supposed to do something?? What, maybe get a dev to make things easier for the select few that choose to publicly humiliate themselves??




PVP........punk vs punk' nuff said.

 

[Llewen]

I'm not going to vote, but the idea in the op seems like a good one. Spell plague does seem a little strong still.

 

[Restroom Cowboy]

I'm not going to vote, but the idea in the op seems like a good one. Spell plague does seem a little strong still.

spoken like a true dexxer.

@the op...do you think UO should go back and retro fit all spells to be affected by resist? I don't see you crying about a change for strangle...or evil omen...or or...curse.

 

[Mervyn]

Epic fail of pol,

I refuse to vote because a vote to nerf spell plague will result in a devs tiny mind coming to the conclusion they must somehow make dexxers better than mages, when the biggest problem with spell plague is with bok bok dexxers using it.

 

[puni666]

I'm not voting either. Mysticism is over powered in general.

 

[Llewen]

I'm not going to vote, but the idea in the op seems like a good one. Spell plague does seem a little strong still.

spoken like a true dexxer.

I refuse to vote because a vote to nerf spell plague will result in a devs tiny mind coming to the conclusion they must somehow make dexxers better than mages, when the biggest problem with spell plague is with bok bok dexxers using it.

I find these two responses rather amusing. The first one assumes I play a dexxer as my main, which must be why I thought the op's idea was a good one, and immediately thereafter follows a post that the real problem with spell plague is the "bok bok dexxers" abusing it, which indicates a belief that dexxers are the ones getting the most benefit from spell plague...

I don't have a really strong opinion on this one to be honest. I haven't had too many problems with spell plague myself, but there is no doubt that it is being used an awful lot in pvp right now, as in just about every spell caster seems to use it, as well as many others that are not primarily spell casters. And usually when the majority of pvp'rs are using a particular tactic, it is a pretty good indication that something is in need of some "balancing"...

 

[Sevin0oo0]

I didn't vote, I'm a dexxer, can't remember being hit by this

Damage: 78-86(w/o armor?) not sure this is high enough to warrant a nurf. Is this cast by game generated toons, or irl players? In all 70's, would someone even notice this?

 

[spoonyd]

I play mages and dexxers as well. The reason why people say it's OP is because it's really the only thing good going for mages right now. Without mystic, mages are still underclassed to dexxers IMO. Back before the days of 40 SSI and double hit spell bows I'd agree that's its OP. Nevertheless AIs can still deal up to 50 some damage while a plague does around 20 and can be appled before any ticks go off.

For those that don't believe me about 50 dmg AIs....
35 (AI) + (7-8 lightning) + (7-8 velocity) = approx. 50 damage
...and you sure can't apple this very easily.

 

[Restroom Cowboy]

I find these two responses rather amusing. The first one assumes I play a dexxer as my main, which must be why I thought the op's idea was a good one, and immediately thereafter follows a post that the real problem with spell plague is the "bok bok dexxers" abusing it, which indicates a belief that dexxers are the ones getting the most benefit from spell plague...

I don't have a really strong opinion on this one to be honest. I haven't had too many problems with spell plague myself, but there is no doubt that it is being used an awful lot in pvp right now, as in just about every spell caster seems to use it, as well as many others that are not primarily spell casters. And usually when the majority of pvp'rs are using a particular tactic, it is a pretty good indication that something is in need of some "balancing"...

You DO play an archer tamer as your main. Yet here you are complaining because something else has been made as powerful as your template. Quite crying already and get some DCI on your template. If they can't hit you, the SP does no damage. There should be no reason for you to be up close on your template in the first place...if you are getting taken out by SP mystics on a dismounting tamer...you need to rethink your strategy.

 

[Flutter]

Last I knew Llewen was a mage tamer.

I am accepting bribes to log on my 47 stratics accounts and vote for whichever the highest briber wants.

 

[Restroom Cowboy]

Last I knew Llewen was a mage tamer.

I am accepting bribes to log on my 47 stratics accounts and vote for whichever the highest briber wants.

bah...mage? well shoot...still no reason for him to be up close to someone. I personally consider tamers, archers, and dexxers all to be just as gimp...in some cases moreso IF PLAYED WELL.

 

[Llewen]

You DO play an archer tamer as your main. Yet here you are complaining because something else has been made as powerful as your template. Quite crying already and get some DCI on your template. If they can't hit you, the SP does no damage. There should be no reason for you to be up close on your template in the first place...if you are getting taken out by SP mystics on a dismounting tamer...you need to rethink your strategy.

No I DON'T play an archer tamer. I play a tamer/mage as my main, and I'm not complaining about anything really. As I said, I don't really have that big a problem with mystics. Yes you did beat me with your mystic, but we all have bad days/moments, but that isn't what this is about. As I already said, my main character doesn't really have that big a problem with mystics, although they can be fairly potent in ganks especially.

My only observation is that it seems that every single mage out there now is running a mysticism template, and spamming spell plague. And as has already been noted, it isn't just limited to mages, there are plenty of other templates that are using mysticism, and spell plague specifically, as well. So much so that based on that observation alone, I'd say that something is out of whack, and spell plague is the most likely suspect.

It isn't good for the game and specifically for pvp when one tactic or spell becomes dominant, and that appears to be what is happening with spell plague. The op's solution seems like it is a good one, but obviously the egg heads need to get at it and thoroughly min/max it and test it to see if it really is.

One thing I do know is that I think corpse skin needs a buff. I think the amount it drops fire resist and poison resist should be increased to 25. So many are running templates with 85 fire and poison resists that the spell has become essentially useless. If that spell were given a bit of a buff it might also encourage a little diversity.

 

[Restroom Cowboy]

No I DON'T play an archer tamer. I play a tamer/mage as my main, and I'm not complaining about anything really. As I said, I don't really have that big a problem with mystics. Yes you did beat me with your mystic, but we all have bad days/moments, but that isn't what this is about. As I already said, my main character doesn't really have that big a problem with mystics, although they can be fairly potent in ganks especially.

My only observation is that it seems that every single mage out there now is running a mysticism template, and spamming spell plague. And as has already been noted, it isn't just limited to mages, there are plenty of other templates that are using mysticism, and spell plague specifically, as well. So much so that based on that observation alone, I'd say that something is out of whack, and spell plague is the most likely suspect.

It isn't good for the game and specifically for pvp when one tactic or spell becomes dominant, and that appears to be what is happening with spell plague. The op's solution seems like it is a good one, but obviously the egg heads need to get at it and thoroughly min/max it and test it to see if it really is.

One thing I do know is that I think corpse skin needs a buff. I think the amount it drops fire resist and poison resist should be increased to 25. So many are running templates with 85 fire and poison resists that the spell has become essentially useless. If that spell were given a bit of a buff it might also encourage a little diversity.

What do you expect when the rest of the field runs dread tamers and running shot dmg archers? Up until mysticism came out, only the very best pvper's could use mages. Speaking of diversity...rock, scissors, AND paper should have a chance to win...which at this point they do.

 

[Llewen]

Speaking of diversity...rock, scissors, AND paper should have a chance to win...which at this point they do.

Well that's it exactly - diversity. I'm not seeing a great deal of diversity when it comes to mages right now. It seems like every mage is running exactly the same template, with a few exceptions. It isn't good for the game when everyone starts playing scissors, to use your example.

Anyway, I think it's a useful discussion to have, and maybe spell plague doesn't need to be nerfed, maybe the issue is that some other things, for example necro, could use a buff of some sort. I see very few necro/mages out there now, and most of the few that I see playing necro/mages are just playing them until they have mysticism trained.

 

[spoonyd]

Well that's it exactly - diversity. I'm not seeing a great deal of diversity when it comes to mages right now. It seems like every mage is running exactly the same template, with a few exceptions. It isn't good for the game when everyone starts playing scissors, to use your example.

Anyway, I think it's a useful discussion to have, and maybe spell plague doesn't need to be nerfed, maybe the issue is that some other things, for example necro, could use a buff of some sort. I see very few necro/mages out there now, and most of the few that I see playing necro/mages are just playing them until they have mysticism trained.

This is the point I was trying to make with my post. It's not that mystic is so OP. It's that everything else just isn't any good really and corpse skin is a great example of an outdated spell/tactic.

 

[Cetric]

One thing I do know is that I think corpse skin needs a buff. I think the amount it drops fire resist and poison resist should be increased to 25. So many are running templates with 85 fire and poison resists that the spell has become essentially useless. If that spell were given a bit of a buff it might also encourage a little diversity.

Man... i'd have some necro/ss in every mage template i ever created again...

 

[JoO]

Three different ways to remove it and simply being able to offscreen after being hit with it makes it more than balanced imo.

 

[Cetric]

i tend to agree, i abuse spel plague as much as the enxt guy, but because of that, i know its weakness.

Take the mystic dexer, if u just apple that thing right when it hits u, and fizzle the next spell, ur typically golden. But out of everything that is spell plague oriented, i do believe that my mystic dexer is a tad bit on the overpowered side. When i can mow someone down in about 2.5 s, something is wrong.

 

[Dorinda]

I think myst needs a boost, such as: the casting spell be lowered to a first circle mage spell, initial damage equivalent to a flame strike, increase the tick damage, and add some sort of return mana leech from the spell so I can chain it.

Discuss.

 

[Dubar]

i like you I MEAN IT

 

[puni666]

If it stays this way then the old Word Of Death is justifiable how it was. Crazy a$$ cast time for high damage. Sure it's defend able... by running away just like spell plague, but what kind of tactic is that? It's like using confidence while running AWAY from the fight. It's dumb that running is forcibly the only tactic for defense for 80% of templates against this... or at least running until your apple timer is finished.

Honestly the Spell Plague effect seems to be more fit for the Discord Damage effect. The bard would hold the effect on a player to benefit everyone else around damage dealing wise.

 

[spoonyd]

You do know that Plague is the equiv of 7th circle right? Are you incapable of disrupting a spell that casts that slowly?

 

[Restroom Cowboy]

If it stays this way then the old Word Of Death is justifiable how it was. Crazy a$$ cast time for high damage. Sure it's defend able... by running away just like spell plague, but what kind of tactic is that? It's like using confidence while running AWAY from the fight. It's dumb that running is forcibly the only tactic for defense for 80% of templates against this... or at least running until your apple timer is finished.

Honestly the Spell Plague effect seems to be more fit for the Discord Damage effect. The bard would hold the effect on a player to benefit everyone else around damage dealing wise.

Maybe you should spend more time figuring out how to defend against it rather than complaining that something is broken? I can stay alive through a double spell plague with no apples by using only mini heal and a yellow pot...what seems to be your problem?

 

[puni666]

It's not the fact of surviving in a 1v1 it's how it throws everything off damage wise. In group fighting when one guy just kicks back and spams this spell it adds a good 90+ damage to any dump with in a few seconds time. Just like the old WoD added a good 80+ damage to any fight and threw all combat way out of wack. This is essentially the same thing.. just a different spell.

 

[Restroom Cowboy]

It's not the fact of surviving in a 1v1 it's how it throws everything off damage wise. In group fighting when one guy just kicks back and spams this spell it adds a good 90+ damage to any dump with in a few seconds time. Just like the old WoD added a good 80+ damage to any fight and threw all combat way out of wack. This is essentially the same thing.. just a different spell.

Not even close. Please bring something tangible to the table.

 

[Lynk]

Not even close. Please bring something tangible to the table.

While I think SP is fine the way it is, you're completely wrong that you can make it tick 5 times.

Just saying.

 

[NickyDishes]

I think it's fine the way it is......it gives us mages a chance to do decent damage to these dexxer/archer zergling speeders.

 

[Llewen]

I think it's fine the way it is......it gives us mages a chance to do decent damage to these dexxer/archer zergling speeders.

To imply that players playing mages are somehow more noble and less inclined to "zerg" or use cheats is ridiculous. It may well be that those playing mages are less likely to use scripts in pvp, but that isn't because they are more noble, it's because scripts are more likely to interfere with mage spell casting than, for example, weapon specials.

 

[Cetric]

the one shame to mysticism i see, like someone else mentioned, is it took away diversity big time. Right before mysticism came, there were very very very diverse mage templates, now its back to everyone playing a necro mage basically.

 

[Restroom Cowboy]

While I think SP is fine the way it is, you're completely wrong that you can make it tick 5 times.

Just saying.

I offered to show anyone who PMed me, you didn't PM me. Shush.

 

[WarUltima]

It's not the fact of surviving in a 1v1 it's how it throws everything off damage wise. In group fighting when one guy just kicks back and spams this spell it adds a good 90+ damage to any dump with in a few seconds time. Just like the old WoD added a good 80+ damage to any fight and threw all combat way out of wack. This is essentially the same thing.. just a different spell.

Old WoD beats spell plague by a million light years, do you even know what you are talking about?

WoD with per-toggled AI means you will die even if you are running away in straight line. You stand within the WoD archer's range (10-tile) for more than 0.25 sec you are dead period. If you die as quickly to spell plague please stop PvPing with 0 resist across the board.

Again it was so easy to WoD AI instant kill someone running away than it is to kill someone with spell plague RUNNING AWAY. I really hope you know what you are saying, because all your comments on WoD shows you have absolutely no clue.

 

[Restroom Cowboy]

the one shame to mysticism i see, like someone else mentioned, is it took away diversity big time. Right before mysticism came, there were very very very diverse mage templates, now its back to everyone playing a necro mage basically.

No, it didn't take away diversity...most I know still have and play the same chars they did before, but mysticism is the more viable option as it brings rock and paper up to snuff with scissors.

 

[Lynk]

I offered to show anyone who PMed me, you didn't PM me. Shush.

Someone I know did, and you never replied.

I will take my hat off to your trolling abilities. You even sucked me in.

 

[Restroom Cowboy]

Someone I know did, and you never replied.

I will take my hat off to your trolling abilities. You even sucked me in.

No one has PMed me to show them anything, absolutely no one. Please try again. Trolling? No...if I were trolling I wouldn't offer proof nor would my posts stick. I simply stick with my guns and speak up when people are wrong.

(the last PM I received was days ago, and from game staff...your *acquaintance* is full of poo poo.)

 

[puni666]

Old WoD beats spell plague by a million light years, do you even know what you are talking about?

WoD with per-toggled AI means you will die even if you are running away in straight line. You stand within the WoD archer's range (10-tile) for more than 0.25 sec you are dead period. If you die as quickly to spell plague please stop PvPing with 0 resist across the board.

Again it was so easy to WoD AI instant kill someone running away than it is to kill someone with spell plague RUNNING AWAY. I really hope you know what you are saying, because all your comments on WoD shows you have absolutely no clue.

Obviously it can't work that way now. And having no resists had squat to do with plague damage maybe the duration, but not the damage. I've run with resists for the past 4 years too btw... And it was a simple comparison to the initial 80+ damage from WoD to the over all 80+ damage which can be increased in duration from spell plague. WoD now a days would be far weaker then plague imo. Synced up it'd be ********, but then again look at spell plague synced... ironic isn't it?

 

[WarUltima]

Obviously it can't work that way now. And having no resists had squat to do with plague damage maybe the duration, but not the damage. I've run with resists for the past 4 years too btw... And it was a simple comparison to the initial 80+ damage from WoD to the over all 80+ damage which can be increased in duration from spell plague. WoD now a days would be far weaker then plague imo. Synced up it'd be ********, but then again look at spell plague synced... ironic isn't it?

Didnt I say "resists across the board?". In order for you to die to spell plague that will match WoD is if you are NAKED. Not referring to magic resist.

And all of a sudden YOUR OWN arguments became something else? You are the one that said SP and WoD the same and the only counter is to run away, and I proved with actual ingame experience and told you you are wrong because WoD combo cant be evaded by simply running away.

And if you are crying about the overall damage then you must also count the attack that generally used with the attack. SP initially hits for Ebolt dmg, WoD IGNORES ALL RESISTS and hits for 80+. WoD will need the following attack to reach its full potential (which means running away will help) while WoD AI hits at the sametime and will instantly kill anyone with less than 130hp (and 130 is on the low end) this is something SP can never achieve unless you are naked.

So concludes all the info
WoD AI: No counter if WoD is precasted.
Spell Plague: 1. Run away, 2. Disrupt the proceeding dmg 3. Apple 4. Remove Curse 5. Cleaning wind and so on.

So again you are wrong because there are MANY counters to SP and zero to WoD AI other than pushing your HP close to 150 which was nearly impossible back in the days.

Not saying SP isnt overpowered but saying SP=WoD so it needs to be nerfed is utterly stupid and ******** for arguments sake.

 

[puni666]

You can't prep the AI's like you used to be able to. That in turn makes it so you can flee and evade the next attack like SP. SP nerve strike is essentially the same amount of damage since while nerve struck they pretty much swing till they hit you again or recast SP and repeat everything all over again. And if you box the nerve strike well you run the chance of SP explosion damage, and the next nerve strike hitting you anyways unless you can insta box :/.

And actually if you want to get all technical about it
WoD's 80 Damage
AI's 35+9 Damage
with a max of 50% chance to hit with a properly defended player
124 damage

SP 20 damage
Nerve Strikes 34+9 Damage
SP Tick for 10 damage
(they're stuck so the next hit's 100%)
Nerve Strikes 34+9 Damage
SP tick for 10 damage
126 damage... oh wait
Trigger bombard 25 Damage
151

Seems to me like it's about on par with WoD+AI

 

[Restroom Cowboy]

You can't prep the AI's like you used to be able to. That in turn makes it so you can flee and evade the next attack like SP. SP nerve strike is essentially the same amount of damage since while nerve struck they pretty much swing till they hit you again or recast SP and repeat everything all over again. And if you box the nerve strike well you run the chance of SP explosion damage, and the next nerve strike hitting you anyways unless you can insta box :/.

And actually if you want to get all technical about it
WoD's 80 Damage
AI's 35+9 Damage
with a max of 50% chance to hit with a properly defended player
124 damage

SP 20 damage
Nerve Strikes 34+9 Damage
SP Tick for 10 damage
(they're stuck so the next hit's 100%)
Nerve Strikes 34+9 Damage
SP tick for 10 damage
126 damage... oh wait
Trigger bombard 25 Damage
151

Seems to me like it's about on par with WoD+AI

You still forgot about apples...heals...pots...

Oh and missing with the hit...missing the sp tick...ect ect ect.

As stated before you like to embellish the *truth* a bit too much.


The ONLY possible way your scenario is going to pan out is if the person is unarmed and afk.

 

[Lynk]

Oh and missing with the hit...missing the sp tick...ect ect ect.

THERE IS NO WAY TO MISS AN SP TICK.

It just has to be 1 second after the first.....

 

[puni666]

As stated before you like to embellish the *truth* a bit too much.

You obviously haven't been face to face with a good sized group with these players in it. Or you're just one of the people that like to use it as the new crutch you find necessary and don't want it balanced out with everything else. You think it's embellishing the truth lol just play on GL on a well populated night and tell me to just apple through it. You'll spend all night running waiting for your apple timer to pop back up.

 

[Restroom Cowboy]

You obviously haven't been face to face with a good sized group with these players in it. Or you're just one of the people that like to use it as the new crutch you find necessary and don't want it balanced out with everything else. You think it's embellishing the truth lol just play on GL on a well populated night and tell me to just apple through it. You'll spend all night running waiting for your apple timer to pop back up.

If you are fighting in a large group and get smacked around...dont blame spell plague...its called a gank. rolleyes:

 

[Restroom Cowboy]

THERE IS NO WAY TO MISS AN SP TICK.

It just has to be 1 second after the first.....

Yes, there most certainly is. You claim that there is a max of three...I called BS and OFFERED to prove it. By only hitting three you are missing several other potential ticks.

No way to miss? BS...if you don't time things correctly it does not go off.

I am done trying to explain things as you are more interested in trolling my posts than seeing how things work.

FYI...your buddy never PMed me, you never PMed me...so what is the purpose? rolleyes:

 

[puni666]

If you are fighting in a large group and get smacked around...dont blame spell plague...its called a gank. rolleyes:

You'll never get it. You're to stubborn in your ways to even realize what's going on.

 

[Ls Jax Ls]

There is no debate here...spell plague is overpowered no matter how you look at it. Anyone who says otherwise doesn't know what pvp is.

 

[Restroom Cowboy]

You'll never get it. You're to stubborn in your ways to even realize what's going on.

LOL...ok. I guess since I am not in your shoes I will not understand what it is like to fight more than one mystic in a group (gank) fight.

 

[Restroom Cowboy]

There is no debate here...spell plague is overpowered no matter how you look at it. Anyone who says otherwise doesn't know what pvp is.

Nope...I guess I don't. *sadface*

 

[Ls Jax Ls]

Obviously, being as you defend it like your unborn child. Seems to me someone benefited quite a bit from mister spell plague.

 

[Restroom Cowboy]

No...if you look at my posting history i only defend things I think are in need of being defended...whether or not I make use of what is defended is inconsequential. In this case, I can survive SP regardless of what type of mage I use, mystic...necro...or scribe.

Too many times things get changed in this game because people cry, I quite honestly think it is tiresome. Funny how those same people who were playing temps that were overpowered before mysticism are crying about mysticism now. So please, if you are going to trash me for defending something that levels the playing field...at least tell the type of toon you play for a main character.

Yes, mysticism IS beneficial to me...because I don't play anything aside from mages. As others have mentioned...mysticism gives mages a chance to level the otherwise skewed playing field from a year ago.

 

[Ls Jax Ls]

Mage - I'll fight any of your mages and show you just how OP spell plague is. Also, please don't insult me by acting like I don't know what I'm talking about. I've played every mage template there is. And yes, I will most likely destroy you.

By the way, I'd rather lose to every dexxer I fight than turn mage PvP into the joke it is now.