I'll never forget when UO first came out

[soze]

Classic Shard -> Build it -> Many 10,000s of PvEers leave -> UO shuts down Permanently

This line of logic doesn't make sense. 1: a classic shard would bring back players and reactivate idle accounts, creating incremental growth

2: the fees collected from this incremental growth goes to EA

3: why would existing players vacate their shards because of a classic shard? If it's to play on the classic shard, then how does that hurt EA?

 

[MalagAste]

NO more the logic is this....

They build a "Classic" shard...

Get about 3k players to "come back" with free bonus... this lasts about 3 months .....

Everyone gets bored remembers why they didn't like this or that.... whines complains..... and 20k in people quit..... because it wasn't what they remembered.

Then UO closes because now they have wasted too much invested programmer time and energy into a shard that doesn't last and is all too soon less populated that Siege...

That is the most likely scenario.

 

[Lord Chaos]

The risk of dying to another player was always far more thrilling than the risk of dying to a monster because you could always lure a monster away from your corpse...but players don't fall for that.

So its more thrilling to just go away, lose it all with no chance of doing anything, over actually having something you can do?

lol, the wacked up logic of old players.

 

[soze]

NO more the logic is this....

They build a "Classic" shard...

Get about 3k players to "come back" with free bonus... this lasts about 3 months .....

Everyone gets bored remembers why they didn't like this or that.... whines complains..... and 20k in people quit..... because it wasn't what they remembered.

Then UO closes because now they have wasted too much invested programmer time and energy into a shard that doesn't last and is all too soon less populated that Siege...

That is the most likely scenario.

how does the 3k players coming back and leaving because their expectations are not met equate to 20k players leaving?

 

[Willard]

Hail Folks,

I think you have faulty memories. During the first 2 years following launch, let alone the first week, L ... A ... G didn't allow anyone to run from Britain to Trinsic or vice versa. And though it should have come as No Surprise, human beings anonymously unleashed on a virtual world, quickly descended to their lowest levels of depravity.

Lol...The Lag is the thing I remember most too. I thought the Bounty system was awesome...too bad it had to go, but i still have 3 heads saved from that time.

 

[Babble]

If the Classic shard is the next expansion/next big project and takes 2 years. Then PvEers will have to wait another 2 years after that for an expansion that caters to them. So 4 years of nothing for the majority of customers.

You think PvEers will keep paying for nothing for 4 years? No way. You ignore the majority of your customers and cater to only a small minority, they will leave.

Pfff cataclysm comes out end of this year. Lotr goes f2p as some eq2 servers.
And you think PvE in UO get something more interesting than those games provide for PvE?

Those PvE stayed with UO through far leaner times and most of the time it is because of housing. Throw in more decoration and people should be happy. micro charge them for items and make more profit.

Is there really anyone who plays UO for the PvE? And if care to explain why UO and not another game?

I play UO for the roleplay opportunities and most of the things since AOS I could live without.

 

[MalagAste]

how does the 3k players coming back and leaving because their expectations are not met equate to 20k players leaving?

That's 3K in players who came back and 7k in players disappointed because it wasn't everything they expected and have been crying for for how long leaving.

And another 10k in players leaving because most of their friends did or because they feel the dev's ignored them on the other shards.

 

[TitusPullo]

Pfff cataclysm comes out end of this year. Lotr goes f2p as some eq2 servers.

Honestly, soon as Cataclysm hits, I'm back in WoW. My wife, sister, two nephews and a few friends are all jumping to Lord of the Rings as soon as it goes F2P next month.

Hopefully, UO goes F2P before they miss the gravy train. UO could be revitalized and see a much larger commitment from EA if it reached even half the success D&D Online has seen since their F2P launch.

 

[NorCal]

I wonder where some of the anti-classic trolls get their numbers. Why do they swear that a optional ruleset will kill UO. I agree it's nothing more then fear mongering. How come every poster with a low post count is the same 4-5 people using alternate accounts. Did you ever think people are talking about this in other forums and they come here because this is the place to let the Devs know they support the idea? Funny that it is the same 4-5 anti-classic trolls in every thread that even mentions anything "classic".

How did you come up with these numbers show me your research.

Only 1000-3000 people will play a classic shard.

It will take 2 years to make a classic shard and UO will go without content for 4 years. I'm confused here didn't pub 67 just come out. Publishes are the content you get between expansions in any MMO I ever played. Didn't SA come out last year around this time? Do you know they aren't already working on an expansion?

That the creation of a classic shard will cost UO between 10000-20000 players that don't even want to play a optional shard.

Where are you getting these numbers from? You don't have to answer I already know you made them up. Pure fear mongering.

 

[soze]

how does the 3k players coming back and leaving because their expectations are not met equate to 20k players leaving?

That's 3K in players who came back and 7k in players disappointed because it wasn't everything they expected and have been crying for for how long leaving.

And another 10k in players leaving because most of their friends did or because they feel the dev's ignored them on the other shards.

Soooo. The 7k that already enjoy the game currently will up and leave completely because the classic shard will not meet expectations, or are just hanging around in hopes of a classic shard? Either way....I don't get it.

And another 10000 will go because the devs can't walk and chew gum. I don't think they would risk abandoning current subscribers in order to perfect a new shard, especially if,according to your estimates, would only be 3k.

The theories about a classic shards potential negative impact on the current subsciber base seem based in some really unsound logic. The reason for a classic shard is to attract an old player base and maybe keep around a few vets. I really don't think the dev team would undertake a classic shard if it would in any way harm content on the main shards....lesson learned from KR client.

 

[Evlar]

Back in the old days, people didn't have billions of gold in their banks. Everyone didn't have GM smiths, and GM tailors, because you couldn't just buy all the ingots and cloth from scripters using the billions of gold you had in your bank.

Back then, a GM smith really meant something, because that person had gone out and mined and mined and mined...manually...and crafted and crafted and crafted...also manually, to make it to GM. It took a long time, instead of the week or so it takes now. So just "banging out" 5 new suits was not quite as easy as you make it out to be.

I was one of those miners and smiths, to begin with. Mighty proud of that I was too. It did mean a great deal.

What was the biggest reward for me, spending all that time working up the skills (manually), gathering the materials (manually), making all the stuff (manually)?

The sense of importance and value within the escapist fantasy world I inhabited, which enhanced the interaction amongst players and opened up all manner of possibilities and ways to play the game. Even one's I had never considered "getting into".

It was the door that opened onto my enjoyment of all that UO had to offer. Believe me, I've pretty much done it all. I wasn't bored of the game though, but I was disenchanted with what it has become.

There's more items, more lands, more monsters... but mostly, these things cater to predominately one way of playing the game. Why does the game feel smaller then? It's not that the population has reduced, for me at least.

For me, it's the fact that I'm no longer able to do all the things I used to do. There's just so many activities, skills and places, which have either have no importance or point to them now, or have simply ceased to exist, or have been nerfed into oblivion.

Back then less was more, but also, more could be done with less.

Why does it seem like now, although on the surface there seems like there's a lot more, break through the crust and what's underneath is far from inspiring.

 

[Orgional Farimir]

*Everything* is a novelty money grab besides corn ( and even corn is if you buy organic).

What about Creamed Corn I love that....

And please can we keep logic out of this conversation. Logic belongs NO WHERE in a classic shard thread. State Law you can look it up.

 

[HD2300]

Who is talking of quitting or how bad things have gotten......

ive seen at least ten long term vets quit in the past month..

DAoC failed. WAR failed. So now Mythic is turning UO into another 3 factions PvP game. PvEers have been getting the scraps now. That is why people are leaving.

35,000 quit in 2007 because of no new content. You add on the Classic shard and it will be the final nail in the coffin. PvEers will see that their time will be better spent in a game that caters to and rewards PvEers, not in a game that caters to a minority.

 

[HD2300]

If the Classic shard is the next expansion/next big project and takes 2 years. Then PvEers will have to wait another 2 years after that for an expansion that caters to them. So 4 years of nothing for the majority of customers.

You think PvEers will keep paying for nothing for 4 years? No way. You ignore the majority of your customers and cater to only a small minority, they will leave.

Pfff cataclysm comes out end of this year. Lotr goes f2p as some eq2 servers.
And you think PvE in UO get something more interesting than those games provide for PvE?

Precisely. And if during this time EA decides to do a Classic Shard... which means 4 years until the expansion after that. It is Cataclysm. Many 10,000s of PvEers (the majority) will leave for LOTRO, D&D and EQ2. Shut Down the Servers Baby.

 

[Demonous]

I'll never forget how awesome and what a thrill this game was it's first few years.

I remember the first week of launch, running from Brit to Trinsic. Half way there, I ran into a group of murderers who proceeded to paralyze and kill me.

It was in that moment I realized that gaming had forever changed. No more saving and reloading, if you died, there was real consequences!

Unfortunately, I was wrong. In that respect, gaming hadn't forever changed.

Slowly but surely, Ultima Online started to loose it's risk, it's thrill. Other games followed the same trend. You die? No problem. You loose a bit of experience, or a bit of gold. For me, the thrill was lost.

I'm definitely in the minority in respect to my views. All the same, I really miss that thrill in my games!

you are far from being alone, i got your back :gun: i didnt even play when it was felucca only, i joined a few months after tram came out but i really wish i played in fel only... i heard incredible stories, aos killed old school uo, thieves are so worthless now, forced to steal stuff in dungeons rather than from players and running away, pvp was fun and all risk involved back in the day i miss it so much well thats why i play darkfall too cause right there is UO felucca only and extreme risk involved in all u do, i used to be a hardcore pvper in uo for a long time even after aos for a few years but since spellweaving and mysticism and all that it just is not much fun at all, im waiting till a classic shard comes out before i care about pvp in uo

 

[FishinFool]

And they just happen to come here right at this time? uh-huh?

Seems quite a bit fishy.

What's hard to accept about normal people wanting to stay away from a bunch of prima donnas and power drunk "editors".

 

[Evlar]

DAoC failed. WAR failed. So now Mythic is turning UO into another 3 factions PvP game. PvEers have been getting the scraps now. That is why people are leaving.

Really...

PvE'ers "getting the scraps"?

Are you having a laugh?

For the last eight years, easily, PvE has accounted for most of the content of this game. Isn't it the fact that PvE is "statistically" more popular amongst gamers, what you usually preach? So you're rejecting the fact that mostly PvE content has been added to UO over the years now?

So the developers decide to spend a little time working on much needed fixes or changes for PvP areas of the game, or initiate a little work as requested by Siege players, or even arenas. So what, they've suddenly stopped work on everything else?

I don't think so!

In the grand scheme of things, they're still providing more PvE content, than PvP content.

...over nothing!

 

[Lord Chaos]

What's hard to accept about normal people wanting to stay away from a bunch of prima donnas and power drunk "editors".

Point taken.

 

[Morgana LeFay (PoV)]

So its more thrilling to just go away, lose it all with no chance of doing anything, over actually having something you can do?

lol, the wacked up logic of old players.

It's called challenge. Now, I fully understand that it is has been a long, long time since UO held any of that, but it shouldn't be a completely foreign concept...I mean, really.

 

[Lord Chaos]

It's called challenge. Now, I fully understand that it is has been a long, long time since UO held any of that, but it shouldn't be a completely foreign concept...I mean, really.

How exactly is it a challenge? You die, you lose your stuff, you start over. Thats not a challenge at all.

 

[Aragon100]

How exactly is it a challenge? You die, you lose your stuff, you start over. Thats not a challenge at all.

So you honestly dont understand the difference between insurance and full loot and how that effect your gameplay and ingame experience?

Full loot add a challenge and a thrill to the game even if the items is easily replacable. It's like poker, you add something of value to the pot and get some more thrill out of the game.

Die to a player is usually lost items, die to a monster is not loosing items if you're fast back to the scene.

Insurance remove above completely as long as you have money in your bank and that is not a problem in UO of today. Insurance make the game uninteresting to players like me.

 

[Zodia]

How exactly is it a challenge? You die, you lose your stuff, you start over. Thats not a challenge at all.

The "challenge" is to not die.

 

[Dermott of LS]

...

Full loot add a challenge and a thrill to the game even if the items is easily replacable

So let's have a nice bug that randomly causes everything you're carrying and wearing to delete itself at odd times for no reason whatsoever.

CHALLENGE!!!

Yeah... I didn't think so either.

 

[Fat Midnight]

I think you have faulty memories. During the first 2 years following launch, let alone the first week, L ... A ... G didn't allow anyone to run from Britain to Trinsic or vice versa.

Compare you PC and internet connection to what you had 10-13 years ago. WTF make you think that the lag would make a return?

And though it should have come as No Surprise, human beings anonymously unleashed on a virtual world, quickly descended to their lowest levels of depravity.

I am truly sorry that no one was there to hold your hand and and tell you its okay back then.

If the Classic shard is the next expansion/next big project and takes 2 years. Then PvEers will have to wait another 2 years after that for an expansion that caters to them. So 4 years of nothing for the majority of customers.

How could it take 2 years to develop a classic shard? It would be pretty stupid to reinvent the wheel. I have a T2A disk still, if Cal asked I would mail it to him. Software to run a shard from the era is available for DL if you look around.

Its funny people arguing against what others want. I don`t remember being asked if I wanted Tram,Item insurance, AOS.

 

[Fat Midnight]

Alsom I personaly know about a dozen former UO players that have said they would come back if there was a classic shard.

 

[NorCal]

How exactly is it a challenge? You die, you lose your stuff, you start over. Thats not a challenge at all.

For me it's not about a challenge, it's about the risk of losing gear. That risk helps even the playing field for everyone from the poor to the super rich. It means that pvpers don't have to pve to farm 100s of millions for the perfect suit and powerscrolls or else they won't be competitive. Personally I enjoy PvE, but I can't stand being outgeared in PvP. Losing because of a gear disadvantage is so frustrating. The barrier of entry is very high for a new or returning player because of this. Though I'm sure Imbueing has help this somewhat. It's about balance IMO. An even playing field.

If you want UO to not only add new and returning players, but keep them the biggest challenge will be barrier of entry in a 13 year old game, with billionairs running around and a screwed up economy. I just recently activated my old account and pricing out what I need makes me not want to even try.

 

[Dermott of LS]

...

I don't think the question is if they will come back, the question is... for how long?

THAT is the biggest question in regards to a classic shard.

 

[Evlar]

...

I don't think the question is if they will come back, the question is... for how long?

THAT is the biggest question in regards to a classic shard.

Entirely a valid question, but likely one that will only be answered after the fact and a passage of time.

The apparent popularity of the "free" servers, would suggest there's a long-term demand though. Granted, they're "free". Many will likely play those servers for that simple fact alone. I'm sure there will be a sufficient number who are prepared to pay to play an "officially" sanctioned classic option though.

I really don't think we're talking huge numbers, as have been bandied about in some of the debates. Anything from enough to make it worthwhile (a few thousand?), to potentially equal to those currently playing production shards in North America, which is actually a smaller portion of the overall percentage. I understand Asian players account for the majority these days?

 

[Lady Storm]

Classic Shard.............

If they make it exactly like the first day of UO back in '97 with the full gamot of critters and things that were in the publish then....
I expect it will be a big hit for about 6 months to 1 year...

Thats if they do it exactly ....

I mean NO:
Arties- all you get is old system grade armor and weapons - top weapon is vanq
Sots - work your tail off to get your skill the old fashioned way
Trammel -Dont exsist, TerMur -Dont exsist, Tokuno -Dont exsist
Plots/new houseing - just the plain vanilla houses we had(1 secure 125/400 stones, 15 lock downs, house key to lock door.) psst you will need to lock it, last time I forgot ..Lich came to dinner...
NO golums to beat on - just your neighborly trolls and orges
No rune books, Nothing but the basic 64 spell book you have come to know.
No bods, noting enhanced your back to basic dye tubs and dyes
No necro's, no ninjas, nothing from any other expantion at all
No ethys - nada! no Rewards period.
No Repair deeds - you will need to know a smith/tailor/tinker/carpenter
You want classic that is classic you want to go back to a time when none of what exsists today is there and baby IF you didnt play then are you in for a shock.
If they revamp it or change it in any way its not a true classic shard.

 

[NorCal]

Dermott you're right I think they will come and the question is for how long. The appeal of a true sandbox game like UO was might surprise you how well it retains players. When was the last time you saw someone play a crafter as their main standing at Brit Anvil repairing and making armor all day, a true role playing guild like the Shadowclan Orcs, someone who played a thief as their main or pvp not balance around gear. A game not about EA telling you what endgame is by adding content to get more powerful gear just like WoW. It's about using your imagination and deciding what endgame is yourself. It will be appealing to a lot of people looking for the opposite of a theme park.

 

[Evlar]

Obviously there are other games that have tried to grasp some of those principals NorCal, targeting a niche of players, many of which are former UO players.

The biggest problem so far has been, they aren't UO.

UO as was, for the players who enjoyed the more "classic" periods, is a very large benchmark when compared with other games. In the main, they fail to live up to expectations.

Interestingly, I've been following the forums for the forthcoming Fallout Online game. There's a lot of seasoned MMO players, many of whom played UO, who are asking for/suggesting things they miss from "old" UO.

 

[Lord Chaos]

For me it's not about a challenge, it's about the risk of losing gear.

Don't insure your stuff, challenge restored.

 

[curlybeard]

I just started my free trial up after having been away from Ultima Online since about a year after Age of Shadows launched.

Welcome Back

I remember the thrill when I logged on this morning. I was running through the hedge maze (slightly tweaking stealth on my ninja mystic template), ran over the bridge and was stopped by a troll. I had forgotten that was there.

 

[NorCal]

Don't insure your stuff, challenge restored.

Obviously you didn't read the whole post or just decided to take one line out of context. I said it wasn't about the challenge it was about balance created by risk. It lowers the barrier to entry. I recently activated my old account and I'll tell you the truth I doubt I'll stick around long because of a huge barrier of entry.

It's a problem current UO will have in retaining new and returning player.

 

[Dermott of LS]

...

Norcal and Evlar, the thing is that the Devs have to be able to figure out the "how long" question PRIOR to the opening of a Classic shard, not after the fact in order to get it to fly past the "suits". And given what we read from Draconi a few weeks back, that could be difficult at best considering that they upper management seems to change directions on a whim... sometimes for the good, oft-times though leaving possibilities untouched.

 

[Evlar]

I understand everything you say clearly Dermott. They would be daft not to do the feasibility study. Even with positive suggestions and projections from such a feasibility study, it's still no guarantee that it'll go ahead. Like you say, the "suits" still have to be convinced. After all, the project would require additional funding and development staff. Trying to do it within the existing staff and budget, would be detrimental to both "current" and "classic". That serves no purpose, but to annoy both groups of players.

What I was suggesting, is that there's no guarantees of how many will actually play, or indeed, stay playing, until "after the fact".

That's pretty much the same for the release of any game.

Suffice it to say, I think a classic option has serious potential. I doubt it would even still be under consideration if that weren't the case. Obviously, I await any further news and developments, with great interest.

 

[KnowYourEnemy]

if they make a classic shard, how are they going to bring the oldschool players back? how do ya find them? surely many of the players who quit don't bother visiting uo websites anymore. so if a classic shard is up, it won't be known.

 

[Zodia]

if they make a classic shard, how are they going to bring the oldschool players back? how do ya find them? surely many of the players who quit don't bother visiting uo websites anymore. so if a classic shard is up, it won't be known.

Many of those ex-players read MMO websites. It will be covered.

Combine some mass emails from EA to "Return to the Classic Era" to those players, maybe sprinkle in some advertising.

And don't forget word of mouth among people.

I really don't think the problem is getting people to know about it. That will happen. Lots of people don't play anymore yet keep checking in every now and then hoping UO will return to its better days. It's almost a cliche when I see UO discussed on non-UO websites: "Trammel ruined UO... if they just went back to how it used to be..."

I've said many times I believe tens of thousands of old players will return. The only thing is.... I can't be proven right or wrong until they make the Classic Shard happen. So, let's just do it already!

 

[Evlar]

Well, if anyone wants a fix of old screen shots from 1997, I happened across this lot...

Ultima Online classic screenshot gallery

 

[Zodia]

Well, if anyone wants a fix of old screen shots from 1997, I happened across this lot...

Ultima Online classic screenshot gallery

Awesome!

These are 2 of my favs showing the people trying to get to the Orc fort to fight, but hindered by the push-thru problem.

and this shows that player houses used to be pickable... That didn't last long (if memory serves).

 

[HD2300]

Classic Shard.............
I expect it will be a big hit for about 6 months to 1 year...

I give it a couple of months. It is going to be accurate and bug free right? NOT!!!

So whats going to happen is after a couple of months, people will start saying, hey speedhacking, its inaccurate and bugs are bs, theres none of that on Freeshard A and Freeshard B and they are FREE. Then everyone playing it (returning and existing players) will move over to the FREE Freeshard A and Freeshard B.

At the same time, 10000s of the PvEers will have left for F2P LOTRO and EQ2 which cater to PvEers.

Build a Classic Shard => UO will shut down

Thats why it will never happen. But keep begging until Christmas. Ho Ho Ho. Then they will most probably say the decision will be delayed until Easter. SUCKERS. LMAO.

 

[Lord Velner]

I do not understand why building a Classic Shard will require the Developers to ignore the PvE base.

First off, a Classic Shard is not necessarily only about PVP. Some people (myself included) enjoy the extra thrill that nonconsenual PVP adds to a game, while not being particularly interested or skilled at it. So I think it's a little absurd to say that a Classic Shard caters only to the PVP players.

Second, and more importantly, why does everybody seem to think that creating a classic shard will require the entire attention of Mythic for an extended period of time? I play on a freeshard currently (although I'm slowly trying to get myself back in on Atlantic), UO Second Age, which emulates accurately the T2A Era (Nov-Dec 1999). It is run by a fairly small staff (it may even be only one person). I'm fairly confident that creating a Classic Shard would not shut down PVE Content for a year or two, as some have suggested earlier in the thread.

Of course, this whole idea that players will leave if Mythic doesn't cater to them seems a bit weak, anyway. That argument implies that Mythic does not cater to PVP players now, yet Felucca Yew has dead bodies around the gate almost all the time.

Ultimately, a Classic Shard would simply be an extra shard for those interested. It will have absolutely no impact on any other shard. For what it's worth, I would definitely play an official T2A shard - it would likely have a better population than any free shard. Although Mythic will not get any more money from me (I keep my accounts active) it would bring an active player which could help support growth. But if it doesn't work out with EA/Mythic, UO Second Age is a great place to re-live the old days.

 

[Argoas]

Second, and more importantly, why does everybody seem to think that creating a classic shard will require the entire attention of Mythic for an extended period of time? I play on a freeshard currently (although I'm slowly trying to get myself back in on Atlantic), UO Second Age, which emulates accurately the T2A Era (Nov-Dec 1999). It is run by a fairly small staff (it may even be only one person). I'm fairly confident that creating a Classic Shard would not shut down PVE Content for a year or two, as some have suggested earlier in the thread.

ANd more important, how many years have been UO alive since age of shadows??? More than 5. If there is needed developer's help to make this game funny, that means something is wrong. And, as you said, there are many free shards that runs thanks by a small team. Releasing a shard with old stuff (and even something new as clothes, whatever....) doesnt need a whole team. At least, i think so.

 

[Fat Midnight]

I give it a couple of months. It is going to be accurate and bug free right? NOT!!!

So whats going to happen is after a couple of months, people will start saying, hey speedhacking, its inaccurate and bugs are bs, theres none of that on Freeshard A and Freeshard B and they are FREE. Then everyone playing it (returning and existing players) will move over to the FREE Freeshard A and Freeshard B.

At the same time, 10000s of the PvEers will have left for F2P LOTRO and EQ2 which cater to PvEers.

Build a Classic Shard => UO will shut down

Thats why it will never happen. But keep begging until Christmas. Ho Ho Ho. Then they will most probably say the decision will be delayed until Easter. SUCKERS. LMAO.

When has anyone EVER said that UO was bug free? So you are saying that the current system is completely perfect in a way that a T2A era shard could not be?
Looking at your posts I can tell you have a strong hate for the way UO used to be, and the players that were there to enjoy it.

720 skill points for 4 yr vets versus 700 skill points for new players isnt fair too.
Since there are so many skill+ items, how about they reverse it so that new players get 720 skill points, and vets get 700.

PvPers have Seige. It is time for PvMers to have a Tram only shard.

Really if you want hand holding, life affirming, guide me the way MMO, go play WoW.

 

[Evlar]

Precisely. And if during this time EA decides to do a Classic Shard... which means 4 years until the expansion after that. It is Cataclysm. Many 10,000s of PvEers (the majority) will leave for LOTRO, D&D and EQ2. Shut Down the Servers Baby.

I would just like to ask you some simple questions, whilst you're doing exactly what your forum signature suggests others do...

Given UO subscription numbers are apparently in continual decline, do you think yet another expansion with halt the decline, or even raise subscriptions, in the long term?

How many expansions and what sort of client updates/improvements, are likely to encourage a growth in UO subscriptions?

Would the investment required to produce and launch another expansion, guarantee more players stay/return/try "current" UO, any more than would stay/return/try a "classic" option?

Of course, the last question is pretty much impossible to answer. None of us has access to accurate enough figures. Those which you're happy to bandy around, have absolutely no basis. Just as anyone who claims tens of thousands would flock to play a classic option. They have no real proof to back up their claims and neither do you.

Let me put it this way, the majority current player base has the game they asked for. The game as they wanted it. But are they happy with it. Well, it doesn't look that way if subscriptions continue to decline and Stratics users continue to complain about all manner of things, does it?

So what will eventually kill UO?

I would say the players themselves, or the lack of them, in the long term. It won't matter if it's current or classic that's on offer.

Insofar as losing out in any way to what "classic" supporters are seeking, I really don't think you have anything to worry about.

Assuming it does get the green light, the evidence we have from Cal's comments thus far, is that a business proposal is/was required, would require an investment, needs to be fully researched and as such, a focus group has been established. This would suggest to me, that to produce a classic option, will require extra/separate funding and manpower.

It's extra funding and manpower that would produce a classic option for UO, not the existing level of funding (whatever that may be), that you're concerned about losing.

A classic option wouldn't impact the game play on the shards you prefer playing on, unless droves of production shard players jumped ship to play the "classic" option. Theoretically, if that were to happen and your chosen preferences became the minority, what would that say about the "current" game? If so many people abhor the idea of a "classic" option, then quite simply, why would they leave what they currently have in order to play it? They wouldn't... although you might get some who spit their dummy out as a matter of principal, of course.

So, "astro-turf" all you like. It makes no difference to those of us who support a "classic" option. It makes no difference to current players and more importantly, it makes no difference to the producers of UO. They're looking farther afield than just what nonsense is thrown around on these forums.

 

[Morgana LeFay (PoV)]

How exactly is it a challenge? You die, you lose your stuff, you start over. Thats not a challenge at all.

Yes it is a challenge. The challenge was in deciding what you could risk vs. what you owned.

It's certainly more of a challenge than exists in the game now. Here is a look at the typical players day in UO today:

- Went to Destard with 2 friends. No one else around. Killed Greater Dragons for about 20 min. Died twice. Didn't care because my friend rezed me and insurance absorbed all the cost thanks to the 6,789,342,098,843,288 gold I have in bank.

- Got bored there, went to a Champ Spawn in Ilsh. Died once. Didn't care. My friend rezed me and insurance absorbed the cost thanks to the 6,789,342,098,841,988 gold in my bank.

- Wow, if that happened to me again about 200,000,000 times, I might actually begin to see some impact from dying.

- Found some uber-rare artifact at the champ spawn. I put on my vendor in Luna for 100,000,000 gold. Now I REALLY don't care that I died 3 times.


Compare that to the old days:

- Went to Destard with my guild. We got there, and no one seemed to be around. I died pretty quickly to a dragon, which sucks because I had my sword of might on my corpse. My friend rezed me, but as soon as he did, a red guild showed up and killed us all. So much for my sword of might...

- Went back to the bank in Trinsic...on foot. The place was really busy. I opened my bank, and I only have about 19,000 gold in there. I need to go reg shopping.

- Restocked my regs. I have about 14,000 gold left, I need to find a new sword.

- Found a guy in Brit selling a sword of might for 10,000 gold. I bought it. Better be careful, there are thieves everywhere.

- Some guy stole my sword! The guards whacked him, but some a-hole grabbed my sword and ran off!!

- Now I am down to 4,000 gold. I need to go hunting.


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Which sounds more challenging to you? Which sounds more entertaining?

It's like the difference between watching an action movie and a documentary on trees native to northern France if you ask me. Having to actually worry about what you did, where you went, and what (and who) you took with you based on whether or not you could afford to lose it added an element of danger, mystery, and challenge to the game.

 

[Que]

Hey all. Just killing time between resizing servers and for some ungodly reason I decided to check Stratics: UO. Was in the closed beta, open beta and lost mmmmmm 3 years of my life to UO back in the 90's (no regrets - was a glorious time). Reactivated my account sometime around 2002 and played for a few more weeks. Did NOT realize it was still around!

Since my UO days I've played the usual: EQ, AC, DAoC, some Conan game, some Tolken game, WoW, some game where you have wings - really drawing a blank. AO, EVE, SWO - you name it.

Hands down - nothing beats UO in the first two or three years, even with the bone crushing lag or the time the spawn died for two weeks. Remember the insta-kill metal armor bug? Sure, there's a ton to be said for your first MMORPG and all but UO was just so.... harsh? I remember back when keys would stay on your body getting lag/gazer killed near my house in Yew and finding it looted the next day. I remember the fear of running for my life from Dread Lord Long Duck Dong or some other PK because I had my vanquishing sword on me or a ton of mandrake back when regs were hard to find. Damn those were good times. I know - sounds odd. I'm sure it would **** me off nowadays where my free time is *ahem* not my own.

Not sure what this whole classic shard thing is about. Also, don't take this as a alt post hyping whatever that is - I simply don't have time to play these days so even if they gave me exactly what I wanted I wouldn't sign back up.

Just wanted to throw out another note about how cool the experience was back then. Also wanted to give a big shout out to all you guys still playing UO. Sounds like it has changed quite a bit over the years but still nice to know people are running through the forests of Yew.

Que

 

[Morgana LeFay (PoV)]

The only time you'll find anyone running through Yew forest these days is when you come across a bot scripting lumberjacking.

 

[Lord Chaos]

Which sounds more challenging to you? Which sounds more entertaining?

It's like the difference between watching an action movie and a documentary on trees native to northern France if you ask me. Having to actually worry about what you did, where you went, and what (and who) you took with you based on whether or not you could afford to lose it added an element of danger, mystery, and challenge to the game.

I would be able to take your more serious if you weren't so delusional about how gameplay works today in UO.

The specific scenario specified you lost everything, as the person would guard your body. So it would just be a matter of picking another GM suit and go off again, no attempt at actually getting your body or working to get it back.

I have had more fun and challenge in todays UO than I ever had back in the 90s UO. Despite the newness of it all back then. It sounds like you guys love the idea of the old UO because you measure yourself in the misery of others, this is compounded by the fact that none of you want to play the old fashion without insurance and blessed items.

 

[Lord Chaos]

The only time you'll find anyone running through Yew forest these days is when you come across a bot scripting lumberjacking.

Was running through Yew forest just a week ago...do you even play?