[Discussion] Protect Yourself -- Helpful Hints and Known Scams

[ohmyGED]

Since I do not see this information documented as a sticky on this forum, please use this as a way to keep yourself protected when buying or selling rares (or any items for that matter):


1. Do not buy/sell/trade any items of value in Felluca:

Period. There is no reason or excuse why you should have to do a trade of any sort in Felluca. If the buyer/seller asks you to do a trade in Felluca for any reason, decline the transaction unless they are able to do the trade in Trammel Ruleset.

2. For any items UNDER 100 Million Gold, use a vendor.

An effective way to ensure that both parties will recieve the item/gold. Much easier then counting individual checks --- you may either miss some checks, or there could be some 100,000 checks as opposed to 1,000,000.

3. For any items OVER 100 Million Gold, use a REPUTABLE broker.

This forum is a great place to ask about specific brokers or finding a reputable broker. DVI, SupSoc, Manticore and Mr Nice have earned a great reputation and respect around here and can be trusted. Make sure that both parties involved agree mutually on a reputable broker. Do not use someone that you are not familiar with, as it is more than likely a faux broker.

4. Be careful about your guild allignment or joining a guild prior to a trade.

Popular among Trammel thieves; they will try to persuade you into joining a guild, or become and ally of a guild, thus making you an available target for thievary (using the skill) or murder. No matter how persusaive, there is no need under any circumstances to join a guild/ally a guild prior to a trade. Do it afterwards.

5. Know what you are buying or selling.

Make sure you know about the items you are dealing with, and if you don't have an understanding of the value or quantity, I'm sure someone on this form can assist.

_____________


Known Scams:


1. Etheral Clothing: Yes, they look impressive when you want to buy them, but when you put this "etheral cloak" on after buying it from a vendor or a player that looks like a jet black cloak, and it is IN FACT a jet black cloak when you put it on, it leaves a bitter taste in your mouth.

For those who do not know: Etheral Clothing appears to be etheral hued when equipped, but will appear as jet black on your paperdoll and in your backpack.

Prevention: Most people are unaware, but if a person is wearing something on the paper doll (such as an etheral cloak) and you prompt a secure trade, items can be moved directly from the paper doll to the secure trade. There is NO WAY you can remove it from your paper doll and into another container. If the person wishes to use a secure trade, make sure he is wearing the etheral cloak, prompt a secure trade while it is still on, and watch his character and paperdoll when he removes the clothing and puts the items into the trade window.

For those that use vendors, as long as the item is on the vendor character as opposed to in the backpack, there should be no worries. NEVER buy what is claimed to be "etheral clothing" that is just dyed jet black off of a vendor unless it is being warn.


2. Personal Bless Deeds Items: This can be avoided if you stay out of Felluca, but there can always be pesky guilded thieves that will attempt to deploy this tactic. It is a form of persuasion that will require you to take your Personal Bless Deed (PBD) item off of something (which requires you to move to your backpack) creating the opportunity to steal the item, or kill you quickly.

Prevention: Go to a safe location where you are secluded if you need to remove a PBD from an item so you can insure it immediately.

3. Vendor Scams: More commonly used in Felluca, but it is a known fact that items need to be uninsured when putting them on a vendor. Be wary of any scenario, whether Felluca or Trammel ruleset, when putting any item on a vendor.

Prevention: Do not do any trades in Felluca ruleset. If in Trammel, use a form of hiding, invisibility (spell or potion). You cannot be revealed.

4. "I wish to release this" House Stealthers: Stealthers that will wait inside a house, hoping that you will unlock an item so they can immediately pick them up off the ground. This will come from people that will see valuable items within your house and then try to mark a rune, or run off screen quick to do so, with the intent of coming back on a stealth character; waiting for you to unlock and item for pick up.

Prevention: Detect Hidden will always show anyone hiding within a house. Use it before you unlock ANYTHING just as a precaution.


These are the most common scams out there to date. This could be a good place to also make note of other scams out there to make sure the community is aware of them if they come across these scenarios.

 

[A Stoned Mariner]

Haha is this a joke? Didn't you just kill that guy and steal back that suit you sold him for 300mils?

Nothing wrong legally/TOS wise with looting some fool in Felluca for falling for your trap. But I don't know if trying to act like some sort of moral/ethical stratics rares board member excuses you judgment wise for employing such nefarious actions.

I guess you feel if you tell people how you are going to stab them in the back, and they still decide to walk backwards into the knife you are an honest person.

A Stoned Mariner

 

[ohmyGED]

I actually discussed this with Petra Fyde and Assia a couple of weeks ago. Also, we were told not to discuss what happened in that locked thread.

Regarldess of my personal reputation and the tactics I chose to deploy, my theory is this: I don't want to hear anyone complaining anymore about what I do, because you have all been warned.

Haha is this a joke? Didn't you just kill that guy and steal back that suit you sold him for 300mils?

Nothing wrong legally/TOS wise with looting some fool in Felluca for falling for your trap. But I don't know if trying to act like some sort of moral/ethical stratics rares board member excuses you judgment wise for employing such nefarious actions.

A Stoned Mariner

 

[dennislcf]

SO FUNNY

 

[ohmyGED]

I guess you feel if you tell people how you are going to stab them in the back, and they still decide to walk backwards into the knife you are an honest person.

I play the role as a villian in an MMORPG --- that is my choice. Does it mean that I do this stuff in real life? You can make that argument yourself, I know the truth and that is all that truly matters.

I'm a self-proclaimed thief, and people know this. There are countless threads in the PvP Thief forum on the type of damage that I have done. Yet, people still choose to deal with me, but are smart about it.

I'm providing an opportunity for people that may be unaware of these, so called "nefarious actions" as referred by you. But, if people chose not to abide by them, that is there perogative. Just because a buyer/seller is niave with a situation doesn't make the person deploying them completely guilty.

 

[luulaalaa]

This guy planed to trade a rare + 100m for my 2 story marble statue.

here is the story:

he said he will pack up 100m of gold in couple bags and spread out the checks. It sound safe cause it's less than 125 items, and we agreed to do it in Luna.

But just right before the trade, he suddenly asked whether he can inspect the statue to make sure if it's talking. So I brought him to my house to check out the locked down statue. Everyone should know what he wsa planning to do at this point. Someone should be hiding and try to get the stuff once I released the item.

Luckily, I get warned after I read the thread about he killed the guy who bought his armor. I turn my house to private before releasing the statue, and this guy just turn "offline" in icq immediately because his plan was not working.

So I really sugguest everyyone to turn their house to private or use detect hidden when lock down or release rares. (guess most of the ppl did that already)

Good luck everyone and AVOID ppl with bad reputation cause they're just finding a way to scam you somehow.

 

[BlissMarie]

...my personal reputation and the tactics I chose to deploy...

Why do you do what you do? I don't understand that kind of mentality. How can taking advantage of other humans bring you any kind of pleasure? Then you want to repeat such things and hurt additional people? Is that part of the reward to you, seeing someone else distressed? Does that bring you enjoyment or is it simply the monetary gain?

Maybe you feel as if you are doing a public service of some sort by teaching people in the game what to watch out for?

I realize UO is "only a game" but ... do you get similar kicks in non-game environments? Would you treat someone you know like that? Would you do it to a friend? Is it that the feelings of your friends and loved ones matter, but no one else's matter?

Perhaps this post comes across as my railing at you. I'm not sure how it will be interpreted. That is not the tone in which it is written and scolding you is not my intent. Not in this post, anyway. =) My questions are sincere. I would really like to understand how someone can get pleasure out of such activities. I am assuming there is pleasure in it, because the behaviors are repeated.

I always seem to have lots of questions. This is just the tip of my iceberg of curiosity, but I will refrain from asking more.

BlissMarie

Note:
I was composing this message while you posted #5, above. I didn't take anything you said in that post into consideration when I was writing, because I had not seen what you wrote.

 

[Taylor]

This is good advice. The dissemination of this material will help prevent scamming. For the sake of scam prevention, I would ask that you folks avoid getting this thread locked/buried before it has time to reach a wide audience.

 

[ohmyGED]

Since you ask politely, I don't mind answering:

I don't look at this as "taking advantage of other humans" --- I look at Ultima Online as what it is: a game. I created an alter-ego that allows me to do things that I cannot do in modern society. As I stated previously, just because I play the role of a villian, doesn't mean I am in fact one in real life. (people can debate this however they choose)

I have one of my bachelor's degrees in Psychology, and when I think of myself, and this situation, I look at Freud and the concept of Id, Ego and Superego. For those that do not know, it is rather simple:

Id: Chaotic part of the personality structure that contains the basic human impulses
Ego: Common Sense and balance (between reality and human impulses)
Superego: Structured personality, or your conscience.

When I play here, I play with my impulses (Id) and leave my conscience (Superego/Ego) at the door. I think anyone would be lying if they said that have not had an un-natural thought (killing someone, stealing, anything sinful) in real life....so if you had the chance to experience both sides of the court, why not? Remember, this is a game for fun and entertainment, you choose how you want to play it. If you take it too seriously, maybe you should take your interest elsewhere if it makes that much of an emotional impact.


I don't need to get deep into my personal life....but I have a great family, happy gilrfriend and great friends. I enjoy my job and i'm good at it, and have a pretty optimistic and happy outlook. Ultimately, I am actually a pretty giving person in reality...so maybe I play UO in a very selfish manner....just to balance things out a bit.

And i'll be honest, I wouldn't say I really get pleasure from it. I just don't think about the person at the other end of the computer. I can't stress this enough...it's just a game.

Why do you do what you do? I don't understand that kind of mentality. How can taking advantage of other humans bring you any kind of pleasure? Then you want to repeat such things and hurt additional people? Is that part of the reward to you, seeing someone else distressed? Does that bring you enjoyment or is it simply the monetary gain?

Maybe you feel as if you are doing a public service of some sort by teaching people in the game what to watch out for?

I realize UO is "only a game" but ... do you get similar kicks in non-game environments? Would you treat someone you know like that? Would you do it to a friend? Is it that the feelings of your friends and loved ones matter, but no one else's matter?

Perhaps this post comes across as my railing at you. I'm not sure how it will be interpreted. That is not the tone in which it is written and scolding you is not my intent. Not in this post, anyway. =) My questions are sincere. I would really like to understand how someone can get pleasure out of such activities. I am assuming there is pleasure in it, because the behaviors are repeated.

I always seem to have lots of questions. This is just the tip of my iceberg of curiosity, but I will refrain from asking more.

BlissMarie

 

[ohmyGED]

This is good advice. The dissemination of this material will help prevent scamming. For the sake of scam prevention, I would ask that you folks avoid getting this thread locked/buried before it has time to reach a wide audience.

I sent a message to both Assia and Petra....I'm sure they'll clean it up and hopefully sticky it.

 

[Restroom Cowboy]

Well, it is one thing to act like a community member and quite another to be one. Trying to get brownie points this late in the game is not a good thing.

Second, I point others out to this thread.

http://vboards.stratics.com/showthread.php?t=219174

On the surface it may seem polite and sincere, but is it really? Many unscrupulous people gain information IRL simply by getting unknowing individuals to let their guard down. In this type of situation the wrong information may lead to stolen accounts...should those people be to blame for not being too careful?

Third, I point you to this thread.

http://vboards.stratics.com/showthread.php?t=217901

Again, seems innocent enough...but why do you think it was posted? Do you think other motives might be involved other than just *casual friendly discussion*?

A word to the wise, if it seems to good to be true...it probably is. That goes for in game or even here on the forums.

 

[A Stoned Mariner]

I was pretty careful to make sure in my reply that while what you're doing isn't cool. I by no means am calling you some sort of illegal/cheat or anything.

You are playing the villain. You are entitled to do so.

What I don't understand is if you are a villain. If you are out to take advantage of people. Why are you trying to make sure that the rares forum mods remove any/all mention of what you do/who you really are in game?

Why is it not acceptable to warn people? It is one thing to make wild claims, unfounded accusations. The mods should not allow that. But you are a self-proclaimed, proud scammer.

This question is more for the mods than you.......if someone is an open scammer. Employing lawful, but dishonest tactics, why can't they be labeled as such???

What is wrong with that? You are RP'ing a villain. Why can't other people RP protectors of the innocent? How is it fair for you to scam with impunity but people can't call you out for it???

I realize this isnt a for sale/buying rares post. But to the mods...let a valid discussion about this board/the rares trade in general exist here. Why not???

 

[A Stoned Mariner]

I personally don't mind people using legal tactics to deceive others. I would never do it. I don't condone it. But it is what it is. If you take advantage of someones stupidity, oh well. It's a crying shame, but that's the game. (it is a game, we all know this).

But again...who are you to cry and moan when people call you out. How real is it that you roleplay a villain who unlike a villain in the real world, is not allowed to be held accountable?

 

[Taylor]

Intentions aside, it's still valid advice about actual scams.

 

[ohmyGED]

All in the eye of the beholder. People can speculate as they choose.

Well, it is one thing to act like a community member and quite another to be one. Trying to get brownie points this late in the game is not a good thing.

Second, I point others out to this thread.

http://vboards.stratics.com/showthread.php?t=219174

On the surface it may seem polite and sincere, but is it really? Many unscrupulous people gain information IRL simply by getting unknowing individuals to let their guard down. In this type of situation the wrong information may lead to stolen accounts...should those people be to blame for not being too careful?

Third, I point you to this thread.

http://vboards.stratics.com/showthread.php?t=217901

Again, seems innocent enough...but why do you think it was posted? Do you think other motives might be involved other than just *casual friendly discussion*?

A word to the wise, if it seems to good to be true...it probably is. That goes for in game or even here on the forums.

 

[A Stoned Mariner]

Syrus if you think him posting this information is anything other than his way of saying "look I tell these people I am gonna rob them and how to avoid it, and I still manage to rob some anyways...how pathetic are they"....then you must be smoking some of A Stoned Mariners finest crop.

 

[Tangled Metal]

Having been a victim to some of these tactics in my past I have to go with the PT Barnum theory that if you are dumb enough to get taken advantage of you deserve it! This is meant as in I was dumb enough to be taken advantage of and I deserved it. The last one was actually not horrible. I lost a mere 13 Million and learned a valuable lesson!

 

[ohmyGED]

You do make a valid point. When creating the discussion (I'm assuming the one on "Most coveted rares") I just wanted to keep it on topic and to the relative point. I didn't want the thread to get clogged about people bashing me....because it was a good discussion with multiple people in the community. When people started discussing something different, the topic goes off on a tangent....and it starts to loose relevance. I wouldn't have cared if it was in a seperate thread...and by all means, people can go right ahead.


And speaking of this finest crop....



And to your point about the warning --- it is sincere...and i'm not (typically) decietful about it. I rarely, if ever, comment on what I've done to hurt someone after the fact. But I can't say that I never do it.

Honestly, on MANY occassions, the person I have stolen fron (depending on circumstances) has actually respected, learned and be-friended me....

Sometimes people learn the hard way....at least i'm provided some guidelines of things to watch out for...

I personally don't mind people using legal tactics to deceive others. I would never do it. I don't condone it. But it is what it is. If you take advantage of someones stupidity, oh well. It's a crying shame, but that's the game. (it is a game, we all know this).

But again...who are you to cry and moan when people call you out. How real is it that you roleplay a villain who unlike a villain in the real world, is not allowed to be held accountable?

 

[ohmyGED]

Having been a victim to some of these tactics in my past I have to go with the PT Barnum theory that if you are dumb enough to get taken advantage of you deserve it! This is meant as in I was dumb enough to be taken advantage of and I deserved it. The last one was actually not horrible. I lost a mere 13 Million and learned a valuable lesson!

And you still, kind of, like me.

 

[Taylor]

Syrus if you think him posting this information is anything other than his way of saying "look I tell these people I am gonna rob them and how to avoid it, and I still manage to rob some anyways...how pathetic are they"....then you must be smoking some of A Stoned Mariners finest crop.

In game, Oblivion (the OP) is my #1 greatest enemy. He purchased his account from a guild mate, unbeknownst to us, and used said guild mate’s position of trust to execute a PKing/thieving binge. Although he was discovered and booted within a few days, his actions caused the leadership endless grief – lots of drama, finger-pointing, lamenting about lost items, anger at the leadership for letting in a thief, members leaving, etc.

I am more familiar with him than you might think. I know most of his accomplices, most of his alternate characters, and all of his favorite hang outs. We carefully study all successful thieves on Atlantic to prevent intrusions, insofar as this is possible.

Nevertheless, the advice above will help to protect some players against common scams. I am no defender of Oblivion, but the principles espoused herein, while not comprehensive, are sound.

 

[A Stoned Mariner]

You can sit there and say you made a sincere thread, or discussion topic thread. And I'll honestly take your word for it.

But how do you expect a close knit rares community to act when a self-proclaimed scammer/villian decides to flip the switch and act all buddy buddy with the community he exploits and takes advantage of.

You have every right in the game to do what you do, that is clear as crystal. But if you don't understand the ramifications of your actions and how people will treat you as a result...are you serious?

People not liking you/turning you into an outcast is a product of your own design. It goes hand in hand with playing the villian.

Very unRP'er of you and kind of outright peculiar that you expect any kind of hospitality from the board members.

 

[ohmyGED]

In game, Oblivion (the OP) is my #1 greatest enemy....

I feel like you may be in line with many others...

I am more familiar with him than you might think. I know most of his accomplices, most of his alternate characters, and all of his favorite hang outs. We carefully study all successful thieves on Atlantic to prevent intrusions, insofar as this is possible.

You have been stalking me?!?!?!?

Nevertheless, the advice above will help to protect some players against common scams. I am no defender of Oblivion, but the principles espoused herein, while not comprehensive, are sound.

Hopefully it does help, it does get stickied...I recommend sharing it with UWF.

 

[Tangled Metal]

How could I not like you! You are one of the few players I know who is always up front and honest about the scoundrel that you are!

 

[A Stoned Mariner]

P.S to the Mods....Don't kill this thread so long as it stays civil (which it has been)....

Nothing wrong with healthy discussion directly pertinent to the rares community and active members here on the boards...I hope.

A Stoned Mariner

 

[DVI]

We are all welcome to our opinions of the other members of this community, but lets all remember to take what is important from what occured.

When dealing in rares, always always do your homework...on the item, on the person, etc and ensure you protect yourself accordingly.

 

[ohmyGED]

I'm not acting "buddy, buddy" --- it was something that I discussed with the moderators, suggesting that they should have something like this to help people when it comes to buying/selling/trading rares.

Who said I don't understand the ramifications of my actions? It doesn't bother if people choose to like me or not....that is their personal decision.

Hospitality? If you are referring to the discussion thread, then maybe you are right. Point taken. I feel that it is (personal opinion) harmless to have a discussion about something and keep it on topic with the original discussion. As I said previously, I just wanted to keep it on track, and if people want to talk about me and post a warning somewhere else that is in the ToS...then so be it.

You can sit there and say you made a sincere thread, or discussion topic thread. And I'll honestly take your word for it.

But how do you expect a close knit rares community to act when a self-proclaimed scammer/villian decides to flip the switch and act all buddy buddy with the community he exploits and takes advantage of.

You have every right in the game to do what you do, that is clear as crystal. But if you don't understand the ramifications of your actions and how people will treat you as a result...are you serious?

People not liking you/turning you into an outcast is a product of your own design. It goes hand in hand with playing the villian.

Very unRP'er of you and kind of outright peculiar that you expect any kind of hospitality from the board members.

 

[A Stoned Mariner]

Just so long as you realized that as much as you'd like to play the villain one minute and the casual contributing rares forum guy the next, it's not realistic to expect that.

You defined yourself. You could post the most genuine concern post in the world. It's like a any other "criminal" (granted you are an in game criminal) in the world, nobody is going to trust you after they realize who/what you are.

A Stoned Mariner

 

[ohmyGED]

Maybe I'm not trying to be the casual contributing rare forum guy. I'm the villian, remember?



Good talk, I'll see you out in Britannia.

Just so long as you realized that as much as you'd like to play the villain one minute and the casual contributing rares forum guy the next, it's not realistic to expect that.

You defined yourself. You could post the most genuine concern post in the world. It's like a any other "criminal" (granted you are an in game criminal) in the world, nobody is going to trust you after they realize who/what you are.

A Stoned Mariner