Faction Sigil Timers: 4-6 hours

[CatLord]

Dear developers...

Please change the time we need to defend the sigils to four-six hours.

Ten hours is a bit insane.

Thank you.

(if you agree sign under, thank you)

Paulo Mendonça
(REALID#0000001)

 

[Widow Maker]

10 hours is f-tarded. Should be no more than 4-6 hours.

 

[dyrk]

agreed, i like 5 or 6, it would present more of a challenge and more faction interaction

Nathan Filegar
(REALID#0000002)

 

[GalenKnighthawke]

I am sure that Sigil timing will be addressed in the Faction changes being formulated.

The big problem with any Faction change is how to balance the needs of old-time Faction players (who are a dedicated group that deserve our respect and deserve a certain amount of being catered to) with newer Factions and potential new Factioners.

I thought Faction Artifacts would be a good idea. I was wrong.

All it really did was bring in non-Faction PvPers who joined Factions for the Artifacts and consumables, and used point exploits to get enough points to get the high-end items, and participated in Factions as little as PvP Pride would allow.

I had not anticipated point exploits. I thought, wrongly, that Faction Artifacts could be designed in such a way as to promote participation in Factions, not just joining it.

I also hadn't realized how over-powering the items would really be.

I mention Faction Artifacts for the following reasons: I've also long-supported lowering the sigil timer.

I still do.

But, are we wrong?

We could easily be.

I also liked, in theory, changes similar to the current set of Faction changes, but guess what? The changes have been greeted with an almost uniform negativity, both from old-time Factioners and the new PvP-oriented crowd, despite the fact that the changes were clearly oriented towards the latter group.

So it would seem I was wrong on that score too.

Factions are particularly susceptible to the unintended consequences problem. There are no easy answers. Hell, I'm not so sure there are answers at all, easy or not.

*sighs*

-Galen's player

 

[Bill Gates OSD]

Dear developers...

Please change the time we need to defend the sigils to four-six hours.

Ten hours is a bit insane.

Thank you.

(if you agree sign under, thank you)

Paulo Mendonça
(REALID#0000001)

D I S A G R E E ! ! !

For crying out loud, back in the day we guarded them for 24 hours straight! Ten hours is nothing.

 

[funkymonkey]

But back then you had twice the numbers of people playing UO if not more, so taking into account of the numbers that play it now, it would make more sense!

Imo.

 

[Widow Maker]

That was when there were hundreds of folks in factions on every shard. That is not the case anymore.

Wake up..look at things through a clear mind.

 

[CatLord]

For the record, we just defended the sigils for 10 hours... and got all towns.

So this post is based on experience... from sigil fighting on several shards.

I am curious to what the faction sigil fighters of atlantic think...


Mr Bill Gates, have you defended the sigils lately? what shard? How many on each side?


Thank you.


(when we fought the FoA, I played for some days straight... it was rumour that the shard would be destroyed if we would lose... I dont see any of the current factions being such a threat...)

Paulo Mendonça
(REALID#0000001)

 

[Maximus Neximus]

Disagree, keep the 10 hours.

People generally work for 8 hours a day and sleep for 6-8 hours. If sigils only take 4-6 hours to corrupt, you take away that part of the game from a lot of people.

 

[CatLord]

I've also long-supported lowering the sigil timer.

I still do.

But, are we wrong?

We could easily be.

I also liked, in theory, changes similar to the current set of Faction changes, but guess what? The changes have been greeted with an almost uniform negativity, both from old-time Factioners and the new PvP-oriented crowd, despite the fact that the changes were clearly oriented towards the latter group.
-Galen's player

Hello Mr Galen's player... we already had the timer tested with less time...

http://www.uoherald.com/news/news.php?newsid=446

No one complained, the only complains came after it went back to the old timer...
(I checked stratics for that time interval...)

So it was already tested, not in theory, but in the field... with no dire consequences.

Sincerely,
Paulo Mendonça
(REALID#0000001)

 

[CatLord]

Disagree, keep the 10 hours.

People generally work for 8 hours a day and sleep for 6-8 hours. If sigils only take 4-6 hours to corrupt, you take away that part of the game from a lot of people.

Greetings,

You are pointing out that if people take the sigils during the day when people are working, or during the night when people are sleeping... that would give them the edge?

And by keeping the 10 hours... you point out that people are rotating both defense and offense?

Very good point, Sir.


Paulo Mendonça
(REALID#0000001)

 

[Bill Gates OSD]

That was when there were hundreds of folks in factions on every shard. That is not the case anymore.

Wake up..look at things through a clear mind.

There were not hundreds of folks in factions on Atlantic between 5 and 7 years ago at any given time. There might have been 50 or 75 per faction but not in all 4 factions at once. A good many of those were spies, ghostcam accounts and factions crafters. All of the battles on Atlantic were between EB2, K$B, H0T and a bunch of other guilds that I can't remember. I was in EB2 the entire time and went to whichever faction they were in at the time.

In my opinion ten hours is good. It takes a serious commitment but isn't overly taxing. I'm not singling anyone out but, a good bit of what I see is the same, "GIVE ME EVERYTHING AND DO IT RIGHT F'ING NOW WITH NO EFFORT ON MY PART" mentality that has permeated UO in recent years.

Sure, some of the changes had to come due to low participation but for Christ's sake, you guys have factions artifacts now, runic hammers/bowyer kits, tailor kits & carpentry kits are in abundance. Back when I was playing it took a monumental effort as well as some real, out-of-pocket $$ to get the really nice stuff.

A great many factions players are only in it now for the factions artifacts that, in my opinion, should N O T work at all in Trammel or any Trammel ruleset area or for the factions mounts so they can look cool camping the Luna gate for 20 hours/day.

Flame away.

 

[CatLord]

Respectfull reminder that the topic is the sigil timer.

Anyone is welcomed to start a thread and flame those that use faction items/mounts and dont pvp... (exposing the true fact that pvpers dont control all of the faction system)

Thank you

Paulo Mendonça
(REALID#0000001)

 

[Bill Gates OSD]

For the record, we just defended the sigils for 10 hours... and got all towns.

So this post is based on experience... from sigil fighting on several shards.

I am curious to what the faction sigil fighters of atlantic think...


Mr Bill Gates, have you defended the sigils lately? what shard? How many on each side?


Thank you.


(when we fought the FoA, I played for some days straight... it was rumour that the shard would be destroyed if we would lose... I dont see any of the current factions being such a threat...)

Paulo Mendonça
(REALID#0000001)

I haven't defended the sigils in years Paulo. Want to know why? Because PvP, in general, is pointless unless one is using the latest and greatest speedhack/cheat/client hack and/or the latest and greatest template and that changes with every patch. I tried to PvP again when I came back after a 4 year absence and in spite of my generally great connection/ping times, I couldn't hope to catch a damn soul in Felucca near the Yew gate. I'll stick to PvM and guild wars, thanks.

 

[Bill Gates OSD]

Respectfull reminder that the topic is the sigil timer.

Anyone is welcomed to start a thread and flame those that use faction items/mounts and dont pvp... (exposing the true fact that pvpers dont control all of the faction system)

Thank you

Paulo Mendonça
(REALID#0000001)

I was giving a thorough answer to a question, not a flame.

 

[CatLord]

I haven't defended the sigils in years Paulo. Want to know why? Because PvP, in general, is pointless unless one is using the latest and greatest speedhack/cheat/client hack and/or the latest and greatest template and that changes with every patch. I tried to PvP again when I came back after a 4 year absence and in spite of my generally great connection/ping times, I couldn't hope to catch a damn soul in Felucca near the Yew gate. I'll stick to PvM and guild wars, thanks.

I agree with you... rather pointless.
I saw the commander of the enemy faction run over our bagballs. He must have a long legged WarHorse.

The only way to beat the cheaters is... team work, numbers, good tactics and stubburness... and we have all of the above.

Not every pvper cheats... but you are once again correct... many do.

I truly hope the third party war that we will see begin... hopefully shortly... will even the field.


I was not pointing the finger at you about flaming... just trying to keep it on the topic. It is easy to see a discussion about a particular angle of the game, explode to a huge fight... so the less topics, the less chances of getting the thread locked. (this one I have alot of experience...)

Thank you for contributing to the discussion. Your experience is most valued.

Sincerely,
Paulo Mendonça
(REALID#0000001)

 

[Widow Maker]

The base point is that there are not as many faction folks playing as there used to be. You used to be able to set up groups to guard for 24 hours (My friends and I did this as well). You simply can not do this anymore, with the decreased numbers. It is an extreme burden on the general player base (as it currently stands) to guard the sigils for 10 straight hours. Most Faction groups (that actually PvP) now are made up of a much smaller group of people, not able to dedicate a 10 hour commitment on any given day. This was and is one of the major causes for 1 faction group, usually the much larger one on any given shard, to control towns for years at a time. One simply does not have the time to make a change. This creates a stagnant environment on most shards. A stagnant environment in an MMO is the worst thing you can allow to happen.

This is why, when the timer was reduced to 4 hours, there was so much more faction play on the shards I play. The decreased time commitment made actually playing this part of the faction system more "player friendly". Towns changed hands, as they should, and much fun was had by all.

It would be beneficial for the powers that be to continue this track.

 

[Sergul'zan_SP]

D I S A G R E E ! ! !

For crying out loud, back in the day we guarded them for 24 hours straight! Ten hours is nothing.

Yeah. Either it should be 18, or they should make it so the towns are only safe for 1 day and keep the 10 hours.

Then again, people running around with 1284828338438247230587237 seems to me a bigger problem.

Then there's also the fact that there aren't enough serious factioneers to support the faction system as designed.

 

[kelmo]

I am sure that Sigil timing will be addressed in the Faction changes being formulated.

The big problem with any Faction change is how to balance the needs of old-time Faction players (who are a dedicated group that deserve our respect and deserve a certain amount of being catered to) with newer Factions and potential new Factioners.

I thought Faction Artifacts would be a good idea. I was wrong.

All it really did was bring in non-Faction PvPers who joined Factions for the Artifacts and consumables, and used point exploits to get enough points to get the high-end items, and participated in Factions as little as PvP Pride would allow.

I had not anticipated point exploits. I thought, wrongly, that Faction Artifacts could be designed in such a way as to promote participation in Factions, not just joining it.

I also hadn't realized how over-powering the items would really be.

I mention Faction Artifacts for the following reasons: I've also long-supported lowering the sigil timer.

I still do.

But, are we wrong?

We could easily be.

I also liked, in theory, changes similar to the current set of Faction changes, but guess what? The changes have been greeted with an almost uniform negativity, both from old-time Factioners and the new PvP-oriented crowd, despite the fact that the changes were clearly oriented towards the latter group.

So it would seem I was wrong on that score too.

Factions are particularly susceptible to the unintended consequences problem. There are no easy answers. Hell, I'm not so sure there are answers at all, easy or not.

*sighs*

-Galen's player

Spot on.

 

[GalenKnighthawke]

Hello Mr Galen's player... we already had the timer tested with less time...

http://www.uoherald.com/news/news.php?newsid=446

No one complained, the only complains came after it went back to the old timer...
(I checked stratics for that time interval...)

So it was already tested, not in theory, but in the field... with no dire consequences.

Sincerely,
Paulo Mendonça
(REALID#0000001)

That wasn't a test per se. It was a temporary change in conditions, done for a particular plotline. It was also coupled with other temporary changes. Factioners are at heart RolePlayers, and understood that conditions were changed temporarily as part of the storyoline.

Note, if you would, that I wasn't disagreeing with you per se that 10 hours is too long. I've argued something similar in the past. The 10-hour timer is incredibly off-putting to anyone who wishes to experience any other aspect of the game on a consistent basis.

Rather I'm saying that the unique, odd nature of Factions makes it more susceptible than other aspects of the game to unintended consequences and that any changes to it need to be undertaken only with particular care.

-Galen's player

 

[GalenKnighthawke]

Respectfull reminder that the topic is the sigil timer.

Anyone is welcomed to start a thread and flame those that use faction items/mounts and dont pvp... (exposing the true fact that pvpers dont control all of the faction system)

Thank you

Paulo Mendonça
(REALID#0000001)

In case it wasn't clear, if it was me you were talking about, I mentioned Faction Artifacts for one reason: To show how another change I supported, as I have similarly supported lowering the timer (and in the abstract continue to), did more harm than good.

If I was wrong before, perhaps I am wrong again. It's quite worrisome, because I normally like to think things through pretty thoroughly.

-Galen's player

 

[CatLord]

It's quite worrisome, because I normally like to think things through pretty thoroughly.
-Galen's player

I saw the effect of artefacts, just not discussing it here.
I don't think the majority of pvping/faction players would agree that faction warfare is rp at heart... maybe I am wrong. also not discussing it here...

Just one aspect... the timer.



I share your pain.
The variables in my head... they screech!


Economy Major
Maths Master
Statistics Master
Teacher since 1989.

(UO player since September 97 where I have a long term Social Project running since 98)

Every move is carefully planned.

I wonder how we can solve this one?


Sincerely,
Paulo Mendonça
(REALID#0000001)

 

[roninaxx]

I would support a 4 hour timer but with only 1 or 2 sigils at a time, not all at once if you are taking towns. to be honest that would be possibly a great battle inducement you want to defend the towns you hold 4 factions fighting over their held towns while the corrupters try to hold on to the sigils they've stolen 3 factions with 6 towns stolen while the zerg faction tries to recover them.(yes I play on alt). thats a battle in the making

 

[kelmo]

Factions is so screwed up at this point, I don't care what they do. At one point I had 4 of my 5 characters in factions. This was on Siege... i kept one account out just because it is a house holder. Long story... that account was meant to be temporary... Just testing the rumor that advanced character tokens sneaked into to Siege. They did for a while...

I digress... *chuckles*

It is hard to define role playing. Some of my happiest days in UO was playing my "role" in the faction gang I was in. I was not the fiercest warrior. I was not the best mage nor the best theif... In fact my mage earned the nick name 'wrong way' when it came to fields. *chuckles*

Now to my point. It does not matter what Bioware/Mythic (or what ever the name is these days...) The only point to factions is artifacts. Owning towns means next to nothing. Defending a base means next to nothing.

Set the timer to whatever...

 

[Sergul'zan_SP]

Now to my point. It does not matter what Bioware/Mythic (or what ever the name is these days...) The only point to factions is artifacts. Owning towns means next to nothing. Defending a base means next to nothing.

Set the timer to whatever...

This is the reality of modern factions. In an attempt to "update" the system they ruined it. The cores of the faction system are loyalty and balance, two things that no longer exist in UO let alone felucca or the faction system.

Devs: When you FIX something, please FIX it. Don't change it. Don't update it. Just FIX it. Then you can update it later on. What is with EA and the running history of fixing things by dumping high powered artifacts and easy achievement in?

 

[Busters]

i think faction timers should be shorter. But on the other note, what is the point in having a town now??? The only reason to get a town is to get a faction horse and that is about it. You use to want the towns to make faction gear back in the day, that was the main point, because the best weps and armor could be made in faction controlled towns. Now with imbuing, and even before that, it has become useless. I would like to see it back in place, that would make it a bit more interesting.

 

[JC the Builder]

To shorten the sigil corruption timer they would have to make them available only during certain times of the day. It is already a huge problem with people taking them late at night/early in morning and corrupting them when most people are sleeping/working. The 24 hour timer was perfect for the current system because you could recapture them no matter what time of day you play UO.

 

[CatLord]

Hello JC

Does this applies even to current faction numbers?

Thank you.
Paulo Mendonça

ps:
Sorry for keep posting links to uoguide... not!
Thank you for it.
Safe gaming!

 

[Capt.E]

From experience on my shard, the only days I can even get a sigil is on the weekend because the towns go available from around 10 pm to just before server down. If they were stealable only from a set time, like 6 pm local shard time, to around 10 or so everyday, I feel that would bring more people to the faction fight. Having a set time may bother some of the sigil hoarders who stay up all night to watch their sigils being corrupted with noone else on, but is this the true meaning of defending sigils?

 

[Sergul'zan_SP]

Disagree, keep the 10 hours.

People generally work for 8 hours a day and sleep for 6-8 hours. If sigils only take 4-6 hours to corrupt, you take away that part of the game from a lot of people.

People usually work 8-10 hours a day, have an hour or so of travel, and normally at least 2 to 3 hours of responsibility before and after they get home. This assuming they don't have kids.

Make it 18 hours!

 

[Suh Henry]

I support the change to 6 hours. But I dont think that you should be able to wear the faction items in trammel. We all know that the trammies are not fighting in fellucia. They are just wearing the items to help them play in trammel better. I also suggest an idea that if you control the towns completely (ALL 8 SIGILS) you can wear the faction gear. If your guild does not control the sigils then you are not allowed to wear the faction gear. In my opinion this would encourage more fighting because players would want to have the advantage of wearing the ubber gear over their enemies. Has anyone thought of that idea before? I dont think people want to have things given to them on a silver platter but the folks who PVP actually want to fight more. What would bring more fighting than a shorter time period to control the sigils and only the winner is able to wear faction gear.
PS-as for your complaint of people using speeder and healing scripts. In my opinion its the trammies who use more scripts and cheats than the PVP players. Who is it that is farming all the gold, scripting BOD's, gathering resources. YES its not the guys looking for a fight. It the players who keep the vendors stocked in Luna. So lets not go pointing a finger at your fighting skills for not playing in fellucia. An excuse is just that!!! They have a saying "If you dont like something, then STOP it"

Suh Henry

 

[Widow Maker]

I prefer my version of that saying:

If you don't like something...then KILL it!

 

[ReaperNI]

hu? hu? aww shot i fell asleep again guarding the sigils now there gone. i agree four to six hours is a good time. 10 hours is to long here are some reasons.

1)for those of us that work 8-5 people just wait till unguarded and reset times.

2)after about an hour people get bored and leave

3)10hrs and you only get the towns for three day i mean its not like you get to keep the towns for a month