Miasma/Labyrinth Question

[vinque]

I wanted to try my luck at miasma with my wannabe sampire. So I went to the labyrinth and all I keep fighting is minotaurs, or the really annoying reptalon. I have yet to find miasma. Does miasma spawn all the way at the end of the labyrinth? If so, do most fight there way thru? I have tried just running but then get paralyzed and surrounded by minotaurs, not good.

 

[Smoot]

yes, misama is in the west corner of labyrinth, but before you get to Rend. As for getting there, yeah fight when you have to, and run when you can. Its not overlly far, but if you get too much on you youll die.

 

[vinque]

Cool, thx, found miasma. Didn't do so well. I guess I need to increase skills/equipment a little more. I had her down to pretty low health but the poison ended up getting me. Atleast I know where I stand, still have some work to do.

 

[Obsidian]

Avoid the reptalons the best you can... and if you see Rend... well run until you get the hang of it.

-OBSIDIAN-

 

[[JD]]

does arachnid super slayer cover miasma, mephitis, scorpions, spiders, and terathan?

 

[Madrid]

Yes. However...

Arachnid will do double damage against Miasma whereas as Scorpion slayer will do more than Arachnid against Miasma (triple damage).

Ideally against Miasma you want a 100% Fire Elemental Damage Scorpion Slayer.

 

[Old Man of UO]

Get a Bovine slayer talisman for the minotaur, and a fast scorpion slayer with high mana/stamina leech (and with 100% fire if possible) for miasma. The bovine slayer makes the minotaur 3-5 hit kills, and 20-30 second kills for miasma.

And I carry a dragon slayer for the reptalon, with consecrate weapon and honor it's an easy kill. Rend... I use a disco-tamer for that one.

 

[[JD]]

Ok just to be clear, if I use an arachnid (super) slayer and have 100 DI, thats 300% DMG.

So I can have 1 weap with 300% dmg against many kinds of creatures, instead of half a dozen weaps?

 

[Old Man of UO]

Ok just to be clear, if I use an arachnid (super) slayer and have 100 DI, thats 300% DMG.

So I can have 1 weap with 300% dmg against many kinds of creatures, instead of half a dozen weaps?

There was a change not too long ago with slayers and damage. Super slayers now do 100% damage, regular slayers 200%. So 100 DI and arachnid slayer is 200% total DI.

 

[[JD]]

DOH. Thank you.

So if I used a super slayer and 100 DI, for 200% dmg, how would i make up that last 100%?

I could honor and perfection, but that is only good on a single target.

Enemy of one could be death in a multiple target situation and I'm trying to get away from needing it.

 

[Old Man of UO]

Best way is to carry slayers for whatever you expect to encounter. With imbuing it's really not that hard, and making regular slayers use less expensive ingredients.

OH... if you can find 100% elemental weapons to combine with the elemental weakness, it can make a huge difference in the damage.

 

[Garm The Green]

DOH. Thank you.

So if I used a super slayer and 100 DI, for 200% dmg, how would i make up that last 100%?

I could honor and perfection, but that is only good on a single target.

Enemy of one could be death in a multiple target situation and I'm trying to get away from needing it.

Ask stupid miner.

he seems to think as do others (lord GOD) that DI factors in outside of the 300%, just the same as anat and tact. Only spells/slayers/perfection seem to be included.
Perfection at 100% EoO is 50%, which leaves space for another 150%...

In his words "DI figures into the base damage in the same way tactics and anatomy and lumberjacking do">

http://vboards.stratics.com/showthread.php?p=1760742#post1760742 for the curious.

 

[Old Man of UO]

...
In his words "DI figures into the base damage in the same way tactics and anatomy and lumberjacking do">

http://vboards.stratics.com/showthread.php?p=1760742#post1760742 for the curious.

Just to add to this part of it:

Final Damage Bonus% = Tactics Bonus + Anatomy Bonus + Lumber Bonus + Strangth Bonus + Damage Increase Items*
Final Damage = Base Damage + (Base Damage * Final Damage Bonus%)

* Damage Increase (from items) is capped at 100%.

EoO, Slayers and Super Slayers, I believe are added AFTER the Final Damage Bonus is calculated, and capped at 50%/300% and 200%.

 

[Garm The Green]

Just to add to this part of it:

Final Damage Bonus% = Tactics Bonus + Anatomy Bonus + Lumber Bonus + Strangth Bonus + Damage Increase Items*
Final Damage = Base Damage + (Base Damage * Final Damage Bonus%)

* Damage Increase (from items) is capped at 100%.

EoO, Slayers and Super Slayers, I believe are added AFTER the Final Damage Bonus is calculated, and capped at 50%/300% and 200%.

Nice bit of info there, yum a tasty morsel of math!

 

[Old Man of UO]

Nice bit of info there, yum a tasty morsel of math!

The Developers have confirmed that this formula is correct. If so, that means that Miner is both right and wrong in his statements from the other thread... DI is added to the base damage, but it is still capped at 300%.

Not saying Miner is wrong, but I am wondering what he is seeing or doing to think that he is going above that 300%, and how far above the 300% he can go.

 

[Garm The Green]

DI is added to the base damage, but it is still capped at 300%.

I don't think so by the formula you gave...in so much as DI, EoO, slayers, perfection, evil omen etc do not all add to the 300%

300% stands, but it does not limit DI as it is a mutliplier of DI.

What i believed to be true previously is something like:
DI + EoO + slayers + perfection + evil omen=/< 300% (damagebonus)
and that final damage = damage bonus x (anat+tact+str+base dmg)

But what you and miner sem to suggest is:
EoO + slayers + perfection + evil omen=/< 300% (damagebonus)
and that final damage = damage bonus x (DI+anat+tact+str+base dmg)

I think we're all saying the same thing, in different ways! ie that 300% cap applies, but DI works outside of this as a multiplier, in the same way as anat/str etc.

This means we may have 300% increase from perfection/slayers/EoO, but adding DI will still increase your DPS output; previously i thought it would have been lost in the 300% cap?

what say you?

 

[Old Man of UO]

...

This means we may have 300% increase from perfection/slayers/EoO, but adding DI will still increase your DPS output; previously i thought it would have been lost in the 300% cap?

what say you?

It's always possible. The formula that I quoted is on Stratics, but originally came from the Developers.

In fact, much of the information on UOHerald (from the Developers) is just outright wrong and never fixed even when reported.

 

[Stupid Miner]

DI works outside of this as a multiplier, in the same way as anat/str etc.

This means we may have 300% increase from perfection/slayers/EoO, but adding DI will still increase your DPS output

Correct.

 

[Old Man of UO]

DI works outside of this as a multiplier, in the same way as anat/str etc.

This means we may have 300% increase from perfection/slayers/EoO, but adding DI will still increase your DPS output

Correct.

Are you saying that DI from items can go above 100%? If not, then where are you getting the extra DI?

 

[Old Man of UO]

Just tested and you can't go over 100% DI with items. So I don't know where Miner is getting is over-cap +300% damage increase from. If you are saying it's from discord or corpse skin, I can understand that but that isn't part of the damage increase formula.

I imbued two identical GM exceptional composite bows with 44% HSL, 33% HML, 25% SSI and Scorpion Slayer. One bow I imbued with 45% DI and the other with 7% DI. My archer has 93% DI from other items, giving a total DI of 100% or 138% depending on which bow I equipped.

I killed 20+ miasma with each, with and without consecrate weapon, with and without armor ignore, with and without lightning strike. All damage between the two bows was essentially identical, within +/- 1 damage point of the highs/lows and max critical hits.

So, you can't exceed the 300% DI from items. I'm asking where the over-cap +300% damage is coming from.

 

[Garm The Green]

5:0

 

[Yen Sid]

Just tested and you can't go over 100% DI with items. So I don't know where Miner is getting is over-cap +300% damage increase from. If you are saying it's from discord or corpse skin, I can understand that but that isn't part of the damage increase formula.

I imbued two identical GM exceptional composite bows with 44% HSL, 33% HML, 25% SSI and Scorpion Slayer. One bow I imbued with 45% DI and the other with 7% DI. My archer has 93% DI from other items, giving a total DI of 100% or 138% depending on which bow I equipped.

I killed 20+ miasma with each, with and without consecrate weapon, with and without armor ignore, with and without lightning strike. All damage between the two bows was essentially identical, within +/- 1 damage point of the highs/lows and max critical hits.

So, you can't exceed the 300% DI from items. I'm asking where the over-cap +300% damage is coming from.

No, *I think* he is saying, you have 300% from perfection, slayers, EoO, etc. And then you have 100% for DI from items, not that you can go higher than 100% DI from items. Try using a scorpion slayer on Miasma with 0 DI from items, then do it with 100 DI from items and see what your results are. Again, I don't know this to be true but it is my interpretation of what is being said.

 

[Stupid Miner]

No, *I think* he is saying, you have 300% from perfection, slayers, EoO, etc. And then you have 100% for DI from items, not that you can go higher than 100% DI from items. Try using a scorpion slayer on Miasma with 0 DI from items, then do it with 100 DI from items and see what your results are. Again, I don't know this to be true but it is my interpretation of what is being said.

Yep, this is correct.

 

[Lynk]

Here is what I found during my test.

Dreadhorn.

I had 100% DI from items. I had perfection. I had enemy of one. 300%.

I do a normal swing with an ornate and I hit for exactly the same amount as I did when I did a crushing blow.

Doesn't that indicate that damage increase from items is part of the 300%?

 

[Stupid Miner]

Here is what I found during my test.

Dreadhorn.

I had 100% DI from items. I had perfection. I had enemy of one. 300%.

I do a normal swing with an ornate and I hit for exactly the same amount as I did when I did a crushing blow.

Doesn't that indicate that damage increase from items is part of the 300%?

Nope. And that's 250% damage there (not counting the DI)
300% with the crushing blow.

Percentages are annoyingly confusing.
Perfection is 100% damage increase which means you're doing 200% damage
EoO is 50% damage increase which means you're doing 150% damage
However Perfection + EoO = 250% damage (100% + 100% + 50%)
You start counting from 100%, not 0%.

 

[Lynk]

Nope. And that's 250% damage there (not counting the DI)
300% with the crushing blow.

Percentages are annoyingly confusing.
Perfection is 100% damage increase which means you're doing 200% damage
EoO is 50% damage increase which means you're doing 150% damage
However Perfection + EoO = 250% damage (100% + 100% + 50%)
You start counting from 100%, not 0%.

If that is true, then the crushing blow should have done more damage than a regular hit once perfection was achieved. That wasn't the case though.

Unless I'm missing something?

 

[Thunderz]

If that is true, then the crushing blow should have done more damage than a regular hit once perfection was achieved. That wasn't the case though.

Where you using a slayer wepon? if so then you had already hit the 300 cap.

When i had a lil test using crushing blow it would do the same damage that i would do once i hit perfection [around 105] so instead of going from 80 dmg upto 105 in about 4 hits when i hit perfection, id be doing 105 the whole time.

It gains you about 80 dmg in total BUT hitting a crit with LS can do that on your first swing and if the next 3 crit aswell your doing way more dmg with LS all the way [if using an ornate] or DS or AI compaired to CB.

Thunderz

 

[Lynk]

Where you using a slayer wepon? if so then you had already hit the 300 cap.

No, I was fighting dreadhorn.

 

[Stupid Miner]

If that is true, then the crushing blow should have done more damage than a regular hit once perfection was achieved. That wasn't the case though.

Unless I'm missing something?

With those numbers? Yea, you should have been doing more.

Nope, i think there's something odd about how they calculate EoO and other damage increase percentages

Only thing I can guess is EoO is multiplicative, not additive.

Meaning... 2.0 times damage with Perfection or a super slayer * 1.5 = 3.0 times damage or 300% damage

Actually it seems all the separate damage increasers are multiplicative, so 5 paths of honor and a super slayer is 300% damage.
(item property discluded, it's still completely separate)

 

[Lynk]

With those numbers? Yea, you should have been doing more. Granted the damage ranges may have been overlapping.

I'll do it again to verify..

 

[Stupid Miner]

I'll do it again to verify..

I already verified it for you.

EoO + Perfect or a Super Slayer does the same damage as a Single Slayer.

 

[Old Man of UO]

With those numbers? Yea, you should have been doing more.

Nope, i think there's something odd about how they calculate EoO and other damage increase percentages

Only thing I can guess is EoO is multiplicative, not additive.

Meaning... 2.0 times damage with Perfection or a super slayer * 1.5 = 3.0 times damage or 300% damage

Actually it seems all the separate damage increasers are multiplicative, so 5 paths of honor and a super slayer is 300% damage.
(item property discluded, it's still completely separate)

This has me a bit baffled because it doesn't seem to *always* follow the formulas from the design notes... I'm still not quite following how it actually works. Of course, many of the designer notes are no longer correct.

Here is the *official* formula for damage bonus:
Final Damage Bonus% = Tactics Bonus + Anatomy Bonus + Lumber Bonus + Strength Bonus + Damage Increase Items*
Final Damage = Base Damage + (Base Damage * Final Damage Bonus%)

Where do Honor, Specials, EoO and Slayer damage fit in? Before or After the "Final Damage Bonus%" is calculated?

 

[Stupid Miner]

This has me a bit baffled because it doesn't seem to *always* follow the formulas from the design notes... I'm still not quite following how it actually works. Of course, many of the designer notes are no longer correct.

Here is the *official* formula for damage bonus:
Final Damage Bonus% = Tactics Bonus + Anatomy Bonus + Lumber Bonus + Strength Bonus + Damage Increase Items*
Final Damage = Base Damage + (Base Damage * Final Damage Bonus%)

Where do Honor, Specials, EoO and Slayer damage fit in? Before or After the "Final Damage Bonus%" is calculated?

It seems to me with this new data the formula would look something like:

(Tactics+Anat+Lj+DI+Str) * Slayer * EoO * Perfection * Crushing Blow * etc...

With the stuff in parentheses just being a place holder meaning "how they currently work."

So if this is right Crushing Blow + EoO should multiply your damage by 2.25
1.5 * 1.5 = 2.25 (or 225% if you prefer)

Yep, tested the numbers on some sheep. They line up.

 

[Old Man of UO]

It seems to me with this new data the formula would look something like:

(Tactics+Anat+Lj+DI+Str) * Slayer * EoO * Perfection * Crushing Blow * etc...

With the stuff in parentheses just being a place holder meaning "how they currently work."

So if this is right Crushing Blow + EoO should multiply your damage by 2.25
1.5 * 1.5 = 2.25 (or 225% if you prefer)

Yep, tested the numbers on some sheep. They line up.

LOL... sheep! I was imagining poking some higher level critter to verify.

Thanks for the info!

BTW - since you put this together, mind sending in a Developers question for verification?

 

[[JD]]

EoO + Perfect or a Super Slayer does the same damage as a Single Slayer.

miner, are you saying

single slayer = 300% (max) damage

eoo + perfect = single slayer = 300% dmg

eoo + super slayer = single slayer = 300% dmg

 

[Lynk]

He is saying whatever damage you deal normally = 100%.

From there you would get 100% from perfection, 50% from EoO, 50% from Super Slayer, 100% from direct slayer.

So perfection, eoo, and super slayer would cap you.

Or perfection and direct slayer.

Or eoo, super, and direct slayer.

From my experience on dreadhorn, I had perfection and EoO (no slayer type). When I hit with normally with an ornate I did the exact same amount of damage as I did when I did a crushing blow. I haven't gone back to do it again since this discussion though.

 

[Stupid Miner]

miner, are you saying

single slayer = 300% (max) damage

eoo + perfect = 300% dmg

eoo + super slayer = 300% dmg

yep

 

[soze]

I decided to take my sampire there an try out my newly imbued scorpion slayer Radiant scimitar

I tried it first without perfection or EoO,,,and non-paragons were going down in 4 or 5 (i did use consecrate weap)

Pragons obviously took a little longer....when i did use perfection and EoO, it really didnt seem to go all that much faster

I will say this...it didnt take too long before i was over wieght with gold and para chests...should of brought bag of sending....I plowed through these things fast

 

[[JD]]

lynk and miner's replies seem to contradict each other, ill test when i get home. thanks