[UO Herald] Producer's Update - June 2010

[UO News]

The developer/player relationship is an interesting one. There is a delicate balance between the developer as player, developer as psychologist, and developer as creator/annihilator. We have to balance each one of them in order to maximize what each of you think is acceptable.

As players of our own game, we have a passion and interest for the legacy of Ultima Online, and how we interpret that and convey it through story, or prioritizing what systems and bugs to fix. We then think about what the player wants. Next, as creators and annihilators, we remove and add as necessary. Not unlike chefs, sometimes the mix of ingredients is acceptable, sometimes bitter and unpleasant. However, if we want you to return we’ll keep improving our skills.

This summer we’ve chosen to take the story arc a different direction. So often it’s been easy to show you good, and say “Hey, this is good, we are all good-natured at heart, this is obviously what life is about … “



More...

 

[Bardie]

i iz excited?

 

[canary]

Thanks... I think.

BTW, you know what would be awesome? Having an event that would actually celebrate doing VIRTUOUS deeds more often. I'm kinda over the 'turn in evil blackrock for pretties/ get glass dagger/ destroy a city for rare rubble' kinda stuff.

It would be nice to know the team actually rewarded players for doing good things with their characters. And yeah, you can say 'well humility is a virtue', but MOST players don't think like that. A little push or incentive to do the 'right thing' once in a while would be very, very cool.

 

[northwoodschopper]

Thanks... I think.

BTW, you know what would be awesome? Having an event that would actually celebrate doing VIRTUOUS deeds more often. I'm kinda over the 'turn in evil blackrock for pretties/ get glass dagger/ destroy a city for rare rubble' kinda stuff.

It would be nice to know the team actually rewarded players for doing good things with their characters. And yeah, you can say 'well humility is a virtue', but MOST players don't think like that. A little push or incentive to do the 'right thing' once in a while would be very, very cool.

being good is suppose to be boring and yield little in rewards. if there was a lot of incentive to do good, then you have the same ammount of greed going towards the goal.

if the virtues are ever finished up, that will be the incentive for virtuous players, if the devs ever get around to changing over the karma loss into specific virtue loss.

 

[Lord Chaos]

Also, Logrus is putting together something spicy that will give Treasure chest an interesting little challenge.

Erhm, the majority of the complaints were about the lack of reward, not about getting more challenge. If you only add minor rewards, but increase the challenge levels, then it evens out to still being un-fun to do.

 

[canary]

being good is suppose to be boring and yield little in rewards.

Because...?

 

[Lord Chaos]

Because...?

Because of some stupid notion people have stuck in their head.

 

[northwoodschopper]

Because...?

Because of some stupid notion people have stuck in their head.

lol because it's just how it is. you aren't rewarded merely for being lawful, and even 'good' heroics are met with just recognition and charity.

however, i like how you completely pass over the rest of my post though. rewards for 'good' players should be the virtue system, not material wealth or statistical gain.

 

[Demonous]

so 3rd party program detect is out right now?

 

[kelmo]

That's what the man said. *smiles*

 

[LordDrago]

so 3rd party program detect is out right now?

and has been

 

[RawHeadRex]

Tmaps probably get more reward through more challenge, not more reward through less or same challenge.

 

[Tukaram]

... the developer as player, developer as psychologist, and developer as creator/annihilator.

I'd like to introduce you to our new developer Brahma. Sorry I just woke up and this amused me.


I am curious to see what t-hunt changes we get.

 

[Martyna Zmuir]

The notion that 'good' actions shouldn't be rewarded is ludicrous while destroying Magincia and giving blackrock to cloaked strangers is. If there is no reason to be good and every reason to be bad (evil is too strong a word here), people will opt for the path to the most shinies. Fame & Karma, as game mechanics, mean little aside from Chivalry requirements and a title. The Virtue system has about as much chance of being finished as UO has of exceeding WoW in subscription numbers.


What’s needed here is an event or a system wherein good Virtuous acts are a path to rewards. If you talk to the Bane Recruiter it’s not difficult to come away with the impression that the Bane Chosen are little more than organized bigotry using the guise of a ‘recent’ war to gain followers. If you talk to the Ophidian Recruiter, he speaks of being attacked for their blackrock. (These oracles may be broken on GL, unless they only respond to the opposite side’s name) As event fiction goes, not counting the Good Neighbors story as it barely brushes the surface of the war, there is no definitive reason to work for either side as one line of text does not a compelling reason make. If the oracles were meant to say more, please fix them. If they weren’t meant to say more… then…uhm… fail.

 

[northwoodschopper]

of course being bad is going to be more rewarding. having players 'be bad' allows the devs more freedom in the outcome, since it was the players that were hand-fed into the outcome.

imagine in magincia, if there were a lot of players on one shard that actually fended off the cities from destruction. the devs would be in a bind as they could not proceed with the other plans for magincia (and just imagine the rallying cries about no rubble when other shards freely loot).

would the destruction of haven make much sense if no one gave blackrock?

by awarding the players for the bad decisions, it gives the devs the ability to drastically alter things because of the majority of players' inevitable participation and acceptance, and allows the story arc.

it actually fits in with the whole order/chaos thing ultima online has: order brings about stasis, while chaos brings about changes. and majority of players seem to want change, not stasis.

 

[Yalp]

so... "On the 3rd party program detection: as stated we’ve already put in tracking to determine different apps working through the client. We’ve had to continue to update how we parse the information so that we don’t take unfounded action."

Huh? It's in but you need to study some more on how to interpret/interpolate/infuse/intersect the information? Sorry.. but it's hogwash...

How about for an update you say something such as....


While we study our study of the study we began oh 12 years ago... this is what we've decided to do with those players we catch cheating via 1) Speedhacking 2) Scripting, 3) Exploiting, etc. We are gonna do XXX the first time, YYY the second and/or ZZZZ the third time. And to eliminate the benefits said players have gotten from cheating over the last 14 years, we are going to do AAA, BBB, and CCC.

 

[Yalp]

of course being bad is going to be more rewarding. having players 'be bad' allows the devs more freedom in the outcome, since it was the players that were hand-fed into the outcome.

imagine in magincia, if there were a lot of players on one shard that actually fended off the cities from destruction. the devs would be in a bind as they could not proceed with the other plans for magincia (and just imagine the rallying cries about no rubble when other shards freely loot).

would the destruction of haven make much sense if no one gave blackrock?

by awarding the players for the bad decisions, it gives the devs the ability to drastically alter things because of the majority of players' inevitable participation and acceptance, and allows the story arc.

it actually fits in with the whole order/chaos thing ultima online has: order brings about stasis, while chaos brings about changes. and majority of players seem to want change, not stasis.

have to agree.. during one event when the Shadow Lords had to assassinate some npc for some whatever storyline... our shard rallied, forged unheard of alliances, and prevented the murder. What happened? The EM came and did it themselves. Because the storyline progressing is what mattered to them. And the ending was a forgone conclusion.

 

[HD2300]

On the 3rd party program detection: as stated we’ve already put in tracking to determine different apps working through the client.

Yay!! Yay!!

Ban a couple. Then ban a couple more on a continual basis, and then very very few will use a 3rd party program again.

and people who make a living off UO = sell outs and TOTAL LOSERS

When they ban these Judas and Benedict Arnolds, that will be a good day. :gun:

 

[Dermott of LS]

...

While I think the current event has certain problems and issues, I hope the concept isn't abandoned as it seems to be a decent start towards a bit more of a "dynamic" spawn system which would be nice to see become more the norm in UO over Creature X spawns in Location A repeatedly and endlessly. Sure it breaks the illusion when the whole thing resets, but without occasional resets, it wouldn;t work in an MMOG setting anyway so *shrug*.

Secondly while I look forward to the upcoming UI updates, I shudder to think of having to do my own updates to my UI packages

people who make a living off UO = sell outs and TOTAL LOSERS

I think that's quite an unfair statement. I have no problem with anyone who can pull off LEGITIMATELY creating their own business via selling MMOG items. How player A and player B decide to trade such items is noone else's business but those two people. However, that being said, I do look forward to people who are actually EXPLOITING being removed from the game. Exploiters are the problem, it's just easier to point fingers at the secondary effect (that said exploiters can and do sell the fruits of their exploits for real cash).

Ban people for EXPLOITING, not TRADING.

 

[Martyna Zmuir]

of course being bad is going to be more rewarding. having players 'be bad' allows the devs more freedom in the outcome, since it was the players that were hand-fed into the outcome.

imagine in magincia, if there were a lot of players on one shard that actually fended off the cities from destruction. the devs would be in a bind as they could not proceed with the other plans for magincia (and just imagine the rallying cries about no rubble when other shards freely loot).

would the destruction of haven make much sense if no one gave blackrock?

by awarding the players for the bad decisions, it gives the devs the ability to drastically alter things because of the majority of players' inevitable participation and acceptance, and allows the story arc.

it actually fits in with the whole order/chaos thing ultima online has: order brings about stasis, while chaos brings about changes. and majority of players seem to want change, not stasis.

have to agree.. during one event when the Shadow Lords had to assassinate some npc for some whatever storyline... our shard rallied, forged unheard of alliances, and prevented the murder. What happened? The EM came and did it themselves. Because the storyline progressing is what mattered to them. And the ending was a forgone conclusion.

Quoted this all because it was easier...

If the ending is always a foregone conclusion... *YAWN* They gave us sides to choose, if the choice is an illusion... *YAWN* The freedom in the story should be the players actions and the ending malleable enough to go either way.

Just because shards may have different outcomes, as the rift battle at the Magincia moongate was -supposed- to be (not all shards had the same results), isn't a valid reason in a 'living, breathing' MMO. Its laziness.

Relating this to Chaos/Order.. eh.. notsomuch. Chaos is a primal force, always there regardless what kind of limits are placed on it by Order. Players do want change, but they also want choice. Having things only go a predetermined way is probably the most extreme example of order possible...

If a shard banded together to stop the Shadowlord from assassinating someone and were successful to the point invulnerable EMs stepped in and did what the bad guys were incapable of.. that’s.. sad. No live event should be that limited. Story progression could have happened regardless, it would have just forced the writer to be more creative.

 

[Exgirlfriend]

"On the 3rd party program detection: as stated we’ve already put in tracking to determine different apps working through the client. We’ve had to continue to update how we parse the information so that we don’t take unfounded action."


Maybe this decade then? This is so old and stale...why don’t you just address this issue once and for all...hearing it's almost there for the last 10 years is pathetic...Believe it or not, I was almost banned for paging on people who...you guessed it...are all banned for cheating now. Either address the issue or make it available to everyone. It's truly unfair to people that don’t use cheat programs to auto-train or auto-heal or auto-gather...what's wrong with you people?

Simple solution, make a shard with no gold...exile all the cheater's accounts there...they can play, and pay...it's a win win for everyone!

 

[AesSedai]

"On the 3rd party program detection: as stated we’ve already put in tracking to determine different apps working through the client. We’ve had to continue to update how we parse the information so that we don’t take unfounded action."


Maybe this decade then? This is so old and stale...why don’t you just address this issue once and for all...hearing it's almost there for the last 10 years is pathetic...Believe it or not, I was almost banned for paging on people who...you guessed it...are all banned for cheating now. Either address the issue or make it available to everyone. It's truly unfair to people that don’t use cheat programs to auto-train or auto-heal or auto-gather...what's wrong with you people?

Simple solution, make a shard with no gold...exile all the cheater's accounts there...they can play, and pay...it's a win win for everyone!

- I applaud your gusto. Yet, I do agree they should err on the side of caution -rather- than force something new in, without giving it its due cons-and-i.terations.

...

- Good update, producer. I look forward to how the next half-year unfolds..
Do not blame the endings / improve the fayles from the begin{d}ings (,many many founders and Devs excluding..)..
...---...

 

[Nexus]

Do not blame the endings / improve the fayles from the begin{d}ings (,many many founders and Devs excluding..)..
...---...

Have to agree with this... Leave the cutesy feel good endings to Disney they like those... You ever actually read "The Jungle Book"? When our wayward jungle boy returns to society he is rejected... and then gets his animal friends to raze the entire village.

In "Pinocchio" our little wooden boy leaves his father inside a shark not a whale for 2 years!

So yea not so cutesy endings are more common in the timeless classics, UO being a timeless classic in it's own right justifies an evil gruesome ending once in a while.

 

[Hannes Erich]

Thanks for the update, Mr. Crowner! One of the things that struck me was your plans "to press the visibility and accessibility of Ultima from multiple fronts." When I revisited Ultima Online in 2008, I had a hard time figuring out how buy a new account and get access to new content. I've since recovered my original account name and password, but that experience in 2008 was frustrating to say the least! If you're planning to make it easier for new players to join the game, that's an awesome thing indeed.

Seems like I came back at the right time, with all the changes afoot (played 1997-2003; also played in 2006 and 2008). The cheaters days are numbered, the world's changed a lot, and I get to explore it all over again with the new client (which is coming along beautifully).

 

[jack flash uk]

MORE IMPORTANT THAN ANYTHING ELSE HERE!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I did not know that Mesanna was in hospital, so i wish her a very speedy recovery, and look forward to hearing from her here

real life first

the "game" second

so

GET WELL SOON MESANNA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Minerva Foxglove]

I second that! Big hug to Mesanna! All my best wishes

 

[RawHeadRex]

everyone lubs Mesanna.
thank you for both updates !

 

[jbfortune]

They've probably detected everyone apart from people on stratics scripts and they don't want to ban 95% of the paying accounts.

I remember a poll on here about scripting and by far more people said they did it or didn't care about it than did.

 

[Connor_Graham]

and people who make a living off UO = sell outs and TOTAL LOSERS

Like Stratics does?

 

[Lord Chaos]

Oh my god you people are stupid sometimes, they're measuring programs, not stopping exploits. Exploits happen on a situational basis and those requiring programs are just run on a need basis and as such they won't detect them as they won't be running at this time.

 

[HD2300]

and people who make a living off UO = sell outs and TOTAL LOSERS

Like Stratics does?

No just RMT sell outs that do it on a massive scale. i.e. that their "job" is to sell for real money gold, items, castles. Dont care about some dude that sells off gold or whatever once every 6 months.

There is a saying "the love of money is the root of all evil."

No RMT -> less problems in the game.

 

[longshanks]

They've probably detected everyone apart from people on stratics scripts and they don't want to ban 95% of the paying accounts.

I remember a poll on here about scripting and by far more people said they did it or didn't care about it than did.

Hogwash. 95% of the people do not cheat. This is evidenced by the total lack of a player base in fel. If people thought the pvp scene was on the up and up, you'd see more people there. On Chessy noone is doing the ophid invasion on the Fel side other than the pvpr or the guild that is protected by the pvpr.

People don't goto fel because of the cheating. There are also far better ways to make gold on the tram side these days without putting up with all the speedy gonzalez florence nightengale hybrid templates.

I still wonder how long this monitoring is going to take.

 

[Lord Chaos]

Hogwash. 95% of the people do not cheat.

Complete none sense.

If people thought the pvp scene was on the up and up, you'd see more people there.

Not really, people don't go there for just PvP and they'd still get their asses handed to them by a super mouse/keyboard/nostromo using l33t d00d.

People don't goto fel because of the cheating.

People don't do Fel because of the griefing, l33t d00d PvPing and group ganking.

 

[Shelleybean]

I hope Mesanna makes a speedy recovery from her surgery.

 

[Beer_Cayse]

Ummm, could the 3rd party detect be causing all the lag I experience to LA? I've already gotten my ISP part fixed but ALTER.NET feeding EA and even LA itself is nasty. I can play Europa better than LA.

 

[Picus at the office]

Hogwash. 95% of the people do not cheat. This is evidenced by the total lack of a player base in fel. If people thought the pvp scene was on the up and up, you'd see more people there. On Chessy noone is doing the ophid invasion on the Fel side other than the pvpr or the guild that is protected by the pvpr.

People don't goto fel because of the cheating. There are also far better ways to make gold on the tram side these days without putting up with all the speedy gonzalez florence nightengale hybrid templates.

I still wonder how long this monitoring is going to take.

I bet every tram player opens every corpse, loots every gem, pockets the gold, evals the items all by hand. Sure, thats it.

 

[Tina Small]

Ummm, could the 3rd party detect be causing all the lag I experience to LA? I've already gotten my ISP part fixed but ALTER.NET feeding EA and even LA itself is nasty. I can play Europa better than LA.

Oh man it was bad last night on LA. Was making the loop picking chests for a while and couldn't believe all the "you must wait" messages and casting spells of various types and then absolutely nothing would happen.

 

[longshanks]

Hogwash. 95% of the people do not cheat.

Complete none sense.


I would suggest u try the game without your helpers. It obviously clouds your judgement.

If people thought the pvp scene was on the up and up, you'd see more people there.

Not really, people don't go there for just PvP and they'd still get their asses handed to them by a super mouse/keyboard/nostromo using l33t d00d.

The archer/dreadmare template has brought more people to fel for pvp. This would increase again if the third party was out of the way.

People don't goto fel because of the cheating.

People don't do Fel because of the griefing, l33t d00d PvPing and group ganking.

Those l33t d00d's ur talking about are the main culprits of the 3rd party app scene.

 

[jbfortune]

Hogwash. 95% of the people do not cheat. This is evidenced by the total lack of a player base in fel. If people thought the pvp scene was on the up and up, you'd see more people there. On Chessy noone is doing the ophid invasion on the Fel side other than the pvpr or the guild that is protected by the pvpr.

People don't goto fel because of the cheating. There are also far better ways to make gold on the tram side these days without putting up with all the speedy gonzalez florence nightengale hybrid templates.

I still wonder how long this monitoring is going to take.

Don't you get it, its going to take ten more years! They know how many people cheat, you have a good idea by just seeing how many members there are of scripting forums. Now obviously a lot of them are people signing up "just to see it and confirm how it works" but lots of them use scripts every day.

I don't go to Fel because of these reasons.
1 - I'm rubbish at pvp
2 - I think some one good at pvp is going to beat me, even if I were using a script.
3 - Once I die, I don't like the "omg, n00b, you sux0r"
4 - Its ugly
5 - I have all my chars fully scrolled out

Nothing to do with people cheating there.

 

[Demonous]

we're still waiting for you to make a reply to this thread Cal with more detail on 3rd party detect Mr. Vague

 

[Jhym]

I've always been a little curious why the devs don't just get all of the known "3rd party" apps, load them on a PC or two, hook up to an internal shard and just watch the packet streams and shard to look for the patterns of what the apps do.

Or perhaps they've already done that and realized they can't differentiate between the standard data stream and a hacked one.

Hmmm...

 

[Picus at the office]

I've always been a little curious why the devs don't just get all of the known "3rd party" apps, load them on a PC or two, hook up to an internal shard and just watch the packet streams and shard to look for the patterns of what the apps do.

Or perhaps they've already done that and realized they can't differentiate between the standard data stream and a hacked one.

Hmmm...

I think this could only work for the speeding, though I don't do this and hence have know idea how it works. The scripting, with the exception of a farming type or skill raising, I fail to see how this more dynamic stream could be detected. I believe most of the scripts people complain about are reactive and would be harder to catch simply due to the fact that the reaction is specific to a event and not as predictable. Yes the auto cureing(for instance)is specific to this event but so is the guy who's got it all linked to a hotkey on his 1800 button mouse. I think.

 

[Beer_Cayse]

yeah ... I'd love to get into the fray but I'll be switched if the cause of my deaths will be lag from outside the shard. Event lag I'll accept ... it's part of the game.

I played on Europa today and topped off my character there with the last of his quests. LA was so bad the only thing I could do was meet up with a player to finalize a sale. Fooey.

 

[Flutter]

I think Cal should be writing for politicians.
Really long blah blah blahs without actually saying anything.
Two thumbs up.

 

[AirmidCecht]

Thank you for the update Cal! I guess I'll brush up on my pirate gal cuz if there is new lootz buried she'll be the one searchin *smiles*

Also very happy to hear Mesanna is on the mend and ready to help roll out more fun stuff *sunshine and lollipop hugs*

 

[kelmo]

*sunshine and lollipop hugs*

Hippy...

 

[phantus]

*sunshine and lollipop hugs*

Hippy...

beat me to it...

 

[AirmidCecht]

 

[HD2300]

imo the bane dragon issues highlights why there should be separate PvM only and PvP only shards. You will have less bored or greedy people wrecking the game for the majority. The game should be designed so that the majority can enjoy it, not for a small minority to profit or grief.

 

[Nok]

Thank you Cal for the update about Mesanna... all the best to her and a speedy recovery!