Gargoyle Thrower?

[Lost-Soul]

Does bushido/parry work with a thrower?

 

[Zalan]

I know that Evasion doesen`t work. My guess would be No, but I can`t be 100% sure.

 

[Lord GOD(GOD)]

Bushido does. I don't think Parry does.

 

[Lost-Soul]

But doesn't having parry get rid of the defense of penalty when using a shield? So wouldn't bushido/parry technically work with a one handed weapon only?

 

[Another Lamer]

Throwing doesn't work full stop.

Created a char with throwing parry bushido tactics anat etc etc.

50HCI 70DCI

I cant hit for sh*t, I can't parry for sh*t, and I can confirm I can't evade for sh*t.

As it stands the only point of throwing is to use a -mage wep to get 25dci.

 

[[JD]]

umm.. negative nancy,

counter attack routinely disarms my human archer from across the screen in pvp

 

[Yalp]

We've been discussing this in another thread. I'd love to have a garg thrower... but I'm confused as a tick on a water snake.

Pub 66 patch notes said....

Throwing Changes


* Close Quarters Combat: A player’s dexterity and throwing skill equal to Grandmaster or higher can compensate for the hit chance penalty. Close quarters combat with a throwing weapon will no longer require you to have the swordsmanship skill to negate hit chance penalty.
* Shield Penalties: Player’s with no skill points in the Parry Skill will now have a minimum chance to hit.


Does that mean NO shield and NO parry = minimum chance to hit?

I stoned my parry skill, took off my shield and put it on.. it made no difference. I couldn't hit a mongbat to save my life.

I would swap resist for parry.. but If you can't hit the broad side of a barn.. why bother? If you can't even use a 2 handed weapon in order to use parry.. why bother? So you have to use parry AND carry a shield.. and hope you are within the right amount of tiles..

UGH.. and I really wanted to have fun with the template.

Garg race

Chiv 70
Anat 90
Heal 90
Bush 95/120
Throwing 120
Parry 120
Tactics 120

 

[Stupid Miner]

We've been discussing this in another thread. I'd love to have a garg thrower... but I'm confused as a tick on a water snake.

Pub 66 patch notes said....

Throwing Changes


* Close Quarters Combat: A player’s dexterity and throwing skill equal to Grandmaster or higher can compensate for the hit chance penalty. Close quarters combat with a throwing weapon will no longer require you to have the swordsmanship skill to negate hit chance penalty.
* Shield Penalties: Player’s with no skill points in the Parry Skill will now have a minimum chance to hit.


Does that mean NO shield and NO parry = minimum chance to hit?

Um, pretty sure they didn't mean that at all. It'd be a really roundabout way of saying that and doesn't make any sense either.

 

[Zalan]

If they ever fix the first throw bug, throwing can out damage just about any other weapon skill. A Soul Glaive has the ability to run neck & neck with the ornate axe for damage. Sure its really hard to get the Soul Glaive to 1.25 swing speed, but it should be possable.

To get to the 1.25 Swing Speed: Wardens Wing Armor (+5 SSI), Beserkers Breastplate (+10 SSI), Turquose Ring (+5 SSI), Soul Glaive with 30 SSI, & the spell Divine Fury, +16 Dex on the Jewelry, +42 Stamina increase on your armor, & using a Greater Stamina pot. For me its to much effort to get the 1.25 Swing Speed. However, getting 1.5 Swing Speed is fairly simple.

Right now I`m running a TBC I`m fairly happy with. I just use the first swing bug to Honor my enemy.

 

[Stupid Miner]

If they ever fix the first throw bug, throwing can out damage just about any other weapon skill. A Soul Glaive has the ability to run neck & neck with the ornate axe for damage. Sure its really hard to get the Soul Glaive to 1.25 swing speed, but it should be possable.

To get to the 1.25 Swing Speed: Wardens Wing Armor (+5 SSI), Beserkers Breastplate (+10 SSI), Turquose Ring (+5 SSI), Soul Glaive with 30 SSI, & the spell Divine Fury, +16 Dex on the Jewelry, +42 Stamina increase on your armor, & using a Greater Stamina pot. For me its to much effort to get the 1.25 Swing Speed. However, getting 1.5 Swing Speed is fairly simple.

Right now I`m running a TBC I`m fairly happy with. I just use the first swing bug to Honor my enemy.

Hm, Soul Glaive is a 4s weapon. 180 stamina and 60 SSI is still 1.5 seconds, which is lower damage over time than the ornate axe.

However, with certain enemies and Armor Ignore, the Soul Glaive far exceeds any other weapon's Damage per Second.

 

[Another Lamer]

Hm, Soul Glaive is a 4s weapon. 180 stamina and 60 SSI is still 1.5 seconds, which is lower damage over time than the ornate axe.

However, with certain enemies and Armor Ignore, the Soul Glaive far exceeds any other weapon's Damage per Second.

There is no doubt at all, throwing has potential.

But lets get back to reality, at this moment in time Throwing has as much use as Camping.

Throwing has been around since September last year......will it be the full 12 months before it work?

After playing UO for 10+ years im used to the bugs, let downs and the "fixes". But seriously to launch an expansion which a skill forms a major part and for it still not to work after 10 months is just poor.

10 months on there is still so many unanswered questions because it isnt fixed, noone knows the answers: -

- Can you parry with throwing?
- Can you use bushido?
- Can you use evasion?
- Do you still need to be a set distance away?

Then people wander why so few people play gargs

And whilst i'm on it.....why did they link healing stones to a pot timer??? whats the point???? isnt it just better to use pots with ep????



Someone have an idea please!!

 

[Stupid Miner]

There is no doubt at all, throwing has potential.
...
Someone have an idea please!!

I'm not going to argue with you about whether Throwing works or not, and if so, to what degree, and whether that degree is good enough to justify the costs and general annoyance of the problems.

However, I will mention that generally the best templates are generally made up of several things which had generally been considered worthless.

Example? Until about ML, no one thought hand-to-hand combat fighters were any good. Mages, Tamers, and Archers dominated.
Then eventually people realized vampire form leeches were incredibly powerful.
So, fighters hadn't been bad, but rather people didn't know how to use them correctly. Vampiric Embrace has worked the same way since AoS.

Another example would be Fencer/Archer PvPers

 

[Zalan]

Bump it up to 210 Stamina with 60% SSI thats when it over takes the Ornate Axe. Thats still alot of effort for a 1.25 swing speed though. Although if you add lj in Ornate Axe retakes the damage crown.

Throwing can still woop the hell out of archery, macing, & fencing if they ever fix the bugs ><

 

[Zalan]

1) Can you parry with throwing?
2)Can you use bushido?
3)Can you use evasion?
4) Do you still need to be a set distance away?

1) You can parry with a Shield in your hand. Bushido/Parry combo doese not allow you to parry with a weapon, nor can you parry with a shield(have to go to tc to confirms this).
2 & 3) You can use certian Bushido moves: all samuria attack moves work, you can use confidence- Evasion doese not work - don`t know about Counter Attack.
4) I believe the sweet spot still exist for maxium benefit. What was removed was the close combat Hit Penality that required Swordsmanship to counter it.

 

[Another Lamer]

1) Can you parry with throwing?
2)Can you use bushido?
3)Can you use evasion?
4) Do you still need to be a set distance away?

1) You can parry with a Shield in your hand. Bushido/Parry combo doese not allow you to parry with a weapon, nor can you parry with a shield(have to go to tc to confirms this).
2 & 3) You can use certian Bushido moves: all samuria attack moves work, you can use confidence- Evasion doese not work - don`t know about Counter Attack.
4) I believe the sweet spot still exist for maxium benefit. What was removed was the close combat Hit Penality that required Swordsmanship to counter it.

Any idea which are intended and which are broken?

 

[Stupid Miner]

Bump it up to 210 Stamina with 60% SSI thats when it over takes the Ornate Axe. Thats still alot of effort for a 1.25 swing speed though. Although if you add lj in Ornate Axe retakes the damage crown.

Throwing can still woop the hell out of archery, macing, & fencing if they ever fix the bugs ><

How do you get 210 Stamina?
150 + 8*6 = 198

Where the six is the number of armor slots that can have 8 stamina increase.
Will need to look through all the artifacts i suppose.

 

[Zalan]

I was think Greater Stamina when its Greater Agility. Actually with beserker breastplate its limited to 190 not 198.

 

[Zalan]

Any idea which are intended and which are broken?

I believe everything is working as intend, except Bushido/Parry not being able to parry with a shield for a thrower.

 

[Yalp]

1) Can you parry with throwing?
2)Can you use bushido?
3)Can you use evasion?
4) Do you still need to be a set distance away?

1) You can parry with a Shield in your hand. Bushido/Parry combo doese not allow you to parry with a weapon, nor can you parry with a shield(have to go to tc to confirms this).
2 & 3) You can use certian Bushido moves: all samuria attack moves work, you can use confidence- Evasion doese not work - don`t know about Counter Attack.
4) I believe the sweet spot still exist for maxium benefit. What was removed was the close combat Hit Penality that required Swordsmanship to counter it.

ok wait confused by this...

u CAN parry with a shield if you DO NOT have bushido?
u CAN NOT parry with a weapon if you have bush/parry?
U CAN NOT parry with a shield if you have bush/parry?
u CAN NOT use all the Bushido spells?

I know you can't hit a thing if you DO NOT have parry
I know you can't use UBWS on any 2 handed weps (to parry)
So you CAN"T use BUSHIDO on a thrower?

And it's working as intended?

 

[Zalan]

u CAN parry with a shield if you DO NOT have bushido? Yes
u CAN NOT parry with a weapon if you have bush/parry? Correct
U CAN NOT parry with a shield if you have bush/parry? I believe this is correct
u CAN NOT use all the Bushido spells? Correct

I know you can't hit a thing if you DO NOT have parry
I know you can't use UBWS on any 2 handed weps (to parry)
So you CAN"T use BUSHIDO on a thrower? You can use Bushido skills just nothing parry related.

And it's working as intended?

I believe it is working as intend, except not being able to parry with a shield when you have parry/bushido.

 

[Yalp]

u CAN parry with a shield if you DO NOT have bushido? Yes
u CAN NOT parry with a weapon if you have bush/parry? Correct
U CAN NOT parry with a shield if you have bush/parry? I believe this is correct
u CAN NOT use all the Bushido spells? Correct

I know you can't hit a thing if you DO NOT have parry
I know you can't use UBWS on any 2 handed weps (to parry)
So you CAN"T use BUSHIDO on a thrower? You can use Bushido skills just nothing parry related.

And it's working as intended?

I believe it is working as intend, except not being able to parry with a shield when you have parry/bushido.

Ugh.. ok thx. ... signed another disappointed customer (when it comes to throwing).

 

[Garm The Green]

ok wait confused by this...

u CAN parry with a shield if you DO NOT have bushido?
u CAN NOT parry with a weapon if you have bush/parry?
U CAN NOT parry with a shield if you have bush/parry?
u CAN NOT use all the Bushido spells?

I know you can't hit a thing if you DO NOT have parry
I know you can't use UBWS on any 2 handed weps (to parry)
So you CAN"T use BUSHIDO on a thrower?

And it's working as intended?

Going by what's been written above..

Surely it's simple - a throwing weapon cannot be used to parry, a shield is needed. However a samurai cannot parry with a shield. therefore a samurai thrower cannot parry.
In the same respect, just like an archer, because they cannot parry evasion, counter attack and the stam regen part of confidence would not work surely?
This is the trade-off for using a ranged weapon with bushido.

I cannot believe that you need parry to be able to hit a target, i would expect that that is a misinterpretation.


"Shield Penalties: Player’s with no skill points in the Parry Skill will now have a minimum chance to hit."

Surly this simply means, if you carry a shield (just for stats/mods like HCI) and dont have parry, you recieve a negative effect.

i haven't got SA, but surely this would be **** easy to test out on TC... i think a few people are just getting confused and infecting the masses with missinformation...

We know bushi doesn't work with a shield.
All we need to ascertain is whether you can parry using a throwing weapon with bushido and parry at high levels.
If you can parry, the other parry-based bushi skills should work. simples.

 

[Yalp]

I have been having a hard time grasping the throwing/bushido/parry thing.. so here's my test.. prod shard. Gargoyle Thrower.

Anat 90
Heal 90
Chiv 70
Bushido 110.2 >> 120
Parry 110.9 >> 120
Tactics 117.1 >>>120
Throwing 120

Shield .. Sign of Chaos Soul Charge 20, HCI 5 DCI 10 FC 1, 3/2/2/2/2
Weapon... Boomerang HCA 50, HML 25, HL 50, HCI 20, DI 23
Suit/Stats.. unchanged between tests.


Went to entrance of Underworld threw at slimes (then tested evasion with alliance mate)


Bushido spells with shield... all spells (except evasion) worked w/ and w/o parry... *didn't try counter attack.*
Evasion.. did not work with any combination of Parry/Shield

Parry w/Bushido.. did increase my hit chance (w/shield). I hit 5/30 times w/o Parry, w/shield. I hit roughly same amount w/parry w/shield and w/o parry w/o shield (28/30)

So.. if you are a thrower.. and you WANT to use a shield for mods, you have to have parry. Bushido seems to work either with or without parry, but some spells are not going to work with throwing.. period *evasion*. There are no 2 handed throwing weapons, and you can not ubws. You can not parry with a throwing weapon. I want to use my shield for the mods, so I am going to run with parry. I would love to have other hit specials.. ie whirlwind.. but it's not going to happen on the 3 weapons available to the throwers. Perhaps in the future we might get more.

 

[Roland']

UO Stratics - Combat

180 stam to make the soul glaive 2.5 sec weap. do 30ssi on weap, 10 on breastplate, 5 on cape, 5 on ring. then ya get 1.25. but! if you can find a way to get to 55% ssi you only need 150stam. please fill me in on that.