A seriously idea about balancng imbuing/artifacts/loot items

[RaistlinNowhere]

Well i have read all the thread that was opened about imbuing and the game, and have thought a lot about the problem.

To resume the thread, theres some idea coming from it :

- Imbuing have unbalanced the whole idea of pvm and have unbalanced(or too much balanced depend of how you see it) the pvp, cause we all can have max/perfect suit easily.

- Now artifacts, runic crafted items and loot items doesnt worth a lot if are not used for unravel , except a few artifacts that are useful when we make a new suit cause we mix imbued and those artifacts (but like i said are only a few).

- The designer team, thought that it would be difficult to make ubber items cause of the amount of regs it is necesary to do them, but like someone said (think was uokaiser) theres a lot of people farming them so are way easy to find them on a vendor.

- The relics, that needed to be hard to get, were crafted in a huge amount making it "rarity" go to trash. (also now , but less than before).

Well we can get more points about this but think these are the most important ones.

After thinking about the prob, (im a reliable imbuyer and a really good one making full suits from 0 and getting all mods at cap, have made more than 50 full suits so i know what im talking) i see that in almost all suits all players mix artifacts and imbued items, and the number of these imbued items go around 5-6 (i include jewelry, armor parts and weapons).

This is what make imbuing so unablanced, we can use too many imbued items in a suit, and thats i think is the solution also, make a CAP of the imbued items we can use at once.

This solution doesnt make the imbued items that already exist go to the trash barrel (or unravel hehe), it only make that we have to search , craft or loot the item that go well with the artifact and imbued items we have.

And the other part of the solution is to make the relics can be obtained only from unraveling the pvm loot, not from crafting. this will balance also the amount of ubber items we can see out there. (and yes make the diff to obtained, cause that was the original idea)

With this 2 easy solutions, we can solve the prob, and yes theres a problem with uo and the actual item system, we cant deny it, cause its the same as we cheat in a game and use a GOD mode, it lose all the entertainment.

Last thing, i thought also in the designer team, in a way of making this possible and dont thinking in imposible solutions, cause in the cap of the amount of imbued items, is easy to have check of how many Imbued tag items we are wearing, and also is easy to not make a crafted item give a relic when unravel.

Well i think thats all, and please dont flame too much

 

[Speedy Orkit]

I think new artifacts need to be made available, especially ones with HCI and mage armor on them, to open up new templates. I'd live to see some things like:

Ornament of the ________

2FC
3FCR
15HCI
10 Physical

Helm of the Apocalypse
MR2
10 Str bonus
10HCI
10/10/10/10/10
mage armor

Legs of Striking

20HCI
20/3/5/3/3
10 Int Bonus
Mage armor

 

[Evlar]

AoS items = Broken game.

Simples...

 

[Splup]

What imbuing did was balance the difference between the basic players and superrich players. Now ppl have pretty even suits which is Great.

Only thing that needs fixing is mob loot. There should be a way to try enhance a looted piece to being Exceptional so it could have 500 intensity imbued on em.

 

[Death Adder]

What imbuing did was balance the difference between the basic players and superrich players. Now ppl have pretty even suits which is Great.

Kinda, but the superrich can still have an advantage if they are dedicated crafters/imbuers, which I really appreciate. When I stride onto the PvP battlefield in my Basilisk/Bloodwood suit (assuming I finish it this decade) with all the standard mods (max Resist/HCI/DCI/DI/LMC/MR/Stam/HP/Mana) PLUS 16 HPR and 10 Damage Eater I will have a very nice (but not insurmountable) edge on most of my opponents who are probably not going to drop 300+ mil plus hundreds of hours farming/planting Seeds of Renewal to get a similar suit. It reminds me of the pre-AoS days when I would spend hours farming power/vanq weapons and fortifying/invulnerability armor then go out and destroy groups of 4+ clad in GM armor and weapons. I like that crafting/farming can give dedicated PvPers an edge.

 

[Death Adder]

Only thing that needs fixing is mob loot. There should be a way to try enhance a looted piece to being Exceptional so it could have 500 intensity imbued on em.

Though this would be nice, though it might be necessary to have a crafter do something to mob loot to get to the 500 intensity. But mob loot is useless except for unraveling (though I do examine loot closely these days to find relic-worthy pieces).

 

[chuckoatl]

This game is as balanced as it has been since before AoS. I don't see what the big deal is. With a little bit of work you can have w/e suit/temp you want. Imbuing has opened the world up to many temp ideas I have had throught the years but could not find jewels to make them work. It has opened up the creativity of everyone. Geez

 

[Myna]

the way to craft relics isnt the problem, the problem are the scripters digging out tons of gems a day, which are needed to craft them and also the people who support scripting by buying large amount of gems for example

when i read that someone orders 1000 perfect emeralds for example then we all know where these emeralds come from

 

[Percivalgoh]

I don't see how imbuing unbalanced the game. Maybe it gave crafters a bonus or anyone who has maintained their own crafter mule a bonus but people who are wealthy in game were always and still are able to get the best stuff. Did it change peoples goals in the game? Undoubtedly. Perhaps the problem is that some people play because they are only interested in the end result and others enjoy playing it regardless of the end result. Those who had the value of their all important end results changed are unhappy but those who enjoy adapting and learning new things are still happy even though things have changed.

 

[phantus]

They should have limited imbuing to 4 items in the beginning. They didn't and it's too late now. Monster loot has been broken since AoS and the DOOM mad loot rush. The only loot worth getting is now artifact or deco and there is few things that still give worthwhile loot in those regards.

 

[UOKaiser]

What imbuing did was balance the difference between the basic players and superrich players. Now ppl have pretty even suits which is Great.

Only thing that needs fixing is mob loot. There should be a way to try enhance a looted piece to being Exceptional so it could have 500 intensity imbued on em.

i like to add something, even is only good in a pvp strategy game with perfect balance. Something like having a dark sage vs a light sage. the only difference is one is dark and has black magic and the other is light and has white magic which each spell having a similar effect for both of them like holy light for white sage and unholy darkness for the black sage. But this is UO a sandbox with many options combinations and especialy mass variaty of uneven potential. Plus non pvp extensive so balnace means nothing. And clones of each other means a similar game of ryu vs ken.

 

[UOKaiser]

This game is as balanced as it has been since before AoS. I don't see what the big deal is. With a little bit of work you can have w/e suit/temp you want. Imbuing has opened the world up to many temp ideas I have had throught the years but could not find jewels to make them work. It has opened up the creativity of everyone. Geez

Creatively ends and trammel goals dies making PVM a lost memory unless am wrong and you imbue cold ressit on your weapons and night sight on your armor still? So that creativity continues.

 

[UOKaiser]

I don't see how imbuing unbalanced the game. Maybe it gave crafters a bonus or anyone who has maintained their own crafter mule a bonus but people who are wealthy in game were always and still are able to get the best stuff. Did it change peoples goals in the game? Undoubtedly. Perhaps the problem is that some people play because they are only interested in the end result and others enjoy playing it regardless of the end result. Those who had the value of their all important end results changed are unhappy but those who enjoy adapting and learning new things are still happy even though things have changed.

No my friend. Crafters did not receive a bonus. The bonus was givn to players that have 5 minutes to spend to take there materials to queens forge and make there close to perfect suit to go pvp. Crafters are players that spend 50% or more time in the game crafting for themselves for there friends and for sale. This they enjoy. There end game is to craft wondeful weapons and armor that are better than other crafters and affix there name to it so all the land know who crafted it. Unfortunetely when they imbue 500 intesity items and affix ther name to it there are about 1000's more of the same item in the shard owned by every player that can spare 5 minutes. The crafter does not stand out. People dont go around saying I want to get items from Sup Soc or Lord Thor or Golburg inc or Sebastion or Hephaestus or whoever else. These days they just say "hey who has a imbuer please don't mark the item though ah forget it I do it myself."

 

[UOKaiser]

Though this would be nice, though it might be necessary to have a crafter do something to mob loot to get to the 500 intensity. But mob loot is useless except for unraveling (though I do examine loot closely these days to find relic-worthy pieces).

Mob loot should have the possibility to make 600-700% intensity with runic hammers also able to do this. Imbuing stays at 500 for exeptional. All caps and stats are raised. All monsters are improved, the only way to achive such higher caps are to either craft them with the random mods the hard way or hunt them down and farm the monsters. Imbuing will only ever to get to 500. This is the only measure I see to undo the damage and to keep imbuing the same. This is drastic and will take alot of work but eventualy something similar will be needed when the dev and other players see the future and come to the realisation of it. hopefully they see it before they are forced to take action.

 

[Freelsy]

Mob loot should have the possibility to make 600-700% intensity with runic hammers also able to do this. Imbuing stays at 500 for exeptional. All caps and stats are raised. All monsters are improved, the only way to achive such higher caps are to either craft them with the random mods the hard way or hunt them down and farm the monsters. Imbuing will only ever to get to 500. This is the only measure I see to undo the damage and to keep imbuing the same. This is drastic and will take alot of work but eventualy something similar will be needed when the dev and other players see the future and come to the realisation of it. hopefully they see it before they are forced to take action.

Completely agree with ya. Here's the part I hate. No matter how much they improve mob loot, imbued stuff will always be just as good.

With imbued you can already hit the caps on everything, making a virtually perfect suit without mob loot items

Now they could up the total intensity per property (75% fireball) but that would just imbalance things far beyond what we have now.

If you think about it, farming for anything other than resources is history... Sadly, I believe those days are gone. Unless of course you're looking for hair dyes, totems and those kind of special items only obtained from monsters. But if you're looking for weapons/jewels, cheaper and quicker to go to your local imbuer

 

[Freelsy]

What imbuing did was balance the difference between the basic players and superrich players. Now ppl have pretty even suits which is Great.

This is not how it should be. Maybe in a socialist world ( lol ) but in a fantasy world you should only be as powerful/rich as you make yourself out to be. If you're a damn herder and love to play with animals and pour tea for your friends at the tavern, you cannot expect to become a wealthy person and have the same things everyone else has.

Sure some cheat, sure some dupe. But 95% of players are legit. I have put a lot of time and effort into the game to acquire insane weapons/armor/jewels, special items. Days of grinding to find that one perfect ornate axe. Or hours and hours of mondain tasks to get those amazing items. Now all one has to do is call up their local imbuer and ask for essentially the same thing to be made.

If you're a basic player, you're gonna acquire basic gear. If you make yourself super rich and devote time to the game you'll have the better stuff. End of story.

Lets look at Diablo for a second. To get the most sought after rune, a Zod rune, you have to farm for quite possibly many months. Its drop rate is something like .0000018. I love this system. It keeps things RARE and hard to find. It makes owning an amazing item worth something. (Did you see Astynax? Did you see that F'ing bokuto he had? That thing is amazing)

In the end. Basic players get basic gear. Hardcore players get the uber gear.

 

[UOKaiser]

Completely agree with ya. Here's the part I hate. No matter how much they improve mob loot, imbued stuff will always be just as good.

With imbued you can already hit the caps on everything, making a virtually perfect suit without mob loot items

Now they could up the total intensity per property (75% fireball) but that would just imbalance things far beyond what we have now.

If you think about it, farming for anything other than resources is history... Sadly, I believe those days are gone. Unless of course you're looking for hair dyes, totems and those kind of special items only obtained from monsters. But if you're looking for weapons/jewels, cheaper and quicker to go to your local imbuer

I thought about this. Yes the 75% fireball at this current state of the game would be overkill but with the ability to increase stats this will give players more hp than possible at the moment which in turn will overcome the higher rate on a fireball or anything else. It still will be difficult to get that 75% fireball because of the random mods on crafting and loot which will most likely make other things on the weapon useless which will be a balance between pefect but caped at 500 intensity weapon compared to a much stronger but imperfect weapon. i took all profesions into account on this solution and it's the only win win for everyone from PVM to crafters to PVPers and many others. The only lose is the poor dev will have alot of programing rearanging cut out for them so there head may burst but all of us will be happy and UO will be able to sustain itself for many years to come.

 

[Stupid Miner]

This is not how it should be. Maybe in a socialist world ( lol ) but in a fantasy world you should only be as powerful/rich as you make yourself out to be. If you're a damn herder and love to play with animals and pour tea for your friends at the tavern, you cannot expect to become a wealthy person and have the same things everyone else has.
...
In the end. Basic players get basic gear. Hardcore players get the uber gear.

If they want, they can always go back and readjust.
Require rare ingredients for 80% and up, drop the maximum intensity weight to 450%
All the current gear will wear out eventually (albeit very, very slowly)

Will they? eh, probably not.

In the end. Basic players get basic gear. Hardcore players get the uber gear.

And this is exactly what heartwood armor is for
If you're ridiculously rich you can enhance (break) 200 pieces to get a suit with 5% HCI or 10% DI on the armor pieces.

 

[Violence]

Re:

I am not quite sure imbuing needs any "balancing". At this point in Ultima everyone should be able to enjoy their characters at maximum "performance", veterans even more so. After AOS hit us it was quite crazy, now it's smooth. The playing field is more even than ever and I believe it should remain like that.

Artifacts versus imbuing is like creating "universal" weapon templates versus specific weapons lists in a PNP RPG if you know what I mean. Think that over. I'd say we should be allowed even more customization options, specifically graphical- Then I'd really feel "complete" in this game regarding my character(s) and that's something a decade of playing should allow me to feel.

So I can't quite bother reading it all through but imbuing needs no nerfing. rolleyes:

 

[Kallie Pigeon]

No my friend. Crafters did not receive a bonus. The bonus was givn to players that have 5 minutes to spend to take there materials to queens forge and make there close to perfect suit to go pvp. Crafters are players that spend 50% or more time in the game crafting for themselves for there friends and for sale. This they enjoy. There end game is to craft wondeful weapons and armor that are better than other crafters and affix there name to it so all the land know who crafted it. Unfortunetely when they imbue 500 intesity items and affix ther name to it there are about 1000's more of the same item in the shard owned by every player that can spare 5 minutes. The crafter does not stand out. People dont go around saying I want to get items from Sup Soc or Lord Thor or Golburg inc or Sebastion or Hephaestus or whoever else. These days they just say "hey who has a imbuer please don't mark the item though ah forget it I do it myself."

5 minutes? Only if you don't consider the time to gain skill and time to gather resources.

 

[UOKaiser]

5 minutes? Only if you don't consider the time to gain skill and time to gather resources.

Time to gain skill only need to be done once,2 days i did it when it first came out. I beleive it's easier now correct?. So once your 120 you don't need to continue to gain skill. 2 days it takes for power gamer. Longer for the casual gamer but once it's done it's done never again you need to do it. Gather resources buy from vender done. If only imbue for yourself you can have many resources over time stocked up on your home before you ever need to make more not to mention how easy to get them all. The essence you will need to hunt for or buy but can be done and stacked up for later use. So basicaly recall, craft premade template for weapon or armor which you found out once you made your first suit. If trying for harder mods some fails and loss resources. Pof before hand. You done for another 3-6 months? That does not make a crafter. That makes a quicky. The difference between going out with a girl for years to finaly getting her into bed or going down to the corner take out 50 dollars and have fun within the hour.

 

[chuckoatl]

I really dont see what the crying is all about. Ever since AoS, people have been crying about game balance. Now we have about a balanced game as you can get. Now your crying because its so. Make up your minds.

 

[Uvtha]

AoS items = Broken game.

Simples...

Just because of the way it was done. Its not a bad idea in general to have lots of diversity in items. It was just clearly very poorly conceived and poorly implemented.

 

[phantus]

Just because of the way it was done. Its not a bad idea in general to have lots of diversity in items. It was just clearly very poorly conceived and poorly implemented.

Winner!

 

[Freelsy]

I really dont see what the crying is all about. Ever since AoS, people have been crying about game balance. Now we have about a balanced game as you can get. Now your crying because its so. Make up your minds.

Everyone having the same items and gear is not balance...

 

[Splup]

Everyone having the same items and gear is not balance...

The thing is, UO PvP is so complicated and fast, that dedicated players get their edge from playing skills. Put one of the top 3 mages on your shard against regular PvP mage and the top 3 mage will destroy him.

Also dedicating to building the perfect template with exact right items takes whole lot of time, maybe not months of grinding but whole lot of planning and crafting still. Like when I build suits the base pieces from which I start imbuing usually need to have exact right resists, I also enhance afterwards breaking tons of pieces.

Imbuing opened doors to PvP for the players who don't have the time to spend weeks and weeks trying to get a suit in which you can compete. But still players who are willing to spend lots of time planning temps and suits, crafting, tweaking and learning to get the best out of their char can really be better then the basic PvP:r. Now you just can't become top PvP:r by putting bunch of real $$ and have 0 real PvP skills, which is how it should be.

 

[Violence]

"Now you just can't become top PvP:r by putting bunch of real $$ and have 0 real PvP skills, which is how it should be. "

Or at least, you still can and you won't have to replace it every now and then. Plus it's still going to be a wee-bit better than imbued stuff. ;O But the gap between players' items has become what it should have been.

Being against imbuing with an arguement of the likes of "Items-For-Everyone is not balanced." is like saying we should not have cheating counter-measures.. The guys who home-cooked those cheats surely spent time and effort on making them, so they should use them. And the rest of us should just die to them.

Same ol' situation as what happened with [Replica] items, same ol' style of complaining as the whole insurance thingie.

I'm really seeing a very annoying trend here, and I'm personally staying out of this and the other imbuing discussions.. rolleyes:

 

[RaistlinNowhere]

i didnt wanted this to become a war between players, and thats not the idea i wanted to tell.

People have posted about now all people have the same items, so is balanced, i wont said if thats balanced or not, but in any game theres an balanced utopia that everyone have the same items, im sorry but THAT make the GAME unbalanced. An uotpia doesnt exist and never are good.

The idea i wanted to tell is that, imbuing have make almost all game , pvm and so boring and is destroying the desire to play, cause ¿ if you can craft everything you need at max, why do we have to go pvm or go peerless and so? theres so few items that are useful after imbuing was on, that pvm now almost have no sense if its not to farming regs for imbuing.

Pvp people, im sure, will complaint of this but i must said that uo isnt only a PVP game, if there isnt pvm there wont be pvp also, both type of playing are interconnected. And a MMorpg cant live only from pvp, and we have examples out there of this.

So please, dont make this thread a problem of balancing players or not, cause the true pupuose of this is the damage that imbuing has done to the core of the uo spirit and the game, as imbuing is now.

 

[DarkScripture]

If Uo were a PvP only game, I would turn in my subscription after 12 years. I enjoy PvP and PvM about the same. I have 3 OTHER accounts for my 13-17 year old children. They do NOT PvP. That would lose that revenue as well. The Imbue has allowed me the option of gearing their accounts with items they tend to lose at an alarming rate. Not every person is able to keep these super item for a full life time. They also change their minds about HOW they play OFTEN. I personally have not been able to craft Relic fragments in many patches. I am not sure if any item can be unrav'd after it's imbued and make relics any longer. I am not sure your information is up to date.
If you are complaining due to not being able to SELL items found as loot in game then, I can sympathize, but do not agree to your solution to change Imbuing. I personally think only one in 20 monsters should EVEN DROP ANY magic items at all.
Loot should be more geared tward the type of creature that would be carrying. Like the rat men dropping wheels of cheese. THAT is the correct loot table. A rat man shaman MAY drop a magic item. More quests for magic drops. You may hunt sea serpents to get a magic peal necklace for instance while on a quest after being told this creature sank a ship carrying valuable cargo.

 

[Dermott of LS]

...

Its not a bad idea in general to have lots of diversity in items. It was just clearly very poorly conceived and poorly implemented.

This.

Although you could probably write a several hundred page book on how the system COULD have been implemented to be more in line with the way UO worked at the time (5 tiered mods, charged spell effect vs percentage chance, metal vs leather, light vs heavy armors, DI +x to damage vs +x% to damage, Should nightsight be a "boolean" mod or cumulative, caps vs diminishing returns, etc etc etc), the above statement pretty much covers it.

 

[UOKaiser]

If Uo were a PvP only game, I would turn in my subscription after 12 years. I enjoy PvP and PvM about the same. I have 3 OTHER accounts for my 13-17 year old children. They do NOT PvP. That would lose that revenue as well. The Imbue has allowed me the option of gearing their accounts with items they tend to lose at an alarming rate. Not every person is able to keep these super item for a full life time. They also change their minds about HOW they play OFTEN. I personally have not been able to craft Relic fragments in many patches. I am not sure if any item can be unrav'd after it's imbued and make relics any longer. I am not sure your information is up to date.
If you are complaining due to not being able to SELL items found as loot in game then, I can sympathize, but do not agree to your solution to change Imbuing. I personally think only one in 20 monsters should EVEN DROP ANY magic items at all.
Loot should be more geared tward the type of creature that would be carrying. Like the rat men dropping wheels of cheese. THAT is the correct loot table. A rat man shaman MAY drop a magic item. More quests for magic drops. You may hunt sea serpents to get a magic peal necklace for instance while on a quest after being told this creature sank a ship carrying valuable cargo.

You clearly havent reached your end game. Relic fragments use bronze hammers want 10 hammers look me up all free for you. As easy as pie. Best suits in game to max out all stats look me up i'll make you a imbued suit max out all free. Want to do this all your self I'll teach you how to do it in no time flat. The end game for PVm is useless. What are you going to get from any of these corpses that other than the rare item that it's not so easily available to do.

Question? what will a player do with a wheel cheese? These creatures are not hunted now why would taking things away from them make them more worth people time to actualy bother to kill there 100000ths rat man 2 years from now? Im looking at your comments in this post again. You have mis-categorised your self you are not a PVM you are what is called a role player. A role player walks around. Depending on the guild you either a vampire or orc or whatever with predefined way of doing things and really hard to understand sometimes. I suspect you are joined to one of those guilds that you can't leave character am I correct?

 

[G.v.P]

Imbuing makes getting to the bottom line easier, which means more people fighting rather than grinding. Artifacts are still important, especially Faction arties.

I can make an imbuer on a new shard w/ 50.0 skill, gain .1 from unraveling anything, then unravel essence all the way up to 200 something intensity. And, I can make 18% LRC per item and build a complete LRC suit to train stuff. Before, I had to make a stinky dexxer when starting a new shard ;P eww and buy or loot my own LRC.

AOS + SA = playable for everyone.

 

[UOKaiser]

Imbuing makes getting to the bottom line easier, which means more people fighting rather than grinding. Artifacts are still important, especially Faction arties.

I can make an imbuer on a new shard w/ 50.0 skill, gain .1 from unraveling anything, then unravel essence all the way up to 200 something intensity. And, I can make 18% LRC per item and build a complete LRC suit to train stuff. Before, I had to make a stinky dexxer when starting a new shard ;P eww and buy or loot my own LRC.

AOS + SA = playable for everyone.

No one doubts the advantage of imbuing to PVP. it's a god send to PVP because PVP goal is to defeat the opponent to out manuever and out think your foe. They don't give you anything as you can't loot them but they give you as a reward there death.

What we are saying here is in pvm because our opponent is midless,respawning and any taunts are useless to them. killing them more than once or twice becomes repetetive. They have to offer a reward for there defeat. The reward all monsters offer are nothing compare to what we can do in the confort of our own homes. PVP and PVM are on complete opposite side of the spectrum we kill our opponents for much different reasons and opponents in pvp kill us for completely different reasons but opponents in pvm kill us cause there programed to.

 

[DarkScripture]

You clearly havent reached your end game. Relic fragments use bronze hammers want 10 hammers look me up all free for you. As easy as pie. Best suits in game to max out all stats look me up i'll make you a imbued suit max out all free. Want to do this all your self I'll teach you how to do it in no time flat. The end game for PVm is useless. What are you going to get from any of these corpses that other than the rare item that it's not so easily available to do.

Question? what will a player do with a wheel cheese? These creatures are not hunted now why would taking things away from them make them more worth people time to actually bother to kill there 100000ths rat man 2 years from now? Im looking at your comments in this post again. You have mis-categorised your self you are not a PVM you are what is called a role player. A role player walks around. Depending on the guild you either a vampire or orc or whatever with predefined way of doing things and really hard to understand sometimes. I suspect you are joined to one of those guilds that you can't leave character am I correct?

I think you mis-read my intent. I am not a role player so much as a collector now. I wish there were MUCH less magic item dropping as loot, Much more SPECIFIC loot. That was my example for the wheel of cheese. I don't want cheese! But if I wanted a Rat Man Shaman cap (if there were such a thing) it would come from this creature ONLY. As far as end game you think due to my opinions and my disagreement with you, I am a novice and do not hunt the larger creatures or rather if I am not PvP-ing then you may discount me altogether?? I do like the implementation of the deco item being specific drops on the new SA champs. I think ALL loot table should follow suit. I just do not agree that the average player can max 120 imbue in 2 days. The skill is VERY costly to train. I have 120 imbue so again you assume much and fire off that I don't play like you so I have no idea what I am talking about. Why must there be a nerf for everyone due to only a Very few PvP'r. If I were a 100% PvP'r I still have family that cares NOTHING for it. I realize I AM NOT THE ONLY PERSON PLAYING THIS GAME. I think you should come to the same conclusion.

 

[UOKaiser]

I think you mis-read my intent. I am not a role player so much as a collector now. I wish there were MUCH less magic item dropping as loot, Much more SPECIFIC loot. That was my example for the wheel of cheese. I don't want cheese! But if I wanted a Rat Man Shaman cap (if there were such a thing) it would come from this creature ONLY. As far as end game you think due to my opinions and my disagreement with you, I am a novice and do not hunt the larger creatures or rather if I am not PvP-ing then you may discount me altogether?? I do like the implementation of the deco item being specific drops on the new SA champs. I think ALL loot table should follow suit. I just do not agree that the average player can max 120 imbue in 2 days. The skill is VERY costly to train. I have 120 imbue so again you assume much and fire off that I don't play like you so I have no idea what I am talking about. Why must there be a nerf for everyone due to only a Very few PvP'r. If I were a 100% PvP'r I still have family that cares NOTHING for it. I realize I AM NOT THE ONLY PERSON PLAYING THIS GAME. I think you should come to the same conclusion.

I don't want a nerf. Not at all. i want a increase. Look at a previous post of mines on how to immensely incease the vlaue of pvm and crafting while keeping imbuing exactly the same. You have to remmebr why you hunt. After you kill any creature 10k times why do you want to kill it 10001 times? We all know you can do it. You know you can do it. The reason to kill that creature is for the chance to get something you can't get any easier way. These monsters are not going no where and UO doesn't have the resources to continue to pop up new monsters with art work and skills monthly to keep people busy. You need the repetitive system and you need a reason to repeat that system.

 

[G.v.P]

The reward all monsters offer are nothing compare to what we can do in the confort of our own homes.

I don't understand the correlation. Everything you need to get in order to imbue something comes off a monster, the ground, or from mining or lumberjacking. That's a majority of PvM. Every essence you get is one tenth of a 100% mod waiting to happen. Even if a Mongbat gave the same quality items you could make with imbuing, why would you rather wait out for the RNG to roll the right mods for you when you can just collect whats needed and get the exact thing that would work?

As far as true PvM goes, every mini-spawn gives special resources and a chance at an artifact when you kill the mini-spawn boss. I've only gotten the Basilisk chest, but it is pretty dope looking and instantly usable. Artifacts from the Gauntlet, such as the AOF or the Orny, are still used heavily, while the majority of the arties that no one uses were useless since before imbuing. The regular loot off of the Dark Father often will make relics (and some roll higher than 500 intensity). Hair dyes from Lady Melisande aren't something you can imbue. Can't imbue +Lumberjack to an item like Lady M's hatchet. Can't imbue instruments at all, and can't craft a Dread Flute either. Can't get rare mounts and pets from doing crafting at your house, unless you do chicken coops, and they aren't really the same as getting a Paroxy Swamp Dragon, or an Albino Squirrel, or a Bedlam mare (forget their name).

I could pretty much go on forever on what you can get from PvM you can't get from your house, lol. PvM to me is Peerless, Champions, and Strong Box quests. Anyone who expects quality off of anything else, before or after imbuing, is out of there mind. Before imbuing regular PvM wasn't viable either. Runic hammers and barbed kits were the way to go. So I just don't understand the investment, and why imbuing needs to be nerfed to make regular PvM more ... viable? *Shrugs.*

Imbuing only allows 500% intensity. PvM can allow for higher modded items than you can imbue. If you fight the right thing, you can get better items from PvM. Also, imbuing can't happen without someone PvMing, lol.

 

[UOKaiser]

I don't understand the correlation. Everything you need to get in order to imbue something comes off a monster, the ground, or from mining or lumberjacking. That's a majority of PvM. Every essence you get is one tenth of a 100% mod waiting to happen. Even if a Mongbat gave the same quality items you could make with imbuing, why would you rather wait out for the RNG to roll the right mods for you when you can just collect whats needed and get the exact thing that would work?

As far as true PvM goes, every mini-spawn gives special resources and a chance at an artifact when you kill the mini-spawn boss. I've only gotten the Basilisk chest, but it is pretty dope looking and instantly usable. Artifacts from the Gauntlet, such as the AOF or the Orny, are still used heavily, while the majority of the arties that no one uses were useless since before imbuing. The regular loot off of the Dark Father often will make relics (and some roll higher than 500 intensity). Hair dyes from Lady Melisande aren't something you can imbue. Can't imbue +Lumberjack to an item like Lady M's hatchet. Can't imbue instruments at all, and can't craft a Dread Flute either. Can't get rare mounts and pets from doing crafting at your house, unless you do chicken coops, and they aren't really the same as getting a Paroxy Swamp Dragon, or an Albino Squirrel, or a Bedlam mare (forget their name).

I could pretty much go on forever on what you can get from PvM you can't get from your house, lol. PvM to me is Peerless, Champions, and Strong Box quests. Anyone who expects quality off of anything else, before or after imbuing, is out of there mind. Before imbuing regular PvM wasn't viable either. Runic hammers and barbed kits were the way to go. So I just don't understand the investment, and why imbuing needs to be nerfed to make regular PvM more ... viable? *Shrugs.*

The reason goes to the fact what are you going to do with it once you get it. Assuming you play in test center only and don't pvp. Is this worth the money you spend monthly on the game? items are not meant to be gotten easily. the makers of imbuing did not intend this they thought relic fragments were going to be rare and difficult to get. They were wrong and they tried to correct it everytime someone mention a easy way to obtain them but they could not stop it. The system they intended got screwed.

Before imbuing low end monsters werent used but people where still taking turns on high end monsters. getting a gold and up hammer is much harder and almost impossible to get the desire mods compared to imbuing a perfect weapon at 500 intensity quality. The monster loot is not needed and the materials are easily attained by buying from venders who uses runics and other methods to get the materials in bulk.

 

[G.v.P]

The reason goes to the fact what are you going to do with it once you get it. Assuming you play in test center only and don't pvp.

??? test center? lol you totally lost me bro.

I added a bit more to last post after you responded; to me, PvM is still viable, for many reasons, and it's the only way you can imbue unless you intend to buy everything from others (in which case why not just buy the finished product instead). And as far as what the devs intended, I don't know. Val hammers were supposed to be rare until people duped them and scripted bods, so who knows what the devs expected. But I'd rather be able to make exactly what I want than wait for the game to roll it for me .

 

[Dermott of LS]

...

Gotta agree with G.v.P here. For me I've seen more use for loot AFTER SA than before it, but that's because my mindset about loot changed when BODs were changed so that when you turned one in you could get another one immediately.

So aside from special drops (artifacts, etc), loot for me changed from looking for any specific mod combinations to simply grabbing all of a certain type (metal items for BODs, 2 stone or less in weight for imbuing (mostly jewelry)). Because I treat PvM loot as mainly a resource, I end up looting a LOT more than if I were going to try and play the mod roulette game.

And really, artifacts and special items have done pretty well in defeating the purpose of general magic item loot in themselves LONG before SA came around (well, aside from armor for the Arms slot... NOTHING good has come out yet as a single item for them).

PvM loot doesn't seem good enough? Think differently about it.

PvM loot is now either a resource or a "base model".

 

[UOKaiser]

??? test center? lol you totally lost me bro.

I added a bit more to last post after you responded; to me, PvM is still viable, for many reasons, and it's the only way you can imbue unless you intend to buy everything from others (in which case why not just buy the finished product instead). And as far as what the devs intended, I don't know. Val hammers were supposed to be rare until people duped them and scripted bods, so who knows what the devs expected. But I'd rather be able to make exactly what I want than wait for the game to roll it for me .

What I mean from test center is that in test center you can get the end result without any effort or time put in. This is a PVP dream situation. You get the items you need to PVP with and develope your perfect character so you can compete with other perfect characters in there perfected suits. Test center is actually the perfect place to PVP. Nobody has more or less than anybody else. But if a player doesn't pvp and is a trammel type player this means nothing to them. The end result is the end game for trammel players not the beggining of the game if they were PVP players. The game itself for trammel players and what keeps them paying money to UO is the quest to make it to the end game. to continue to aquire better items,better skill,more gold,bigger homes,make better items. This is the quest for trammel players and the reson to play the game not the end result of these things. This in turn varies completely against PVP players way of playing as all this effort is a waste of time cause what they want is the end game of a trammel player so that they can beggine there foever continouse game of killing there opponents. So as PVP players love imbuing able to reach the end game of suit building easily. Trammel players end up in the end game of there play very quickly and as after this all they can do with these items is PVP with and they don't PVP they grow bored.

Imbuing is great and would of being a worthy system if implemented right or of beggining of UO. But the system was implemented with irreversable mistakes and to a existing system of vets. New players have never kept UO running. Only the vets that continue paying since the begginig has kept UO running. Vets in turn have the knowledge and the resources to aquire everything quickly. What once was a life long obssesion in locating the perfect item to increase your power to locate more perfect items to increase your power to repeat has now become a end system which you cannot locate more powerful items than what you have. you cannot improve your characters beyond the built in caps and the search has ended. This can easily be confirmed if they check with accounting to see the percentage of rate sub decrease this year compare to previous years. They should see a spike of subscriptions of the first quarter after SA release with a major over all decline in sub that is above the usual quarter decreases.

 

[UOKaiser]

...

Gotta agree with G.v.P here. For me I've seen more use for loot AFTER SA than before it, but that's because my mindset about loot changed when BODs were changed so that when you turned one in you could get another one immediately.

So aside from special drops (artifacts, etc), loot for me changed from looking for any specific mod combinations to simply grabbing all of a certain type (metal items for BODs, 2 stone or less in weight for imbuing (mostly jewelry)). Because I treat PvM loot as mainly a resource, I end up looting a LOT more than if I were going to try and play the mod roulette game.

And really, artifacts and special items have done pretty well in defeating the purpose of general magic item loot in themselves LONG before SA came around (well, aside from armor for the Arms slot... NOTHING good has come out yet as a single item for them).

PvM loot doesn't seem good enough? Think differently about it.

PvM loot is now either a resource or a "base model".

That part is the problem it was meant to be a resource or base model when first implemented. But they could never imagine how abundent the rare resources and all these resources were aquired. This in turn made PVM truly the last option to aquire such resources. There are other more efficient and much more faster ways to receive these resources than to hunt for them.

 

[Percivalgoh]

Time to gain skill only need to be done once,2 days i did it when it first came out. I beleive it's easier now correct?. So once your 120 you don't need to continue to gain skill. 2 days it takes for power gamer. Longer for the casual gamer but once it's done it's done never again you need to do it. Gather resources buy from vender done. If only imbue for yourself you can have many resources over time stocked up on your home before you ever need to make more not to mention how easy to get them all. The essence you will need to hunt for or buy but can be done and stacked up for later use. So basicaly recall, craft premade template for weapon or armor which you found out once you made your first suit. If trying for harder mods some fails and loss resources. Pof before hand. You done for another 3-6 months? That does not make a crafter. That makes a quicky. The difference between going out with a girl for years to finaly getting her into bed or going down to the corner take out 50 dollars and have fun within the hour.

It's similar to spending a year to get the $50 dollars to pay for the hour of good time

 

[Violence]

Let me just add that either your problem isn't imbuing, but you can't word that properly at the same time(so personally I'm not sure whether you want to argue lost community spirit or why you're bored of the game).. Or it is, and you're going in circles side-tracking while trying to push for your personal opinion as if it were something major, yet having nothing to back it up except your own taste.. Which is okay, just like imbuing is really.

It may have issues which I as a PVPer fail to see, but nowhere near the levels you're talking about for sure. Nowhere near enough to call for a nerf just yet. rolleyes: