I thought the spawn cams had been dealt with...

[Thav12]

I cave. All true. Mostly just frustrating. It comes down to time. I love pvp, but like with all of UO: winning comes at the expense of real-life time. Over 11 years I have already put in a lot, but certainly not as much as some of the winners that are beating me at 9 am on my one day off a week. Frustrations. Frustrations. But I agree, no real changes needed. Just one request: don't call me a noob when you Rez kill me. That gets old after 11 years.

 

[Llewen]

I cave. All true. Mostly just frustrating. It comes down to time. I love pvp, but like with all of UO: winning comes at the expense of real-life time. Over 11 years I have already put in a lot, but certainly not as much as some of the winners that are beating me at 9 am on my one day off a week. Frustrations. Frustrations. But I agree, no real changes needed. Just one request: don't call me a noob when you Rez kill me. That gets old after 11 years.

I hear ya, but it is so sweet when things finally do go your way, and they will eventually. I find my luck runs in streaks in UO, with absolutely everything. I'll do really well for a few days, then get stomped for a few, and so on. Just don't give up, and use your head.

Oh, and nerd seeking missiles can be helpful...

 

[Nexus]

Oh yes, if they are doing it legitimately, kudos to them. It's annoying, but you get bonus points for annoying your enemies in this game.

It also serves a very legitimate purpose besides scouting spawns for raiders. How would you like it if my thief just walked up to you at Coon and asked politely "Mind if I hang out? I would like a chance to steal the best of you and your friends scrolls if you don't mind."

Limiting stealthers at spawns would be yet another nail in the coffin of the PvP Thief....

 

[Splup]

I have 0 beef with ppl using stealthers to check on spawns. But I do have beef with smokebombs... I mean disappearing from screen right on open field next to a guys who is attacking you is just bs.

 

[Gal]

I don't have beef with smoke bombers, some people turned using it in to an art, but if you can't catch them after they used the smoke bomb its your own fault.
It takes a person 150 skill points to use them and they have a timer. Don't get me wrong it can get annoying to fight some one that keeps using them but if you know how to counter it, it's all good.
Whenever you see some one that you know is a smoke bomber just get him tracked with Joat when hes seen, that way even after he uses them you know where he is. as a warrior I normally bleed those smoke bombers before I do any real damage and then when they smoke bomb they get revealed. as a mage I just spam meteor which shows you their position and some times reveals them as well. it isn't 100% proof but its ok... The only thing I can think of in terms of change to smoke bomb is maybe rising the fail rath of stealthing around after using one, that way it takes more skill points using them because you need higher stealth to move around without revealing and will give you a better chance getting your target after he uses one because he might fail the stealth check.

 

[Llewen]

Limiting stealthers at spawns would be yet another nail in the coffin of the PvP Thief....

Ya, spawns are the last place where a thief really has a purpose in game, well that and stealing arties. So as I've said, I don't have any problem at all with stealthers at spawns.

 

[dukarlo]

If one finishes a spawn solo they should consider themselves fortunate rather than be disapointed when they get raided.. Making a template to solo spawns isnt much of a challenge once the character is made and you solo one a couple times the spawn itself is like any other pvm. Its rinse and repeat. The difference between champ pvm and trammel pvm is that the human element actually comes into play. I spend the vast majority of my time either scouting or waiting for reports of guildies that are scouting. Spawn pvp is probably the only reason I still play UO.

Faction pvp is mostly people running at all cost to avoid stat. Get a faction 3v3 and if 1 player goes down the side with 2 left tend to run for the hills at really fast speeds. Base pvp is all pets and bagballed chokes. Gate pvp is lots of hiders and blues waiting from a guard zone to jump on someone thats already engaged in a fight. Be prepared to chase people endlessly at the gate.Idoc pvp tends to be househiders,stealthers and or guardzone running.
Spawn pvp has uses for just about every template in the game. Bards for discording champs, peacing for enemy pets, spellweavers for winds, archers for offense and dismounts, tamers for chokes,champ killing and aggravation, mages for syncs,x heals and controlling the battle field, stealthers for scouting, disrupting res points etc. Thieves altho completely butchered at champ spawns at least have a chance at a stealable item. The bottom line is champ spawns are the last bit of good pvp in UO and that is why they are so heavily scouted. Its not ghost cams. Its dedicated raiders looking for that big great fight that still keeps them playing UO. Unfortunately these kinds of fights are getting rarer and rarer.

There is no advantage to running away time and time again like a little girl at a champ. If you want to win the battle you have to stay and fight. Too often nowadays pvp is about "not dieing" as opposed to actually standing and fighting. There are no guard zones(for the most part) and no houses to run into. If its monsters you wanna kill be prepared to defend your spawn or else pvm in Trammel.

 

[Llewen]

The bottom line is champ spawns are the last bit of good pvp in UO and that is why they are so heavily scouted. Its not ghost cams. Its dedicated raiders looking for that big great fight that still keeps them playing UO. Unfortunately these kinds of fights are getting rarer and rarer.

There's a lot of truth in your post, all of it, not just the part I quoted. Unfortunately, I think it paints a bit of a rosy picture of what goes on at champ spawns. I agree, spawns are the last "real" pvp left in UO, but I think you'd be naive not to recognize that there are many who will take any advantage they can get, legitimate or otherwise.

As for spawn cams, I know that the ghost cams don't work anymore, that has been the case for years, but I'd be surprised if all forms of scripted cams are entirely gone. However, I'm not that experienced with spawns, and many who are clearly far more experienced than I am think that they are so their opinions should hold more weight than mine. Let's hope they are right.

 

[Thav12]

If one finishes a spawn solo they should consider themselves fortunate rather than be disapointed when they get raided.. Making a template to solo spawns isnt much of a challenge once the character is made and you solo one a couple times the spawn itself is like any other pvm. Its rinse and repeat. The difference between champ pvm and trammel pvm is that the human element actually comes into play. I spend the vast majority of my time either scouting or waiting for reports of guildies that are scouting. Spawn pvp is probably the only reason I still play UO.

Faction pvp is mostly people running at all cost to avoid stat. Get a faction 3v3 and if 1 player goes down the side with 2 left tend to run for the hills at really fast speeds. Base pvp is all pets and bagballed chokes. Gate pvp is lots of hiders and blues waiting from a guard zone to jump on someone thats already engaged in a fight. Be prepared to chase people endlessly at the gate.Idoc pvp tends to be househiders,stealthers and or guardzone running.
Spawn pvp has uses for just about every template in the game. Bards for discording champs, peacing for enemy pets, spellweavers for winds, archers for offense and dismounts, tamers for chokes,champ killing and aggravation, mages for syncs,x heals and controlling the battle field, stealthers for scouting, disrupting res points etc. Thieves altho completely butchered at champ spawns at least have a chance at a stealable item. The bottom line is champ spawns are the last bit of good pvp in UO and that is why they are so heavily scouted. Its not ghost cams. Its dedicated raiders looking for that big great fight that still keeps them playing UO. Unfortunately these kinds of fights are getting rarer and rarer.

There is no advantage to running away time and time again like a little girl at a champ. If you want to win the battle you have to stay and fight. Too often nowadays pvp is about "not dieing" as opposed to actually standing and fighting. There are no guard zones(for the most part) and no houses to run into. If its monsters you wanna kill be prepared to defend your spawn or else pvm in Trammel.

I don't think anyone, including me is arguing any of the above. The frustrating part is not that you can be attacked and should expect to be attacked. The frustrating part is that the "fair game" ideal you are describing is more of a "duck shoot" for most part. Regardless of whether you do it alone or not, the numbers and variations in skill templates required to beat a champ spawn are usually not sufficient to actually defend yourself to highly specialized raiders. Now, of course, you could accrue a group of players large enough to do so, and have an army of Mystic mage, stealth dismount archers, and dreadmare mages to your disposal and in your ideal world epic matches will ensue. But the reality is that on most shards outside of peak hours, those numbers in people do not exist. What is left is three full time, bored guys harrassing the few people interested in spawns (and PvP) because the attackers' advantage is so great. Again, I don't dissagree that PvP and sandbox are the two main reasons UO is so phenomenal, but the down side of it is also its greatest downfall: opportunity to just destroy other peoples fun without repercussion. It is the age old dilemma in UO and the main reason why everyone else plays WoW and such. Don't get me wrong, I am still playing UO after all these years. My mindset is probably scaringly similar to most people that take the time to write here on uo.stratics...

However, apart from saying adjust or don't come there anymore, I am voicing an opinion to perhaps change the risk benefit ratio of the spawners so that more people would be attracted to PVP-spawning. That ultimately helps the raiders also, because as I pointed out, their numbers are often too low and their templates lack specialization to complete a spawn on their own... and on top of that, they don't show up to the spawn unless I am there trying to do the spawn. It is a catch-22 kind of situation.

 

[Gellor]

Champs are supposed to be a challenge and in terms of templates and numbers, it is a catch 22. In my experience, I've seen the following:

• Small numbers doing a champ. Usually means the champ is done slowly and VERY likely to be scouted and raided. But everyone doing the champ gets a reward.
• Mid numbers doing a champ. Usually means a reasonable time to get done and smaller time to be scouted and raided. Sometimes everyone gets a reward.
• Large numbers doing a champ. Usually means champ is done before it gets scouted. Not everyone gets a reward.
• Specialized champ templates. Usually means "instant" death to the raiders. But also means quickly dead champ. Think discorders, SDI stacked mage/necro templates.
• "Generic" templates. With numbers, can often successfully defend a champ. But means slower champ time.
• Specialized "PvP" templates. Usually means "quick" death to others. But means slow spawn death.

An organized PvM champing guild would see how often a raid guild checks spawns and then start spawning between checks with a good number of specialized champ killing templates. If you can get a champ completed in 5-10 minutes, your odds of getting out go up.

On smoke bombs, it is "easy" to counter act them... mana drain or vamp and the stealther can't use a smoke bomb.

 

[Thav12]

That was a thoughtful analysis, and I agree with it entirely.


Why would my suggestion to incentivize doing the spawn not help in swinging the pendulum just a tad towards more people wanting to take on the risk of being raided. I mean, it matters none how many people do the spawn, the total and maximu reward remains the same. Raiders still get all of the reward for killing off the spawners. Me, myself and I doing a spawn may get lucky once every blue moon and get 12 scrolls and a taming sot. But all the other times I start the viscious cycle of self destruction by doin a champ and die to raiders a t the last moment I still have a slight chance of coming away with some kind of a chance of a real reward. Making it less about solo spawning: the same holds true for small groups. And like I said before, most of the time only small groups are available and with small spawn groups the advantage clearly lies with the raiders, as you eloquently pointed out. So, I suggest no changes to upset anything. Just a small change to get more action going at spawns.

 

[blakew]

a couple of times I thought I got replica/s upon rezzing, I must be mistaken then.

i died right before a harrower went down and got +25 stas scroll when i rezzed it was in my pack