Tie Control Slots to Taming Skills

[maroite]

I'm not sure I'm understanding you.
It sounds like you're all for this idea because it will affect your game play in a good way but you're miffed at people complaining about the idea because it will affect their game play in a bad way.

HUH? Talk about a double standard!

And by the way, what is a nerf tamer?

Personally I don't think extra stable slots is a passive thing. I use different pets for different things.
I use a greater dragon about 25% of the time.
A mare/rune beetle 30% of the time.
Two fire steeds about 5% of the time (when I'm feeling silly).
A white wyrm/bake about 10% of the time.
A Cu about 15% of the time.
And a pack of 5 frenzies about 15% of the time.

That's 13 slots right there leaving me one empty slot (three with SA expansion) should I find something nice. So having 120 in all three taming skill has its rewards.

Double standard. Uh huh...

Double Standard is crying about how tamers are overpowered in PvP and then when an actual tamer makes a suggestion for a fix(nerf), you cry about how it will affect your non tamer characters and how its not fair to you. . .

Yeah... this community baffles me sometimes.

Stable slots are passive because even if you have all of those slots, you're not able to use the pets at the same time, thus its a passive buff and doesn't directly affect game play. Not to mention the concept of stable slots is old and out dated. There really isn't a reason why there should be a "cap" on stable slots imho. Just another ploy for EA to make money. "Come buy a stable slot upgrade! $9.99 for 2 extra slots!" ...

 

[maroite]

Simple:

Number of summons should be tied only to mage skills. If you have 360 points in Magery (or similar), Eval, and Med...then you should have 6 summon slots (2 for each 120). Same with taming. If you want to run a template that has 120 taming, 120 lore, 120 Magery, 120 Eval...you would get 4/4. But under this idea, no one could get 6/6. Jewels don't count...remember?

It's ridiculous that a mage can't ride a horse and summon 2 demons. Summoned demons pretty much suck and get dispelled anyway.

... You're still at that 6 slot thing?...

Yeah, tell you what, elf and humans can have 6/6 and Gargs should get 7/7.

 

[Gidge]

Originally Posted by Llewen View Post
As far as the summons limitations, I'm thinking the applicable skills would be mysticism, imbuing, spellweaving, magery, evaluate int, necromancy, spirit speak, meditation, inscription, alchemy, and maybe focus. So it would be a lot easier to reach the five slot limit for summons, although it would still be challenging for "pure" mystics, if there is such a thing.

What about smithing, mining, lumber jackers, bow crafters? What about those of us who want to ride a horse and use a beetle or ride a fire beetle? and use a pack horse? Not everyone is 3 years and up, or has access to a charger of the fallen.

no.

Please don't forget how difficult it can be to lug around stuff when you are new working characters. just because you have completed all the journeys, does not mean others have done so.


Whatever your hidden agenda is to trying to control others via how many slots they have, it will affect many players unnecessarily.

 

[Stupid Miner]

It's ridiculous that a mage can't ride a horse and summon 2 demons. Summoned demons pretty much suck and get dispelled anyway.

Oh sure, not saying a lot of the creatures aren't in need of a complete overhaul to begin with. But they don't need to add another degree of complication to it too.

 

[Llewen]

Whatever your hidden agenda is to trying to control others via how many slots they have, it will affect many players unnecessarily.

No hidden agenda. I already posted the reasons why I think this was a good idea - more than once I think. hmmmm, control, so much is about control isn't it...

 

[maroite]

What about smithing, mining, lumber jackers, bow crafters? What about those of us who want to ride a horse and use a beetle or ride a fire beetle? and use a pack horse? Not everyone is 3 years and up, or has access to a charger of the fallen.

no.

Please don't forget how difficult it can be to lug around stuff when you are new working characters. just because you have completed all the journeys, does not mean others have done so.


Whatever your hidden agenda is to trying to control others via how many slots they have, it will affect many players unnecessarily.

You still have three slots with no taming skills, and it would be simple enough to just adjust the beetles to be 1 slot.

So you could still have a fire beetle and packie.

It amuses me that a tamer, suggests a nerf to tamers which could possibly fix pvp templates that don't use vet and all of the pvpers who want nerfs for tamers come out of the wood work and cry foul because the proposed nerf would also affect their poor little mules...

 

[Gidge]

You still have three slots with no taming skills, and it would be simple enough to just adjust the beetles to be 1 slot.

So you could still have a fire beetle and packie.

It amuses me that a tamer, suggests a nerf to tamers which could possibly fix pvp templates that don't use vet and all of the pvpers who want nerfs for tamers come out of the wood work and cry foul because the proposed nerf would also affect their poor little mules...

i am neither a tamer or a full time crafter, nor a pvp'er so that blows your theory. took me since 97 till now to gm a tailor.

i understand this is a thread that is tossing out thoughts and idea.

i just happen to have my own thoughts.

 

[Lord Frodo]

So lower the point cost of each.

The idea has merit, however, I would suggest the following changes:

(real skill refers to skill BEFORE jewelry)

0-60 skill total- 2 control slots (make all crafting animals 1 slot each)
61-150 skill total - 3 control slots
151-200 skill total - 4 control slots
201-359 skill total - 5 control slots (just like we have now)
360 skill total - 6 control slots

Real tamers deserve something that those that are 'faking the funk' don't get.

Then this should be done with all skills, not just taming. What is the difference of a jeweled up warrior (120) and a true 120 warrior, none. Same with a mage or any other temp.

 

[Lord Frodo]

Double standard. Uh huh...

Double Standard is crying about how tamers are overpowered in PvP and then when an actual tamer makes a suggestion for a fix(nerf), you cry about how it will affect your non tamer characters and how its not fair to you. . .

Yeah... this community baffles me sometimes.

How is this fixing a nerf? Are they gonna put GDs back the way they were? NO they are not. Give everybody 5 slots (0-100 taming) any thing above GM should have more slots. A full 120 Tamer should be able to control more then a GM tamer.

I just love all these nerf the tamer threads when it is by far the hardest skill to train and when you get there all people want to do is NEFR NERF NERF.

 

[Morgana LeFay (PoV)]

But they don't need to add another degree of complication to it too.

Are you ***king kidding me? With AoS in place, you are telling me that players cannot add 2+2+2??



Meanwhile, I need to write an excel formula just to figure out if I should buy a new shield or not...

rolleyes:

 

[Stupid Miner]

Are you ***king kidding me? With AoS in place, you are telling me that players cannot add 2+2+2??



Meanwhile, I need to write an excel formula just to figure out if I should buy a new shield or not...

rolleyes:

I'm saying a tamer with 2 dreadmares would be pretty stupid. Or a dreadmare and a rune beetle. Or two rune beetles. Or 3 Bake Kitsunes.

 

[Llewen]

I'm saying a tamer with 2 dreadmares would be pretty stupid. Or a dreadmare and a rune beetle. Or two rune beetles. Or 3 Bake Kitsunes.

Well it actually sounds worse than it is. I'm not necessarily in favour of the idea of a sixth slot but those combinations on a character that has 360 points in real skills in taming isn't as bad as it sounds. It would be pretty challenging to put together a strong pvp template with 360 real skill points in taming.

 

[Vertigo]

So my Mystic needs taming just to cast rc?
No thanks.

 

[Llewen]

So my Mystic needs taming just to cast rc?
No thanks.

Well, that's an interesting question. You could make similar rules for magery and summons, ie. everyone can control three slots worth of summons, and you would need 200 points in magery skills to control four and 300 to control five, but it quickly becomes complicated when you start mixing summons and pets.

Perhaps if you are mixing then you take the highest limit between the two, but the lower can't exceed it's limits either. ie. If you have 100 point in magery and 300 points in taming you can control five slots worth of pets and summons combined, but no more than three of them can be summoned.

As far as the summons limitations, I'm thinking the applicable skills would be mysticism, imbuing, spellweaving, magery, evaluate int, necromancy, spirit speak, meditation, inscription, alchemy, and maybe focus. So it would be a lot easier to reach the five slot limit for summons, although it would still be challenging for "pure" mystics, if there is such a thing.

I believe I already addressed that.

You would be able to use rc with 300 real points in, for example, mysticism, imbuing or focus, and meditation, or mysticism, imbuing or focus and magery, etc.

 

[Wenchkin]

I think simplicity is the best solution if you want real skill to make a difference to a tamer and you want that change made. Real skill only counted in pet control or even just in bonding pets that aren't "ownable by anyone". I'm sure that's easier than coding in all the exceptions to control slots then having to answer the inevitable questions about how it works.

I think if we throw too many calculations at new tamers, they're going to take longer to get going and won't understand how it all works. Like if I can control these pets, why can't I take them out? I find myself doing calculations all the time and it just annoys me.

One criticism I have of EA with pets released this past few years - you can't just know how skill and stat caps work, you have to memorise the growing list of pets that are exceptions to the old "rules". I don't think taming is better for that, it just means when you reply to a question your response stretches over 5 paragraphs and not 1 sentence. I feel a bit the same here. It's not going to be more fun, just another figure to keep in your head when you go to do something.

I think if you can control it, you should be able to use it. Anyone who wants to use a pack of frenzies instead of a GD would get a hug from me tbh, I love seeing players take packs instead of following the crowd. Fun pets and silly low skilled templates shouldn't drop a players control slots IMO. I'd rather that bonding and ideally control required real skill if there was a choice

And deffo no to 6 control slots, 5 is quite enough heh.

Wenchy

 

[Llewen]

I think simplicity is the best solution if you want real skill to make a difference to a tamer and you want that change made. Real skill only counted in pet control or even just in bonding pets that aren't "ownable by anyone". I'm sure that's easier than coding in all the exceptions to control slots then having to answer the inevitable questions about how it works.

Well that's the fly in the ointment right there. I love complexity, but I know many don't, and it does make it harder on new players.

 

[Yalp]

So to take 1 step back from this issue.. to make it more global..

Pure templates.

Pure tamer templates to either control the most powerful pets , or to use more of the most powerful pets?

Don't stop at tamers.

Pure archers.
Pure Necros.
Pure Dexers.
Pure Mages.
Pure ....

 

[Tina Small]

Llewen, I didn't read everything in the thread. But my first thought was that you forgot about bouras. They're great pets for new tamers. However, even the lowest-level boura still takes up 2 slots. And to actually do enough damage to kill monsters that give decent amounts of gold, you really should be able to control two of them. If you want to have one of the bouras be a high plains boura, now you're up to 5 slots. And since it's virtually impossible these days for new characters to buy things like power and stat scrolls without scraping together multiple millions in gold, I think it would be a bad bad idea to kill off the ability for new tamers to use a pair of bouras or any other combination of pets that require less than GM skill to control. If you could still go out and actually find power scrolls at the 110 or 115 level for reasonable amounts of gold or stat scrolls at lower than the +25 level, maybe scaling control slots for tamers MIGHT make sense. But because of scroll binders and the unbelievable greed in the game these days, I don't think now is the time to put such a significant nerf on any character template, no matter how much the PvPers despise it.

As others have pointed out, your suggestion also penalizes crafters. I don't often mine with my fire beetle and two pack animals in tow, but once in a while I do use one pack animal (e.g., I'm gathering granite). Wouldn't be able to do that under the rules you laid out because my miners have none of the skills tamers have.

If the real problem is pets in PvP, I think a better solution is to work with the developers on fine-tuning the use of pets in PvP. I really don't see the point in in penalizing everyone in the game to address a PvP issue.

 

[Stupid Miner]

Well it actually sounds worse than it is. I'm not necessarily in favour of the idea of a sixth slot but those combinations on a character that has 360 points in real skills in taming isn't as bad as it sounds. It would be pretty challenging to put together a strong pvp template with 360 real skill points in taming.

Hm... why is 360 real skill such an equalizer. Skill increase jewelry.

Difference real skill and +skill items? Switch the skills that are on the jewelry. Have real taming and fake everything else.

And how long it takes to get to 120 Taming isn't much of a detriment... they're just going to script it anyway.

 

[Llewen]

Hm... why is 360 real skill such an equalizer. Skill increase jewelry.

Difference real skill and +skill items? Switch the skills that are on the jewelry. Have real taming and fake everything else.

And how long it takes to get to 120 Taming isn't much of a detriment... they're just going to script it anyway.

Well, I know most pvp tamer templates have something like 220 points in taming related skills, and even my template, which is not a "standard" pvp tamer template, only has 320 points total in taming related skills, including jewelry. I realize you can just change which skills are "real" and which depend on jewels, but it isn't as simple as it sounds.

My template is a fairly simple tamer/mage template with some chiv added, and even with only 320 points in taming I only manage 20 meditation (he's an elf). So I really think a 360 real skill point requirement would prevent the use of six slots with a "gimped" pvp tamer template.