• Hail Guest!
    We're looking for Community Content Contribuitors to Stratics. If you would like to write articles, fan fiction, do guild or shard event recaps, it's simple. Find out how in this thread: Community Contributions
  • Greetings Guest, Having Login Issues? Check this thread!
  • Hail Guest!,
    Please take a moment to read this post reminding you all of the importance of Account Security.
  • Hail Guest!
    Please read the new announcement concerning the upcoming addition to Stratics. You can find the announcement Here!

What has imbueing done to magic item market?

D

Death Adder

Guest
"This is a problem. You are self independent and doesn't look like you need the services of others. There is this proffesion called botanist you see and all they do in the game is grow many many plants. There even is a botanist forum. They have only one thing they can really use to make gold right now and thats seeds of renewal. You see when you kill monsters in the abyss they drop these things called essences and maybe a little shiny thing called gold. Gold is used to trade for products you need and botanist use the gold to buy things they need. Now essences that you don't need are placed in a vender. 10 of each essence is about 250k. So instead of hunting for these seeds go out and hunt for these essense of whatever. Then you drop these essenses and someone that was hunting something and sold what they didn't need comes buy and gives you shiny gold for the stuff you hunted and don't need. Now here comes the great part you use these shiny things and you give it to this botanist that has so many seeds of renewal that you need and he has so much of. Ta DA botanist paid for there work, you got what you wanted by hunting and the other guy got what he wanted from hunting something else. Now this continues down the line and up the line and soon everyone is happy and everyone got what they wanted doing exactly what they wanted to do in game. Result=Happy UO The end..."
.
I've literally bought 400-500 seeds over the last couple of months, dropping probably 80 to 100 million in gold (I'm trying for the "perfect" wood suit so I've broken many dozens of pieces for the 2 pieces I have that didn't break -- still need 2 more pieces to finish suit). I financed them through my vendor mall and selling stuff. I also do plants. So it's not like I live this cloistered existence and refuse to trade. Frankly there are not enough seeds for sale on Chessy (except for the ones selling for more than 2 mil per 10 which I refuse to buy), which is why I'm doing rat spawns over and over and over.
 

Gidge

Lore Keeper
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
UNLEASHED
i have had one item made by request. an elemental bow with lots of damage increase and i think hci. (i've misplaced it of course)

i still use regular armour on all of my characters as i find adding powder and repairing it far more easy.

imbueing to me is overwhelming. and the soulforge HUGE!

gathering the resources easy and fun and a good money maker.

once everyones armour starts breaking and everyone runs out of stored items that they will return to hunting to gather items or mining to fill bods to get more.

i think overall everything seems okay. It gives choices.

i think with a way for us to give feedback as to what we are seeing (feeling) and we get continued responses, things will be groovy!
 
U

UOKaiser

Guest
I've literally bought 400-500 seeds over the last couple of months, dropping probably 80 to 100 million in gold (I'm trying for the "perfect" wood suit so I've broken many dozens of pieces for the 2 pieces I have that didn't break -- still need 2 more pieces to finish suit). I financed them through my vendor mall and selling stuff. I also do plants. So it's not like I live this cloistered existence and refuse to trade. Frankly there are not enough seeds for sale on Chessy (except for the ones selling for more than 2 mil per 10 which I refuse to buy), which is why I'm doing rat spawns over and over and over.
I've seen chessy and it's disapointing over there. the market of chessy is shot to hell. With the low pop and everyone in that low pop being self sufficient there is no market. im not surprise you won't be able to find anything. It used to be such a lively shard. Though such modifications will solve your immediate problem it will destroy another proffession and make other shards look more like yours in the long run so we can't have seeds spawning all over the place. It's better to leave it to the rare drops in the abyss but mostly to the botanist especialy the dedicated ones who grow 1000's of plants at a time. This will keep demand up and supply down to manageble levels so that they can actualy have a market to make it worth selling to players looking for the seeds instead of just lettin gthe players grow there own like what has happened on your shard because lack of market.
 
U

UOKaiser

Guest
i have had one item made by request. an elemental bow with lots of damage increase and i think hci. (i've misplaced it of course)

i still use regular armour on all of my characters as i find adding powder and repairing it far more easy.

imbueing to me is overwhelming. and the soulforge HUGE!

gathering the resources easy and fun and a good money maker.

once everyones armour starts breaking and everyone runs out of stored items that they will return to hunting to gather items or mining to fill bods to get more.

i think overall everything seems okay. It gives choices.

i think with a way for us to give feedback as to what we are seeing (feeling) and we get continued responses, things will be groovy!
The soulforge can be broken down to 1 square. head to housing forum they will instruct you how using goza mats. Now for things breaking It's being a long while since anything broke for most people when they do break they had plenty of time to restock so there ready to go. im not surprise people have triples and more of each item ready to go. Will last them years and years as they don't need to hunt anyway for these things anyway.

The only thing that does still give gold now is rare drops, rare deco, rare pets and essence drops oh and powder of course. It's kind of sad that out of all the items introduced in UO the last 13 years I can name the only ones truly sellable at the time. The rest of items do sell but the gold of them are so laughable people will make more if they stick there hand out at luna and ask for gold.
 
D

Diggity

Guest
Here is the ultimate fix to bringing PVM back.

If your weapon has an "imbued" tag on it. You cannot insure that item as it has already been "imbued with magical powers."

That would make regular crafted weapons worth while, and pvm weapons/jewels worth gathering again!
I think for PVP, imbued items should still be insurable. Until faction items are revamped, imbued equip levels the playing field. For PVM, most cases you can recover your body anyway so it doesn't matter much. In either case, I don't think much stuff will poof decay on the corpse. PVP'ers will either use or resell. So the items don't really leave the game.

I do agree that there is a need to make non-imbued stuff more desirable. They already can have higher property intensities than imbued stuff. Your "near-perfect" SC 14 DCI -20 MW is "only" 4 properties - assuming it is also no pen. If it had 50 HL or FB and 15 DCI that would be equivalent to a 590% weighting intensity for imbuing. I.e., you can not imbue an equiv weapon (planeswords aside). Runic stuff can be even higher. But I agree the likelihood of finding/crafting something better than what you can imbue is very very low.

I wouldn't be opposed to an insurance surcharge for imbued items. This would be a good way to increase the value of non-imbued items. The other advantage of non-imbued items is POF-ability. I think this advantage is also too low - imbued stuff lasts too long. If imbued items had a change of taking greater durability loss upon repair that would also increase the desirablity of the non-imbued stuff.
 

It Lives

Slightly Crazed
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
I know it can be imbued with what I want and then some, but I am still looking for that upgrade ring with just the right mods on it.

As a 6-10 hour a week player, I hate having to waste time repairing and hunting down replacement parts for my suits.

There will always will be a market for non-imbued Items because there are plenty of peeps who prefer not having to waste time continuously mat hunting and re-crafting the same items, Its boring.
 
U

UOKaiser

Guest
I know it can be imbued with what I want and then some, but I am still looking for that upgrade ring with just the right mods on it.

As a 6-10 hour a week player, I hate having to waste time repairing and hunting down replacement parts for my suits.

There will always will be a market for non-imbued Items because there are plenty of peeps who prefer not having to waste time continuously mat hunting and re-crafting the same items, Its boring.
I wished you were right. But with imbuing you don't need to step a foot into hunting anything. the gold players were going to pay someone to make a non imbued item can easily be made to buy the essence the gems and the relics and essence to make a top end item. Crafting with imbuing is not crafting it's just have the material recall to queens forge put mods on said item and leave. Really doesn't take more than 5 min. Crafting is different you need plenty of ingots or leather and gems and hammers and go at it for days or weeks with to try to get mods close to what you want. Big difference. Imbuers are not crafters only crafters that are imbuers are crafters
 

Gidge

Lore Keeper
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
UNLEASHED
The soulforge can be broken down to 1 square. head to housing forum they will instruct you how using goza mats. Now for things breaking It's being a long while since anything broke for most people when they do break they had plenty of time to restock so there ready to go. im not surprise people have triples and more of each item ready to go. Will last them years and years as they don't need to hunt anyway for these things anyway.

The only thing that does still give gold now is rare drops, rare deco, rare pets and essence drops oh and powder of course. It's kind of sad that out of all the items introduced in UO the last 13 years I can name the only ones truly sellable at the time. The rest of items do sell but the gold of them are so laughable people will make more if they stick there hand out at luna and ask for gold.
yes, i tried sizing one down and lost it yesterday, i had to disassemble half my house to get it to go down even as i don't have a huge house. Plus i would like to be able to redeed something that sells for 200k+.

yes, having a few back-ups is logical for any player whether their items are imbued or not. But choosing imbueing, one must at some point, head back out to gather stuff to recreate/replace those items.
 
U

UOKaiser

Guest
yes, i tried sizing one down and lost it yesterday, i had to disassemble half my house to get it to go down even as i don't have a huge house. Plus i would like to be able to redeed something that sells for 200k+.

yes, having a few back-ups is logical for any player whether their items are imbued or not. But choosing imbueing, one must at some point, head back out to gather stuff to recreate/replace those items.
Yea it is a pain to break up if your house already is packed. But as long as theres a way it's all good.

Eventually they will have to head back out if they want to gather or buy it from others which is more likely if they don't enjoy pvm. The sad part is that it's eventualy and not constantly. PVMers need constant reason to fight these constant monsters if not they are no longer PVMers. Those eho don't enjoy PVM would not want to fight monsters anyway but at least the PVMers can sell there unused goods to them keeping player to player trade alive and giving a reason to fight the 1millionth balron.
 

Percivalgoh

Sage
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
I am a casual player. By that I mean I play about 1 hour or two at the most in a 24 hour period of time. I don't know about the op because I can't afford to buy any and don't have the time to sell any. However I find imbuing a fun task. Gaining the skill is sometimes boring but what you can do with it is fun. You have to get loyalty points for the Queens forge and getting my imbuer those points was fun. Getting imbuing ingredients is often fun. I have had a 120 imbuer for a while but haven't made any complete sets of stuff so far. It may take me a long time to do that but then I have a goal that will last me for a while.
 
T

Trevelyan

Guest
Hmm ingredients that have a secondary use: instead of just being an ingredient, it MAY also be a useful weapon or piece of armour/jewelry for you to use. :D

Look at the picture of the Miasma wep above - I don't use the EC and was surprised with all the additional information on intensity %s I saw. Is that really what UO should be like? Someone who steps into UO from 10 years ago will just see numbers and figures and actually take a while to work out what the hell is going on. With such statistic-focused "features" and with all these calculations and tweaks for suits, why not just do away with weapons and armour and just have residue, essence and relics on corpses? Why even bother having corpses and just autoloot stuff as it dies? Why even have loot or gold difference - just have a set amount of gold per thing killed.

For years I haven't really bothered looting creatures except for perhaps weapons. Imbuing has actually made me loot from monsters again, to "smelt" everything down into ingredients. After a few times, I realised I was mostly getting residue so I started to get the higher intensity items only. But this just seems wrong to me - I remember actually getting excited over everything I looted and going back home to ID it later to see what it was and knowing there was a fairly good chance that armour I found would be better than stuff you could get from player crafters.

My imbuer has only around 80 imbuing at the moment but I have gained that simply from unravelling and not actively training. I can see that it wouldn't be too hard to get higher and how easy it is to make a 100% LRC suit from imbuing regular pieces of armour. The idea of an "advanced" player is very undefined, but I would suggest that a large portion of the UO playerbase is "advanced". Your skills just keep getting higher (no skill decay or loss). Insurance means you have no reason to lose anything (and gold isn't hard to get imo for a new player) so once you have an item, you keep it forever. You can't use PoF on items that you have imbued but really, if you keep repairing it before it gets to 0, you won't ever have it break. I've only ever had to use PoF on items with under 100 durability since 2003.

Imbuing takes a lot away from UO to me and produces a much more refined experience. All you need is money and you can just choose the properties you want. The problem is, is that this is too achieveable for a lot of people and it isn't expensive to do so for many. Every day, more relic frags are produced and they will only get cheaper. There seems to be very little tradeoff for imbued items and for me, the main benefit is simply reliability: being certain of a specific item that you can produce.

Maybe the amount of gold, resources and items in existence has been totally underestimated. Players have had over a decade to accumulate wealth and resources and items that have a relatively fixed value such as gems, community collection rewards and arrows are far quicker and easier to obtain if you buy them from NPCs. All you need to do is buy up an NPC jeweler's stock and you can make yourself an LRC suit.

No idea where im going with this, only that I miss a time when you could only get the best items as loot, but the most replaceable items from players. Everything seemed more harmonious and balanced: you started by buying NPC gear, moving on to buying a set of armour from a player and finally replacing bits with looted armour. Far more stuff was worth grabbing and using because of how much stuff was lost through lack of insurance. Oh and everything was harder to kill. So I think that imbuing adds another level of player empowerment to an already "easy" experience, along with insurance, artifacts, resistances, 120 skills etc.
 

Serafi

Babbling Loonie
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
I don't see how it could feel better.
Maybe because it is from my point of view and not yours:) To me this is far better.

Remmeber farming a area for hours daily and needing to recall out to unload all the items you aquired. Feeling happy when you found items you can put on or sell. Then go back and try again because it is wonderful to know you are getting rewarded for your time.
No I don`t remember because I rarely did. Before this my characters ran around with bits and bobs not really matched together. Rarely did I get anything I could use, even from the runic rng game. It was more frustration than fun for me.

That feeling is in the life blood of every pvmer That's the feeling we want.
What you want, not "we". I find crafting these days much more fun than ever.

It's easy to get your perfect suit In less than a day. If your on atlantic bring a character around and I'll imbue 1 of the characters of yours with max chosen imbued mods free of cost and unfortunetely this will end your hunt for your perfect suit for that character but i can show better by example.
No it will not. I am on Europa, have a legendary artificer and have made 100+ suits for myself and others since the skill was introduced. I always find something else I want to test out, some skill I want to swap, changing hunting grounds and thus want to test out another set up etc. Now I can actually do that.
 

Llewen

Grand Inquisitor
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
Campaign Supporter
Haven't read the entire thread, so if I'm just repeating what has been posted already, please forgive. First off, I think imbuing rocks. But second, because imbued pieces are most effective if tailored specifically for your suit what you need to do is figure out what you want, then hire an imbuer to make it for you. Best if you find someone with an established reputation, or a friend.

I've imbued pieces for more than one friend and even though I didn't charge outrageous prices, it was still very lucrative. You can make a lot of gold selling your skills as an imbuer. As usual, the most profitable clientelle are the pvp crowd.

But in general, it isn't worth putting imbued pieces on a vendor. Low level suits for new characters might do well, but high end imbued pieces are just too specific and an entire high end suit would be too expensive to be worth putting on a vendor.
 

RaDian FlGith

Babbling Loonie
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
Look at the picture of the Miasma wep above - I don't use the EC and was surprised with all the additional information on intensity %s I saw. Is that really what UO should be like?
Just so you're aware, all of that additional information comes from an addon, not the EC itself, and would be the kind of addon only an experienced player is likely to install.
 

LeBaiton

New Player Protector
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
I'm interested to know how you all feel that the new properties that were introduced with SA (which are not imbuable) are bolstering pve/pvm?

Also, I find it counter intuitive that a system that requires 20 + high intensity items to make 1 new item would "kill" pve/pvm. For those of you who are claiming this is true, what makes you say this is happening?
Hello there Mark,

One gripe I have with Imbuing is that Arms Lore crafted armor has a lot more to offer than PvE obtained armor...

I.e. say I find a leather armor tunic with MR2, MI8 and "normal" resists, it'll have 15 resists total compared to a piece crafted with GM Arms Lore (44 resists and no mods)...

If you want to make PvE gear usefull, you'll have to give it some sort of bonus. Perhaps make it so that when a PvE obtained gear piece, enhanced with Barbed Leather and GM Arms Lore/Legendary Tailoring, gets the same ammount of resists as an exceptionally crafted piece of armor...

That way, enhancing gear with superb mods would actually be viable and PvE obtained gear would hold certain value. Nowadays one's better off creating a piece of leather armor with 44 resist and imbuing the mods onto it...

Imbuing caters to the poor and the PvP'ers. What system currently caters to PvE'ers? Not everyone PvP's, if you want to retain both the PvE'ers and the PvP'ers on your game's servers, you'll have to give them a bone....

Just my 2 cents...
 

Smoot

Stratics Legend
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
What i miss most from pre-imbuing UO is that loot used to be really unique, you might find a jewel or weapon that you could add to your vendor hot off a monster corpse, and make decent gold doing this. I haven't put a regular jewel on a vendor since imbuing came out. They just aren't worth even trying to sell.


Loot weapons, even more useless because they cant be imbued to max intensity, and because you would have to buy fort powder if you you wanted to even think about selling one. You cant just say, "well this might sell, ill put it on a vendor for a while and see."


I know you get ingredients from monsters, which can be made into anything you want, but to me this has taken away the charm and excitement of monster loot.

Look at it this way. Say you opened a treasure chest, would you rather find it filled to the brim with jewels, gold, all kinds of items that you could throw up in the air and revel in, or would you rather find a ticket sitting at the bottom saying "redeem this for the item of your choice." I guess some may choose the latter, but not me.
 

Tina Small

Stratics Legend
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
A couple of my thoughts about ideas in this thread:

I think too many people who run vendors assume no one wants a basic imbued suit and jewelry. I've run across vendors on some of the Japanese shards that sell basic imbued suits for only a couple thousand gold pieces. They also sell cheap jewelry imbued with various combinations of +10 to +13 skill amounts. I can't understand why someone who really wants to serve their shard doesn't consider selling stuff like this. It shouldn't cost them a lot in vendor fees and they'd sure be providing a great service to new and returning players. And with the low durability these items have, they surely would have some repeat business. I guess for too many people, running merchants these days isn't worthwhile unless you sell items that cost at least a million gold each?

As far as the new properties go, Mark, I haven't bothered with them. Heck, a few days ago someone had to enlighten me about the kinetic eater property because I had forgotten about it being on a couple of cloaks I got from the Captains Dan and Crag. To me, it seems like the new properties are primarily aimed at dexxers. (I'm probably wrong.) And that is what has made me mostly ignore them. I've given up on the idea of ever seriously playing dexxer-type characters. I'm a cheapskate and it's just too darn expensive to deck out a dexxer. True mage characters too. I'm just not interested in spending most of my time in game farming for gold and/or chaining peerless or other high-end mobs hoping to get some kind of artifact. Heck, to date, I still don't own a crimson cincture, an ornament of the magician, or a hat of the magi or any other high-end artifact. And even though I have characters in factions on multiple shards, faction artifacts aren't an option for me. I use one artifact on one character and I put it on her after guildmates cajoled me into doing it and I figured I'd support them better if I gave in. Faction artifacts were a mistake, in my opinion, and I wish they'd just go away.

I sometimes do peerless or champ spawns or things like Navrey with guildmates, but I always use a tamer character and the results to date, for me, have been disappointing. I don't know about anyone else, but by the time I get around to doing those kinds of things, it seems like "how you do it" has practically become a science and it just has little appeal for me. Do this and this and this and this....and then hope the RNG goes in your favor for once. If not, repeat. Repeat. Repeat.

Blech.

I'll stick to plodding along, I guess. I'm very grateful someone made the change to let you get imbuing gains from unraveling. Suits me fine to go out and gather loot to unravel and maybe to save for later to imbue. I'll never have lots of relic fragments because I'm too lazy to do a lot of BODs and never have enough ingots. (Thank goodness you guys added the new gargoyle stuff for smithing and tailoring because they're hard to make but a few don't take many resources. Finally finished tailoring and smithing on a few characters that I figured would be plodding along with daily gains for at least a few more years to get to 120.) Nope, my relic fragment supply goes up very slowly from doing Percolem quests every couple of days and occasionally participating in in-game events that have the potential to give relic fragments as a reward. I wish you'd add more quests that give relic fragments as a reward. The Percolem quests are fine, but with the 24-hour timer (or whatever it is) on them, it's difficult to actually do the couple for the relic fragments every day. I end up just doing them every other day (if I remember) to avoid having to watch the clock so much and decide oops it's time to go kill maddening horrors or see if the Holy City is infested with dead stuff.

Would love to see more stuff added to the game to support new players. I hope that if you ever get time to spend on that, you'll take a serious look at how things are going with the sale of power and stat scrolls. Really look at what people sell these days and the prices being charged and then think about the message those prices send to players who are grinding to gather gold for those scrolls. There has to be a better way to get power and stat scrolls for starting characters than recommending they play the merchant's "buy low, sell high" game. It disappoints me greatly that the game has apparently sunk to the level that gouging your fellow players is the preferred method for financing your characters' gear.
 
S

Stupid Miner

Guest
We've been looking at this for a while now, but it would require us first to create a centralized bank. Currently, your "bank" is actually stored on your character and is not accessible when you are not online. We would need some kind of bank to put your payment in so that you don't have to be online to make the transaction. This is not out of the question, it's just a bigger task than it may appear on the surface.
Well this would cut down a lot of lag wouldn't it for when there are large groups of players gathered in one area? Same thing with loading everyone's backpack when they enter the area instead of when thieves are snooping.

... and loading all the vendor's items when they're on screen instead of when you actually open them.

Lots of lag to be trimmed down :(
 
S

Stupid Miner

Guest
Here's what I mean by when I say PVM is dead. I spent the better part of a year doing Lady Mels looking for perfect weapons, jewels. No particular play style, just perfect mods on specific weapons.

One day I pulled a SC -20 Mage wep, 14 DCI Leafblade. About two months later I got a set of rune blades with 50ish mana leech, 50ish stam leech, 30 SSI, 46 DI.

That is what I lived for. Two weapon that were nearly perfect!! That is why I was doing the Mels, I had acquired a set of amazing weapons.

Sadly, now all one has to do is imbue for 5 minutes and they can get the same results.

You can't say that needing "20" special materials is tough when you have 10000 people farming these materials and selling them all over the place. With relics being crafted, its even easier.
There are few things that send people like me into a unadulterated murderous blood rage.
One of those things is mindless farming with absolutely no progression towards the intended goal.

Kill one swoop and you're no closer to getting "the perfect item" than when you are after you kill 100 swoops or 10,000 swoops. :)
Actually causes a sense of deep loathing.
 
S

Stupid Miner

Guest
Yea it is a pain to break up if your house already is packed. But as long as theres a way it's all good.

Eventually they will have to head back out if they want to gather or buy it from others which is more likely if they don't enjoy pvm. The sad part is that it's eventualy and not constantly. PVMers need constant reason to fight these constant monsters if not they are no longer PVMers. Those eho don't enjoy PVM would not want to fight monsters anyway but at least the PVMers can sell there unused goods to them keeping player to player trade alive and giving a reason to fight the 1millionth balron.
Er, actually some of us just enjoy the thrill of the challenge.
 

Nexus

Site Support
Administrator
Moderator
Professional
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
Wiki Moderator
UNLEASHED
I'm interested to know how you all feel that the new properties that were introduced with SA (which are not imbuable) are bolstering pve/pvm?
The Eaters are OK but Casting Focus, and Life Siphon are great more so in PvM (except Casting Focus which has merits in PvP). I like them, now if you'd only tie Resisting Spells into Casting Focus to increase it's cap... No point in having a trapped crate replace 120 points of skill.

Also, I find it counter intuitive that a system that requires 20 + high intensity items to make 1 new item would "kill" pve/pvm. For those of you who are claiming this is true, what makes you say this is happening?
I think that claim is mainly from people who don't understand the purpose of the weight system, and how processing anything actually works...

There is always waste in any process even in UO. Sometimes we can't account for it because we don't see the behind the scenes, but it's accepted. For example how can 12 stones of hides turn into an 4 stone piece of armor, the other 8 stones is trim and waste from tailoring, lost to use of the skill. Imbuing is no different, except a large portion of the lost "Magic" is lost in the unraveling process instead of the actual Imbuing process. To me it's fine I accept it and have no issue with it.

As for new players, if you just need to get a full set of armor/weapons, show up at any of the live events where there is one of the random reward treasure chests... people tend to dump a lot of equipment on the ground there if it doesn't fit their current armor plan and you can just take it.
That's true, but more importantly the Players need to take responsibility for enhancing and improving the player community. UO has almost always strongly relied on player to give a leg up to new members of our communities. I remember back years ago the Companion Program was introduced, even when the Smurfs were all de-robed Companions kept their abilities and many continued to preform those functions. Many people at one point were taking and dumping items around New Haven for new players to collect and use, I know myself, I always work to introduce new players to a Guild on Chessy that is really active in providing for new players. It's the little things that would be irrelevant to our own game play that we can do to build a stronger new player experience.

By design, building the "perfect suit" is an advanced player game. It is not required to enjoy UO and the definition of the "perfect suit" continues to evolve as new properties are introduced. Optimization is fun for many people and thus this element of UO is there for them as a long term goal.
That's true but one thing UO lacked was an easy way to reach that "Mid Zone" suit. Not perfect but not horrible either, you could hunt stuff appropriate for your skill and not get much in the way of good armor, making it more difficult for you to advance to tougher things. The Loot Tables for Monsters is really out of wack, new expansions really didn't introduce much in the way of low end monsters, and Legacy Dungeons still drop sorry loot by todays standards. Imbuing has done a fine job of breeching that gap, if you aren't interested in Max Intensities you can make a fine suit using mostly common ingredients.
 
U

UOKaiser

Guest
Er, actually some of us just enjoy the thrill of the challenge.
How long does something remain a challenge after 10 years? 5?2?1? 6months?3 months? You beat it you decimated alone and with your eyes closed. What is the reason to farm it to kill it 500 times a day for 10 years to prove that it's still a challenge? there is no way they can continue to add unique monsters to challenge us everyday they dont have the resources.
 
U

UOKaiser

Guest
There are few things that send people like me into a unadulterated murderous blood rage.
One of those things is mindless farming with absolutely no progression towards the intended goal.

Kill one swoop and you're no closer to getting "the perfect item" than when you are after you kill 100 swoops or 10,000 swoops. :)
Actually causes a sense of deep loathing.
Now theres no point to kill 10k swoops they won't give you anything better than what you can have in no time. Before there was a point no progression as this is not a game about levels but about the chance to get something that surpass anything you have on your body and even if you don't need it you could sell it to someone who does and use that gold to buy other more important things to you so that you can improve your individual playstyle that brings you enjoyment. But if you did find that items that uyou spend 10k swoops to kill you will treasure it, Feel the accomplishment, even if you never need it again you will mount it and everytime you look at it the sense of accomplishment shall wipe through your soul and you will say to your self" I worked hard for this! I shed blood,tears and time for this! This is my trophy! And let no man look down upon my sucess!".
 

Violence

Lore Keeper
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
Re:

It's not what imbuing has done. The skill is perfect to be honest..

People becoming increasingly alienated only shows that all the talk about community spirit was nothing but hot air. As for depending on others- This is not forming a community, this is hindering certain customers' game-style. And farming, you say? For certain other customers that too has become too tedious, blame it on whatever you like.. It doesn't matter.

In essence, whether imbuing or not is available I'll still talk to my friends, still only PVP and so on. All the skill did was make it easier to get items, a relief after AOS. And really, it was about time for merchants to get "nerfed" a little bit. No more over-the-top fixed prices on specific items which "..Everyone needs" to PVP or PVM.

I almost want to say you whine too much or maybe you're looking a gift horse in the mouth or something.. Almost. I'm quite sure this new trend of complaining about imbuing is the next "version" of complaining about insurance. I really don't understand some of the posters here at all.
 
U

UOKaiser

Guest
Re:

It's not what imbuing has done. The skill is perfect to be honest..

People becoming increasingly alienated only shows that all the talk about community spirit was nothing but hot air. As for depending on others- This is not forming a community, this is hindering certain customers' game-style. And farming, you say? For certain other customers that too has become too tedious, blame it on whatever you like.. It doesn't matter.

In essence, whether imbuing or not is available I'll still talk to my friends, still only PVP and so on. All the skill did was make it easier to get items, a relief after AOS. And really, it was about time for merchants to get "nerfed" a little bit. No more over-the-top fixed prices on specific items which "..Everyone needs" to PVP or PVM.

I almost want to say you whine too much or maybe you're looking a gift horse in the mouth or something.. Almost. I'm quite sure this new trend of complaining about imbuing is the next "version" of complaining about insurance. I really don't understand some of the posters here at all.
This is a purely PVP perspected. And imbuing has gave the PVPers the best thing they can possibly get. But what it did to the trammel classes is the same thing if I gave you a kill switch that allows you to enter a screen and then everyone drops dead and you have no choice as it always automaticaly. You will enjoy it of course as you see everyone fall to there knees But eventualy after some time will you still be having fun 2 days from now? 2 months? 2 years? 10 years? just entering a battle and the switch automaticaly turns on everyone dies and you go back to your house you come out everyone dies and you go back to your house this would be the PVP player comparison to what has happend to the trammel classes.
Many are still enjoying it but as days goes by they notice that things get less and less challlenging,less fun and more and more boring they can't explain it yet but they start to realise they can't sell the goods that they aquire and venders begin to die out around them, they realise it's useless to pvm that 1000 ths whatever,they realise that they have aquired everything and eventualy they will realise they lost the core of there trammel heart.
 

Tina Small

Stratics Legend
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
Re:

This is a purely PVP perspected. And imbuing has gave the PVPers the best thing they can possibly get. But what it did to the trammel classes is the same thing if I gave you a kill switch that allows you to enter a screen and then everyone drops dead and you have no choice as it always automaticaly. You will enjoy it of course as you see everyone fall to there knees But eventualy after some time will you still be having fun 2 days from now? 2 months? 2 years? 10 years? just entering a battle and the switch automaticaly turns on everyone dies and you go back to your house you come out everyone dies and you go back to your house this would be the PVP player comparison to what has happend to the trammel classes.
Many are still enjoying it but as days goes by they notice that things get less and less challlenging,less fun and more and more boring they can't explain it yet but they start to realise they can't sell the goods that they aquire and venders begin to die out around them, they realise it's useless to pvm that 1000 ths whatever,they realise that they have aquired everything and eventualy they will realise they lost the core of there trammel heart.
Sorry, but I'm definitely not having this problem at all. If anything, my "to do" list in UO is almost overwhelming. I play on multiple shards and very very few of my characters have what I consider perfect or near-perfect gear. And I'm not an anomaly either.

I'm aware of many PvPers who play multiple shards for a variety of reasons (e.g., better fights, more opportunity to do champs and harrowers, etc.) and am pretty certain they are all in more or less the same situation. Some may have more gold than others to buy what they need on the shards they visit; however, I think a fair number of them are still "farming" for ingredients and probably will be for quite some time. There are also some that feel that the faction artifacts may become nonfunctional if there's a faction revamp and they are working now to replace their faction artifacts before that happens.

And then they are the event-item collectors and/or roleplayers who play on multiple shards. I don't see them going away either, unless EA decides to make event items non-transferable. These people are also most likely still making more characters and perfecting all of their suits.

There are also a number of people like me who just plain like to try out other shards and/or enjoy the challenge of building up new characters. Some may do it because most of their old friends have left the game and continuing to play on their home shard is almost too painful for the constant reminders of people who are no longer around or just flat out doesn't feel like "home" any more.

All in all, I would certainly say the situation is nowhere close to as dire as you make it out to be. PvM farming for ingredients, loot, and gold is far from dead. Just because people aren't putting their ingredients on vendors doesn't mean they aren't still collecting ingredients. I believe a lot of people who used to run vendors in the past with the idea of trying to provide a service to their shard just simply got tired of seeing their stock bought out and sold by someone else at a mark-up. Argue all you want about how there's not a problem with that; however, I think that practice has really put a sour taste in the mouths of people who laboriously went out and collected resources and/or crafted goods without the aid of scripting and put it on vendors in hopes of providing a much-needed service and making a modest profit. Some of those people may still be around after having their modest dreams dashed by the big greedy merchant billionaires of UO; however, I expect that now they sell their goods directly to others and advertise by word-of-mouth or via chat or a forum.

If you and your league of merchants are despairing because you've run out of small-time suppliers, maybe you need to look at how you treat other players. Maybe it's time you come up with a more cooperative and inclusive system for making money from merchanting, instead of one that only benefits your little price-fixing, player-gouging clique.
 
U

UOKaiser

Guest
Re:

Sorry, but I'm definitely not having this problem at all. If anything, my "to do" list in UO is almost overwhelming. I play on multiple shards and very very few of my characters have what I consider perfect or near-perfect gear. And I'm not an anomaly either.

I'm aware of many PvPers who play multiple shards for a variety of reasons (e.g., better fights, more opportunity to do champs and harrowers, etc.) and am pretty certain they are all in more or less the same situation. Some may have more gold than others to buy what they need on the shards they visit; however, I think a fair number of them are still "farming" for ingredients and probably will be for quite some time. There are also some that feel that the faction artifacts may become nonfunctional if there's a faction revamp and they are working now to replace their faction artifacts before that happens.

And then they are the event-item collectors and/or roleplayers who play on multiple shards. I don't see them going away either, unless EA decides to make event items non-transferable. These people are also most likely still making more characters and perfecting all of their suits.

There are also a number of people like me who just plain like to try out other shards and/or enjoy the challenge of building up new characters. Some may do it because most of their old friends have left the game and continuing to play on their home shard is almost too painful for the constant reminders of people who are no longer around or just flat out doesn't feel like "home" any more.

All in all, I would certainly say the situation is nowhere close to as dire as you make it out to be. PvM farming for ingredients, loot, and gold is far from dead. Just because people aren't putting their ingredients on vendors doesn't mean they aren't still collecting ingredients. I believe a lot of people who used to run vendors in the past with the idea of trying to provide a service to their shard just simply got tired of seeing their stock bought out and sold by someone else at a mark-up. Argue all you want about how there's not a problem with that; however, I think that practice has really put a sour taste in the mouths of people who laboriously went out and collected resources and/or crafted goods without the aid of scripting and put it on vendors in hopes of providing a much-needed service and making a modest profit. Some of those people may still be around after having their modest dreams dashed by the big greedy merchant billionaires of UO; however, I expect that now they sell their goods directly to others and advertise by word-of-mouth or via chat or a forum.

If you and your league of merchants are despairing because you've run out of small-time suppliers, maybe you need to look at how you treat other players. Maybe it's time you come up with a more cooperative and inclusive system for making money from merchanting, instead of one that only benefits your little price-fixing, player-gouging clique.
Assume people don't like to start over from scratch as thats a very small minority and really is another way to fix the system by doing a complete wipe. i am against that though.
Event hunters are always waiting for the next event if a event don't come it's over for them.
Rare hunters there less and less rares these days. I know I used to be one of them. The community of rare hunters have fallen of the map lately.
In all the thought. Siege must be excluded from this conversation there system is different. The once farming for ingrediants are the players in dead shards where there is nobody that can sell them the rare ingrediants. The markets are shot out from those poor shards so they have to do things themselves.
Sure there are players farming in other shards as essences and the rare drops are the only thing that sells really in PVM. Take those away and am sure they all be as dead as the old dungeons.
It is dire you will see it sooner than later even if you don't see it now. Run around to those old community vender malls outside luna that stood up around your shard and still were around. Hell just run around luna don't you notice something. Take a trip down to any dungeon other than SA. Matter of fact remmeber how when the spawns in SA where camped that you had to take turns. Run around there on peak hour and notice where there should be 20 players there is only 2. look around open your eyes. Don't think about the short term look at the long term.

Head to test center and give your self everything then don't play anything but test center don't PVP there either just do trammel things there untill you get sick and tired of it. Then imagine that in pubic shards.

Head to a populated shard Farm anything that doesn't give you essence or rares for a week. Then think about it for a sec and ask yourself why are you killing this creature?

We have some time but it's inevitable there is no way around it. 1+1 =2 and not 4. No matter what the reason fact is fact there is no interpretation about it. What is unseen will be seen eventually. Look around.

Word of advise. Nobody can price fix anything players pay what it's worth based on supply and demand people can only manage the uncontrollable with teamwork so the market doesn't become like the poor guy who couldn't find seeds in chessy. As long as the player who made the resource or gathered the resource got paid what they asked for then they shouldn't worry about what theplayer who bought from them does with it. We have enough of that from the music comapanies already.
The only ones who suffer from low prices are players who pvm'ers,blacksmith,imbuers,tailors,carpenters,fletchers,,botanist,miners,lumberers,fishers,crafters,vender home owners,poor players who work hard,idocers,leather gatheres,cooks,beggers,rare thief,champ spawners,real state sellers and sorry for anybody else i missed

The ones who suffer from High prices are Pure pvp players,reds,faction pvpers,roleplayers who talk in weird language and don't leave the in character state, lazy players who want everything handed to them,Rich players,decoraters,realestate buyers,hobbyist.

Newbies are categorized in both areas as they suffer short term from high prices cause they can't afford anything but they also suffer long term because they can't make enough gold from the products they produce to actualy catch up to the rest of us. So in the short term they need things to be cheap but in long term they need things to be priced high.

Resellers which is how aquire my funds are immune from low prices and high prices. We make the same profit regardless and do not need to produce anything from scratch so we don't lose time,gold or work. the person who gathered something makes the 100k from us and we sell it for 125k all we made was 25k. the one who produce it makes alot more than we do but they do the work so they deserve it. We just have customers and more personal relationship and ties that have more gold to spread around for the pleasure of always being supplied and personal interaction or enjoy buying in bulk to use or resele themselves. Still we always make alot less on the product than the player who aquired it or produce it for himself. Thats how it works. Works like that in real life. Manufacturer-wholesaler-retail-customer. Prices increase downt he line but the margin of profit gets smaller.
Though i still like the feeling of producing my own products as is how I started out I was one of those trusted GM Blacksmith back in the days that you came to a public forge in brit to repair your item.
While other players were busy killing each other we were busy building community.
 

Violence

Lore Keeper
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
Sorry pal, I'm not feeling like I've got a Kill Switch in PVP because I'm using imbued items and it certainly doesn't feel like anyone else does either, when I fight against them.

You're a bit off in your examples there. I still can't see a problem with the skill, quite the contrary.

And yes it's a PVP perspective- I PVP. What was the reason that's wrong, again? And what's the reason my style should be limited by nerfing imbuing? rolleyes:

I could easily say yours is a merchant's POV and completely ignore your claims, but instead I'm listening to what you've got to say. In this case it appears to not be much more than moaning. Just my opinion, I'll head to my corner and be quiet now. If others having the items of their UO day-dreams on their characters is going to make you /RageQuit or /BTD, you have issues. Weren't you always preaching how one should enjoy the game and not only seek to reap more and more rewards(and what's more, exclusive rewards to themselves)?.. @@ At least I play the game to PVP and to me that's all that matters- I like UO. I like playing. I don't need rewards for playing, nor any need to feel "unique" because I wear this or that item.

Merchants don't build community. They build rails on which they expect the rest of the players to roll on. Didn't you read this : "People becoming increasingly alienated only shows that all the talk about community spirit was nothing but hot air.". Let's see you walk the talk, then we can discuss your contribution to "community" in Ultima. In my eyes, playing with friends(PVP or PVM) offers much more in building a team spirit by the way. Me paying you to get something I "NEED" is not community. It's trading. I'll say a polite "Thanks" and you'll say "Welcome" and now not even that- Unless EA/M removed player vendors with the last patch.. ;D

When was the last time you walked around hawking in Ultima Online..? Yeah, actually selling stuff yourself and all that..? Did I just hear a mental "I can't even remember anymore, I just gate people from the bank and repeat silly sentences!"......? Imbuing brings this back EXACTLY because there are no "FIXED" items with "FIXED" prices worth selling, at least not equipment. So it builds community better than your Honest Trader act.
 

Smoot

Stratics Legend
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
Now theres no point to kill 10k swoops they won't give you anything better than what you can have in no time. Before there was a point no progression as this is not a game about levels but about the chance to get something that surpass anything you have on your body and even if you don't need it you could sell it to someone who does and use that gold to buy other more important things to you so that you can improve your individual playstyle that brings you enjoyment. But if you did find that items that uyou spend 10k swoops to kill you will treasure it, Feel the accomplishment, even if you never need it again you will mount it and everytime you look at it the sense of accomplishment shall wipe through your soul and you will say to your self" I worked hard for this! I shed blood,tears and time for this! This is my trophy! And let no man look down upon my sucess!".
First let me say, most of my best looted weapons jewels, and most of the armor i enhanced Did come from swoops. That not to say i didn't all the other peerless too. Now when i'm watching a kinda boring movie, or drinking coffee in the morning, I kill Rats at the dump (cavern of the discarded) They both require no skill at all and you can do it without really paying any attention. Whats different tho, is that when looting a corpse, you don't really search through loot thinking "ok lets see what we have here *rubs hands together* this looks good, that a new player could use, ill enhance that piece of armor" you just think. Oh look, another seed. cool. *puts in bag* And once in a while you get an arty, that is nice to get, but nowhere as nice as getting an amazing ring or weapon. People don't ask where you get imbued jewelry, but they did ask where i got some of my better jewels and weapons. It was nice to say " I found it on a monster corpse" not "i bought it for 20million gold off a vendor. But i digress. I still like killing those pesky rats when im half asleep, but its not as fun looking through the loot for whats valuable. You already know whats valuable and just have to wait to see it. And for new players, im sorry but im not going to waste those materials making anything, except for myself. Its more profitable selling wise to sell the base ingredients.

Im not saying im greedy, ill help a new player out anytime with gear and knowledge, but its just not worth the time anymore. I might loot one or 2 "new player jewels" in an hour, but they can get something so much better from imbuing that its really not worth the time. Especially with armor. And, i confess, although i have a 120 artificer, i dont imbue suits and jewelry for new player / lower end vendors. Its just extra time that was previously concurrent with looting for myself. I have and will continue to make a nice weapon or a very nice suit for a new player, and it is fun to imbue up a decent piece of crafted armor that would have been a throw away most likely, but this thread was about how imbuing has affected pvm. Its still fun to solo a peerless, fight over a harrower, do a spawn, but Imbuing has made regular monster loot obsolete.

Coming full circle, maybe this was the point. To do something Solely for the fun of it, not because of loot. ... But we still have arties, powerscrolls, ingredients and sots... *shakes head* I liked looting unique things, but its over with, game has changed, so i just make the best of it and still have fun.
 
U

UOKaiser

Guest
Sorry pal, I'm not feeling like I've got a Kill Switch in PVP because I'm using imbued items and it certainly doesn't feel like anyone else does either, when I fight against them.

You're a bit off in your examples there. I still can't see a problem with the skill, quite the contrary.

And yes it's a PVP perspective- I PVP. What was the reason that's wrong, again? And what's the reason my style should be limited by nerfing imbuing? rolleyes:

I could easily say yours is a merchant's POV and completely ignore your claims, but instead I'm listening to what you've got to say. In this case it appears to not be much more than moaning. Just my opinion, I'll head to my corner and be quiet now. If others having the items of their UO day-dreams on their characters is going to make you /RageQuit or /BTD, you have issues. Weren't you always preaching how one should enjoy the game and not only seek to reap more and more rewards(and what's more, exclusive rewards to themselves)?.. @@ At least I play the game to PVP and to me that's all that matters- I like UO. I like playing. I don't need rewards for playing, nor any need to feel "unique" because I wear this or that item.

Merchants don't build community. They build rails on which they expect the rest of the players to roll on. Didn't you read this : "People becoming increasingly alienated only shows that all the talk about community spirit was nothing but hot air.". Let's see you walk the talk, then we can discuss your contribution to "community" in Ultima. In my eyes, playing with friends(PVP or PVM) offers much more in building a team spirit by the way. Me paying you to get something I "NEED" is not community. It's trading. I'll say a polite "Thanks" and you'll say "Welcome" and now not even that- Unless EA/M removed player vendors with the last patch.. ;D

When was the last time you walked around hawking in Ultima Online..? Yeah, actually selling stuff yourself and all that..? Did I just hear a mental "I can't even remember anymore, I just gate people from the bank and repeat silly sentences!"......? Imbuing brings this back EXACTLY because there are no "FIXED" items with "FIXED" prices worth selling, at least not equipment. So it builds community better than your Honest Trader act.
You missed the point. You do not have a kill switch in PVP right now because is us in PVM and crafters that have the kill switch. What imbuing has done to the crafter and pvm community is given us a kill switch. PVP don't have the kill switch so they don't notice what is happening to us.

Paying me something you need is the same as me paying you to get scrolls. You advicate putting double resources and harrower and the scrolls in trammel then?

Ofcourse there are fixed items now. Will you make a weapon with ressit or armor with reflect damage or put up random mods all over your suit or will you make a suit with 45 dci 45 hci all 70's stam increase? Adding focus for gargyle in the suit? Adding ressit for the players that don't use trap boxes? Adding 1/2 for players that are mages? and so forth it's all very predictible and completely fixed items now. My favorite 5 ssi with dci/hci and dex increase.

Players who don't PVP build communities you know why? Cause we are not killing the other players. Players who PVP build guilds even zerg guilds but mainly for the purose of killing,protecting and controlling.

How can community be build if you can do everything yourself? Siege excluded once again if your from siege or mugen we are not talking about those shards. They are outside and nothing in the public shards applys to them

Last thing. you must understand as I do. PVP play style is not the same as the PVM playstyle. The PVP crafter is not the same as a PVM crafter. The playstyle diffferes. When the importance of pvp is to kill the opponent the importance of PVM is to get rewarded for killing the opponent. You get your pleasure from seeing your enemies fall becuase you outsmart or out skilled your opponent. Our opponents are mindless beast and respawning endlessly. They can't be talked to or taunted or influenced. We kill them only to reskill them again and again only for there reward not to say hey I am the man I killed my 1millionth troll!!. The playstyles differ and you must take players from trammel life and communtiy difference from players in fel life and community. What you consider important like balance,outdoing your enemies etc. We don't. And what we consider important like the shinies and merchanting and crafting you don't.
 

Llewen

Grand Inquisitor
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
Campaign Supporter
Sorry pal, I'm not feeling like I've got a Kill Switch in PVP because I'm using imbued items and it certainly doesn't feel like anyone else does either, when I fight against them.
In my personal opinion imbuing hasn't given everyone a "kill switch" in pvm. I still die doing spawns, and I've got a pretty solid suit for both pvp and pvm. Yes, it has made it easier for the average player to have good gear, but that is far from being a "kill switch".

There is a pvm balance issue, but the problem isn't with imbuing, the problem is with the sampire template. That template rules pvm right now, and it is as close to an auto "kill switch" in pvm that we have ever had. Imbuing has made that template more accessible, but the problem isn't imbuing, the problem is that template.

That template needs to be whacked with a nerf sledge hammer, there is no way a single template should be able to solo anything in the game easily, and once you know what you are doing, that template can do it for you.

As for pvp, imbuing has done a lot to restore balance. It has helped restore balance between the "haves" and "have nots" and it has effectively nerfed some of the op templates, such as archers. You could argue that they are still op if you like, but they aren't anywhere near the problem they were before imbuing came along, and in my opinion, they are balanced now.

Imbuing is one of the best additions to the game ever in my opinion. Yes there are some issues in which imbuing is a factor, such as the drastically op sampire template in pvm, but the problem isn't with imbuing, the problem is with the template.
 
U

UOKaiser

Guest
In my personal opinion imbuing hasn't given everyone a "kill switch" in pvm. I still die doing spawns, and I've got a pretty solid suit for both pvp and pvm. Yes, it has made it easier for the average player to have good gear, but that is far from being a "kill switch".

There is a pvm balance issue, but the problem isn't with imbuing, the problem is with the sampire template. That template rules pvm right now, and it is as close to an auto "kill switch" in pvm that we have ever had. Imbuing has made that template more accessible, but the problem isn't imbuing, the problem is that template.

That template needs to be whacked with a nerf sledge hammer, there is no way a single template should be able to solo anything in the game easily, and once you know what you are doing, that template can do it for you.

As for pvp, imbuing has done a lot to restore balance. It has helped restore balance between the "haves" and "have nots" and it has effectively nerfed some of the op templates, such as archers. You could argue that they are still op if you like, but they aren't anywhere near the problem they were before imbuing came along, and in my opinion, they are balanced now.

Imbuing is one of the best additions to the game ever in my opinion. Yes there are some issues in which imbuing is a factor, such as the drastically op sampire template in pvm, but the problem isn't with imbuing, the problem is with the template.
He misconsturede what I said with the kill switch. the kill switch is not literaly a automatic kill switch in pvm crafting. It's a comparison on what is slowly happening in trammel life that it would of being a equilivent IF pvp was given a force autoamtic kill switch.It's a metaphor into a system that has a end and not a continously recycle with a limited purpose.
Once again PVP loves imbuing there is no question about it. it helps them in everyway. But in trammel lifestyle it has put a limited time on it. Eventualy trammel will die out and without trammel there won't be enough players to keep the game going so fel players will have no choice but to head to the freeshards.
 

Freelsy

Babbling Loonie
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
In my personal opinion imbuing hasn't given everyone a "kill switch" in pvm. I still die doing spawns, and I've got a pretty solid suit for both pvp and pvm. Yes, it has made it easier for the average player to have good gear, but that is far from being a "kill switch".

There is a pvm balance issue, but the problem isn't with imbuing, the problem is with the sampire template. That template rules pvm right now, and it is as close to an auto "kill switch" in pvm that we have ever had. Imbuing has made that template more accessible, but the problem isn't imbuing, the problem is that template.

That template needs to be whacked with a nerf sledge hammer, there is no way a single template should be able to solo anything in the game easily, and once you know what you are doing, that template can do it for you.

As for pvp, imbuing has done a lot to restore balance. It has helped restore balance between the "haves" and "have nots" and it has effectively nerfed some of the op templates, such as archers. You could argue that they are still op if you like, but they aren't anywhere near the problem they were before imbuing came along, and in my opinion, they are balanced now.

Imbuing is one of the best additions to the game ever in my opinion. Yes there are some issues in which imbuing is a factor, such as the drastically op sampire template in pvm, but the problem isn't with imbuing, the problem is with the template.

I don't understand your Sampire dislike. You can take a sampire through all the peerlesses you want but you wont get the good items. So you can solo a paroxy, so what. I do it with a tamer and an archer at 4k luck. I'll kill it quicker and have a better chance at getting awesome items. But that doesn't matter anymore since imbuing came out.

Also, Sicklover. No one is saying imbuing is broke or needs to be nerfed. This thread is about how its affected the magic item market and farming for something other than resources to craft armor. Imbuing did exactly what it was intended to do. Supply those that were A) didn't have time to invest into the game B) were to lazy to grind out and get the gear. (grinding can be interpreted as doing BODS, monster farming, questing.... whatever)

I think what really did it in for monster farming was the ability to craft the relic fragment. As it is, it's the easiest thing in the world to craft them. Grab a bronze hammer, get some gold ingots and make knights war cleavers and unravel at queens soulforge. You're guaranteed 30 relics, all the way up to 60, if you're lucky. I believe the original intent was to have the relics require monster farming of the highest sort. BUT, lack of oversight, not stopping the problem quick enough, relics were flooded and thus the whole point of the relic being hard to get was over.

I for one have pretty much stopped playing because there is nothing for me to really do... Loot from treasure chests sucks, strongbox loot has been nerfed to hell, monster farming is not viable any longer, PvP is still there but its the same ol thing day in day out.

:sad4:
 
S

Stupid Miner

Guest
How long does something remain a challenge after 10 years? 5?2?1? 6months?3 months? You beat it you decimated alone and with your eyes closed.
There's a difference between decimating an opponent and, defeating after a lot of work, and only just barely.
And you're limiting this to 1v1... I'm not sure why. Champ spawns are a great challenge.
Also, you're limiting this to combat between the combatant and the opponent.
There's an aspect that involves combating one's own self metaphorically in order to find the best technique for combating the enemy.

What is the reason to farm it to kill it 500 times a day for 10 years to prove that it's still a challenge? there is no way they can continue to add unique monsters to challenge us everyday they dont have the resources.
I don't farm anything 500 times. Why would I? It's not fun.

And... I've killed the Stygian Dragon on a swordsman. It took maybe 1-2 hours. It involved a lot of running and dying. You can bet it'd still be a challenge if I tried it again.
Not exactly farming Miasmas here, those are neither challenging nor interesting nor very rewarding... monetarily or psychologically. Anything you can kill 500 times in one day isn't a challenge.
 

Llewen

Grand Inquisitor
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
Campaign Supporter
I don't understand your Sampire dislike. You can take a sampire through all the peerlesses you want but you wont get the good items. So you can solo a paroxy, so what. I do it with a tamer and an archer at 4k luck. I'll kill it quicker and have a better chance at getting awesome items. But that doesn't matter anymore since imbuing came out.

I for one have pretty much stopped playing because there is nothing for me to really do... Loot from treasure chests sucks, strongbox loot has been nerfed to hell, monster farming is not viable any longer, PvP is still there but its the same ol thing day in day out.

:sad4:
I don't get it. The most valuable items are still available from pvm, and if you are doing peerless with a 4000k luck suit you are going to get a lot of relic frags, and there is always the chance that you will get that awesome item that would be better than anything you could imbue.

All of the new artifacts, all of the replicas. Those are incredibly valuable and useful in any context, both pvp and pvm, and those are only available through pvm, and you don't have to go to Fel to get them. There are plenty of champ spawns available with the Trammel rules set.

Frankly I think you may just be burnt out and need a break. There is still plenty to do, and plenty of excitement to be had even for very advanced players, but if you are burnt out, or your imagination is failing you, nothing the devs do will help.

And I'm not saying that this applies to you, but some have killed any challenge the game may have had for them by cheating. If the devs can get that problem under control, some of the issues that some are having with boredom, or whatever it is, will go away. And again, I'm not saying this applies to you, it's just an "aside".
 
S

Stupid Miner

Guest
Now theres no point to kill 10k swoops they won't give you anything better than what you can have in no time. Before there was a point no progression as this is not a game about levels but about the chance to get something that surpass anything you have on your body and even if you don't need it you could sell it to someone who does and use that gold to buy other more important things to you so that you can improve your individual playstyle that brings you enjoyment. But if you did find that items that uyou spend 10k swoops to kill you will treasure it, Feel the accomplishment, even if you never need it again you will mount it and everytime you look at it the sense of accomplishment shall wipe through your soul and you will say to your self" I worked hard for this! I shed blood,tears and time for this! This is my trophy! And let no man look down upon my sucess!".
You have equipment as trophies. For me, that's not ideal since i change tactics/suits/templates frequently, refining them as I think of a new aspect.

I use trophies as trophies. Paragon Chests work well. Have two Paragon Renowned Skeletal Dragon chests. Now Renowned Skeletal dragons don't spawn in Ilsh anymore. So, makes for a pretty great trophy.
Have gotten a Rend and Abcess chest too, currently working on an Ancient Wyrm chest.

I prefer challenges. And if you can grind a monster for hundreds of hours, it means it's probably not very challenging.

You like rewards for perseverance, I prefer rewards for excellent single acts of achievement.
 
U

UOKaiser

Guest
There's a difference between decimating an opponent and, defeating after a lot of work, and only just barely.
And you're limiting this to 1v1... I'm not sure why. Champ spawns are a great challenge.
Also, you're limiting this to combat between the combatant and the opponent.
There's an aspect that involves combating one's own self metaphorically in order to find the best technique for combating the enemy.


I don't farm anything 500 times. Why would I? It's not fun.

And... I've killed the Stygian Dragon on a swordsman. It took maybe 1-2 hours. It involved a lot of running and dying. You can bet it'd still be a challenge if I tried it again.
Not exactly farming Miasmas here, those are neither challenging nor interesting nor very rewarding... monetarily or psychologically. Anything you can kill 500 times in one day isn't a challenge.
Am limitating this only to PVM . PVP does not matter in all this imbuing is a god send to them. The reason we farm monster 500 times because there isn't a different monster comiong out every week for us to kill. These monsters are there today and there tom and were there 5-10-13 years ago and assuming we last another 13 years they will be there 13 years from now as well. To compare this to pvp is like you have a 5 friends that you knew for 10 years and since the time you met them they havent changed there tactics in a vs came like street fighter and you being playing against them for 10 years. Boredom is bound to insure that you will look for other friends to play with variety or the arcades that different people came and you played against them. Sadly you are stuxk in a desert island with them with electricity one game of street fighter and 2 controllers and a tv. This would be UO pvm. This is why there has to be reason to kill these monsters and craft items so there will always be something better to shoot for or you will become bored and swim with the sharks
 

Freelsy

Babbling Loonie
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
I don't get it. The most valuable items are still available from pvm, and if you are doing peerless with a 4000k luck suit you are going to get a lot of relic frags, and there is always the chance that you will get that awesome item that would be better than anything you could imbue.

All of the new artifacts, all of the replicas. Those are incredibly valuable and useful in any context, both pvp and pvm, and those are only available through pvm, and you don't have to go to Fel to get them. There are plenty of champ spawns available with the Trammel rules set.

Frankly I think you may just be burnt out and need a break. There is still plenty to do, and plenty of excitement to be had even for very advanced players, but if you are burnt out, or your imagination is failing you, nothing the devs do will help.

And I'm not saying that this applies to you, but some have killed any challenge the game may have had for them by cheating. If the devs can get that problem under control, some of the issues that some are having with boredom, or whatever it is, will go away. And again, I'm not saying this applies to you, it's just an "aside".
I understand what you're saying. Here's what I'm saying. If I wanna go do a peerless, or kill a new boss from the underworld. I'm no longer killing it for a chance at that artifact AND possibly an uber weapon/jewel. All I'm doing is mindlessly grinding out to get a tangle, or some other special item that a specific monster drops. There is no more excitement in maxing out your luck in hopes of finding a weapon you can take to the bank and show off.

That was one of the major things I loved to do. Acquire insane gear and show it off. Yeah, I got that one and I'm the only one that has something like this. When I've had my fill, sell it off and make a very nice profit off of it.

To respond to your statement about the relic frags. In doing many Mels, and unraveling her stuff. I get on average 15 relics between 3500-4000 luck. Then you think about it. Takes 2 seconds to burn a hammer and get 2-3x that many. To your other point. The artifacts/replicas whatever. You don't need to wear luck to increase your chances at getting one. Its all RNG. If you're "lucky" to get one you'll get one.

I wanna kill that high end boss to have a chance at some awesome loot items as well as my chance at getting the special items.
 
U

UOKaiser

Guest
I don't get it. The most valuable items are still available from pvm, and if you are doing peerless with a 4000k luck suit you are going to get a lot of relic frags, and there is always the chance that you will get that awesome item that would be better than anything you could imbue.

All of the new artifacts, all of the replicas. Those are incredibly valuable and useful in any context, both pvp and pvm, and those are only available through pvm, and you don't have to go to Fel to get them. There are plenty of champ spawns available with the Trammel rules set.

Frankly I think you may just be burnt out and need a break. There is still plenty to do, and plenty of excitement to be had even for very advanced players, but if you are burnt out, or your imagination is failing you, nothing the devs do will help.

And I'm not saying that this applies to you, but some have killed any challenge the game may have had for them by cheating. If the devs can get that problem under control, some of the issues that some are having with boredom, or whatever it is, will go away. And again, I'm not saying this applies to you, it's just an "aside".
The problem is the valuable items you are refering to are only rares. You can name them all and eventualy you can get them all then thats it. Fragments and essences are very easy to aquire for trammel players. PVP players probably have harder time as they don't use most of there Uo life to do trammel activities. Siege players are also excluded in these scenerios there system is different. You cant cheat in pvm or crafting. you cant cheat against a speedhacking monster that has 10k plus hp and can cast and hit at the same time faster than you can say OH. You can only cheat against other players and thats a PVP-fel-siege thing. So even dev getting that under control will not help against the inevitable end game for trammel life.
 

Llewen

Grand Inquisitor
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
Campaign Supporter
That was one of the major things I loved to do. Acquire insane gear and show it off. Yeah, I got that one and I'm the only one that has something like this. When I've had my fill, sell it off and make a very nice profit off of it.
Those items are still out there, they are just harder to find. But you can get drops off of bosses that are better than anything you can imbue, and wearing 4000 luck will increase your chances of that. It's just a hell of a lot harder to find items like that than it used to be to find items you could sell for a fortune.

And then you can take your chances enhancing them... Unfortunately wearing 4000 luck doesn't help with that...
 
U

UOKaiser

Guest
I understand what you're saying. Here's what I'm saying. If I wanna go do a peerless, or kill a new boss from the underworld. I'm no longer killing it for a chance at that artifact AND possibly an uber weapon/jewel. All I'm doing is mindlessly grinding out to get a tangle, or some other special item that a specific monster drops. There is no more excitement in maxing out your luck in hopes of finding a weapon you can take to the bank and show off.

That was one of the major things I loved to do. Acquire insane gear and show it off. Yeah, I got that one and I'm the only one that has something like this. When I've had my fill, sell it off and make a very nice profit off of it.

To respond to your statement about the relic frags. In doing many Mels, and unraveling her stuff. I get on average 15 relics between 3500-4000 luck. Then you think about it. Takes 2 seconds to burn a hammer and get 2-3x that many. To your other point. The artifacts/replicas whatever. You don't need to wear luck to increase your chances at getting one. Its all RNG. If you're "lucky" to get one you'll get one.

I wanna kill that high end boss to have a chance at some awesome loot items as well as my chance at getting the special items.
Hear!Hear! This is as close as the truth as it gets. This is the problem many trammel player face now. This forum has mainly PVP players. But UO has mainly trammel type players. This is what I see in the giant network of trammel players I belong with and this is what they see in there associations with other players of Trammel.
 
U

UOKaiser

Guest
Those items are still out there, they are just harder to find. But you can get drops off of bosses that are better than anything you can imbue, and wearing 4000 luck will increase your chances of that. It's just a hell of a lot harder to find items like that than it used to be to find items you could sell for a fortune.

And then you can take your chances enhancing them... Unfortunately wearing 4000 luck doesn't help with that...
You can't. Other than rares you can name you cannot in no way get anything better. Monster loot is caped at around 450 intensity and to have 450 intensity to fall exactly the way it needs it will take 30+years of constant pvm for a item still weaker than a imbued perfect 500intensity item.
And a fortune to billionear means 500 trillion gold. A fortune to a newbie means 50k gold and a fortune to a mid player means 100million gold. And a fortune for a average player means 1billion gold and a fortune for someone who lives on test center means nothing.
While the average fortune in 1998 meant 100k and a fortune in 2000 meant 1million gold and a fortune in 2006 meant 100million gold and a fortune in 2010 means a billion and up.
But while the average amount of the player increases as more gold enters the game and players leave therefore redistributing there gold to the rest of the player base. item prices decreases in turn making richer players richer and poorer players poorer.
 

Freelsy

Babbling Loonie
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
Here's what i'm talking about. These are some items I took pics of that I either crafted or looted off of peerless monsters.








Now those are some amazing items pre-imbue. Now everyone has better items than that and those are about as good as they come from being crafted/farmed up.
 

Llewen

Grand Inquisitor
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
Campaign Supporter
You can't. Other than rares you can name you cannot in no way get anything better. Monster loot is caped at around 450 intensity and to have 450 intensity to fall exactly the way it needs it will take 30+years of constant pvm for a item still weaker than a imbued perfect 500intensity item.
I didn't think there was a total intensity cap for high end mob loot. I thought the only cap was five properties. If there is a cap, there shouldn't be, so maybe that is something that could be changed.

Here's what i'm talking about. These are some items I took pics of that I either crafted or looted off of peerless monsters.

Now those are some amazing items pre-imbue. Now everyone has better items than that and those are about as good as they come from being crafted/farmed up.
Well, I know what you are saying. I had a ring pre-imbuing that was a 3/1 ring with 15 tame 6 med and 50+ luck thrown in. That was my favourite item and I built my whole suit around it. Now it is worthless, I can't even unravel it for a relic I don't think. But that's ok, times change and I'll keep it for the memories.
 
U

UOKaiser

Guest
You see. The basic problem is they messed up in there calculations. The premise was to group all random and fixed items into 3 groups low end=magic residue mid range=enchanted essence and high end= relic fragment.
This allowed many advantages. People would get to customize there items. They didn't need to suffer through random system and still will need to aquire them the same way as always by hunting yet now they have a way to judge it's value in a basic form
They had a time schedule so they put many things live before properly testing the consequence. Saying to themself they can revert anything they need to. Sadly the cat got out the bag. many easy ways to make relic fragments,enchanted essenses emerged and everytime someone mention it or post in the forum they played catch up trying to nerf that way. But the damage was done. Relic fragments became so abundant that the system crashed in itsef.
Even Mark still beleives it takes 30+ high end magic items to get relic fragments.

The categoring of items went nowhere. Everything was abundant and easy over flooding the system and making all previouse long standing systems useless. It was a repeat of AOS from people having silver vanquashing weapons being made useless. But this time it was every established system that got hit.

Maybe if they made relic fragments needed for most of all the highest mod on every mod. And also make relic fragments only obtainable from peerless type monsters weapon and item drops and obtained from val,verite,agapite hammers with gold hammers yielding both relic and enchanted essence then bronze hammers yileding enchanted and copper yielding mostly magic residue and some enchanted and shadow and dull only yielding magic residue.
then with tailoring only barbed yielding relic rarely and enchanted more often and Horned yielding only enchanted and spine yielding only magic residue.
Same with saw runics/fletcher kits. Then maybe it could of stayed balance with weaker mods given less odds to get enchanted and lower or relics very rarely because. To make it clear they don't give relics there items that are made gives these materials. Then maybe we could of balanced the system right but it's too late now. Changes like this now won't undo what has happend.

This miscalculation was the big mistake that was made. I hope the DEV that left informed of what happend to MARk and the others that was left behind. If not I am informing them now. This is not opinion this is fact from well lets just leave it as just being fact.
 
U

UOKaiser

Guest
I didn't think there was a total intensity cap for high end mob loot. I thought the only cap was five properties. If there is a cap, there shouldn't be, so maybe that is something that could be changed.



Well, I know what you are saying. I had a ring pre-imbuing that was a 3/1 ring with 15 tame 6 med and 50+ luck thrown in. That was my favourite item and I built my whole suit around it. Now it is worthless, I can't even unravel it for a relic I don't think. But that's ok, times change and I'll keep it for the memories.
When they put the 500 exceptional and 450 regular item caps for imbuing i beleive it applied to all loot. As no monster can spawn exceptional items it stand s to beleive the 450 intensity is stuck with monster loot.
Even if this is false there is no way someone should hunt for a long time just to get close to the mods that you can get with imbuing. As long as there is a simpler system all will op for the simper system unless they are natural born masochist.

That ring that you have would of being a wonderful accomplishment and proof of your hard work in aquiring such a item. Now it's just a waste of time to try to aquire any way other than imbuing.And imbuing is so easy.
 
S

Stupid Miner

Guest
Am limitating this only to PVM . PVP does not matter in all this imbuing is a god send to them. The reason we farm monster 500 times because there isn't a different monster comiong out every week for us to kill. These monsters are there today and there tom and were there 5-10-13 years ago and assuming we last another 13 years they will be there 13 years from now as well. To compare this to pvp is like you have a 5 friends that you knew for 10 years and since the time you met them they havent changed there tactics in a vs came like street fighter and you being playing against them for 10 years. Boredom is bound to insure that you will look for other friends to play with variety or the arcades that different people came and you played against them. Sadly you are stuxk in a desert island with them with electricity one game of street fighter and 2 controllers and a tv. This would be UO pvm. This is why there has to be reason to kill these monsters and craft items so there will always be something better to shoot for or you will become bored and swim with the sharks
You mistook my meaning, I wasn't addressing PvP at all.
 
U

UOKaiser

Guest
You mistook my meaning, I wasn't addressing PvP at all.
My mistake. But we must agree imbuing is a great system.It is also fun. For PVP is definetely a godsend. Though were we both don't agree is the impact on trammel. It would of being glorious if it went the way it was planned. Sadly things never turn out the way people plan it. Players are very resourceful If there is a way to do things they will find it and milk the hell out of it.
 

Harlequin

Babbling Loonie
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
We've been looking at this for a while now, but it would require us first to create a centralized bank. Currently, your "bank" is actually stored on your character and is not accessible when you are not online. We would need some kind of bank to put your payment in so that you don't have to be online to make the transaction. This is not out of the question, it's just a bigger task than it may appear on the surface.
You have probably thought of this, but just throwing out ideas - you can use the old public bulletin boards system (the old bounty hunting ones) for placing an order plus the defunct mail system for delivery.

The order deed has info on the stats he wants and what he is willing to pay for it. Requestor then posts order deed on bulletin boaed, the amount he is willing to pay is deducted from his bank account immediately.

Interested crafters can reply/leave a mark (their char names will be shown) on the bulletin board for this post to let others know someone has already picked this up. A deed for the item is created on the crafter's pack. More than 1 crafter can mark it and compete against each other to see who can complete the order first and get the prize money.

Once crafter completes the item, he dbl clicks on the order deed on the finished product. Deed and item disappears and is replaced by a check for what the buyer paid.

Item is sent via the mail system to the buyer's bank the next time he logs in. A message will inform him of this.

Not sure how this will pan out, but might save some development time if you can reuse existing codes.



Other ideas-
1) gold sink - posting on bulletin board will require a
service charge, say 5% of the cost of the item. Refundable if no one picks up the order and buyer cancels.

2) do away with having deeds, buyer and seller have to interact directly with bullitin board to place/turn in orders.

3) have a random mob deliver the item eg effreet, cupid, gargoyle, stork/crane or even an owl (for harry potter fans). Note : Item is delivered to the buyers bankbox directly, the random delivery mobs are just for immersion.
 

Violence

Lore Keeper
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
I'm not missunderstanding anything here UOKaiser.. Seriously, go through all those insurance, cheating and what-not debates and you'll see this is just like them.

As for your opinion about imbuing I just don't share the same views, don't fret over it and seriously DO NOT assume I'm not agreeing simply because I do not understand. That's cheap.

The skill allows you to build items. That's all there is to it. You're stretching this beyond its limits if you know what I mean. It had an impact in the game, and if AOS was done properly I'd say it could have been a negative impact. As things are now, imbuing IMPROVED just about everyone's game experience. Do certain templates dominate because of easily-obtained items? Yes.. That's a fault in templates' mechanics, not in items or imbuing.

I'd like EA/M to expand on this system and maybe try to enhance it with mechanics that will "force" players to interact more, but that wouldn't be right. And as it is, imbuing does absolutely nothing towards what you're saying.. And honestly, PVP crafters and PVM crafters? What exactly are you on about?.. And where did I ever bring up Felucca/Trammel issues or mentioned you being "forced" to play in Felucca due to scrolls?

Get it straight, I don't care. I only want to play. If I'm champ-hunting it's because it's fun to be there with my friends as there are occassional fights. And that's the reason I play obviously. What's the reason you play? To feel NEEDED? Well, tough luck. I am not paying EA/M to NEED anyone, as far as equipping my characters goes. If the game is fun, I'll interact with other players having fun. Some of them are able to enjoy the game through crafting- Some through healing others. And some through farming. If I want something they have I interact with them, as I refuse to build an imbuer, as an example. But I don't need a nerf to imbuing or to sell power scrolls to draw everyone around me and most of the players I've met, don't either.

As for PVP guilds not building community and such.. Sorry, got to disagree. If that was so I'd have to revive my PVMer, crafter, build an imbuer and finish up my tamer in training. Come to think of it, even then I'd still enjoy simply playing with my friends regardless of the template. But for now I can simply rely on them and it feels more comfortable doing it out of personal CHOICE than it being forced on me. I hope I'm giving you an example you can understand with all this.

All in all I can't help but tell you once more that you appear to simply be whining out of feeling lonely and bored in Ultima Online, which is your problem, not the game's. And the same goes for your opinion that the game's become too fast-paced. After a decade and more I want some things FAST, it's natural. It takes absolutely NOTHING off my enjoyment. So each to their own I guess.
 
Top