What drew my attention - UOHOC

[Violence]

Axel_Mythic- We got a large art patch coming up for Pub66.5 to fix some of the Gargoyle armor issues.

The thing is, there are a lot more art issues than just Garg stuff. There's a nice thread about certain fashion disasters, it's worth a look. rolleyes:

Mythic_Phoenix - We've never had plans to abandon the 2D client and we will continue to support it.

Wait a second..? I could swear EA/M had mentioned that 2D would eventually be abandoned! I have nothing against that client except that it's more prone to cheats, if you know what I mean..

I haven't been following UOHOC sessions but I'd definitely like to know if and when is there going to be another. I'd love to bring up poisoning and potions obviously.. Anyone knows?

 

[JC the Builder]

I could swear EA/M had mentioned that 2D would eventually be abandoned!

They will only drop the 2D Client if enough players switch to the new one. That has not happened and is unlikely to without major changes to the Enhanced Client.

 

[Llewen]

They will only drop the 2D Client if enough players switch to the new one. That has not happened and is unlikely to without major changes to the Enhanced Client.

Most who are used to the 2D client won't change to the Enhanced Client no matter what is done with it. It has nothing to do with how good the Enhanced Client is, it is a comfort thing and an emotional thing. People don't like change, and they don't like relearning something that they feel they are good at.

And then there is the whole matter of third party cheats. As long as "The-Program-Which-Shall-Not-Be-Named" can be used with the Classic Client without any consequences, the people that use it will never change clients, and there are an awful lot of people using "The-Program-Which-Shall-Not-Be-Named".

 

[Trebr Drab]

Most who are used to the 2D client won't change to the Enhanced Client no matter what is done with it. It has nothing to do with how good the Enhanced Client is, it is a comfort thing and an emotional thing. People don't like change, and they don't like relearning something that they feel they are good at.

You're wrong about this. Don't tell other people how they think. There are loads of reasons that are beyond preference.

And then there is the whole matter of third party cheats. As long as "The-Program-Which-Shall-Not-Be-Named" can be used with the Classic Client without any consequences, the people that use it will never change clients, and there are an awful lot of people using "The-Program-Which-Shall-Not-Be-Named".

The only reason that the old client has more cheats related to it is because that's the one that the cheats were written for. If it goes away, any new client will become the subject of cheater script attention. So it really doesn't matter. Insinuating that those of us who want the old client do because we want the cheat programs is not only ludicrous, but an insult. Blow it up your chimney. However, I'm with you on the anti cheat sentiments otherwise.

 

[Cetric]

Most who are used to the 2D client won't change to the Enhanced Client no matter what is done with it. It has nothing to do with how good the Enhanced Client is, it is a comfort thing and an emotional thing. People don't like change, and they don't like relearning something that they feel they are good at.

And then there is the whole matter of third party cheats. As long as "The-Program-Which-Shall-Not-Be-Named" can be used with the Classic Client without any consequences, the people that use it will never change clients, and there are an awful lot of people using "The-Program-Which-Shall-Not-Be-Named".

Until they make scrolling with the mouse wheel-last target function correctly

http://vboards.stratics.com/showthread.php?t=194239

I cannot fully function in PVP on a mage in the EC, and will not subject myself to being worse. If they figure this out, which bteng found the cause, but never came abck with a solution, then i will be happy.


If you read the thread, it is possible to move your scroll mouse once to get the desired effect. but if you "roll" it, it overcasts spells.

Outside of that as well though, pvp in the enhanced client is just choppy and nasty looking. The male paperdolls look terrible. The environment VS the chars or mobs is hard to distinguish quickly like you can in classic. There are alot of features i like in the EC, and im sure the modders guys can't really make it a fun and useful client, but i have never gotten past the inability to really pvp on the client (specifically on a mage), and therefore, have never delved much deeper into it.

Someone posted a while back of a 2d client, where several people took random art files, and upped the resolution on them considerably. The result was just amazing, it would be great to play. Why they had to use a goofy engine rather than find a way to update the resolution of 2d is beyond me.

 

[Llewen]

Most who are used to the 2D client won't change to the Enhanced Client no matter what is done with it. It has nothing to do with how good the Enhanced Client is, it is a comfort thing and an emotional thing. People don't like change, and they don't like relearning something that they feel they are good at.

You're wrong about this. Don't tell other people how they think. There are loads of reasons that are beyond preference.

And then there is the whole matter of third party cheats. As long as "The-Program-Which-Shall-Not-Be-Named" can be used with the Classic Client without any consequences, the people that use it will never change clients, and there are an awful lot of people using "The-Program-Which-Shall-Not-Be-Named".

The only reason that the old client has more cheats related to it is because that's the one that the cheats were written for. If it goes away, any new client will become the subject of cheater script attention. So it really doesn't matter. Insinuating that those of us who want the old client do because we want the cheat programs is not only ludicrous, but an insult. Blow it up your chimney. However, I'm with you on the anti cheat sentiments otherwise.

I've used both clients extensively. There are no good reasons beyond those I've given for preferring the classic client over the enhanced client, with the exception of a few who can't run the enhanced client on old machines, or on minimal hardware configurations such as notebook computers.

There are a few models in the enhanced client which aren't great, and there are a few art issues such as hue variations in certain pets not showing (ie. pure black nightmares, and pure white white wyrms etc.), but there are plenty of enhanced models that look far better than their classic equivalents. And when it comes to the environment, for all intents and purposes it uses the same art, and looks exactly the same.

For the most part it's all about comfort, emotional attachment, and 3rd party apps.

- The macro functionality in the enhanced client is vastly superior to that in the classic client, and in many ways better than the classic client combined with UOA.
- The enhanced client is more stable.
- The enhanced client allows you to use your whole screen on current monitors.
- The enhanced client UI is customizable and there are some very nice UI mods available for it.
- The enhanced client provides more stable movement rates and is less affected by connectivity issues and latency.
- The enhanced client has auto avoid on every movement axis.

And I could go on. There were some performance issues, but those have been fixed for the most part.

 

[Llewen]

Outside of that as well though, pvp in the enhanced client is just choppy and nasty looking. The male paperdolls look terrible. The environment VS the chars or mobs is hard to distinguish quickly like you can in classic. There are alot of features i like in the EC, and im sure the modders guys can't really make it a fun and useful client, but i have never gotten past the inability to really pvp on the client (specifically on a mage), and therefore, have never delved much deeper into it.

I'm a far better pvp'r with the enhanced client than I ever was with the classic client, on any template. But I did have to relearn the game in many ways when I switched. It took me a good three months to get comfortable with the enhanced client, but it was worth it.

If you expect to be able to do everything exactly the same way as you do it in the classic client, of course you are going to think the enhanced client sucks. But once you become comfortable with the enhanced client, you will find there are so many things that are easier, or work better in the enhanced client, that it will improve your game.

But you have to give it a solid chance, and most of the enhanced client haters simply haven't given the client a proper chance. But anyway, it wasn't my intention to turn this into an enhanced versus classic client war.

 

[Cetric]

I'm a far better pvp'r with the enhanced client than I ever was with the classic client, on any template. But I did have to relearn the game in many ways when I switched. It took me a good three months to get comfortable with the enhanced client, but it was worth it.

If you expect to be able to do everything exactly the same way as you do it in the classic client, of course you are going to think the enhanced client sucks. But once you become comfortable with the enhanced client, you will find there are so many things that are easier, or work better in the enhanced client, that it will improve your game.

But you have to give it a solid chance, and most of the enhanced client haters simply haven't given the client a proper chance. But anyway, it wasn't my intention to turn this into an enhanced versus classic client war.

Well give me a suggestion then.

If you play a mage, what do you have setup for last target (if you have to click a button i won't bother, as it is just too slow for a mage's purposes) I key spells with my left hand, and scroll the mouse wheel for last target with my right, if you cannot do something similiar to this in EC, then it just ends up being inferior, as you will cast spells much slower. But i look forward to hopefully hearing something you do that makes this process seemless and effective.

BTeng gave some suggestions, but the mouse wheel seems to be the fastest way to dump combos on your opponent, and switching to something else seems out of the question. I have tried several different combination of things (and i am actually downloading UOSA at work right now to test another thought of mine) but nothing came close enough to the true function.

 

[Llewen]

Well give me a suggestion then.

If you play a mage, what do you have setup for last target (if you have to click a button i won't bother, as it is just too slow for a mage's purposes) I key spells with my left hand, and scroll the mouse wheel for last target with my right, if you cannot do something similiar to this in EC, then it just ends up being inferior, as you will cast spells much slower. But i look forward to hopefully hearing something you do that makes this process seemless and effective.

BTeng gave some suggestions, but the mouse wheel seems to be the fastest way to dump combos on your opponent, and switching to something else seems out of the question. I have tried several different combination of things (and i am actually downloading UOSA at work right now to test another thought of mine) but nothing came close enough to the true function.

Well, let's get something straight first, I'm not the world's greatest mage. I'm far better than I used to be, and I'm actually competitive as a mage now, which I never was, but I'm still not great.

Having said that, I don't use last target. I use current target. All I need to do is have my target set and use current target in my macros, and I don't need to worry about targeting. Casting spells is just a matter of clicking my macro key, or clicking a hotbar icon. And the thing is because I don't need to worry about the targeting I can cast small spells like magic arrow or fireball with virtually no time lost between casts, even if I'm interrupted, because all I need to do is hold down a key, or click the icon like mad, and I can click extremely fast.

I can use my mouse wheel to switch between targets, but more often I just click on my target's bar and that makes it the current target and from then on I only need to choose that target again if it goes out of range, or invis's.

The thing is with the enhanced client I can use the thumb joystick on my G13 for movement, something I can't do with the classic client. This leaves me free to use my mouse for targeting, and with the UI mod I use I have a full list of all mobiles in range on screen where I can just click on the bar and it becomes my current target, or I can use my mouse wheel to scroll through them.

Targeting is very easy and I probably acquire targets as fast, or faster, than anyone using the classic client. I don't need to pull health bars, although I can if I want because it can be useful for dealing with stealthers and ninjas especially, but even pulling health bars is easier than it is in the classic client because all I need to do is choose the bar from my mobiles list, and click and drag.

 

[Shelleybean]

I've used both clients extensively. There are no good reasons beyond those I've given for preferring the classic client over the enhanced client, with the exception of a few who can't run the enhanced client on old machines, or on minimal hardware configurations such as notebook computers.....

I couldn't disagree more. Movement in the enhanced client makes me nauseous in real life. I can't explain it, but it has nothing to do with any emotional attachment or old machine. (I don't have this problem playing World of Warcraft.) I've played UO for a long time, but I was still willing to give the new client a shot because it has a lot of nice features. Some of the graphics are really pretty too, like the plants, flowers and water features. However, being nauseous is a big downside, one I'm not willing to endure for a game.

 

[Cetric]

Well, let's get something straight first, I'm not the world's greatest mage. I'm far better than I used to be, and I'm actually competitive as a mage now, which I never was, but I'm still not great.

Having said that, I don't use last target. I use current target. All I need to do is have my target set and use current target in my macros, and I don't need to worry about targeting. Casting spells is just a matter of clicking my macro key, or clicking a hotbar icon. And the thing is because I don't need to worry about the targeting I can cast small spells like magic arrow or fireball like lightning, even if I'm interrupted, because all I need to do is hold down a key, or click the icon like mad, and I can click extremely fast.

I can use my mouse wheel to switch between targets, but more often I just click on my target's bar and that makes it the current target and from then on I only need to choose that target again if it goes out of range, or invis's.

The thing is with the enhanced client I can use the thumb joystick on my G13 for movement, something I can't do with the classic client. This leaves me free to use my mouse for targeting, and with the UI mod I use I have a full list of all mobiles in range on screen where I can just click on the bar and it becomes my current target, or I can use my mouse wheel to scroll through them.

Targeting is very easy and I probably acquire targets as fast, or faster, than anyone using the classic client. I don't need to pull health bars, although I can if I want because it can be useful for dealing with stealthers and ninjas especially, but even pulling health bars is easier than it is in the classic client because all I need to do is choose the bar from my mobiles list, and click and drag.

Thanks, few questions though. What button do you have your Current Target set on. Also, you mentioned that if someone goes off screen or invises, you have to reselect them as your target? Sheesh. That seems absurd, no offense. In classic you can make someone your last target, and if you don't target anything else, they stay that way. This means, if someone is hidden and i have them at last target, and they are revealed, i can instantly cast on them. Also, in pvp, mages tend to run off and on screen for recasting purposes and to avoid disrupts, if i lost my target every time this happened...oh my god lol. Can you confirm that is what happens before i get bent out of shape? lol


PS, can you send me the ui mod you mentioned, i'd like to check it out.

 

[Cetric]

I couldn't disagree more. Movement in the enhanced client makes me nauseous in real life. I can't explain it, but it has nothing to do with any emotional attachment or old machine. (I don't have this problem playing World of Warcraft.) I've played UO for a long time, but I was still willing to give the new client a shot because it has a lot of nice features. Some of the graphics are really pretty too, like the plants, flowers and water features. However, being nauseous is a big downside, one I'm not willing to endure for a game.

I thought the same thing. honestly it is probably 2 things, either we have Vertigo (i doubt it) or we are just THAT used to the classic client.

 

[JC the Builder]

Most who are used to the 2D client won't change to the Enhanced Client no matter what is done with it. It has nothing to do with how good the Enhanced Client is, it is a comfort thing and an emotional thing. People don't like change, and they don't like relearning something that they feel they are good at.

It has nothing to do with comfort. It has everything to do with how the client was designed.

Animations are jerky.
Graphics are ugly.
Performance is terrible.

That is all there is to it. Fixing a bug here and there isn't going to resolve these issues. If I had to guess, the entire client would need a rewrite to be fixed.

It also does not help at all that one of the most enticing features, customization, was implemented completely wrong. I should be able to install any number of modifications I want. But no, instead they decided to go with a one mod only system. Every other MMO that does this sort of thing lets you install multiple mods. How did they screw the Enhanced Client up so badly?

 

[Cetric]

It has nothing to do with comfort. It has everything to do with how the client was designed.

Animations are jerky.
Graphics are ugly.
Performance is terrible.

That is all there is to it. Fixing a bug here and there isn't going to resolve these issues. If I had to guess, the entire client would need a rewrite to be fixed.

I also felt the same, damnit.


I was going to try to look past it, but being the performance junky i am, maybe i should stop trying to force it on myself lol.

 

[MalagAste]

There are a whole lot of things that need fixed in the EC ....

Lists and lists of them.

Need to fix the change between the EC and the CC for starters....

My backpack going from EC to CC is a disaster... There is NO reason for that.

Same with chests and the trade window...

that is the barest tip of the EC fix list iceberg.

 

[Llewen]

I couldn't disagree more. Movement in the enhanced client makes me nauseous in real life. I can't explain it, but it has nothing to do with any emotional attachment or old machine. (I don't have this problem playing World of Warcraft.)

This is a real issue. Some 3D games make some people nauseous, and it happens with some 3D games, and not with others. WoW makes me mildly nauseous, and the old Half-Life was pretty bad for that, but with other 3D games I don't have any problems. Usually for me once I get used to the game it will almost entirely go away, but for some people it doesn't, and for some people it can be severe. This is a real issue, and I'm not belittling this one.

Thanks, few questions though. What button do you have your Current Target set on. Also, you mentioned that if someone goes off screen or invises, you have to reselect them as your target? Sheesh. That seems absurd, no offense. In classic you can make someone your last target, and if you don't target anything else, they stay that way. This means, if someone is hidden and i have them at last target, and they are revealed, i can instantly cast on them. Also, in pvp, mages tend to run off and on screen for recasting purposes and to avoid disrupts, if i lost my target every time this happened...oh my god lol. Can you confirm that is what happens before i get bent out of shape? lol

I don't have Current Target set on a button, it is a targeting option for all spells. Most offensive spells I have on current target, and if there is no current target you get a cursor. And yes, if they go off screen, or invis, you do have to reselect them as the current target, but I don't find this to be a big deal. They generally appear on my mobile display before they are within spell range anyway, so it's just a matter of a click, and if they are a stealther I just pull their health bar and click on that when they come within range.

And a lot of things were fixed in pub 66, it may well be that the last target works properly now. I just don't know because I don't use it, although maybe I should...

PS, can you send me the ui mod you mentioned, i'd like to check it out.

Lucis Interface

It hasn't been updated for publish 66 yet, and as of pub 66 the default UI now has a mobiles display. If you do use this mod there is a file you should delete having to do with container displays, the information is in the thread, until Lucitus releases an update. This mod does have some really cool features though, although several of it's features have now been integrated into the default UI.

 

[Llewen]

My backpack going from EC to CC is a disaster... There is NO reason for that.

Same with chests and the trade window...

I don't get this one. If you use the legacy mode the contents of the containers look almost identical, and you have the added benefit of being able to switch easily between modes in ways that allow you to use the best features of both the enhanced and legacy container views.

For example, I can open a container full of crap in enhanced list mode with makes it easy to find items, then switch to legacy mode, open another container, and the first container I opened stays in list mode, so I get the flexibility of the legacy mode in the container I am moving items to, while maintaining the ability to find jumbled items easily in the enhanced mode in the first container I opened.

The only thing about legacy mode in the enhanced client is that placing things is a bit... finicky... However, once you get used to it, it isn't so bad.

 

[Cetric]

is it just me, or does the legacy backpack in the EC look horrendous?


Also, has anyone ever said anything about making the male paperdoll look better, like the female one looks great, but the male looks like a hunched over old man.

 

[Llewen]

is it just me, or does the legacy backpack in the EC look horrendous?

I don't understand, the containers in legacy mode look pretty much identical to the containers in the classic client. The only issue I've found is the scale of the backpack seemed a bit odd to me when I first used the EC, but I got used to that pretty quickly.

And yes they are working on the male paperdoll model. I guess I just don't see my paperdoll model being a game breaking issue. My ugly dragons bother me a lot more, but they are working on that as well...

 

[Sergul'zan_SP]

The previous dev team said they would eliminate the 2D client eventually...but they took it back I believe. This team hasn't said anything about abandoning the client.

Different staff, different course of action.

 

[Llewen]

Animations are jerky.
Graphics are ugly.
Performance is terrible.

That's funny, going back to the 2D client now I find the animations look odd and jerky in it, and as for the general "graphics are ugly" statement, I already addressed that I think. The environment is virtually identical, and some of the models are uglier, and some of them are better. I'd say overall the enhanced client looks better. But as I said, it's a comfort thing.

And most of the serious performance issues have been fixed. But even when I was having performance issues, I still moved faster and was affected by lag less in the enhanced client.

 

[Lord GOD(GOD)]

There is no reason to change client.

 

[Martyna Zmuir]

They said they would fix the male paperdoll when they redid the female one back when KR went live... They then said they would redo the male paperdoll last December.

We're still waiting...

As for the backpack situation...

EC and 2D use different systems entirely. Legacy backpack mode is an approximation of 2D's, but it is not the same. I prefer grid view so I can see each and every little thing. I put things like spellbooks and runebooks (or anything I don't need to fiddle with because of the hotbars or macros) at the bottom of my pack and leave the top slots free for loot.

For the rare times I use 2D, my pack is a disaster.. If I move things in the 2D pack, when I sitch back to the EC... my pack is a disaster.. *sigh*


The targeting that Cetric is talking about... First, turn OFF legacy targeting - it sucks. Your 'current target' will ALWAYS have a bar on your screen as long as it is in range and visible. There are macro options to selecting targets, both hostile and friendly so you can scroll through them - the mouse wheel support had degraded significantly recently.

As for the art... *sigh* Upsizing the 2D art was a mistake.. It looks god-awful, and it doesn't go well with the high-res backgrounds (ground). Certain aspects of the KR art (many plants, most building art) should have been kept, while others (like nearly every item) completely redone.

I keep hoping for a massive art update which fixes things. Sadly, however, I'm very pessimistic about the outcome of such an update...

 

[Cetric]

Thanks ont he targetting part martyna. But honestly, using amcros to target cycle between hostiles/friendlys seems like just way to much work. From a pvp standpoint, you need to make such split second decisions, and cycling through till i get the enemy that i want, the friendly, etc etc, seems like such a waste of necessary time. thank you though.

 

[Llewen]

Thanks ont he targetting part martyna. But honestly, using amcros to target cycle between hostiles/friendlys seems like just way to much work. From a pvp standpoint, you need to make such split second decisions, and cycling through till i get the enemy that i want, the friendly, etc etc, seems like such a waste of necessary time. thank you though.

Ok, let's compare acquiring targets between the classic and enhanced clients.

- Classic Client: A hostile party is approaching. You don't see them until they actually move into your desktop viewing area. You want to acquire a target, you have to click on a fast moving mobile or their name. If you want to pull up their health bar, you have to click and drag on that same fast moving mobile, and you have to do that for every mobile on screen that you want to see their health bar.

- Enhanced Client: A hostile party is approaching. I see a list of every mobile on my desktop, with health bars, before they actually appear on my desktop viewing area. All I have to do to acquire a target is click on the health bar in the list, or if I use a cursor I can target them directly on that list. If I want to pull someone's bar, I just click on their bar in the list and drag from that, but I already have a health bar for every mobile in range in that list. And if you are using Luci's Interface you can filter the list so that, for example, invulnerable targets don't appear in the list. I can also have various target options bound to my mouse wheel so I can just spin my wheel to acquire a target, which can be faster if there are only a few targets approaching.

Acquiring a target in the enhanced client is faster, and you have a lot more options for how you do it. I'm guessing I have won a number of pvp battles because I had already targeted and attacked my opponent while they were still fumbling around trying to grab my bar.

 

[Martyna Zmuir]

As long as you have a target selected, and you can perform actions on the target, any spell you cast will automatically be applied to said target.

So say you target an orc (it has the targeting recticle spinning around its feet) and you cast Flamestrike - as long as its in range the spell will hit it. Should you need to cast another, simply do so and as long as its still a valid target you will hit it again. (The EC basicly has an auto last target)

The macros you make can have targets asigned to them... Like Self, Current Target, Cursor, etc. Same goes for hotbar slots.

I strongly suggest you play around with the targeting in a low-level PvM setting till you get the hang of it. Its actually pretty easy, and FAR superior to the CC/UOA.

 

[Lord GOD(GOD)]

- Classic Client: A hostile party is approaching. You don't see them until they actually move into your desktop viewing area. You want to acquire a target, you have to click on a fast moving mobile or their name. If you want to pull up their health bar, you have to click and drag on that same fast moving mobile, and you have to do that for every mobile on screen that you want to see their health bar.

No you don't. You have three/four options.

1. You can target them manually.
2. You can try and grab their bar, either manually or with Ctrl + Shift handles.
3. You can use the original, and still working perfectly adequately, TargetNext macro followed by LastTarget for cursors or AttackLast for warriors/flagging. Can even be done on multiple lines for single key presses. This also automatically places a mini HP bar underneath the target, which are the same colour as the target, so its easy to determine if you're on friend or foe (so you can use the same macro for xhealing friends). You can also make very easy macros with this to arm your specials at the same time, or with UOA you can have a macro that (for example) Dismounts you, tells your pet to kill the target, primes a special and attacks the target all on one key.
4. You can use the new system that was added which is basically the same as the EC's, it has TargetNextMobile and TargetNextFriendly and all that stuff. Personally I didn't like it when it was added so promptly turned it off and continued using the original system (as did most other people who found getting an HP bar for boxes they opened annoying).

What was it you said again 'you've used both extensively'? Really sounds it.

 

[Gheed]

The thing is, there are a lot more art issues than just Garg stuff. There's a nice thread about certain fashion disasters, it's worth a look. rolleyes:


Wait a second..? I could swear EA/M had mentioned that 2D would eventually be abandoned! I have nothing against that client except that it's more prone to cheats, if you know what I mean..

I haven't been following UOHOC sessions but I'd definitely like to know if and when is there going to be another. I'd love to bring up poisoning and potions obviously.. Anyone knows?

Yes the comment about 2D being here to stay caught my eye as well.. I was happy to see the hint of another expansion though it was packed full of plausible deniability. And I am happy to see EC getting more attention lately. I would really like to see the devs focus on that a bit more.

 

[Llewen]

No you don't. You have three/four options.

1. You can target them manually.
2. You can try and grab their bar, either manually or with Ctrl + Shift handles.
3. You can use the original, and still working perfectly adequately, TargetNext macro followed by LastTarget for cursors or AttackLast for warriors/flagging. Can even be done on multiple lines for single key presses. This also automatically places a mini HP bar underneath the target, which are the same colour as the target, so its easy to determine if you're on friend or foe (so you can use the same macro for xhealing friends). You can also make very easy macros with this to arm your specials at the same time, or with UOA you can have a macro that (for example) Dismounts you, tells your pet to kill the target, primes a special and attacks the target all on one key.
4. You can use the new system that was added which is basically the same as the EC's, it has TargetNextMobile and TargetNextFriendly and all that stuff. Personally I didn't like it when it was added so promptly turned it off and continued using the original system (as did most other people who found getting an HP bar for boxes they opened annoying).

What was it you said again 'you've used both extensively'? Really sounds it.

It has been almost three years since I last used the CC "extensively", so my memory's a bit fuzzy, but I never used the TargetNext macro as I found it awkward, but I've changed my playstyle quite a lot since those days, so perhaps I'd find it more useful now, and I also turned off the new targeting system back then. Having said that, the mobiles display still rocks the house, and targeting is easier in the enhanced client as a result, I can guarantee you that.

And you can do #3 and more with the enhanced client, and you aren't limited to 18 complex macros...

 

[Cetric]

As long as you have a target selected, and you can perform actions on the target, any spell you cast will automatically be applied to said target.

So say you target an orc (it has the targeting recticle spinning around its feet) and you cast Flamestrike - as long as its in range the spell will hit it. Should you need to cast another, simply do so and as long as its still a valid target you will hit it again. (The EC basicly has an auto last target)

The macros you make can have targets asigned to them... Like Self, Current Target, Cursor, etc. Same goes for hotbar slots.

I strongly suggest you play around with the targeting in a low-level PvM setting till you get the hang of it. Its actually pretty easy, and FAR superior to the CC/UOA.

I understand it sounds simple. But when you factor in the fact that you lose that target everytime it moves on screen, i am suddenly retargeting ALOT versus keeping my target.

I agree though, i need to work with it a little more than i have to see it in action, other than analyzing it by definition

I also don't believe the "auto cast on target thing" sounds like a good idea in pvp. im sure i would nuke plenty of guildmates after i crosshealed them, besides the fact that timing spells would get ALOT harder.

Just seems to be alot more trouble than it is worth in regards to pvp

 

[It Lives]

It has nothing to do with comfort. It has everything to do with how the client was designed.

Animations are jerky.
Graphics are ugly.
Performance is terrible.

That is all there is to it. Fixing a bug here and there isn't going to resolve these issues. If I had to guess, the entire client would need a rewrite to be fixed.

It also does not help at all that one of the most enticing features, customization, was implemented completely wrong. I should be able to install any number of modifications I want. But no, instead they decided to go with a one mod only system. Every other MMO that does this sort of thing lets you install multiple mods. How did they screw the Enhanced Client up so badly?

Yep this. Yep I am a Ludite, lol. *points at dermott* ...

 

[Tinsil]

Most who are used to the 2D client won't change to the Enhanced Client no matter what is done with it. It has nothing to do with how good the Enhanced Client is

I think this is wrong. The problem is the EC is not even that much different from 2d. It's just less clear graphics and different (unneeded) graphics, and a slightly better interface.

For being made so recent, the graphics on it are pretty crappy. I'd play it if it looked more like KR without the blur in the trees/grass.

 

[Lord GOD(GOD)]

It has been almost three years since I last used the CC "extensively", so my memory's a bit fuzzy, but I never used the TargetNext macro as I found it awkward, but I've changed my playstyle quite a lot since those days, so perhaps I'd find it more useful now, and I also turned off the new targeting system back then.

You should probably let people know that when you give your 'examples' of how both work. Or just not claim to know in the first place, eithers good.

targeting is easier in the enhanced client as a result, I can guarantee you that.

No it isn't. You just didn't know how to use 2d.

And you can do #3 and more with the enhanced client, and you aren't limited to 18 complex macros...

2d isn't limited or complicated, and there aren't 18 things that would need a macro in both the client and UOA.

 

[Llewen]

It has been almost three years since I last used the CC "extensively", so my memory's a bit fuzzy, but I never used the TargetNext macro as I found it awkward, but I've changed my playstyle quite a lot since those days, so perhaps I'd find it more useful now, and I also turned off the new targeting system back then.

You should probably let people know that when you give your 'examples' of how both work. Or just not claim to know in the first place, eithers good.

targeting is easier in the enhanced client as a result, I can guarantee you that.

No it isn't. You just didn't know how to use 2d.

And you can do #3 and more with the enhanced client, and you aren't limited to 18 complex macros...

2d isn't limited or complicated, and there aren't 18 things that would need a macro in both the client and UOA.

Kinda like 640KB ought to be enough for anyone? (And yes, I know Bill Gates didn't say that.)

Basically it's a case of, "My mind's made up, don't confuse me with the facts" when it comes to the enhanced client. But it's ok, if we ever face each other on the field, I'll be more than happy to see you and target you well before you can do the same to me. I'm old and slow, I'll take any advantage I can get...

 

[Lord GOD(GOD)]

Kinda like 640KB ought to be enough for anyone? (And yes, I know Bill Gates didn't say that.)

No idea what you're talking about.

Basically it's a case of, "My mind's made up, don't confuse me with the facts" when it comes to the enhanced client.

Yep that is exactly how you are.

But it's ok, if we ever face each other on the field, I'll be more than happy to see you and target you well before you can do the same to me. I'm old and slow, I'll take any advantage I can get...

You don't sound old. Even if the EC had instant automatic targeting it wouldn't make any difference. Why? Because people don't die in one hit and aren't prevented from defending themselves by not being able to target you first.

 

[Dermott of LS]

...

Yep I am a Ludite, lol. *points at dermott* ..

Since it's pointed at me, I'm gonna address it.

Someone looking at how the EC should be fixed, or needs to be fixed, or what it would take to fix it is NOT a Luddite by definition. A Luddite is someone who is single-mindedly against technological progress to the point they want to DESTROY any such advancement.

Basically the people who were saying such to the effect of "delete/trash/remove/end the KR/EC client" are the people I label as UO Luddites. It's not simply that they refuse to play KR or EC but that they feel that NOONE ELSE SHOULD EITHER becuase THEY do not like it.

That's the difference.

If you're not saying that I shouldn't be able to play EC instead of 2d, then you are not a Luddite.

If you ARE saying that I shouldn;t be able to play EC instead of 2d, then you ARE a Luddite.

 

[Lord GOD(GOD)]

I honestly don't care who plays which client, and can't see why anyone else would, and it'd be great if it was just left at that, but it usually isn't.

People always feel the need to lie about and otherwise put down the client they didn't understand to try and promote their own.

I think anyone who had genuinely used both equally would realise the end result in both is the same, not much incentive to relearn a client (whichever you start in) just to do the same things you already could.

 

[Dermott of LS]

...

I'm of conflicting minds about it. Prior to the mainstream use of Netbooks, I was all for simply ditching the 2d client and moving forward technologically. However with Netbooks, I can see a use for the 2d client remaining. However, it still saddens me that we never got to see what the Gamebryo client could REALLY do with UO untethered from 2d.

 

[chuckoatl]

Automaticly casting spells if your target is in range is stupid. Guess you guys never had to "hold" a weaken to interupt your opponents spell. CC for me all the way.

 

[Ls Jax Ls]

Basically it's a case of, "My mind's made up, don't confuse me with the facts" when it comes to the enhanced client. But it's ok, if we ever face each other on the field, I'll be more than happy to see you and target you well before you can do the same to me. I'm old and slow, I'll take any advantage I can get...

I can grab a player's bar using control shift in the 2d client in well under a second...I doubt the enhanced client would top that speed, and even if it did the few millisecond difference would have no real impact on the outcome. In the 7 years I've played UO, I have never heard someone say to me "Wow, the 2D client sucks I really wish they'd bring out a better one". If you want to play a client that's a weak imitation of new-age MMO's like WoW (we all know how bad those games are) then that's your business.

The truth is you refused to take the time to get better at the 2D client, and now that a new one is out that dumbs down the game mechanics to a speed you can keep up with, you automatically assume that everyone else will benefit as well. You would be mistaken.

On a side note: I started playing UO in the 3D client for over a year and then switched to 2D because I found that it was better. I guess that disproves your comfort theory as well.

 

[UOKaiser]

I don't know about all of you and am sure am in the minority but I loved the old 3d client over the 2d client. I was sad to see it go.

 

[Ls Jax Ls]

I liked the 3D graphics, but 2D was much more reliable from a PvP standpoint, which to me is all that matters.

 

[Sturdy]

Llewen wins.

 

[Dermott of LS]

...

I used the 3d client and defended it, I was sad that they reverted back to the stop-motion sprite style of animation vs the Polygon/texture used in 3d which gave MUCH SMOOTHER animations, but I was glad to move forward to KR.

I was sadder to see the DOWNGRADES in the EC from KR than I was going from 3d to KR.

However I love the fact that last patch brought in some of the old 3d client functionality (expandable containers and dropping items on health bars) and some old KR functionality (custom fonts).

Gave me a bit more hope for the EC... now if we can only get graphics at a higher resolution as well as many of the KR UI elements that were stripped out back in...

 

[Stupid Miner]

The thing is, there are a lot more art issues than just Garg stuff. There's a nice thread about certain fashion disasters, it's worth a look. rolleyes:


Wait a second..? I could swear EA/M had mentioned that 2D would eventually be abandoned! I have nothing against that client except that it's more prone to cheats, if you know what I mean..

I haven't been following UOHOC sessions but I'd definitely like to know if and when is there going to be another. I'd love to bring up poisoning and potions obviously.. Anyone knows?

Too bad the thread got derailed by mindless 2D vs SA arguments.

There's usually not a whole lot of time between UOHoC announcements and when they actually happen.

 

[Ls Jax Ls]

Funny how that always seems to happen when Llewen is involved...I wonder if she is a preacher by profession?

 

[Stupid Miner]

I couldn't disagree more. Movement in the enhanced client makes me nauseous in real life. I can't explain it, but it has nothing to do with any emotional attachment or old machine. (I don't have this problem playing World of Warcraft.) I've played UO for a long time, but I was still willing to give the new client a shot because it has a lot of nice features. Some of the graphics are really pretty too, like the plants, flowers and water features. However, being nauseous is a big downside, one I'm not willing to endure for a game.

I thought the same thing. honestly it is probably 2 things, either we have Vertigo (i doubt it) or we are just THAT used to the classic client.

Actually, seems a significant amount of people have this same problem, including me.

The forms are almost immaterial, and it's really hard for anything to catch my eye, it's like i'm looking in peripheral all the time.

Whereas 2D, despite whatever else, at least has solid forms.

 

[Sergul'zan_SP]

I haven't been following UOHOC sessions but I'd definitely like to know if and when is there going to be another. I'd love to bring up poisoning and potions obviously.. Anyone knows?

"Soon."

On the other topic, I think the enhanced client has come a long ways, but it's still not my preferred client. The movement seems like "gliding" to me whereas the classic client is walking. I also find myself always trying to find ways to make the enhanced client more like the classic one because I like the way the classic client didn't try to organize everything you had.

Now you figure I PvP'd in the classic client for 6 or 7 years...is it really worth changing to a new client when the current one meets all my needs?

Food for thought.

 

[Lord Chaos]

Most who are used to the 2D client won't change to the Enhanced Client no matter what is done with it. It has nothing to do with how good the Enhanced Client is, it is a comfort thing and an emotional thing. People don't like change, and they don't like relearning something that they feel they are good at.

And then there is the whole matter of third party cheats. As long as "The-Program-Which-Shall-Not-Be-Named" can be used with the Classic Client without any consequences, the people that use it will never change clients, and there are an awful lot of people using "The-Program-Which-Shall-Not-Be-Named".

Considering that there's now "Another-Program-Which-Shall-Not-Be-Named" for the EC, that works much like "The-Program-Which-Shall-Not-Be-Named", then the second point you have is fairly pointless. The worst thing is that the devs will likely concentrate on just the CC in their effort, I would theorize that its likely that their main objective isn't to stop cheating, but to things. 1. To cut down on the "report whines" of players who report others constantly and waste GM time. 2. To drive people to use the EC to cheat in that and discontinue the CC. Both means more money/resources for them.

As for your first point, I agree. For me the CC is the game I fell in love with, if I wanted another game that looks and acts differently, then I'd play other games, my computer is a Dual loop WC Nikkel 980X, 12 Gb DDR3, WC Nikkel 2x480GTX SLI and the worlds fastest SSD, so I can easily do any game out there, but UO like UO as it is and compared to the games I can run, the EC looks like and acts like an abomination. If there's anything I'd like back its the classical chest opening, I miss that.

 

[Arcus]

Ill just put this here http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3zSMheo0b-w