Doesn't really matter, you said anyone who lies to EA (which includes you), lies about everything and is therefor cheating in all ways. Doesn't matter what you say here, you have by your own words admitted to being a liar.
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3rd party apps
- Thread starter longshanks
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Old Man of UO
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If you even spent half the time making useful post rather than taking enjoyment at attacking other posters, you might actually make sense. You just like twisting other people words. You are a very pathetic person doing that. Pathetic.
Now, go troll your own posts before they get locked.
T
Tay M'real
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Yeah - i have to agree with Mapper on this. They don't want to unfairly target people and apps so they have to look at the data streams, collect that information and then program the servers to be able to capture what they deem as inappropriate.
This will take some time - especially if you want it done right. People like to avoid false positives.
L
longshanks
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I don't know who you associate with but given that attitude maybe you should find a new crowd.
Olcher is on point. macroing out a necro mage hardly impacts the game play of others. finding a competitive vendor is also a convenience that does not impact game play. these types of things should be allowed at best and overlooked at least.
What this really comes down to is how do you severly crimp the activities of some, which in turn entices the player that wont play fel side to goto fel if he feels he is being given a legitimate shot at competing.
Maybe those people don't go regardless because even without the 3rd party stuff they can't compete, but at least they are given a fair playing field.
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Old Man of UO
Guest
I mostly agree with your post, except this point. Macroing or scripting skills do affect and impact anyone who does not do this. A person who doesn't macro skill can take weeks or even months to finish a character, versus a few days for 23-1/2 hours a day unattended macroing. It's very discouraging to come up against a new player with fully developed characters when you've been working at it the legal way. I do enjoy the character development part of the game, and don't think the shortcuts are fair, nor should be ignored.
This is what you said:
You yourself admitted to cheating and having lied to EA. So where's the twisting again?
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You can already get rid of the twigs and tombstones in Fel without an illegal cheat. Go to My Documents > EA Games > Ultima Online Legacy > User Data > {Account Name} > {Shard Name} > {Character Name} and open uo.cfg in notepad look for the line that says
Code:
Desolation = on
Code:
Desolation = offHave to do it with each toon but it works, and it's not illegal.
He said he uses the Site that a person can search.
Last time I checked, there was no where in any of the ToS that I could read that stated I was not able to go to websites of people who used illegal scripts to gain their information, or I would be considered a cheater. There IS a section that says a person, themselves, will not use unapproved third party apps. That part is definitely in the ToS.
The ToS I signed stated that I, myself, was not going to use them. And I do not use them myself, on my machine, ever. I would gladly also give up the websites that use them, myself, as well.
There is no verbiage I am able to find in all of that verbiage of the ToS that states I cannot utilize a website, if the party that owns the website uses an illegal script in UO or any other game to obtain the information.
Your straw man arguments and twisting of words are as transparent as they can get.
If you can find that bit of info in the ToS that states I agreed never to visit a website of people that use illegal scripts in UO, please post it, and I will recant. I will immediately delete their web addresses, and do all my searches on foot.
Otherwise, just do us all a really big favor, and STFU, OK?
That would be awesome!!
I'm really hoping that once EA has solid numbers on percentage (%) of the playerbase that cheats, they publish the data in smackdown fashion. Either:
* Only 2% of the playerbase was detected cheating, so stfu people who claim everyone cheats, we're banning all the cheaters.
* 97% of the playerbase was detected cheating, so stfu people who claim hardly anyone cheats, we can't ban all of the cheaters because that would amount to shutting down the game.
I have just seen too many idiots and too much pointless rhetoric on both sides of the battle on these boards lately. I want to see one of the sides get wrecked, and I don't care which one it is.
* Only 2% of the playerbase was detected cheating, so stfu people who claim everyone cheats, we're banning all the cheaters.
* 97% of the playerbase was detected cheating, so stfu people who claim hardly anyone cheats, we can't ban all of the cheaters because that would amount to shutting down the game.
I have just seen too many idiots and too much pointless rhetoric on both sides of the battle on these boards lately. I want to see one of the sides get wrecked, and I don't care which one it is.
There are several ones it violates, amongst those are rule 13:
This is by the way enforced by the ruling the devs made about champion spawn monitor sites, again stating that such sites were illegal to use.
Using a website that illegally gathers information from the Ultima Online service, is not permitted within the game world.
This is by the way enforced by the ruling the devs made about champion spawn monitor sites, again stating that such sites were illegal to use.
He said he uses the Site that a person can search.
Last time I checked, there was no where in any of the ToS that I could read that stated I was not able to go to websites of people who used illegal scripts to gain their information, or I would be considered a cheater. There IS a section that says a person, themselves, will not use unapproved third party apps. That part is definitely in the ToS.
The ToS I signed stated that I, myself, was not going to use them. And I do not use them myself, on my machine, ever. I would gladly also give up the websites that use them, myself, as well.
There is no verbiage I am able to find in all of that verbiage of the ToS that states I cannot utilize a website, if the party that owns the website uses an illegal script in UO or any other game to obtain the information.
Your straw man arguments and twisting of words are as transparent as they can get.
If you can find that bit of info in the ToS that states I agreed never to visit a website of people that use illegal scripts in UO, please post it, and I will recant. I will immediately delete their web addresses, and do all my searches on foot.
Otherwise, just do us all a really big favor, and STFU, OK?
That would be awesome!!
FYI: scripting is not related to speedhacking. they are 2 totally different things.
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Old Man of UO
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But they do have one thing in common... both are unapproved 3rd party applications and therefore illegal to use. Right?
If those search websites don't go down, I'm going to open my own.
If EA is going to ban for using illegal 3rd party apps, they better do it accross the board and not leave anyone unpunished. I also hope they won't depend on players reporting other players. A lot of this **** is done with stealthers in trammel.
Furthermore, most of these accounts used to farm, collect bods and search vendors come from the free 15 day trial service.
If EA is going to ban for using illegal 3rd party apps, they better do it accross the board and not leave anyone unpunished. I also hope they won't depend on players reporting other players. A lot of this **** is done with stealthers in trammel.
Furthermore, most of these accounts used to farm, collect bods and search vendors come from the free 15 day trial service.
"You" in this case indicates the Owner of the Account in UO. The Owner of the Account that may or may not be using an Illegal Program in the UO World. The web site referred to is not an Ultima Online Web site. It belongs to someone OTHER than UO/EA/Mythic.
Produce any statement by the Devs that visiting any web site, in and of itself, as being "Illegal" within the context of my account, and what I am able to do Legally OUTSIDE of actually being in the UO world. Please.
Again, who in their right mind would be even slightly amazed that you would twist the verbiage from the ToS that is clearly speaking TO the Owner of the account that is signing up...that you would twist it to fit your own perceptions to indicate that someone who goes to a web site of a person that uses an illegal program in UO is somehow considered "cheating" on the part of the person visiting the web site.
Naturally, you have to twist it, don't you?
Otherwise...you would be made to look incorrect.
Can't have that now, can we, LC?
Oh Heavens no we can't!!
LOL man...so...to be sure...you are unable to produce verbiage from the ToS to support your accusations that the person that visits a web site that uses illegal programs is, themselves, a cheater. So...all you have is your own little twisted perception of what the ToS actually says to support your straw man argument. I am certain I speak for every rational poster on these forums when I say: "STFU". Well...pretty sure.
There is a great line from a great songwriter:
"You can twist perceptions...Reality won't budge."
I guess I will just have to end every single post to you with a symbol that completely...well...almost completely...captures the thought I have whenever I see one of your carefully twisted half truths:
Hah! I didn't realize you could do this with the classic client as well. There you go.
I knew you could turn desolation off, I just didn't realize it also got rid of tombstones.
Exactly and YOU accessing an illegal website that illegally access the UO services, makes YOU break the rules. YOU are accessing UO information in the gameworld through an illegal channel.
Just like you can't claim that just because its the script program thats accessing the UO service and not you, then they can't punish you.
Also AGAIN, which part do you have trouble understanding? The devs clearly stated once that using champion spawn monitor sites were against the rules, as this is exactly the same, then the ruling stands for this as well.
But its funny to see you squirm when you yourself is caught, you're no different, dispite your claim of better morals.
I've bolded the key word for emphasis. "The" is the qualifier for both parts of the compound subject in that sentence; I.e. both "the Ultima Online service" and "the Ultima Online web site" - "the[...]web site" referring, of course, to www.uoherald.com.
Last I checked, no one was using an illegally scripted vendor search on the UOHerald, so trying to use that part of the sentence as the basis for your argument was a poor strategy.
L
longshanks
Guest
not to derail the thread with this as it's great advice but does this mean ur char no longer gets caught on tombstones? or does he hit something invisible.Hah! I didn't realize you could do this with the classic client as well. There you go.
I knew you could turn desolation off, I just didn't realize it also got rid of tombstones.
second back to the main point of discussion. I'm seeing a lot of the line of thinking that if the 3rd party apps are taken away, said users of such apps will quit. How can u be sure this is so?
Actually since it was a Dev who said it a few years back. Yeah I'd consider it a fact.
PS we're not talking about the casual scripters, we're talking about major gold/item farming operations.
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Old Man of UO
Guest
You might be right, but a link would help. It's easy to claim that a "Developer said," without a link to back it. I didn't find anything in a quick search.
you are correct that they are both unapproved for use with UO, but it is not illegal to download and run them on your computer.
I'm not sure derailing will do this thread much damage...
No you don't hit anything invisible, you run straight through the tombstones as if they weren't there, which they aren't to you.
D
DHMagicMan_1
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They should just ban anyone who uses scripting programs, speed hacks or other non-approved 3rd party applications.
It's fine to say it's okay to script for xxx but not for yyy but it's all still scripting and all should be banned.
Yes, the scripts that search vendors will also break. So be it.
It's fine to say it's okay to script for xxx but not for yyy but it's all still scripting and all should be banned.
Yes, the scripts that search vendors will also break. So be it.
Its referring to the Ultima Online Service, aka the game, its data, etc.
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Right because there are two different maps for Trammel and Felucca. What it looks like is when they did the facet split and added desolation to Felucca, they made the new map, with the tombstones and twigs, and made that toggle in the cfg file to act like a pointer. Since locations added by past events, EM's, houses, etc. aren't really part of the map and are just overlay on it then everything that was in Felucca stayed in Felucca.
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Old Man of UO
Guest
I stand corrected... it's not a legal issue. However, it is against the TOS for Ultima Online, which gives EA/Mythic the right to sanction your account in any fashion they deem necessary. There is no distinction among any of the unapproved 3rd party applications, and they all fall in this category.
I'd like to focus the discussion here a bit.
Are those vendor indexing sites a bad thing, or are they providing a valuable service? We know they rely on technically illegal scripts to gather their information, but do they do the same kind of damage that unattended script mining does? What about unattended skill training, is this a bad thing?
I know in the early days of UO unattended skill training was game breaking in my opinion. The difference between characters that macroed unattended, and characters that were trained "legitimately" was night and day. Is it still the issue that it was back then?
What about scripts in pvp, are they a bad thing? Do they provide an unfair in game advantage? Is there a difference between someone running a health script in pvp, and the scripts that are used to index vendors?
I realize most of these questions have been discussed ad nauseum, but LC is trying very hard to paint those vendor indexing sites with the same brush as those who use scripts to run quests, etc. Is he right? It's a legitmate question.
Are those vendor indexing sites a bad thing, or are they providing a valuable service? We know they rely on technically illegal scripts to gather their information, but do they do the same kind of damage that unattended script mining does? What about unattended skill training, is this a bad thing?
I know in the early days of UO unattended skill training was game breaking in my opinion. The difference between characters that macroed unattended, and characters that were trained "legitimately" was night and day. Is it still the issue that it was back then?
What about scripts in pvp, are they a bad thing? Do they provide an unfair in game advantage? Is there a difference between someone running a health script in pvp, and the scripts that are used to index vendors?
I realize most of these questions have been discussed ad nauseum, but LC is trying very hard to paint those vendor indexing sites with the same brush as those who use scripts to run quests, etc. Is he right? It's a legitmate question.
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To be quite honest back in the day I trained characters faster than people do now with scripts. Swords, Tactics, Parry, took me usually around 4-5 hours total for all three, Anatomy and Healing to GM was a matter of a couple days, the only exception would probably be Resisting Spells, that's much faster now mainly due to the Spellbinders in New Haven.
Mages took a bit longer by with 8x8 on a boat no more than a weekend of solid play time.
stump hack and field hack are art edits. you can also remove/change sounds. it has nothing to do with scripting.
"speed walk" - not sure what you mean by this, but again, nothing to do with scripting.
what are we lying about?
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DHMagicMan_1
Guest
The problem is the training scripts and vendor search scripts are all using the same "core" as more harmful scripts like ones that help with PvP, harvest resources unattended etc. There's no end to what people figure out how to script using this platform and it needs to be stopped.
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Old Man of UO
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What is your point? None of these are all not allowed by the TOS. Whether hack or scripts, they are wrong.
You are taking this out of context, from a post that has nothing to do with you. This is obviously another Troll attempt by you. Surely you can do better than that.
simpler, better solution: make it an approved program and let everyone in the community use it.
why?
And then the game will be all about who can write the best scripts! Wonderful! Then all the peeveepee'rs can trash talk about their 733t scripting skillz! And all you need to do is fire up your script, go to bed, and wake up in the morning with bags full of ore, or gems, or boards! Barbed runic kits for everyone, as many as you want!
Of course, for some the game is already like that, now isn't it?
Ah the truth is finally revealed...scripting is A-O-K as long as it benefits you in some way. Since resource gathering/gold farming scripts do not benefit you, those are totally out of the question and need to be dealt with right away! Who is to say that a mining script is not performing a valuable service to the player using it? Possibly that player enjoys doing bods or crafting, but doesn't have the time to go tile-by-tile double clicking his pickaxe for hours on end. I am sick and tired of reading the wishy-washy posts of you supposed "anti-cheaters". Old Man of UO has stated countless times the issue is "black and white" but yet he is still using a website which directly utilizes scripts.
You guys claim that your not breaking TOS by using these websites because you yourself are not directly responsible for the scripting. Let me pose this question: If person A builds a nuclear warhead for country A and they use it on country B and kill persons B*100,000 would you say person A is just as guilty as country A? This being said, you either accept that all scripts no matter how they effect the game should be banned, or they shouldn't. There is no in-between.
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Old Man of UO
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I already told you why it was wrong... I think you need to put your glasses on because you seem to be having problems comprehending. It's against the UO Terms of Service.
Tell me why you think it isn't wrong, and how it doesn't violate the TOS. So far, your arguments are very, very weak.
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Old Man of UO
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YEAH! FINALLY! We are in agreement! Get rid of them all! Ban all the scripts!
kelmo
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Dread Lord
EA/Mythic dissapproves of third party apps.
So do we here at Stratics.
O. Activities that are against any games' Terms of Service or the User Agreement are prohibited from being promoted or advertised on our network. This includes, but is not limited to, third party programs, game item sales for real world goods, power leveling services, and/or links to such items.
So do we here at Stratics.
O. Activities that are against any games' Terms of Service or the User Agreement are prohibited from being promoted or advertised on our network. This includes, but is not limited to, third party programs, game item sales for real world goods, power leveling services, and/or links to such items.
yes, it is. my point is that it should be like that for everyone.
I've made this point before in more detail in another thread: all the fun things about this game are not script-able
remember the poll that morgane posted assuming that the results would favor her position?
there were 4 badly worded poll options but it was somewhat useful
out of 180 votes:
47% opposed scripting
53% did not oppose scripting
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Old Man of UO
Guest
If you have a point, you should probably make it sooner or later.
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Old Man of UO
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In no way can that be considered statistically valid. First, the data set is corrupted, with the same posters voting multiple times from different accounts. Second, the sample size is not statistically valid for the population at large, and even it it were, the spread would be too small to cover the margin of error. OH, and as you pointed out, the polls were badly worded. There is no valid conclusion to be drawn from these polls.
are you saying we can't have a philosophical debate about the morality of using such programs regardless of what the ToS says about them?
certainly we can advocate for rule changes. and that's impossible without thorough discussion.
if you want to say we can't try to get the rules changed, that's one thing. but to shut down a discussion on a technicality is really Dark Age-ish.
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