Goza's and Bans

[Shelleybean]

Too late. One of the most beautiful creations on any shard is destined to be torn down when the owner's suspension is served.


All that will be left is the memory and the pictures on Homes and Castles board. I think this is one of the saddest days in UO.

I hope you don't mean Endrik's home!!!!!

 

[Crystal Canyon]

It's our job that we move forward gracefully with any changes we make ...

- c

With all due respect sir, banning people without a warning that you have changed your mind on the rules of the game, is not moving on "gracefully".

It is very understandable what the problem is with some of these houses and the use of the gozas and new rules certainly did need to be implemented, but enforcing the "new" rules this way is only going to cause more discontent with the game itself.

I don't understand the concept here of "ban everyone that is using gozas in a way we disagree with" THEN we will talk about it.

Surely there is a better way!

 

[Petra Fyde]

That is for the owner to do, if he can bear to. Sorry.

 

[Crystal Canyon]

Too late. One of the most beautiful creations on any shard is destined to be torn down when the owner's suspension is served.


All that will be left is the memory and the pictures on Homes and Castles board. I think this is one of the saddest days in UO.

That is truley sad. One of the best parts of the entire game is being able to design and create your own home, something most of the MMOs do not have.

 

[Lady Aalia]

Well since its all still open to discussion , i dont understand why suspensions and orders to remove them asap are given out allready?

People have worked with Gozas since SA
thats what? allmost 5 years? never been an issue.

What i would like to see is the Marks removed and the suspensions stopped till you guys @ EA figured out what is legal and what not...

I am not sure if you ever looked at what beautifull things have came out of the Gozas... spiral staircases, floating globes, kitchen counters.... its unbelivable, and i have to admit, the only reason why i am not beeing affected by this is, because i have no talent with this at all....

P.S i am working on a picture of a town that is beeing affected by this, but it will take me a couple, its 9 houses big

 

[Cal_Mythic]

Too late. One of the most beautiful creations on any shard is destined to be torn down when the owner's suspension is served.


All that will be left is the memory and the pictures on Homes and Castles board. I think this is one of the saddest days in UO.

On it.

 

[Olahorand]

Hi,
about the impact to creativity and design has been sait a lot already. I have also been angry sometimes, that circle of transparence was blocked by various ingame objects like furniture, christmas trees, rubble, goza mats ..., but this was never the player who placed them on their virtual home who was guilty, but the developers missed that in the design of these items.

Also, this is not a BAN! This is a suspension. Ban is so ... just ... ew!! of a word. It's a warning to pull over ..

A warning, that somebody else changed its mind? Not the affected players are the people, who deserve such warning.
No - it is a penalty for something, the victims could not prevent. Its a temporary ban, its taking away from the players paid time and its causing also mental issues.
And it is a so called mark on the account. Since marks are not transparent to the account owner and are not removed like i. e. penalty points for too fast driving here in Germany after some set time, they are permanent and exclusively on cost of players, who got them.

*Salute*
Olahorand

 

[Liquid_Ape]

Ack! No you are right ... I knew what I meant to say .. basically I'm saying that the introduction of the mats came after housing was introduced in UO, and devs did not account for the impact of the change ...

Thanks for helping me clear that up ...

It's our job that we move forward gracefully with any changes we make ...

- c

Goza mats could be used on rooftops of towers with the same results. How exactly does custom housing change the equation?

 

[Morgana LeFay (PoV)]

So we have people fighting Golems in Luna...unattended. Scripters strip mining the landscape. Dupers screwing up the economy. Speedhackers cheating their ____s off in PvP. Broken animations in 2D. Broken...everything...in the EC. And virtues that haven't been finished up in years!!!

And goza mats are worth the subscriptions this *fiasco* is going to cost you guys?

Seriously...unbelievable.

 

[Cal_Mythic]

Hi,
about the impact to creativity and design has been sait a lot already. I have also been angry sometimes, that circle of transparence was blocked by various ingame objects like furniture, christmas trees, rubble, goza mats ..., but this was never the player who placed them on their virtual home who was guilty, but the developers missed that in the design of these items.



A warning, that somebody else changed its mind? Not the affected players are the people, who deserve such warning.
No - it is a penalty for something, the victims could not prevent. Its a temporary ban, its taking away from the players paid time and its causing also mental issues.
And it is a so called mark on the account. Since marks are not transparent to the account owner and are not removed like i. e. penalty points for too fast driving here in Germany after some set time, they are permanent and exclusively on cost of players, who got them.

*Salute*
Olahorand

Understood, and actually diving more into this topic (which is a core and important aspect of Ultima Online) I find out more every 30 minutes (we've been discussing this for several weeks now). Leaving you all in limbo is not a good thing. This I what's most important.

BTW .. thanks to everyone who has sent PMs with examples and their constructve feedback. I do appreciate it.

- c

 

[RaDian FlGith]

As I understand it gozamats were placed in UO way before customized housing was a spark in Raph Koster's eye. So, as design pressed forward the teams did not account for that.

(A) Raph Koster had nothing to do with customized housing (he was long gone, and off to SWG by the time anyone figured out how to do it), and (B) goza mats were introduced in Samurai Empire... which would be well after customized housing was implemented.

Not that this holds any bearing on the current decision making process, but just wanted to give you the correct facts.

 

[Cear Dallben Dragon]

So, I love cows right....

 

[hen]

I love how they just out of the blue change their minds about stuff without telling anybody and then ban/suspend a bunch of people - it wouldn't be UO without it - hehe (keep up the good work - I especially liked how there was no hint whatsoever that it was coming - that's just world class - congrats)

I have to admit that although I have nothing but sympathy for the poor players affected by this; I have lol'd hard at this thread. Typical keystone cops type management of our game.

 

[Cal_Mythic]

Cal,
I have ordered my guild to eliminate all 8 virtue cities of their live stock until this madness ends and the accounts are live.

This is not a drill.

oh yes, there will be blood.

Tazar of Atlantic spent years making his player town, and after an EM tour and party, its gone. and hes "suspended"

Next is Britian.

Check your PM

 

[Restroom Cowboy]

How about being less cryptic, and actually giving us some well deserved answers Cal? You did after all say you would tell us on Thursday. Guess what day it is? Stop beating around the bush and come out with the reasoning behind this already!

 

[Ransom_of_BiC]

Poor Cal. After the hide flaying he's received here today, I cannot imagine he will ever want to return.

 

[Tina Small]

Does anyone have directions to Tazar's town on Atlantic? I never got around to actually visiting it, only saw it in screen shots. Would like to make a run by it on the off chance he hasn't completely finished dismantling it and see it myself in person.

 

[Tina Small]

Found a thread and directions: http://vboards.stratics.com/showthread.php?t=118589.

 

[Taylor]

Tazar's Falling Waters Fortress is the most beautiful player-created town in UO's history, in my view. Tazar's ban - and the damage to his town - is irrefutably unjust, because he has been disciplined for a rule that was not promulgated. Just laws must be promulgated.

I typically try to remain positive regarding decisions of our development team, but this is an absolute travesty. In my decade of playing, I have never been more upset. Long live the Fortress.

http://vboards.stratics.com/showthread.php?t=178989&highlight=falling+waters

http://vboards.stratics.com/showthread.php?t=118589&highlight=falling+waters+fortress

 

[Morgana LeFay (PoV)]

Tazar's ban - and the damage to his town - is irrefutably unjust, because he has been disciplined for a rule that was not promulgated.

It really does suck when someone get's in trouble for something that lot's of other people do, and no one ever said was against the rules.

What a "waste of resources" this Goza mat thing is, eh Tazar?

 

[Shelleybean]

Tazar's Falling Waters Fortress is the most beautiful player-created town in UO's history, in my view. Tazar's ban - and the damage to his town - is irrefutably unjust, because he has been disciplined for a rule that was not promulgated. Just laws must be promulgated.

I typically try to remain positive regarding decisions of our development team, but this is an absolute travesty. In my decade of playing, I have never been more upset. Long live the Fortress.

http://vboards.stratics.com/showthread.php?t=178989&highlight=falling+waters

http://vboards.stratics.com/showthread.php?t=118589&highlight=falling+waters+fortress

I feel just terrible for Tazar. I have visited his town before and it was one of the most impressive and creative designs ever. I feel just terrible and angry for him.

 

[Taylor]

In my view, this was the most egregious display of injustice throughout my decade-long subscription. Even if reparations are made, the very act of subjecting subscribers in good standing to a rash of 24-hours retroactive bans for a rule that has never been promulgated seriously weakens my trust for <del>our development team</del> whoever the hell is responsible. Unlike many UOers, I have always viewed our developers as being on our side - working for our good. Yet, this particular instance has greatly degraded my former idealism, regardless of how this problem is addressed. Even if all bans are lifted and Mesanna, herself, helps Tazar rebuild Falling Waters Fortress, this fact remains: it happened.

Tazar, as soon as you hear from Cal, please let us know. We are all rooting for you.

 

[Tina Small]

I'm at Tazar's town now, walking around. I still see beautiful buildings and gardens. I'm not sure what all Tazar may have already taken down since this is my first actual visit, but there's still a lot here. Hopefully the news that everything was dismantled was premature and Cal and company will have a chance to figure out a satisfactory solution to this situation. I'll be keeping my fingers crossed!

 

[Morgana LeFay (PoV)]

Here's a question:

How are the "offending" players supposed to log in and change their house designs if they are "suspended"??

 

[Taylor]

I'm at Tazar's town now, walking around. I still see beautiful buildings and gardens. I'm not sure what all Tazar may have already taken down since this is my first actual visit, but there's still a lot here. Hopefully the news that everything was dismantled was premature and Cal and company will have a chance to figure out a satisfactory solution to this situation. I'll be keeping my fingers crossed!

The gardens on the roofs of his buildings appear to be missing, as do his other roof-related decorations.

 

[Flutter]

I'm saying that the introduction of the mats came after housing was introduced in UO, and devs did not account for the impact of the change ...

Umm... what? Of course Goza mats were created after housing. They were created FOR houses... you can't place them on a boat.

Maybe you don't realize, the playerbase and the dev team seem to be in different "Cliques" now, (when we all used to be one disfunctional but communicative family) but a "ban" and a "suspension" are the same thing in our minds. You get your account marked and you can't play it (for however long).
You can't go arbitrarily changing the rules after 6 years. It's like telling people they are no longer allowed to fish from the docks but have to be actually out on a boat. They've been doing it since it's been introduced. Now all of a sudden you all take issue to it?

If something people have been doing for years is causing lag how about we fix the server and not the guy with clever decorating ideas.

Used to be sweeping changes were brought to us before hand and discussed, now they are just dropped on us with a "Here ya go this is what we decided to do without any input at all from you guys."

 

[DevilsOwn]

Here's a question:

How are the "offending" players supposed to log in and change their house designs if they are "suspended"??

Morgana, one of the suspended players posted the note he received from UO


<snip>
Violation: Illegal House Design
Shard: Legends
Character:
Note: When next you log into your account, you must re-design your house and remove any extra levels you have placed. Failure to do so may result in long term suspension or possible termination of your account.
<snip>

as you can see, instructions to dismantle added floors on next login

 

[Morgana LeFay (PoV)]

Morgana, one of the suspended players posted the note he received from UO


<snip>
Violation: Illegal House Design
Shard: Legends
Character:
Note: When next you log into your account, you must re-design your house and remove any extra levels you have placed. Failure to do so may result in long term suspension or possible termination of your account.
<snip>

as you can see, instructions to dismantle added floors on next login

Ah, I see. I missed this.

So the "violators" were warned before, or after, short term suspension?

 

[Flutter]

Ah, I see. I missed this.

So the "violators" were warned before, or after, short term suspension?

The short term suspension is their warning.

 

[Lady Aalia]

They do care

Mesanna has been in and out of the Town and I have talked to her. She is a real sweet Lady.

SO i am hoping they can all find a way to settle this.
I am allmost done with my picture so i will post it then.

For the Future stuff like this can be easily avoided, by doing things in the right order

 

[Crystal Canyon]

My question is this; I have a house in our City that I use only for decorating for holidays and storing deco items, should I take it down and drop the account? Its not going to be much good if Im afraid to design anything that is not just "drop and lock down".

 

[Cal_Mythic]

agreed. my company has a policy requiring change notices at least 48 hours in advance of something affecting a large population (software changes, etc). that doesn't get done, the changes do NOT go into effect.

real bad performance EA ... no warning then a hammer to boot? really bad.

Actually, right now CS will not be actioning anyone for house design.
I walked back and spoke to them directly, and they've been notified that players should not be actioned.

In regard to sweeping change: there IS NO sweeping change.
In regard to gozamats and decoration and house design they are a vibrant and essential part of UO. I can't see penalizing people for using them.

The Dev Team does not enforce CS policy. We create content. In this situation we are doing our best to recover from some incidents that involved a handful of players. Those players have been contacted directly, and we are awaiting responses from them.

We are not on anyone's side but UO's. As someone who personally appreciates all the great things I've seen in the game I will go to whatever lengths it takes to maintain user generated content like no other found in any community or MMO.

Presently, no one should be getting actioned on house design that does not impact gameplay for other players. If you find out otherwise please let me know ... I'm getting a bat at KMart after this post. Also, as players if you see someone erecting 17 story towers in Luna ... please smack them!

Apologies to using Raph's name in vain. I got my syntax and chronology messed in my head ... it sounded better there.

 

[Liquid_Ape]

Actually, right now CS will not be actioning anyone for house design.
I walked back and spoke to them directly, and they've been notified that players should not be actioned.

In regard to sweeping change: there IS NO sweeping change.
In regard to gozamats and decoration and house design they are a vibrant and essential part of UO. I can't see penalizing people for using them.

The Dev Team does not enforce CS policy. We create content. In this situation we are doing our best to recover from some incidents that involved a handful of players. Those players have been contacted directly, and we are awaiting responses from them.

We are not on anyone's side but UO's. As someone who personally appreciates all the great things I've seen in the game I will go to whatever lengths it takes to maintain user generated content like no other found in any community or MMO.

Presently, no one should be getting actioned on house design that does not impact gameplay for other players. If you find out otherwise please let me know ... I'm getting a bat at KMart after this post. Also, as players if you see someone erecting 17 story towers in Luna ... please smack them!

Apologies to using Raph's name in vain. I got my syntax and chronology messed in my head ... it sounded better there.

Thanks for championing UO to the benefit of us players who enjoy decorating and designing homes.

 

[Morgana LeFay (PoV)]

Actually, right now CS will not be actioning anyone for house design.
I walked back and spoke to them directly, and they've been notified that players should not be actioned.

In regard to sweeping change: there IS NO sweeping change.
In regard to gozamats and decoration and house design they are a vibrant and essential part of UO. I can't see penalizing people for using them.

The Dev Team does not enforce CS policy. We create content. In this situation we are doing our best to recover from some incidents that involved a handful of players. Those players have been contacted directly, and we are awaiting responses from them.

We are not on anyone's side but UO's. As someone who personally appreciates all the great things I've seen in the game I will go to whatever lengths it takes to maintain user generated content like no other found in any community or MMO.

Presently, no one should be getting actioned on house design that does not impact gameplay for other players. If you find out otherwise please let me know ... I'm getting a bat at KMart after this post. Also, as players if you see someone erecting 17 story towers in Luna ... please smack them!

Apologies to using Raph's name in vain. I got my syntax and chronology messed in my head ... it sounded better there.

Be careful how your phrase things like "CS will not be actioning anyone for house design." This could be taken as green light to trap monsters in your house and provo the night away!

Also, KMart has inferior bats. Go to Target.

 

[Morgana LeFay (PoV)]

Apologies to using Raph's name in vain. I got my syntax and chronology messed in my head ... it sounded better there.

Drinking on the job is frowned upon btw.

 

[Lord Gareth]

Actually, right now CS will not be actioning anyone for house design.
I walked back and spoke to them directly

The most important question on my mind is this: When you walked back there, were they sitting on wooden stools around a small wooden table? Perhaps with cookies and milk?

On a serious note thank you for addressing this so quickly.

 

[Lady Aalia]

Actually, right now CS will not be actioning anyone for house design.
I walked back and spoke to them directly, and they've been notified that players should not be actioned.

Presently, no one should be getting actioned on house design that does not impact gameplay for other players. If you find out otherwise please let me know ... I'm getting a bat at KMart after this post. Also, as players if you see someone erecting 17 story towers in Luna ... please smack them!

Apologies to using Raph's name in vain. I got my syntax and chronology messed in my head ... it sounded better there.

THANK YOU,

and sorry to be such a pain

Oh and here this one is for Tazar, sorry hun tried my best has a little mistake though

For those who have not seen it: this is Tazars Town, its located on the Atlantic Shard

 

[Beer_Cayse]

Don't get me wrong, Cal ... the fact you took the time to advise CS to not do anything is great. I (and I hope lots of others here) realize Devs don't set policy, but they can darn well get our feedback (good or bad) "upstairs". You have stated you've done it. Good enuff for this guy.

Thanks for taking the time to talk with CS and respond to this post.

 

[Beer_Cayse]

holy moly! Tazar, please don't destroy it as has been written in here somewhere. That's simply awe inspiring!

 

[Lady Aalia]

allrighty, bedtime for me... 1 am here allready.

Thanks all for the support

 

[BeefSupreme]

I just logged into Atl, to see this design.

OMFG that is great. Never knew about it before. Dunno why.

It's all well and good that things are being taken care of but my question is,
How all of a sudden did GMs go on a rampage suspending people if this was
something to be 'discussed'?

Someone HAD to have told them to do this. Recently.

 

[Lady Tiger]

if EA starts banning for decorating ....i'm out the door. Decorating and being able to customizing my house is the only reason i'm still playing UO.

 

[Kellgory]

There is a rune to Fallen Waters Fortress in Goodman's Rune Library (Atlantic), if you want to see it for yourself. To get to the library, go through the Makato-Jima moongate and take the first path out of the North side of the city. Goodman's is the first house on the right and you should be able to see the "GRL" on the roof. The rune is in the purple rune book that's locked on the stairs in front center of the house. Name of rune book is "Atlantic Rune Alliance Rune Libraries".

 

[Tina Small]

I just logged into Atl, to see this design.

OMFG that is great. Never knew about it before. Dunno why.

It's all well and good that things are being taken care of but my question is,
How all of a sudden did GMs go on a rampage suspending people if this was
something to be 'discussed'?

Someone HAD to have told them to do this. Recently.

Or maybe certain players recently began a campaign to page on others regarding this issue. In many cases, the gazas seem to be used in castles and keeps or in high-visibility locations. Someone interested in the locations and/or hoping for some future IDOC activity might be behind it. Or, as in Tazar's case, maybe someone was annoyed at him. He is a Stratics moderator and as such probably has irritated more players than most of us non-mods have.

I doubt we the players will ever know for sure what kicked off this string of events.

 

[Evlar]

I just logged into Atl, to see this design.

OMFG that is great. Never knew about it before. Dunno why.

It's all well and good that things are being taken care of but my question is,
How all of a sudden did GMs go on a rampage suspending people if this was
something to be 'discussed'?

Someone HAD to have told them to do this. Recently.

I have a conspiracy theory...

The rampaging GM's were former Sims Online GM's, jealous of what people have been able to design in UO

 

[Uriah Heep]

He is a Stratics moderator and as such probably has irritated more players than most of us non-mods have.

Mods irritate players?!?!?!?
*goes off to ponder this*

 

[Beer_Cayse]

Cal just stated even he is wanting the creativity to stay. To me that means we do have support in the EA/M house ... it's a matter of making sure poo doesn't fly before the fan is ready ... or something like that.

Right now the incidents we've seen may or may not be a knee-jerk on this. They may (as has been pointed out) a page by someone who truly got hurt by the players design and the GM went a tad too far. That should have gotten cleared up based on Cals remarks. <shrug>

 

[Tazar]

Wow! It's amazing how much can happen while you are at work for the day. Thanks for all the kind words.

Before this goes any further though, I have to say that some assumptions have been made that may have caused this to go further than it should have. As the tale passes around the campfire, it slightly changes from person to person... we've all played that game at one time or another I think.

When I logged in last night, I received a suspension notice so I checked my account details and the account is paid till August and the Credit Card had not expired so everything looked OK there.

I still have not received an e-mail stating a reason for the suspension so it is an assumption that it is tied to the goza issue. In almost 13 years, I have never been to jail, suspended, or received a GM complaint/warning so I have no idea what may have caused it. Until I receive an e-mail, it's not really fair to make too many assumptions.

For now, it's time to sit back and let the system work as it should. I have full faith in Mesanna and Cal and the rest of the team. I know - call me a fanboi if you like - many do already...

 

[Andrasta]

"Most" of us would like to be law abiding citizens and it does not seem unreasonable to ask to have clear laws to abide by. Perhaps in the future some day soon you could outline just exactly what is legal and what is not so those of us who do not wish to have bans or suspensions of any kind would have some advance warning. That would be much appreciated.

I do think also perhaps you could steer the GM department to the blatant cheaters running around on all the shards so that while I'm waiting my five hours for a GM to respond I know that they are seeking out the scripters and the dupers instead of the house decorators. I would find comfort in that and then the 5 hour wait might not seem so bad.

I would like to see you rescind all the marks on the accounts you have warned reinstated to clear. That might undo some of the damage you have done today.

 

[Trokip]

This smacks of another quick fix. No thought for the players, let them suffer. Don't even spend any time thinking about ways to fix whatever the problem is with Gozas with minimal impact on the players. I guess that would be too much work? I have two houses designed by a very good freind who has not been playing for a couple of months. I have no idea if she used Goza Mats or not. The other two I have to assume are OK but who knows what is going to be next. Like someone mentioned are house decorating tools to be Banned next. People take great pride in their housing and the creativity that went in to decorating them. If anyone had played this game for even just a few hours they would know that. This is sad day in UO history. To see many Vets quit because of this is going to be a a very, very sad day. Apparently good business decisions are not part of Mythics model. They keep driving more Vets out of the game without new players comming in. A really Sad Day!