[Discussion] When did we start to allow EM items to be 'rare'?

[Derium of ls]

first off, I am NOT trying to cause a fight, I am just wondering a few things.

I do remember when the term 'rare' covered server births and monthly spawning items and all event items were still considered rares, but they were called event items.

Then once rares collecting met Tram, people started calling everything a rare pretty much, so server births and any other really hard to find items became "true rares" with event items still holding a different name.

Now though people are calling EM items, event items, rubble, major artis ect all rares. It's right back to where we were in 2000, however I don't hear people complaining about the "misuse" of the word "rare" anymore...

This is the part where I need to stress that I do not mean any disrespect:

I see posts in this forum all the time that say "selling rares" and when I check it out, 90% of the time it's rubble or EM items. I just think it's funny because it's easier to find EM items or rubble for sale on a vendor than it is to find ingots or regs, pretty much making EM items the most common item in the game.

So has rares collecting started to drift away from true rares due to EA always ruining them by remaking them in common form? And even though EM items are so common, it's just the only road we have left as collectors?


thanks!
-Derium

p.s. oh, and why all of a sudden are people calling things such as bloody aids, open books, wigs, tarot cards, marble tables, skull candles, ect ect server births?

 

[Apetul]

For me, rare is every item that doesnt spawn anymore and exists in a very limited quantity.

About the open book, tarot, wig, etc.. they are listed as Server Births here:
http://vboards.stratics.com/showthread.php?t=98800

 

[Derium of ls]

hrm, so they are. But open books are mainly an Event item (trinny), most tarot came from the forced spawn (by glow in the bookcases), wigs were loot (if i remember right) and I don't think I saw a monthly/bi-monthly list on there. Maybe we should update that to reflect where most (if not all) of them really came from?

and I understand what you mean about any non-spawning item. Guess I have a different way of looking at it. Because to me they are spawning... and at a VERY high rate. they are just rehued and given different names most of the time. I just remember when most rares collectors would rip off someones head for trying to call even old school event items "rares" ha.

 

[DVI]

I think its just become a generic term used to refer to any non-spawning item, since there are now many different categories of items that we deal with in this forum.

 

[Gunga_Din]

RARE: An object that people want to have because it unique, one of a kind, limited in quantity, unusual, not obtainable anymore and might become valuable.

 

[Derium of ls]

RARE: An object that people want to have because it unique, one of a kind, limited in quantity, unusual, not obtainable anymore and might become valuable.

Well played, but as I said, had to said that a while ago, you woulda been under fire.

and in light of what DVI said, guess I'll reword it to this; When did people start to no longer classify rares, and started lumping them all together with the same titles?

I only started collecting again not too long ago, so I'm still trying to adjust to the changes ha.

 

[Gunga_Din]

Its just that there are all these new items now. When i first started collecting, all there was were server births or old spawns and loot [skull mugs, spittoons, blue glasses, wigs etc].

I understand what your saying, but there is just so much more to collect now than back in 1998-99.

So, we just lump them all together as rare items with subdivisions (true rares, EM items, server births etc)

I myself collect 75% of the old stuff and about 25% EM.

Old armor (sewn by and made by) wasnt really considered a rare till later, but they are considered rares items. Just look at it this way. The game is 12 yrs old, stuff from way back has a chance to be rare because it can no longer be obtained. Not rare then but rare now. Thats naturally how things happen.

Just take my definition and use that as your guide, then choose what you want to collect.

You might just have to do a bit of research first to find out how rare an item is before you purchase it. Its not as black and white as it used to be and collecting is much more complicated now. You really have to know your stuff. I stick to the older stuff because I know it better than EM event items. They produce so many its tough to keep track.

 

[Derium of ls]

That's exactly why I will not collect EM/new event items, I can never really be sure how many of them are out there without researching them. My private collection is server births, monthlies, old illegal items, forced spawns and event items that are Trinny invasion and before. Not only because of the nostalgia with them, but that's the system I understand and feel comfortable in. And to be honest, I can't understand why people even like any of the new event items, they are so common it turns me off from them.

I have NO problem with this massive explosion of interest in EM/new event items by any means, I want the rares community to be healthy but... I do find it interesting that so much focus is on event items now, yet old event items are being mislabeled as Server Births when they are not, I would have thought with such high interest in event items, why hasn't the old event items gained popularity?

And the second thing, my only complaint was I moved a large amount of gold over for Rares Fest. I had never been to a rares fest before, and to me I got rather upset because it was an EM/rubble fest. I didn't buy a single thing from the auction or vendors. Of course I will take the blame because I was close minded and in my mind I was still thinking old school on the labeling of rares. So I'm trying to adapt with the times, but also trying to understand them as well.

 

[Restroom Cowboy]

Derium, I have seen several of your posts where you adamantly speak out about your disagreement of EM goods...I don't see how this thread is constructively going to do anything for this community aside from allowing you another chance to speak out.

We get it, you don't like EM stuff....tough doo doo. /rant

 

[Derium of ls]

Derium, I have seen several of your posts where you adamantly speak out about your disagreement of EM goods...I don't see how this thread is constructively going to do anything for this community aside from allowing you another chance to speak out.

We get it, you don't like EM stuff....tough doo doo. /rant

Since when are you not allowed to understand something while not liking it? I hate paying taxes, but I took the time to understand how to do so in order for me to be able to work more smoothly in a system with them.

Plus if you actually took the time to read the thread instead of trolling you'd see I do like the resurrection of sorts in the rares trade. But as I also said, I'm old school and use to people attacking anyone who called even any event item a 'rare'. Before the Glowing Orb owner passed on, he even refused to call his one of a kind items 'rares'. sorry, that's just what I've 'grown up' in UO learning.

So pardon me for attempting to understand the current system so I can work with in it, shall I just post troll comments about how they are dumb?

 

[Restroom Cowboy]

Well see...if your post is trying to understand, and my post was giving you my opinion...what qualifies that as a troll? I gave my opinion, something most would ask for in a discussion.

Honestly, your thread is a troll. If it weren't, you would not be posting a reply after every post...but instead would allow an actual discussion to take place amongst all the members.

So again.../thead.

 

[Escaflowne]

This thread overall seems pretty pointless to me.

Times change. You can live in the past or change with them, its your choice

Rares these days are classed just like Gunga said

"RARE: An object that people want to have because it unique, one of a kind, limited in quantity, unusual, not obtainable anymore and might become valuable."

"So, we just lump them all together as rare items with subdivisions (true rares, EM items, server births etc)"


We are all known as Rare Collectors, whether it be server births we collect or EM event items; because these days all these different types of items are classed overall as rares

 

[Derium of ls]

So me replying to my own thread is a negative thing for the thread, yet you doing nothing more than failing to grasp the concept of the thread and trolling "would allow an actual discussion to take place amongst all the members"?


"a troll is someone who posts inflammatory, extraneous, or off-topic messages in an online community, such as an online discussion forum, chat room or blog, with the primary intent of provoking other users into a desired emotional response[1] or of otherwise disrupting normal on-topic discussion."

So I derailed my own thread by posting the thread itself? Isn't that some sort of paradox?

I do fail to see how you gave your opinion (as you claim). so let me be clear, your opinion on how the classification of 'rares' has morphed is due to me not liking EM items. So are you trying to say everyone in the rares community knew that the massive spread of EM/event items would displease me, therefore they labeled them as 'rares' just to cause a bit of confusion for me?

I know you're not as dumb as you want me to label you right now. So in all honesty, Do you actually think I'm only trying to pancake about the topic by posting my questions?



"first off, I am NOT trying to cause a fight, I am just wondering a few things."

"This is the part where I need to stress that I do not mean any disrespect:"

"I have NO problem with this massive explosion of interest in EM/new event items by any means"

"I want the rares community to be healthy"

"my only complaint was I moved a large amount of gold over for Rares Fest. I had never been to a rares fest before, and to me I got rather upset because it was an EM/rubble fest"

"Of course I will take the blame because I was close minded"

"I'm trying to adapt with the times, but also trying to understand them as well"


or are you just trying to call me a liar? That I do take personal. Seeing you can't possibly be that stupid, I can only assume the other option, and your troll post worked. I fed into it and derailed the topic.

So I'll ask you, in your opinion why am I not allowed (or shouldn't) ask the rares community why they changed their classification system that they held for most of UO?

 

[Derium of ls]

This thread overall seems pretty pointless to me.

Times change. You can live in the past or change with them, its your choice

Rares these days are classed just like Gunga said

"RARE: An object that people want to have because it unique, one of a kind, limited in quantity, unusual, not obtainable anymore and might become valuable."

"So, we just lump them all together as rare items with subdivisions (true rares, EM items, server births etc)"


We are all known as Rare Collectors, whether it be server births we collect or EM event items; because these days all these different types of items are classed overall as rares

I can understand that, and sorry if people feel this is a pointless thread. I'm just the sort of person when something is set in stone and you will be persecuted for not following it, all of a sudden changes, I normally just wonder why the change. simple as that.

forgive me for wondering that, just let the thread die then. I'll PM some of the bigger collectors and see if they know why and when it changed.

thanks.

 

[Escaflowne]

ask the rares community why they changed their classification system that they held for most of UO?

Why not? lol sorry just couldn't resist.

I guess it just makes it a lot easier and brings us together together under one banner and makes us more of a community i guess. I mean what would be the point in having factions of like 'Server Birth Collectors', 'EM Event Collectors', 'True Rare Collectors' when we could be all together and work more together under 'Rare Collectors'

 

[Escaflowne]

Just collect whatever type of rare you want to collect, you'll still be part of the community

 

[kelmo]

Just collect whatever type of rare you want to collect, you'll still be part of the community

I collect Trammel moonstones on Siege. Does that count?

 

[Escaflowne]

I can understand that, and sorry if people feel this is a pointless thread. I'm just the sort of person when something is set in stone and you will be persecuted for not following it, all of a sudden changes, I normally just wonder why the change. simple as that.

forgive me for wondering that, just let the thread die then. I'll PM some of the bigger collectors and see if they know why and when it changed.

thanks.

Sorry i was just struggling to to realize what you actually wanted from this thread until the the question at the end of your last post to Restroom The little flame war you two got going just kind of derails the thread anyway and confuses it a bit more.

 

[Escaflowne]

I collect Trammel moonstones on Siege. Does that count?

Lmao If you had a moonstone on siege i'd be pretty impressed

 

[kelmo]

I have two or three actually. One is prominently displayed on my desk in Iantown.

 

[Derium of ls]

I have two or three actually. One is prominently displayed on my desk in Iantown.

I think I remember something about people on siege talking about the pointless moonstones they would get around the birth of Tram. I might be wrong, but they did in fact spawn for a bit right?

 

[Escaflowne]

Well i stand impressed

I don't choose who joins the rares community, its not an exclusive club.

But you obviously read the rares board, have an interest in rares and collect a few bits yourself so i don't see why you can't consider yourself a rare collector

 

[kelmo]

ohh! For in game wedding presents I got a "book". Just like those ones you see at the banks and such. And a set of 1000 diamond rings? Those seem pretty rare.

 

[Restroom Cowboy]

So me replying to my own thread is a negative thing for the thread, yet you doing nothing more than failing to grasp the concept of the thread and trolling "would allow an actual discussion to take place amongst all the members"?

No, not allowing conversation to take its natural course amongst the community could be considered a negative thing. If you have to police your own thread and steer it in the direction YOU see fit, then it is a negative thing.

"a troll is someone who posts inflammatory, extraneous, or off-topic messages in an online community, such as an online discussion forum, chat room or blog, with the primary intent of provoking other users into a desired emotional response[1] or of otherwise disrupting normal on-topic discussion."

So you called my post a troll why? According to your own definition...by not allowing the natural progression of a topic you are a troll.

I do fail to see how you gave your opinion (as you claim). so let me be clear, your opinion on how the classification of 'rares' has morphed is due to me not liking EM items. So are you trying to say everyone in the rares community knew that the massive spread of EM/event items would displease me, therefore they labeled them as 'rares' just to cause a bit of confusion for me?

Nothing has changed here...EM items have been around for years. Your disapproval is nothing new, and did not need a thread. I was clear how I felt in my last post, and a bit of thought on your part should have allowed you to conclude that I did not agree with your proposal. However, I fail to see how repeating this to you would help such one sided discussion.

I know you're not as dumb as you want me to label you right now. So in all honesty, Do you actually think I'm only trying to pancake about the topic by posting my questions?

Yes, I do. You take a pop shot at EM stuff every opportunity you get. It is easy for me to come to such a simple minded conclusion.

"first off, I am NOT trying to cause a fight, I am just wondering a few things."

If this were true, you would allow for an open discussion to take place, THEN remark.

"This is the part where I need to stress that I do not mean any disrespect:"

If this were true, you would not say things like...

I know you're not as dumb as you want me to label you right now.

"I have NO problem with this massive explosion of interest in EM/new event items by any means"

If this were true, you would not express your distaste for such items at every opportune moment.

"I want the rares community to be healthy"

Then allow it to be healthy. I am all for transparency and an open community.

"my only complaint was I moved a large amount of gold over for Rares Fest. I had never been to a rares fest before, and to me I got rather upset because it was an EM/rubble fest"

People do have the ability to create *noobs* for the expressed purpose of *checking things out*.

"I'm trying to adapt with the times, but also trying to understand them as well"

Ok great...but again, you have to have an open mind in order for you to process the information.

or are you just trying to call me a liar? That I do take personal. Seeing you can't possibly be that stupid, I can only assume the other option, and your troll post worked. I fed into it and derailed the topic.

Not a liar no...never even implied that. Again, if you consider my opinion a troll...then you really are not open minded with the discussion. Constructive criticism is supposed to be just what it implies...constructive.

So I'll ask you, in your opinion why am I not allowed (or shouldn't) ask the rares community why they changed their classification system that they held for most of UO?

I don't have an issue with you asking a question. I have an issue with you taking a pop shot at EM goods at every possible avenue. Again, EM goods have been a part of the rares community for some time...as far back as I remember. The only ones that were not considered (AFIAK) were the ones that were heavily duped.

I hope that adds clarification...and again, you will notice I tried to remain as objective as I could about my opinions...

 

[kelmo]

Wow! That is quite a wall of text! Is that rare? *chuckles*

 

[Escaflowne]

lol Kelmo

 

[Derium of ls]

I'll break down everything you said cowboy later and make a longer reply, but it seems that your entire gripe here is that since I dislike EM items means I do not reserve the right to delve into questions about them. I also do not see how I was derailing the conversation because I was involved in the conversation. I am after all the one asking the questions, so when people answer it, I'd like a chance to reply. If that was the way it worked, a debate team would need hundreds of people because you would need a new person for every single retort.

In second thought, I think because of this: "Yes, I do. You take a pop shot at EM stuff every opportunity you get. It is easy for me to come to such a simple minded conclusion." I will skip replying to your entire post. If your mind is set that I'm only asking this question to create a false persona about my hatred for EM items, thus using it as an avenue to pancake some more... then not only are you 100% wrong (I am me after all, I know my intentions, no matter how much you try to convince me otherwise) but it's also pointless because your mind is set.

So for the rest of the pointless argument with you in this thread, please consider this my reply to you the rest of the way out: "insert ellipsis". If you wish to falsely accuse me, then please take it to PM. or I will supply you with my phone number.

 

[Restroom Cowboy]

You are eluding to the entire wall of text presented. You win.

 

[Sarsmi]

It's a simplification born from the fact that this game gets new players for whom most things in the past get lumped together, also a lot of older people play and get forgetful when there is so much minutiae of UO knowledge to store and remember *points to self*, also the percentage of vendors versus buyers is much changed. There are many more sellers now than in the old days and the word RARE has more charm and draw than a more specific but correct description would. Also consider that there is an extremely small limit of characters when naming a vendor or their shop (personal pet peeve here).

 

[Derium of ls]

It's a simplification born from the fact that this game gets new players for whom most things in the past get lumped together, also a lot of older people play and get forgetful when there is so much minutiae of UO knowledge to store and remember *points to self*, also the percentage of vendors versus buyers is much changed. There are many more sellers now than in the old days and the word RARE has more charm and draw than a more specific but correct description would. Also consider that there is an extremely small limit of characters when naming a vendor or their shop (personal pet peeve here).

at least we can now name the vendors I always loved placing and replacing vendors until you got a halfway decent name *sigh*

the increased amount of sellers is a great thing, that's the main reason I wish I could get into rubble and new event items. It's been a long time since I've easily been able to find items I want ha!

on a side note, even with the increased number of sellers of rare items. I have noticed a decline in people trying to sell common items as rares, but as I said before there is also a huge increase in people trying to pass off rare items as even more rare. Me and a few friends found at least 7 vendors at rares fest claiming either an item was a server birth when it wasn't (still rare items though) or claiming a new event item was more rare then the numbers posted here on stratics.

 

[Radugast]

I couldnt bare to read the bulk of this thread and excuse me if this was mentioned, but event items have been around almost as long as the game has been out. You want to see some really old items go check out the museum on Baja west of Umbra.. These things have approximate dates in the description books. Are they Rare? Absolutely... even more so than serverbirths..

 

[Derium of ls]

I couldnt bare to read the bulk of this thread and excuse me if this was mentioned, but event items have been around almost as long as the game has been out. You want to see some really old items go check out the museum on Baja west of Umbra.. These things have approximate dates in the description books. Are they Rare? Absolutely... even more so than serverbirths..

I haven't been there, I'll have to check it out. Have you been to Glowing Orb on LS? He has a lot of one of a kind event items here, pretty much the entire castle is full of amazing items.

I by NO means am trying to say those old event items are not rares by any means. I only meant people (back in the day) NEVER called them 'rares' (if they did, they would say things like 'rare event items'), but now even the common event items given out (Hell, even artis/vet rewards) are all labeled as 'rares'. Just interesting how times have changed with what people would once yell at you for saying, is not the norm.

Also, to kinda answer my own question a bit, could it be because for example open books were called Trinny invasion items, and other event items were 'tagged' with the event they came from. but now a days SO many event items are being pumped out that it's next to impossible for people to know all the event names? So it's just easier to call them 'rares'?

 

[Athelas]

Sorry got to go off topic a bit, GorMach passed?


Also, the museum west of Umbra on Baja is a Seer Item museum.
People can say all day that Seer events were the EM events of their day but the fact remains that they are Seer Items and not Event Items.





Athelas [Treasure Trove] Museum, Atlantic

 

[Radugast]

Yes, I think its valid to differentiate Seer from EM items but the fact remains that they are all from events. heh The word "event" is pretty wide open. Heck, even rubble is from an event.

 

[Derium of ls]

Yes, I think its valid to differentiate Seer from EM items but the fact remains that they are all from events. heh The word "event" is pretty wide open. Heck, even rubble is from an event.

To be honest... I completely overlooked the fact rubble IS event items...

 

[Restroom Cowboy]

To be honest... I completely overlooked the fact rubble IS event items...

DOH!

 

[Cogniac]

I don't get it.

EM items are unique, made in highly limited quantities and then never made again. That sounds like the very definition of a rare item.

Maybe I'm missing something.

 

[THP]

In all fairness the EMs are churning so many items albeit in limited numbers that any collector cannot seroiusly collect all the items..u would simply need 5 castles to display it all!!! alas iam in the same boat...rare items are the old server birth stuff for me...hey i like doing the EM events and the little trinkets we sometimes get are a nice reward/reminder of the event, alas ''shard hopper'' people trying to make huge prophit from such events are basically gonna kill them off again, because all i see is gimme gimme gimme, and not a lot of people getting ''into'' the events, just riding along to loot the stuff [end].

 

[Tomas_Bryce]

This thread is going nowhere.