You have to rely on items if you're a dexer such and bandaids and potions...I dont think you should be penalized for using them.
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Factions Statloss
- Thread starter Phoenix_Mythic
- Start date
- Watchers 3
You have to rely on items if you're a dexer such and bandaids and potions...I dont think you should be penalized for using them.
L
Lord GOD(GOD)
Guest
Just to be clear...
Things I intended for this idea were heal pots, cure pots, trap boxes, petals and bolas. Not faction consumables, bandages, refresh pots, poison pots or darts/stars, kinda undecided on smoke bombs but probably not.
Anyway, you're clearly not in agreement, and no one else seems interested, and I wasn't particularly bothered to start with, I was just trying find a way to balance my own opinion that the current stat loss should be removed, so I'll leave it at that. Thanks for the discussion.
Just think of how much time we could have saved....
Sure
L
Lord GOD(GOD)
Guest
.... if you'd replied with reasons to start with.
I was disagreeing without providing reasons. Lol, I should have just left it alone..oh well..
S
Stupid Miner
Guest
Would be interesting to give people in statloss something constructive to do other than be fodder. Something they can do to affect combat, while not being directly engaged in it. I'm thinking they could do something... construction-ish to help prevent raiders from getting in a base, or on the other side, to help raiders get in a base.
Let’s move the discussion back to statloss...
I completely agree that consumables need to be rebalanced in pvp but I think there are more effective ways then trying to incorporate them into a statloss system.
I will start a seperate thread for ideas on Balancing Consumables: HERE
The Discussion brought up some great points on how skill and items relate to Statloss; Particularly "How items are used to reduce the negative effects of stat loss".
Current Issue: Statloss reduces a player's unmodified skill by 33%. However through the use of items, you have thieves who can steal sigils in statloss, mages who can continue to field and enjoy the defensive ability granted by mage weapons, ninja's who can animal form into the faster animals, etc, etc. Players can also use Soulstones to avoid statloss penalties.
Potential Solution: To prevent players from bypassing the intended negative effects of statloss, skills should be locked at -33% and should not be able to be modified by items until the statloss timer has ended. Nor should a player be able to access a Soulstone (or soulstone fragment) while in statloss.
**Additional Issue: When using "Combat Specials" a Tactics check is made using "real skill" or unmodified skill. Currently Statloss is viewed by the game as modified skill then real skill loss. This effectively bypasses the consequences of statloss for Melee/Archers who can continue to use specials while in statloss. Statloss change to skills should be considered "real skill change" rather then "modified skill change" for the duration of the statloss timer for ALL SKILLS .
I completely agree that consumables need to be rebalanced in pvp but I think there are more effective ways then trying to incorporate them into a statloss system.
I will start a seperate thread for ideas on Balancing Consumables: HERE
The Discussion brought up some great points on how skill and items relate to Statloss; Particularly "How items are used to reduce the negative effects of stat loss".
Current Issue: Statloss reduces a player's unmodified skill by 33%. However through the use of items, you have thieves who can steal sigils in statloss, mages who can continue to field and enjoy the defensive ability granted by mage weapons, ninja's who can animal form into the faster animals, etc, etc. Players can also use Soulstones to avoid statloss penalties.
Potential Solution: To prevent players from bypassing the intended negative effects of statloss, skills should be locked at -33% and should not be able to be modified by items until the statloss timer has ended. Nor should a player be able to access a Soulstone (or soulstone fragment) while in statloss.
**Additional Issue: When using "Combat Specials" a Tactics check is made using "real skill" or unmodified skill. Currently Statloss is viewed by the game as modified skill then real skill loss. This effectively bypasses the consequences of statloss for Melee/Archers who can continue to use specials while in statloss. Statloss change to skills should be considered "real skill change" rather then "modified skill change" for the duration of the statloss timer for ALL SKILLS .
C
Cloak&Dagger
Guest
I agree they should take the bad in as well, but most people (not saying you, although I am sure if I looked through all the threads it might apply to you as well) its more than just being a critic, people offer no positive way to improve what they feel is wrong, its just "devs you suck". Take the bases for example, very simply people could have said "can we not have so many entrances? And unless you have some really good plans for the bases being this big, maybe get them to where I am not spending a half hour running through them just to get in and out?" that is a ton better than "Who ever designed these bases sucks and has no idea what they are doing". Same with the majority of the beginning posts, Negativity is all that was brought, not criticism. If you want to be a critic of "Ideas" then offer counter Ideas, it is not like they said "here is the system as we are putting it in" they said "test this and tell us what you think" Sure as I said, change is coming like it or not, but at least they are offering us a chance to try and help them make it a bit more how we would like it rather than just force feeding us their ideas.
Ok I did not mean to go on like that.....I am sure you understood.
C
Cloak&Dagger
Guest
All of this.
You need to remember that several of the people who have been posting here went through the last couple of focus groups and the SA beta and it was pretty obvious that the developers already knew what they wanted to do and weren't really interested in getting a lot of feedback. For the beta, they just wanted people to test and make sure stuff wasn't broken. For the focus groups, I think the whole idea was just lip service, a big show to make it possible to deflect any future criticism for what was implemented onto a group of players. And that is exactly what did happen. A lot of people who were peeved about not being in a focus group or a beta made posts later complaining about the stuff that "players" managed to push through when the reality was that the stuff they were complaining about was stuff that the players who were in the focus group or the beta didn't like and complained about. It was all mostly a waste of time, as I think this probably will be too. This forum is probably all just lip service too and cheaper and easier for EA to manage than running an internal forum to collect information on broken stuff in test or feedback about proposed changes.Cloak‡1691445 said:
Watch and see. I predict everything will get put in more or less the way it is originally rolled out and any modifications from the original design will be relatively minor. I'm not trying to say that what the developers have come up with is bad. I don't think any of us know enough of all of the details yet to really say that now. I just don't expect our feedback to really matter that much.
C
Cloak&Dagger
Guest
Things tend to change, but then things stay the same as well.
Recently the Developers have taken an interest more so in what we are asking, or even suggesting, comparatively to what they did during the focus group, and the beta. But again, as I pointed out, change is coming like it or not mind as well try to help it be a good change, instead of trying to be headstrong and saying "Don't make changes", which is the core of my point.
If you are unwilling to help bring about change, and just want to go against the current, or even better placed wording "the gods" then the change will reflect nothing of what you hope or aspire. This same thing happened in the beta, and in the focus groups, there was to much "do not do that" and less "how about we tweak it like this?" It was simple during those two settings and it is simple now. It is not exactly cheaper for them to use these boards vs their own, so no merit in that. I am not saying everything we suggest will be put in, but the developers are not exactly offering their own ideas for how to change things, but have only presented ideas we have had and asked for more, that alone is a tell of how they are taking what we are saying and incorporating it, sure it more than likely wont be "exactly" what anyone asked for, but it is a resemblance of it.
Recently the Developers have taken an interest more so in what we are asking, or even suggesting, comparatively to what they did during the focus group, and the beta. But again, as I pointed out, change is coming like it or not mind as well try to help it be a good change, instead of trying to be headstrong and saying "Don't make changes", which is the core of my point.
If you are unwilling to help bring about change, and just want to go against the current, or even better placed wording "the gods" then the change will reflect nothing of what you hope or aspire. This same thing happened in the beta, and in the focus groups, there was to much "do not do that" and less "how about we tweak it like this?" It was simple during those two settings and it is simple now. It is not exactly cheaper for them to use these boards vs their own, so no merit in that. I am not saying everything we suggest will be put in, but the developers are not exactly offering their own ideas for how to change things, but have only presented ideas we have had and asked for more, that alone is a tell of how they are taking what we are saying and incorporating it, sure it more than likely wont be "exactly" what anyone asked for, but it is a resemblance of it.
It's way too early yet to say for sure whether they've incorporated ANYTHING anyone here has suggested. All we know at this point is that they're tweaking the point system because they obviously got something wrong in the coding. I have my doubts about whether anything we suggest will be included. And yes, I have made suggestions already....I guess you didn't see them.Cloak‡1691581 said:
Paps-said
"if we listened to all the whiners whom dont want people to
actually play their templates,,,or use their items
UO would have nothing but pure mages in it. "
btw i`ve beaten people without pots,bolas,or the other things ingame your griping about.these are tools put ingame to be used,,,if you dont like them,stop playing.
knowing what to do and when to do it helps on any template.Playing a mage can be more difficult but to say other types of chars dont use at least some form of timing is assinine.
As for the poll earlier
1-Stat loss,,,keep it,,,those that want 0 stat loss,,,dont join factions
2-20 minutes does seem steep which is why many `bypass` it by merely logging into a diff char and going right back to the fight. IMO i like the idea of a 15 min max on stat loss.
3-reduction of stat loss,,,i like the idea of a shrter stat loss by each town held either 30-60 seconds per town held.
I also like the idea that there be a `buffer` after ressing say 10-30 seconds that if you get reskilled by an oj you lose no points nor go into stat loss.This will help prevent the stealth archers with spirit speak [to see ghosts] camping red healers for getting punkte points.
having a reduced stat loss or no stat loss in say t2a or other non-faction related asreas has the `okie-dokie` by me.
"if we listened to all the whiners whom dont want people to
actually play their templates,,,or use their items
UO would have nothing but pure mages in it. "
Then create your own `mage only` shard and go play it,,,current UO is not for you.
OMGOOSES!!that dexxer relies heavily on whats ingame to win,,,WE L33T MAGES CANT LET THAT HAPPEN!!!!OH NOZ
btw i`ve beaten people without pots,bolas,or the other things ingame your griping about.these are tools put ingame to be used,,,if you dont like them,stop playing.
OMG,,,NON-MAGE TEMPLATES NOT USING MAGERY SPELLS,,,OH NOZ!!
knowing what to do and when to do it helps on any template.Playing a mage can be more difficult but to say other types of chars dont use at least some form of timing is assinine.
As for the poll earlier
1-Stat loss,,,keep it,,,those that want 0 stat loss,,,dont join factions
2-20 minutes does seem steep which is why many `bypass` it by merely logging into a diff char and going right back to the fight. IMO i like the idea of a 15 min max on stat loss.
3-reduction of stat loss,,,i like the idea of a shrter stat loss by each town held either 30-60 seconds per town held.
I also like the idea that there be a `buffer` after ressing say 10-30 seconds that if you get reskilled by an oj you lose no points nor go into stat loss.This will help prevent the stealth archers with spirit speak [to see ghosts] camping red healers for getting punkte points.
having a reduced stat loss or no stat loss in say t2a or other non-faction related asreas has the `okie-dokie` by me.
L
Lord GOD(GOD)
Guest
You didn't understand the idea. Still don't.
The idea applied equally to Mages.
I wasn't referring to non Mage templates. I was speaking generally. As I already said the idea would affect all templates.
As for the rest of your angry ranting gibberish it doesn't apply.
C
Cloak&Dagger
Guest
I never said you didn't.....My posts are in a broad aspect of everything being said here, not at you personally. I know I am responding to you, but I can still answer you with a broad aspect to it.
hmm,,,angry,,,nope. not here.laughing more accurately.
you are wrong again.
you dislike what people have ingame that was put there to be used
you have the problem with it.
I`m not saying you `have to like` the current gameplay
but i get tired of hearing all the crying about how item x shouldn't be ingame when obviosly its being used as intended.
But please go right ahead and create the `perfect shard` to where this great timing of spellplay beats everything and go play on it.I`m certain you'll do so much better than the UO team right?
Base it on the rank of the player that killed you. The higher the rank of the person that killed you the longer your stat loss.
Lower rank = Less duration
Higher rank = Greater duration
If there's 10 ranks maybe have stat loss = 2 min/Faction Rank.
L
Lord GOD(GOD)
Guest
No I don't. The idea was to balance the use of items that require no skill so that they are not better than skill methods. And as I said before much of it was put there before the way it is currently used. As stat loss is up for debate it was an idea to merge both in a relatively low level but wider spread way than we have now, to counter balance me also being in favour of removing the current stat loss.
No I don't, I use the stuff as well.
You don't know how anything is intended, you are not a developer, and you do not have access to their design docs. If you think everything in UO is working as intended then you must have your head in the sand, there are many unintended things in UO.
Spellplay is interruptable, this means players have to use timing, weapons swing automatically, pets attack automatically. I haven't said that spellplay should beat everything, that chip is only on your shoulder, I just made the observation that it is player skill based instead of item and RNG based (like specials landing).
Create the perfect shard? Right, because I work for EA now? Even if I did I wouldn't go do anything suggested by you because you're an angry ranting idiot.
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Cloak&Dagger
Guest
The only part really worth commenting on....The Developers do not even have the design docs. Lets not forget the amount of developers we have gone through, not to mention all the original coding is spaghetti code. But the items are being used "as intended" Describe how they are not and I will agree with you, cure pots cure poison, heal potions heal, bolas dismount. Those are the intentions of them. You already know I am not against your idea in a general sense, but sometimes it takes a little more than tossing around "possibilities" to win an argument.
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Cloak&Dagger
Guest
OK, so they want to revamp Stat loss, they also want to make it new player friendly (not sure how that is but, that is sort of the basis of my newest Idea) and to add to that puni had said to do it based on rank.
What about, base it on the length of time you have spent actually Participating in faction fighting? If we incorporate the other ideas of stat loss only counting when faction activities are going on, then can we not have a timer for the amount of time spent on faction activities? So if you spend x amount of time participating in faction activities, then your stat loss would be y but if you spent z time then your stat loss timer would be v. And this would be based on total time over the age of the char spent doing factions? Or maybe have it account bound, so it is based on the amount of time the account has spent doing it, that sounds less exploitable. Also toss in only having the stat loss during faction activities, and you will have a new player friendly system. Basically after x amount of time you should be aware that you will be in stat if you die, so new players will be able to pvp more and older players wont be able to come back instantly.
What about, base it on the length of time you have spent actually Participating in faction fighting? If we incorporate the other ideas of stat loss only counting when faction activities are going on, then can we not have a timer for the amount of time spent on faction activities? So if you spend x amount of time participating in faction activities, then your stat loss would be y but if you spent z time then your stat loss timer would be v. And this would be based on total time over the age of the char spent doing factions? Or maybe have it account bound, so it is based on the amount of time the account has spent doing it, that sounds less exploitable. Also toss in only having the stat loss during faction activities, and you will have a new player friendly system. Basically after x amount of time you should be aware that you will be in stat if you die, so new players will be able to pvp more and older players wont be able to come back instantly.
L
Lord GOD(GOD)
Guest
I'm not saying they don't do what they're supposed to, what I'm saying is that they are over used and over relied on to the point where people build whole templates around them and it affects more than just staying alive and putting people you can't catch on foot.Cloak‡1693825 said:
If you don't need a way to heal/cure on your template because you're using items, you have more points for offense and it affects the balance of a fight.
As stat loss was up for discussion it seemed a way to kill 2 birds with 1 stone. Aside from my own belief that template skills should be the prefered or primary method, I frequently read how people want these consumables balanced, a thread thats taken off in the faction forum about the same topic (surprisingly) supports this. (Surprising considering the lack of interest/dislike it got here.) If my idea isn't what is wanted thats fine, I've never claimed to have all the answers, but you need to have understood the idea before you can decide and many of the inital responses indicated they hadn't.
The thread in the faction forum is suggesting stronger balances (or nerfs depending how you look at it) than I have and is generating more positive discussion.
There's nothing to win (which would be a childish outlook I don't have anyway) because he isn't discussing anything, he is just ranting over an idea he hasn't understood.Cloak‡1693825 said:
He thinks my idea is to make UO 100% pure Mages by nerfing consumables out of use, it isn't. By arguing with a post he hadn't understood, I replied to a part of his reply with the observation that spellplay timing is the only player skill based system in UO, not because Mages are great or any of his other bs, but because spells are interruptable and you need to time when they are input and when they are targeted. With weapons you don't, the game swings them automatically and how effective they are comes down to what you have equipped, if your specials land it comes down to RNG. It doesn't matter when you time a special if you miss the hit. This isn't anything to do with what I proposed it was just a general response to part of his misunderstood assertion that my idea was a whine for [insert evil hidden agenda here].
A small penalty on some pot use affects all templates to balance the removal of stat loss (or more accurately my want for stat loss to be removed as we were originally asked). This was part of my idea.
If it wasn't for correcting his misunderstandings I wouldn't reply to his posts at all but as he continues to try and misrepresent an idea that wasn't his and that he hasn't understood it is unfortunately necessary.
C
Cloak&Dagger
Guest
Well, sure. I do not disagree, as I have pointed out various ways to balance the use of pots, and other consumables.
And there was no better way to put what I said other than to state it how I did. You are in a "dispute" no matter how you look at it, you are trying to make him understand, if you do you in all likelihood "win" if you have better terminology for it, then I have nothing against that but it is a dispute, or debate, or argument. And in such cases there is a winner to all of those. Either way the basic point was that the examples you gave really did nothing to prove your case, and while he may or may not understand where you are coming from, I am sure the examples would not have made him see the light. Of course you could always just discontinue the conversation if you feel he is never going to understand.
Of course now that we have for the most part gotten off topic, I would like to try to get back to it.
Are you suggesting the removal of stat loss in favor of making consumables less reliable? I admit I am confused how these two topics actually went hand in hand, and also admit I did not and still am not sure I understand what your idea is. I agree with your "points" but the idea seems a bit blur to me.
L
Lord GOD(GOD)
Guest
They don't particularly go hand in hand, but as consumable balance/reliance is often a topic of debate, and one I agree with, and stat loss was up for discussion I attempted to combine the two within my idea.Cloak‡1694661 said:
My idea is...
1stly remove the current stat loss.
As this alone is quite a big deal I feel it is necessary to add a mild handicap in another way to balance it. That is...
2ndly for SOME items (mainly heal pots, cure pots, trap boxes and bolas) repeated or excessive use (definitions of not currently worth debating due to lack of understanding/interest) would give 'a type' of stat loss.
In post #126 I re-explained the idea with some examples.
For example, you know the way Pain Spike works? First damage does its normal amount, 2nd damage does a smaller amount unless it wears off. Well think of that in terms of Cure potions and skill penalties, 1st potion no penalty, 1 minute cooldown (not on the use, but on the penalty, you can still use the item indefinitely), if a 2nd is used within a minute a 1.0 skill penalty, again if 1 minute passes without another potion being used skill returns to normal, if a 3rd is used within that minute (like with pain spike) a lesser amount is done - say 0.1 skill loss, still 1 minute cooldown without another potion being used for skill to return. Total penalty capped at say -5.0. So if you were spamming Cure pots like no tomorrow you would first of all take 1.0, then 0.1 and keep taking 0.1's until you either reach -5.0 or stop using potions for 1 whole minute for your skill to return.
So, no, its not so much remove stat loss and make items less reliable. It's remove stat loss and make item dependancy debuff skills that you're not using (when you quite easily could/should be). Not exactly by any drastic amount in my examples. Which is why I don't particularly get the upset its caused. You can still use the items, and low skill debuffs (1-5) are not going to make the sky fall down, but it might make you rely on items less.
Oh and it would only apply to faction members.
C
Cloak&Dagger
Guest
I see, I may have missed you explaining it, if that is the same way you explained it before. Not sure how I feel about your idea, but it would seem it would not properly address either issue.
For example, Stat loss in any form should be a faction item, so to allow non-faction players to use items with out this penalty would unbalance the system and thus lead to no one playing in factions. On the other hand, making this a mandatory loss for everyone who pvps also does not address the issue of "Faction" stat loss. This was where I became confused, if you apply stat loss to everyone then what is the definitive "win" in factions? And if you only apply it to factions, this type of system would encourage players to be non-faction as the loss of using items vs someone using items is to great.
For example, Stat loss in any form should be a faction item, so to allow non-faction players to use items with out this penalty would unbalance the system and thus lead to no one playing in factions. On the other hand, making this a mandatory loss for everyone who pvps also does not address the issue of "Faction" stat loss. This was where I became confused, if you apply stat loss to everyone then what is the definitive "win" in factions? And if you only apply it to factions, this type of system would encourage players to be non-faction as the loss of using items vs someone using items is to great.
L
Lord GOD(GOD)
Guest
You may have missed it, as I was editing the post, but I added that I think the idea should only apply to factions.
Its not mandatory loss, you don't have to use the item, and there would be a amount you can use before its considered excessive. It doesn't have to be after the 1st use it could be after the 5th before penalties start.
I don't think -1 to -5 in skills for 1 minute is going to kill off people participating in factions but as the use of those items is so widespread in current UO it would at least make it relavent in a fight. Current stat loss isn't, it just means you leave or go afk. But a few skill points still allows you to fight.
I don't think it would encourage people not to be in factions but encourage them (with their better artifacts) to fight other factioners over non factioners. Which is something non factioners have been concerned about. You're not losing items you're just having to manage them better.
Are you saying the current "win" in factions is putting someone in stat so they have to leave for 20 mins? That may end big fights but only because you're reducing effective player numbers. The "win" really comes down to playstyle, the sigils/towns is (or should be) a part of it though thats a whole other area that needs discussing, but for fighting playstyles a kill is a win regardless of whether the person leaves or not.
Its not mandatory loss, you don't have to use the item, and there would be a amount you can use before its considered excessive. It doesn't have to be after the 1st use it could be after the 5th before penalties start.
I don't think -1 to -5 in skills for 1 minute is going to kill off people participating in factions but as the use of those items is so widespread in current UO it would at least make it relavent in a fight. Current stat loss isn't, it just means you leave or go afk. But a few skill points still allows you to fight.
I don't think it would encourage people not to be in factions but encourage them (with their better artifacts) to fight other factioners over non factioners. Which is something non factioners have been concerned about. You're not losing items you're just having to manage them better.
Are you saying the current "win" in factions is putting someone in stat so they have to leave for 20 mins? That may end big fights but only because you're reducing effective player numbers. The "win" really comes down to playstyle, the sigils/towns is (or should be) a part of it though thats a whole other area that needs discussing, but for fighting playstyles a kill is a win regardless of whether the person leaves or not.
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Cloak&Dagger
Guest
The "win" I am talking about is sort of how you put it, except what I meant was that when you are defending the sigils it is not 10 hours of fighting. You get (obviously) brief down times to sort of re-plan your defense. I did not mean exclusively for pvp it was a win if they are in stat, killing someone is the winning factor, but in factions the 20 minute downturn can be helpful.
How about making it an accruing system.
You die initially say stat is 10 mins;
You die again within 10 mins restarting the stat timer its 15 mins in stats,
You die again its 20 mins restarting timer.
You die initially say stat is 10 mins;
You die again within 10 mins restarting the stat timer its 15 mins in stats,
You die again its 20 mins restarting timer.
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Locryn Finck
Guest
That discourages people from playing in stat.
No more than it already does.
Leave statloss in. If I can play in stats so can all of you, now don't make me think you are all weak, and cannot play in stats. 
my image of the uber pvpers will be totally crushed
my image of the uber pvpers will be totally crushedI don't think we were really debating whether we could or not.
Could vs. want to, are two different thingsLeave statloss in. If I can play in stats so can all of you, now don't make me think you are all weak, and cannot play in stats.
I totally agree with you Tina! Just by the statements the Dev has made, he has already made his mind up what is best for Factions and come hell or high water, they will be put into play. That is why I refuse to log into the Faction Test Center to work out any bugs that are a result from the changes.
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Locryn Finck
Guest
Statloss does not matter so much if all you want to do (by your own description) is "relax" while guarding sigils.Leave statloss in. If I can play in stats so can all of you, now don't make me think you are all weak, and cannot play in stats.
You call yourself a "Trammy Factioneer" and you seem to take some sort of pleasure in mocking "pvprs". Then you go on to express your support of statloss, an antiquated system that limits an already small pvp community.
I speak for a lot of those jerk pvprs when is say:
Go camp a navrey and keep your passive aggressive smack to yourself.
Ya when not under attack DUH!!!!
when I posted this
now don't make me think you are all weak, and cannot play in stats.
my image of the uber pvpers will be totally crushed.I was kidding didn't mean to hurt you lil pvper heart should I get you a box of tissues?
I still stand on leaving statloss the way it is.
Maybe you should be the one camping a navery if you are going to cry about posts
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Locryn Finck
Guest
What makes you stand by your taste for statloss?
I have a theory:
You hate direct pvp. You have already admitted you enjoy the "relaxation" of sitting around at sigs. I have a hard time believing you would do this alone. So I take it you run with a group of people. Since you don't seem to want to broach the FIGHTING aspect of things openly, I take it you are not very good. This of course makes me think that any success you have comes only with assistance. Depending on the size or population of your server, that level of assistance could range from immense (5 or 6) to a close knit group (2-3). But the fact remains: You are happiest when you are GUARDING. Not FIGHTING.
Since EA has made a firm push toward rolling most of traditional pvp INTO factions with incentives, it stands to reason that factions is evolving beyond the hideously distended and buggy version of capture the flag it has historically been. If EA wants to keep using these incentives (resable horses, enhanced artifacts), they are clearly attempting to invite more pvprs into the fold. That being the case, it puts individuals like you in a tricky situation:
Either hide behind statloss, or face more fighting that can't be turned off with a nice, quick gank. In other words,
Learn to pvp. My opinion is that factioneers are the soft ones. Spawn control used to force guilds to suppress wave after wave of fully skilled players or die trying. A gimp dismount gank might buy you a couple minutes, but it wouldn't stop the tide. Not without sustained, effective group tactics.
Factioneers who rely on statloss are soft. You might even call them, "carebears". Again, I think you might consider a nice "relaxing" vacation at navrey should statloss be shrunk.
I have a theory:
You hate direct pvp. You have already admitted you enjoy the "relaxation" of sitting around at sigs. I have a hard time believing you would do this alone. So I take it you run with a group of people. Since you don't seem to want to broach the FIGHTING aspect of things openly, I take it you are not very good. This of course makes me think that any success you have comes only with assistance. Depending on the size or population of your server, that level of assistance could range from immense (5 or 6) to a close knit group (2-3). But the fact remains: You are happiest when you are GUARDING. Not FIGHTING.
Since EA has made a firm push toward rolling most of traditional pvp INTO factions with incentives, it stands to reason that factions is evolving beyond the hideously distended and buggy version of capture the flag it has historically been. If EA wants to keep using these incentives (resable horses, enhanced artifacts), they are clearly attempting to invite more pvprs into the fold. That being the case, it puts individuals like you in a tricky situation:
Either hide behind statloss, or face more fighting that can't be turned off with a nice, quick gank. In other words,
Learn to pvp. My opinion is that factioneers are the soft ones. Spawn control used to force guilds to suppress wave after wave of fully skilled players or die trying. A gimp dismount gank might buy you a couple minutes, but it wouldn't stop the tide. Not without sustained, effective group tactics.
Factioneers who rely on statloss are soft. You might even call them, "carebears". Again, I think you might consider a nice "relaxing" vacation at navrey should statloss be shrunk.
I never said I hate directed pvp I refuse to directly fight against others who feel they need to cheat to win.
I don't take off when Im in statloss, and I know some of the players who do directed pvp, who still get out there and pvp even in statloss. So are you saying your one of those that gets killed runs, and hides waiting out statloss. Is navery where you hide out at ?
Stat loss should stay.
The reason for stat loss was to allow 1 group to be a final victor in a battle.
Personally, I think stat loss should be 100% of skill loss for the approved time period. If you die in battle, you're out of that battle. No coming back at all.
It is far too easy to "book up" (for mages) or "jewel up" your in-stat character and get right back into the fight. This is contrary to the purpose of stat loss. You should be down and out for the count. If you want to continue the fight, jump on another character.
The reason for stat loss was to allow 1 group to be a final victor in a battle.
Personally, I think stat loss should be 100% of skill loss for the approved time period. If you die in battle, you're out of that battle. No coming back at all.
It is far too easy to "book up" (for mages) or "jewel up" your in-stat character and get right back into the fight. This is contrary to the purpose of stat loss. You should be down and out for the count. If you want to continue the fight, jump on another character.
L
Locryn Finck
Guest
Great post "Guy From UO 5 Years Ago!"
Nothing you say is at all wrong! Unless you consider the fact that UO has an anemic pvp population as it is. Is this concept REALLY that hard to get? I know it is a message board and you people clearly love being alone in Felucca but really.
Players should only be subjected to point gains while in the vicinity of a town sigil. (So only during capturing, defending, attacking or transporting activities should factioners be able to gain points). If you cant take the statloss then you shouldnt get the points. Your doing something like a champ kill someone no points yew gate no points.
I've guarded versus raids that have lasted hours against several different factions with very little break in between. This is the real reason for statloss.
In turn, it takes what, 20 minutes to do a champ spawn? It takes 10 hours to guard the sigils. I doubt you're grinding coon for 10 hours. Hardly soft in my opinion.
J
[JD]
Guest
huge thread so i couldnt read it all, but statloss should stay to help provide a 'victory'. that said, ive seen fights which went on 30 or even 60 minutes. so the lowering of statloss to 5 min would be a joke at best.
i think 10 min as the default is about right. but the timer could go up or down depending on a couple things.
you could have a less lengthy statloss if you get ressed by someone with a special skill or certain level in a virtue.
you could have a more lengthy statloss based on how uber the faction gear you wear is. this would provide a benefit to the casual gamer who can't get the points or compete on the same level as the heavy hitters, but also dies more often to them. they'd have less lengthy statloss, but the heavy hitter would have a bit more - they die less often..
i also agree people can die way too fast in pvp. its kinda dumb.
by the same token its also too damn easy for them to just run if they are on an insane computer/connection. there are certain people who can literally move twice as fast as me and it boggles the mind how they can do it. one person who was chasing me actually stopped to cast revenant, CAUGHT UP with me (i could see them re-gain from being offscreened), and sicked the revenant on me. umm, yeah.
i think 10 min as the default is about right. but the timer could go up or down depending on a couple things.
you could have a less lengthy statloss if you get ressed by someone with a special skill or certain level in a virtue.
you could have a more lengthy statloss based on how uber the faction gear you wear is. this would provide a benefit to the casual gamer who can't get the points or compete on the same level as the heavy hitters, but also dies more often to them. they'd have less lengthy statloss, but the heavy hitter would have a bit more - they die less often..
i also agree people can die way too fast in pvp. its kinda dumb.
by the same token its also too damn easy for them to just run if they are on an insane computer/connection. there are certain people who can literally move twice as fast as me and it boggles the mind how they can do it. one person who was chasing me actually stopped to cast revenant, CAUGHT UP with me (i could see them re-gain from being offscreened), and sicked the revenant on me. umm, yeah.
All i can say is i will only play faction if the statloss is deleted!
There is no other way for me! I want to play and not to wait minutes i can play again, UO PvP remember Chaos and Order System was good and many people more than now Factions used it.
The Statloss has many problems, one and that is for me the most important is the playstyle, you get only ganked or you have runaways, so thats no good fight!
Loosing points when you get resskilled is an option, then anyone cares when to ress and when not. Also maybe a half reduce of the points you get after the ressurection can be an option too. Also a calculation of the death / kill ratio and your rank. So the fight is not useless but also not broken because of a wait period.
Another thing i want to say is dont expect too much from factions, factions and PvP doesnt play such a role anymore in the UO todays playberbase and only because of a few players want a new system, i would make other things instead of factions, no at your position i would delete the whole system!
But when you want to intigrate it again, you have to bring more better pros in, for example a new crafting system of bless deeds, the system was cool the worst thing was that you can only craft a blessed weapon and not rebless it. Also the amount of blessed items was calculated correctly a rank 1 player could only wear one blessed item, that was correct!
And now this is completly useless...
There is no other way for me! I want to play and not to wait minutes i can play again, UO PvP remember Chaos and Order System was good and many people more than now Factions used it.
The Statloss has many problems, one and that is for me the most important is the playstyle, you get only ganked or you have runaways, so thats no good fight!
Loosing points when you get resskilled is an option, then anyone cares when to ress and when not. Also maybe a half reduce of the points you get after the ressurection can be an option too. Also a calculation of the death / kill ratio and your rank. So the fight is not useless but also not broken because of a wait period.
Another thing i want to say is dont expect too much from factions, factions and PvP doesnt play such a role anymore in the UO todays playberbase and only because of a few players want a new system, i would make other things instead of factions, no at your position i would delete the whole system!
But when you want to intigrate it again, you have to bring more better pros in, for example a new crafting system of bless deeds, the system was cool the worst thing was that you can only craft a blessed weapon and not rebless it. Also the amount of blessed items was calculated correctly a rank 1 player could only wear one blessed item, that was correct!
And now this is completly useless...
M
Mazey788
Guest
how about making stat loss dependant on your faction rank, the lower in rank you are the shorter the statloss lasts. that way new players to faction pvp can get back into the fight and learn how to pvp. the better they get and higher in rank the longer the statloss lasts.
Oh, is this the thread where we are just listing all the worst ideas?
Epic first post.
C
Cloak&Dagger
Guest
O.K. looking for opinions for an entirely new look on statloss.
How about if we change the functions of statloss completely, such as making it affect faction more than actual pvp, it may not work how I am thinking it should, but then that is why I am asking for opinions.
For starters remove the skill loss portion, obviously will not be able to be called "statloss" but names are not as important anyhow. So instead of skill loss, we change it to affect aspects of factions such as during statloss you can not steal of hold a sigil, also during stat you would be unable to gain or give "points" no matter what system we are using, under the current system you would not be able to get points when you kill or gain points from killing, and more or less same applies to the new proposed point system. Perhaps the prevention from entering Faction bases, or being ressed in faction controlled towns controlled by opposing factions.
I had more ideas when I thought this idea up last night at work, but can not seem to think of it currently, if I can remember it I will post more later but for now you can get the basic idea.
How about if we change the functions of statloss completely, such as making it affect faction more than actual pvp, it may not work how I am thinking it should, but then that is why I am asking for opinions.
For starters remove the skill loss portion, obviously will not be able to be called "statloss" but names are not as important anyhow. So instead of skill loss, we change it to affect aspects of factions such as during statloss you can not steal of hold a sigil, also during stat you would be unable to gain or give "points" no matter what system we are using, under the current system you would not be able to get points when you kill or gain points from killing, and more or less same applies to the new proposed point system. Perhaps the prevention from entering Faction bases, or being ressed in faction controlled towns controlled by opposing factions.
I had more ideas when I thought this idea up last night at work, but can not seem to think of it currently, if I can remember it I will post more later but for now you can get the basic idea.
L
Locryn Finck
Guest
Yes.Cloak‡1715449 said:
This post was on another forum, and i wanted to bring it here because i liked the idea.
I did read up to a point of this post. We all see Reds jumping in on factions fights when they are not factions. This is fel, its going to happen. Get used to it. The only problem i honestly see with this, is when its 5 Non factioners and 1 factioner. And its then a team effort of the 6 to give the factioner the kill. Thus the 20 min stat. I feel that if the Stat timer were linked to the % of damge done by; A. a single factioner. B. a group of factioners. C. non factioners. Basicly what im saying is that if u get mowed over in a gank of 5 v 1, ur stat timer should be much less, or even removed. Base it off the % of damage done by factioners. And split it up if there is more than one person or pet/person doing the damge. This would make an honest 1 v 1 much more enjoyable, and worth the fight.
Basically, stat loss would be linked to the number of people doing a percentage of damage to you, and also scaled by the number of factioners
I did read up to a point of this post. We all see Reds jumping in on factions fights when they are not factions. This is fel, its going to happen. Get used to it. The only problem i honestly see with this, is when its 5 Non factioners and 1 factioner. And its then a team effort of the 6 to give the factioner the kill. Thus the 20 min stat. I feel that if the Stat timer were linked to the % of damge done by; A. a single factioner. B. a group of factioners. C. non factioners. Basicly what im saying is that if u get mowed over in a gank of 5 v 1, ur stat timer should be much less, or even removed. Base it off the % of damage done by factioners. And split it up if there is more than one person or pet/person doing the damge. This would make an honest 1 v 1 much more enjoyable, and worth the fight.
Basically, stat loss would be linked to the number of people doing a percentage of damage to you, and also scaled by the number of factioners
C
Cloak&Dagger
Guest
I have seen that before, and also have had similar ideas, like you should not be put in stat if you only get "killed" by a factioneer due to having almost no life and them pop-shoting you. What you posted could be a very viable option, but then it also would have to account for how many faction players are on your side as well, which could simply lead to the "reds" being in the same faction as you and thus you end up with a longer timer, unless they start doing something drastic so people in the same faction do not fight each other.
D
DOTCOM
Guest
IT'S SIMPLE, Stat loss should be effected by the amount of score points your opponent has on them vs your score points. The higher your score points are the longer you would put someone in stat. 20 minutes tops,5 min minimum even with no score points.This might encvourage people to keep there points rather than trade them off to another character and saving them for a later date. Also introduce a visible timer.