Returning tamer Q

[Garm The Green]

Heya peeps )

Have been away a few years and I'm having a crack with my sammy and my tamer again.

I've heard a lot of chatter about both classes being able to solo peerless... for a sammy using necro (no change there then) but for a tamer using greater drags? Whilst it's nice to see Drags being given some love, has this made all the other "uber pets" of the past redundant?

We used to hunt using rune and hiryu combos for armour corrupt, poison etc etc; we used to use mares and WW for magical heaven - when i was leaving, it was all about blaze Cu's. Now it seems, everything is dwarfed by the G. Dragon.

Luckily i managed to lead tame one on my own at the fire temple (using no bard/para/honour) at only 115 skill. it's not amazing, but i don;t hve any mates left on drachenfells (aww) and kinda enjoyed the challenge.

Once it bonds on monday, will there be any point in using anything else, or is it by by hiryu, cu, WW etc etc etc?

Seems a shame, but i guess this isn't the first time....

 

[Farsight]

The short verson:
Solo fights:
Greater dragon can solo the Monstrous interred grizzle, dread horn and Travesty (Travesty needs spellweaving and magery as well or you risk getting swamped by side-spawn).
With a hiryu you can solo the MIG (some say it's easier with hiryu then GD).
A cu sidhe can solo the Rikktor champ spawn, but it isn't easy. (mage-tamer with dragon slayer spellbook helps).
A rune beetle is the perfect second pet for any occasion. (tamer 1 with whatever, tamer 2 with rune beetle combination)
A pack of frenzied ostards out damage everything else.
Boura are good for a starting tamer and are about as effective as a cu sidhe (highland/lowland combination)
Bake kitsune tear up nearly all of the stygian abyss mini spawns, especially the spawns with fire demons and fire ants.
Dread war horse is still a favorite for PvP (but no longer spawn).

Honestly, while my greater dragons (I have two) are very effective, I still prefer other pets for most situations. I typically reserve my greater dragon for keying paroxysmus or running around in Bedlam... or when I'm just feeling lazy and want an easier hunt.

 

[Llewen]

Honestly, while my greater dragons (I have two) are very effective, I still prefer other pets for most situations. I typically reserve my greater dragon for keying paroxysmus or running around in Bedlam... or when I'm just feeling lazy and want an easier hunt.

This exactly. The greater dragon is a very useful all round pet, and it is the pet I take when I don't know what I'm going to be facing because it will have the best chance of surviving in difficult situations. However, in most contexts I prefer some other pet combination.

 

[Garm The Green]

This exactly. The greater dragon is a very useful all round pet, and it is the pet I take when I don't know what I'm going to be facing because it will have the best chance of surviving in difficult situations. However, in most contexts I prefer some other pet combination.

Do other pet combos still outdamage the GD when fighting the big guys ike peerless etc, or merely facilitate others?

Would you still rock a hiryu or dog for a doom camper?

 

[Farsight]

The beetle/bake is proven to out-damage the greater dragon in many situations.

I'm less than convinced about the combo against Melisande or Navery Nighteyes, but the combo still makes those fights a lot shorter.

I haven't taken a pet to Doom in years (pre dragon days), but I would likely take the dragon. It's easier to keep alive in tough situations.

 

[Llewen]

Do other pet combos still outdamage the GD when fighting the big guys ike peerless etc, or merely facilitate others?

Would you still rock a hiryu or dog for a doom camper?

The beetle/bake is proven to out-damage the greater dragon in many situations.

The beetle/bake or beetle/mare combination has a higher dps than a greater dragon hands down in my opinion, and that is without taking into consideration the beetles armour corruption special. Once you add that in there is just no contest. The only problem is keeping the pets alive.

You need to match your pet to the context if you are going to optimize your effectiveness as a tamer. Hiryu's and cu sidhe are most effective now in pvp in my opinion, with a dexxer armed with a bokuto or the ninja skill. Cu sidhe are also effective in farming succubus for fame and honour, or for farming dragons.

If already you have a greater dragon as a tank, against an opponent that doesn't switch targets, a beetle combo is always a good choice. The rune beetle has an incredible damage output and the armour corruption makes everyone doing damage to the target more effective.

Farsight is right about Doom though, in my opinion probably the greater dragon is the best choice there simply because other pets are so hard to keep alive. However, if you happen to have a peace tamer, a rune combo may well be the best choice there as well.

What you really need to do is get to know your opponents' strengths and weaknesses and match your weapons (pets) to the opponent and the context, and most importantly to your playstyle. What is best for you personally will depend on the context and how you play the game.

 

[Garm The Green]

The beetle/bake is proven to out-damage the greater dragon in many situations.

I'm less than convinced about the combo against Melisande or Navery Nighteyes, but the combo still makes those fights a lot shorter.

I haven't taken a pet to Doom in years (pre dragon days), but I would likely take the dragon. It's easier to keep alive in tough situations.

Is this even true compared to the self healing cu?

Do you think this is due to the GDs better wrestle, resist and Max HP (meaning vet does more) making it more effective than a beastie that can heal itself?

I understand different tames do different damage types (eg cold/energy) but just wanted to check that GDs weren't so powerful as to make those differences irrelevant. Reasurring to hear my beetle still has it's place - it's probably my fave just due to it being mental powerful!

you think a cu beats a beetle/mare (with petballs) in PVP?

 

[Llewen]

Is this even true compared to the self healing cu?

Do you think this is due to the GDs better wrestle, resist and Max HP (meaning vet does more) making it more effective than a beastie that can heal itself?

The resists and hit points on a greater dragon are insane. They are just so much easier to keep alive in a context like Doom as a result.

I understand different tames do different damage types (eg cold/energy) but just wanted to check that GDs weren't so powerful as to make those differences irrelevant. Reasurring to hear my beetle still has it's place - it's probably my fave just due to it being mental powerful!

The dps ("damage per second") of a dragon is decent, but doesn't match the dps of a rune combo, especially when you take into account the rune's armour corruption. And this was true even before the damage of the greater dragon was capped in a way that I have yet to comprehend.

you think a cu beats a beetle/mare (with petballs) in PVP?

It depends on your template. If you have a dexxer template with a bokuto, or ninja, the cu sidhe or hiryu is probably your best choice, but for a mage tamer in my opinion, nothing beats the beetle/mare combo, and nothing beats the dps of the beetle/mare combo.

See there are two kinds of tamers, one fairly common and successful, one fairly rare and generally less successful. The more common type of tamer you see in pvp is the tamer hybrid, where the taming is secondary to the main template choice.

Dexxer tamers are an example of this. The template is primarily a dexxer template, with the taming there to provide a durable mount, and supplemental damage. Often the pet will get the kill shot with these templates, but it is all set up by the dexxer half of the template. These templates tend to be very successful when used skillfully.

The less common template in pvp is where the character is primarily a tamer, generally with magery as a secondary template choice. With this template the pets are the primary damage dealer, and the secondary template choice is there to support the pets and/or provide supplemental damage.

This second template type in pvp is generally used by less experienced pvp'rs and there are extremely few experienced and successful pvp'rs who run with this kind of tamer template. Having said that, it can also be very successful if the tamer knows what they are doing, but it is a challenging template to play.

The second template type, the template where the tamer is the primary template choice, takes more preparation to be successful than the first template type, where the tamer is the secondary template choice. You have to have excellent pets, and they need to be fully trained. I'm not saying that the second tamer template type takes more skill, they both require skill to be successful, but the second does, in my opinion, take more preparation.

There is also a very strong prejudice in pvp circles against the second tamer template type, and if you were to choose that path that is something you would have to contend with. It will show itself in the type of trash talk you attract and in the fact that you will likely always be the first called target in any faction battle. So if you play that kind of template, especially in factions, you had better know how to survive a gank because it is going to happen all the time.