More Fel based events?

[A Rev]

Is there a possibility of more fel based Events?

Im not on about PvP tourneys, im on about events much like the hercules plot we have atm based in fel.

Could be interesting, it would let people see the real side of fel.

That being, i can see a few groups would specifically attempt to kill all "trammies" but i also can see the "trammies" and maybe a fel guild or 2 actually attempting to hold of the hoards.

Maybe, even set it up to be specifically that. A group needs to hold and kill something and the other group is charged to take it and keep the mob alive.

Think it could be an interesting proposition.

Ive attended a fair few events like this on Cats and they work well.

Your thoughts?

 

[EM Malachi]

There are more Felucca events planned in the future. Since I'm not sure on scheduling and such, I don't have more details right now.

I am going to explain my view of Felucca events as an Event Moderator. The usual disclaimer about my opinions not representing Mythic’s policies and practices applies. I will admit to having mixed feelings about Felucca events. There are a lot of pros and cons to running such events:

Pros -

-More options with respect to evil roleplay since player combat is a possibility that adds interactivity and player-affected outcomes.

-More options for the EM.

-Places with historical and plot importance.

-Some really interesting dynamics are possible from things such as factions.


Cons -

-The events take longer to run due to disruptions.

-A great number of players feel intimidated or dislike Felucca events.

-There is certainly a point of view that seems prevalent in Felucca that boils down to “Since non-consensual combat is mechanically possible, any behavior is acceptable.”

-Not every Trammel event can be easily used in Felucca.


I do think we should do more events in Felucca, but I do think that Trammel events will probably remain the majority. I do think we are open to discussions on the exact ratio of Felucca and Trammel events. We would like to hear your feedback here on a few things:

1. What sort of events do you want to see in Felucca?

2. How frequent should Felucca events be relative to Trammel events?

3. For events that normally take place in Trammel (Royal Guard and Spy Missions), would you attend if the events sometimes moved into Felucca when necessary (to maybe give evil a chance to win)?

 

[Stupid Miner]

Hm, whenever I've participated in Felucca events, it tends to be 1 or 2 reds actually participating, then everyone else just ganking/griefing the Trammies.

 

[EM Elizabella]

i also can see the "trammies" and maybe a fel guild or 2 actually attempting to hold of the hoards.

There are two problem with that: 1) that's not their playstyle, and 2) a character built for PvM is going to be different, in skills, stats, equipment, etc. from a character built for PvP.

There will be at least one Hercules event in Felucca. Its plot makes use of the Fel ruleset. There will also be a summer tournament. Other than that, I don't know. I want to use my time wisely and entertain as many players as possible.

I feel a responsibility to the people who come to my events. If they're in Felucca because I've invited them to an event and they get slaughtered by a group that isn't interested in the plot, then the event will have been ruined in a way I could have prevented by having it elsewhere.

Fairness is equal opportunity, not equal outcome. I want to give GL Felucca players the opportunity to make EM events work in their facet.

 

[ATLPvPer]

There are two problem with that: 1) that's not their playstyle, and 2) a character built for PvM is going to be different, in skills, stats, equipment, etc. from a character built for PvP.

There will be at least one Hercules event in Felucca. Its plot makes use of the Fel ruleset. There will also be a summer tournament. Other than that, I don't know. I want to use my time wisely and entertain as many players as possible.

I feel a responsibility to the people who come to my events. If they're in Felucca because I've invited them to an event and they get slaughtered by a group that isn't interested in the plot, then the event will have been ruined in a way I could have prevented by having it elsewhere.

Fairness is equal opportunity, not equal outcome. I want to give GL Felucca players the opportunity to make EM events work in their facet.

You, and Malachi to a lesser extent, are looking at this situation in the incorrect manner.
Fel events are not tram events - they are not meant to run like tram events. I have talked to EMs who say they do not like to hold Fel events because no one does the event - they just PvP.

Of course! That is the main purpose of events in Fel. No, not to "lure trammel players to Fel," I am not concerned whether they arrive or not. I cannot come to Tram and exercise my favorite playstyle. I enjoy PvP. The purpose of events in Fel is to promote PvP not with "PKers vs Trammies" but groups of PvPers and those who dabble in PvP, fighting against one another, for dominion over said champion, area, item, storyline, or what ever. A reason to gather together and get a massive fight going.

If you expect Fel events to be a bunch of reds gathering together and fighting some PvM monster, then that is why the EMs perception of Fel events are so flawed, and it seems that is why you all do not do them. We are not there to JUST run out your event - we are there to have fun amongst one another and fight eachother to achieve a goal everyone is striving for. I wish you could relay this to the other EMs. I'd like your thoughts on this also.

It isn't always about plot. It is about the thrill of fighting three hours over territory and monsters. Let us run a back-story to your main arch. You shouldn't have to "feel bad" about not including "those with a different playstyle" from one event a month, this shows a lot of bias against the Feluccians on your shard. You SHOULD feel bad about excluding the PvPers playstyle from so many of your events as you do right now, but you don't, and rather are worried about excluding others when they are all you currently cater to.

 

[PASmountaindew]

It is about the thrill of fighting three hours over territory and monsters.

That sounds exactly like a champ spawn except the PvPers don't spend three hours let alone 10 minutes fighting the spawn. They let others work the spawn up and then come and steal it from those that did the hard work. Most... not all PvPers make Felluca a very ugly place to play because of scripts and speedhacking. Also most of the people that play in Trammel either never really learned how to PvP or purposefully choose to not PvP simply because they do not find enjoyment over killing another players character. I bet that once EA gets the speedhack and third party programs stopped that a lot of the current PvPers will switch to PvM because they will no longer have the advantage. Maybe then these Felluca based EM events will become a bit more popular. This is just my observation and opinion but it is something I am entitled to.

 

[ATLPvPer]

That sounds exactly like a champ spawn except the PvPers don't spend three hours let alone 10 minutes fighting the spawn. They let others work the spawn up and then come and steal it from those that did the hard work. Most... not all PvPers make Felluca a very ugly place to play because of scripts and speedhacking. Also most of the people that play in Trammel either never really learned how to PvP or purposefully choose to not PvP simply because they do not find enjoyment over killing another players character. I bet that once EA gets the speedhack and third party programs stopped that a lot of the current PvPers will switch to PvM because they will no longer have the advantage. Maybe then these Fel based EM events will become a bit more popular. This is just my observation and opinion but it is something I am entitled to.

I'm not going to turn this EM thread into an argument, but it is obvious you do not spend any extended time in Felucca (especially considering you cannot spell it correctly...)

PvPers start spawns for fights. PvPers will let the champ sit there, alive, waiting for fights.
Of course people raid spawns, I guess that is why you are so biased against PvP, your spawn was raided. Maybe you should practice and get better, so your group can protect a spawn.
I agree there is cheating in Fel, and it hasn't ben addressed by EA for far too long. There is also rampant cheating and scripting in Tram. Why do you think the economy is so horrible? Maybe when they fix all the scripting, more people will come to tram. *rolls eyes*
The fact that you think the majority of PvPers cheat, or will EVER switch to PvM just makes your argument even more rediculous.
I PvP because I enjoy a challenge against a thinking, intelligent human. I enjoy deploying strategy to win a spawn or an event.
I don't like playing 'point-click the monster.' ' say all kill. '
I find it quite unfortunate that people like you get so upset and are so against PvP events. I never complain about PvM events. Perhaps if you tried to get better at PvP instead of yelling 'hacks', you wouldn't be trying to prevent PvP events which you already said you are not interested in.

 

[Martyna Zmuir]

That sounds exactly like a champ spawn except the PvPers don't spend three hours let alone 10 minutes fighting the spawn. They let others work the spawn up and then come and steal it from those that did the hard work. Most... not all PvPers make Felluca a very ugly place to play because of scripts and speedhacking. Also most of the people that play in Trammel either never really learned how to PvP or purposefully choose to not PvP simply because they do not find enjoyment over killing another players character. I bet that once EA gets the speedhack and third party programs stopped that a lot of the current PvPers will switch to PvM because they will no longer have the advantage. Maybe then these Fel based EM events will become a bit more popular. This is just my observation and opinion but it is something I am entitled to.

I'm not going to turn this EM thread into an argument, but it is obvious you do not spend any extended time in Felucca (especially considering you cannot spell it correctly...)

PvPers start spawns for fights. PvPers will let the champ sit there, alive, waiting for fights.
Of course people raid spawns, I guess that is why you are so biased against PvP, your spawn was raided. Maybe you should practice and get better, so your group can protect a spawn.
I agree there is cheating in Fel, and it hasn't ben addressed by EA for far too long. There is also rampant cheating and scripting in Tram. Why do you think the economy is so horrible? Maybe when they fix all the scripting, more people will come to tram. *rolls eyes*
The fact that you think the majority of PvPers cheat, or will EVER switch to PvM just makes your argument even more rediculous.
I PvP because I enjoy a challenge against a thinking, intelligent human. I enjoy deploying strategy to win a spawn or an event.
I don't like playing 'point-click the monster.' ' say all kill. '
I find it quite unfortunate that people like you get so upset and are so against PvP events. I never complain about PvM events. Perhaps if you tried to get better at PvP instead of yelling 'hacks', you wouldn't be trying to prevent PvP events which you already said you are not interested in.

It is this attitude, from both sides, that will cause long-running plot-based events in Fel to tank.

The players who enjoy Trammel don't want to go to Fel for an event because they feel they will be forced into PvP. Elizabella is right when she states that their gear and template are not designed for PvP, nor do most have the knowledge required to effectively PvP.

The Fel player's desire for an intelligent opponent is a reasonable argument. However, when forced on unwilling participants (i.e. Trammies) things get ugly. This is also where the argument breaks down... Do you want an intelligent opponent for the thrill of a challenging battle? Or do you want an intelligent opponent so your ego inflates when you hear their death cry KNOWING there is another human cursing your name? The Feluccans who attack events full of non-PvP Trammies fall into the second category - fighting an opponent who is severely outmatched isn't thrilling, its pure ego.

During the days of the Seers, pre-Trammel, events would be raided frequently. Back then, it was more of a minor disruption as nearly everyone was geared the same and knew they had to be constantly prepared for battle. This is not the case now, and is not likely to change any time soon.

'Evil' doesn't mean PvP either. Never understood why people connect these two so often. Evil can be effective without a license to kill, they just need to be creative. In GL's RP community we have three 'evil guilds' - The Temple of Mondain, United Hunter's Union, and The Brigands. Each are warred to the Britannian Armed Forces alliance (which consists of ALL the 'good guilds'). PvP happens on a near nightly basis within a set of rules that allow RP plotlines to advance and grow, but the fights aren't what makes the bad guys 'evil.'

Personally, aside from chaotic PvP, I don't foresee a shift from an EM RP plotline in Trammel (with willing participants) moving to Felucca and expecting similar plot advancement to result in anything but disaster. (And yes, I realize that the 'disaster' will be mainly in the Trammies' eyes.)


By all means have events in Fel, just don't expect things like plot, pacing, or character development to be paid attention to. Nor should you expect many of the Trammel players to participate. A straight line, unchangeable plot like Clainin's assassination would work, however.

 

[MalagAste]

I've found that often Fel based events end in frustration... mostly because of mass chaos.

It's not that PvP is bad or that it's Horrible or anything....

The rampant cheats can be extremely frustrating.

But yes I realize there is cheating and scripting in Tram as well... not that I agree with that either.

However from what I have attended in Fel... often the complete and utter chaos as well as the foul language use... the way it would seem that far more people in Fel are bound and determined to make sure events and things DO NOT happen.... rather than having a larger group helping to "protect" rather than destroy... makes doing things in Fel nearly impossible.

And add to that the fact that if you aren't in Factions wearing Faction arties that add incredible bonus's that you just can't get with a regular suit no matter how you craft it.... most "Trammies" can't compete regardless of how good they are at PvP.

It's not that I don't like Fel... it's just that more often than not I've seen that Fel based events often end in disaster.

Which I guess if you look at it from my point of view.... if more folk tried to work to make Fel based Events a success then more folk would be willing to come to Fel..... and more folk would be willing to give Fel a try.... but since each time most folk experience Fel it usually ends up leaving a bad taste in the mouth..... that only reinforces the idea that Fel = bad.... and then you have what we have now.... where most "Trammies" wouldn't really care if Fel ceased to exist... Which would be a sad day.

Fel has it's place.... but forcing folk to go there to participate in things is never the answer. Trying to find ways to level the playing field might help more. Or at least ways to keep the chaos in check.

 

[A Rev]

Well i cant speak for all fel events as ive only been to a few.

One was specifically designed for PvP, it was a boat war.

One was a PvM event in fel, during this event i was part of a raiding group.

We took control of the area and attempted to kill the spawn, as previously mentioned...our chars where not set up for this! The Mobs where ridiculously hard and had we not been so...ummm...quick in our decision to kill everyone we may have been able to finish.

As it stood we had no chance! So, in the end, after maybe a good hour of fighting we lost. The "trammies" prevailed through sheer persistance and our inability to effectively complete the spawn

I dont expect, or want these events in place of the trammel ones. I enjoy the trammel based events. It would be nice to see a few in fel...a bit like the SL main story arc, kill clanin.

The tourneys i think are fun...but thats not what im after. Another tourney cant be bad but would like to see some of the story arc in fel.

Some of us pvpers do actually participate in the events and have a rough understanding of plot and get enjoyment from it.

 

[Lady Michelle]

Instead of pulling a story line that is being done in trammel into fel. Set up events for fel players that are suited for them like have them battle on boats in groups of 5 or so last boat of players still standing wins. Have something like a pot throwing battle rules would be you can only use pots, and nothing else no armor no regs no aids no spells no weapons, etc. last one standing wins.

 

[Cetric]

The pvper will never truely be understood by anyone in a powerful situation it seems.



btw, ATL, completely agree with most/all of what you are saying.




And for those of you that like the tram based, fight the monster, get the prize events that are setup for new and exciting features. Just remember, there are people on the other side of the fence that long for something new and exciting, except we enjoy fighting each other, with strategy. Creatures that are intelligent (some not ) that know when its time to heal, run, go on offense, defense, heal your guild mate, dump on a called target, etc etc etc etc. Remember playing capture the flag when you were little? That is sometimes how we like playing this game, we fight for that flag, come up with strategy to take it, we dont just run up with lots of ppl to a thing holding the flag and dump lots of pvmers on it and scream YAY!. Maybe it is a different mentality, but i can definitely see it is a different perception.

I personally don't feel like attacking mindless mobs in a pvm setup, much like many of you don't wanted to be forced to pvp. I generally do not attend these events for that reason, as many of you would not attend a fel based one for yours. Why should the players that enjoy these trammel based events be catered to more?

I understand it may be harder to setup a fel event to you, but maybe it really isn't. Like ATL said, it seems you want to take a trammel styled event, and toss it in fel and accept the consequences. That isn't the way it should work. The fel event should involve thieving, fighting towards something. Many of you will call this griefing, but you only see it as griefing because it is not your playstyle. Sure a guild will wait until a champ is up, after the spawn is worked, to raid. They raid because they want to fight, even if its a solo person who just did a rat spawn, it is to show that person----you come here, you come to fight--be prepared next time, bring friends to protect you, etc etc. Not to grief you into "working so hard and its all gone" And on the other side, honestly, ive waited until the champ is up to raid just so we don't have to fight in a bunch of 1st/2nd/3rd level spawn, getting stam blocked and lit up in spawn while trying to kill the enemy.




Maybe for an idea for an event for you EM's, create the royal guard army, they have to be blue and virtuous, set fourth into felucca on a planned date/time to eradicate murderers that have been pillaging the lands. Sure most of the ppl in fel may be more experienced in pvp, strategy against a larger opponent, etc. But in my opinion it would be extremely fun, but here we go again (they do not want to be forced into pvp, or fighting players, rather mindless mobs with tons of hit points) Hell send a giant blue army into a certain area, they dont have to be players, just npcs--sort of like faction guards---- and then virtuous ppl from tram if they so choose may take up arms with that army and fight the reds of fel in a certain area... i don't know...i'm just throwing stuff into the deck.


why the tram based players feel they are "Forced" into going to fel events is beyond me, i don't feel "forced" into going to tram events from fel...why do you feel you HAVE to come here? You can come here if you wish, but you must understand, most of us have a different play style here, we are not killing you to **** you off, we are fighting you because that is what is fun to us--combat---intelligent being vs. intelligent being-----strategy---------i can go on but i'm hoping ive made my point by now.

 

[Lynk]

I would totally jump on some trammies on my assassin. HOOKICHAAAAA!!!!

 

[Martyna Zmuir]

...
Sure a guild will wait until a champ is up, after the spawn is worked, to raid. They raid because they want to fight, even if its a solo person who just did a rat spawn, it is to show that person----you come here, you come to fight--be prepared next time, bring friends to protect you, etc etc. Not to grief you into "working so hard and its all gone" And on the other side, honestly, ive waited until the champ is up to raid just so we don't have to fight in a bunch of 1st/2nd/3rd level spawn, getting stam blocked and lit up in spawn while trying to kill the enemy.

And you don't call that griefing? Seriously?

The majority of guilds that do this don't do it for the 'fight' with the ones working the spawn, they do it to control the 120 PS market. Your admission about waiting till the champ is up to raid kills your entire argument there.

When your 'playstyle' is designed to ruin someone else's experience that is griefing. Bemoan the mechanics of Fel all you want, its still griefing.

If fighting is all you want, you surely don't need an EM to give you permission, just go to the Yew gate.

 

[PASmountaindew]

Hell send a giant blue army into a certain area, they dont have to be players, just npcs--sort of like faction guards

See so you don't really want intelligent real people behind the pixels in order to kill them and have fun. Right there you basically said that NPCs are good enough.If the PvPers truly want more people to come to felluca to fight then they really need to stop the third party program/speedhacking use and stop the zerging and the griefing. Then more people might actually enjoy going to felluca which would make the PvPers happy because there will be more targets. And say all you want about how I spell things. whether or not I spell the word correctly or not does not mean I don't go to felluca. I started out in this game just before trammel and I venture to felluca all the time. You don't know me and I don't know you. So stop assuming because all that does is make an azz out of you and not me.

 

[Cetric]

See so you don't really want intelligent real people behind the pixels in order to kill them and have fun. Right there you basically said that NPCs are good enough.If the PvPers truly want more people to come to felluca to fight then they really need to stop the third party program/speedhacking use and stop the zerging and the griefing. Then more people might actually enjoy going to felluca which would make the PvPers happy because there will be more targets. And say all you want about how I spell things. whether or not I spell the word correctly or not does not mean I don't go to felluca. I started out in this game just before trammel and I venture to felluca all the time. You don't know me and I don't know you. So stop assuming because all that does is make an azz out of you and not me.

I said the blue faction guard army so any blues who joined in would have help from the npc's, this in turn would help them even the playing field. They don't have much experience, then fine, give them a boost. Make the pvpers contend with npc mobs casting/attacking them while they fight the inexperienced blues, if it was a blue army with no help form blue players, then heck, that would be as boring to me as taking down a creature with 50k hit points that barely touches me or my guildmates

. i agree ppl need to stop cheating, but thats in every facet of this game... do you really not think ppl cheat in trammel in every way imaginable? heck ive seen sampires run faster than some of the ppl in fel...they can cover more ground and kill more mobs than me...oh no im scared of farming in tram now.. anymore i just go with the flow, if someone speed hacks away from me..ehh win for me they ran away. if they died...man im happy, it was much more of a challenge, but i am still jsut as annoyed as anyone that it has gone on as long as it has. Are you not as irritated doing a navrey spawn trying to get yoruself a tangle, and there is a tamer with a script that just throws his dragon on the spider when it spawns, heals it, heals himself, and sits there when it dies..waiting for the next... All the while his other account is filling bods for pof, and his third acct he is doing medusa... please, id be more irritated with that if i played primarily in that setting, vs me dealing with a speed hacker in a pvp environment.




also not knowing you and you not knowing me, i could care less, i didn't point a finger at anybody....this is what i mean, so many ppl take it upon themselves to feel they are being targeted..newsflash it isn't about you..i could care less what other ppl do. Also, i never said you spelled anything wrong, it was ATL, and if you aren't referencing me in that, then don't quote me when you respond to him.

 

[Cetric]

And you don't call that griefing? Seriously?

The majority of guilds that do this don't do it for the 'fight' with the ones working the spawn, they do it to control the 120 PS market. Your admission about waiting till the champ is up to raid kills your entire argument there.

When your 'playstyle' is designed to ruin someone else's experience that is griefing. Bemoan the mechanics of Fel all you want, its still griefing.

If fighting is all you want, you surely don't need an EM to give you permission, just go to the Yew gate.

Right, i don't see it as griefing. Most of us don't. And honestly most ppl don't care about this ps market that you all complain about, we will take a spawn and get 6 scrolls, maybe 12 if we have blues... sure thats great, but we aren't trying to control some market. there may be a guild out there that does, but on gl... haven't seen that taken place in years, most scrolls don't even get rolled on anymore unless its a big one like a magery, make a quick buck, cool. Otherwise if its a tactics and i dont have a char that eneds it, maybe someone else does and i dont roll on it.

I'm not going to argue this point anymore, anyone who has this plays tyle knows what i'm tlaking about, and the people that don't udnerstand it are the ones who are the most outspoken and upset. These are the same people who want 120s in trammel....you know why most of us don't want them to leave fel? Because scrolls/harrowers are one of the few things we have elft to fight over. If there is a big idoc..we fight for control of it. If the devs gave us soemthing else ot fight over in this game, or the ems gave us an event to fight for...we'd do that too...it isn't to grief the ppl who come to fel, and then cry that they died.

i am trying to be as unbiased as i possibly can, considering i spend most of my time pvping, but some of these guys that go nuts saying they are being griefed jsut about test my patience. I can explain our mindset/playstyle until im blue in the face, but because you guys don't understand it, and feel it interferes with your playstyle, you just go ape****. This is why the devs put tram in, for ppl who didnt want to pvp for things, and look where that has gotten us? People speak of community? Fel is about the only place left with a sense of community outside an rp guild.

if you do not want to pvp, do not come here. I do not want to pvm, so i do not farm navrey, medusa, dreadhorn. If i want a tangle i buy it, if i want a crimmy i buy it, if i want resources for imbueing i buy them. If you do not want to pvp for power scrolls, then buy them, thats how i feel about it. And even then, for years, some pvp guilds like BC used to have free spawn fridays, they would not raid tram guilds doing spawns and would protect them from other guilds. Ask someone if they would be willing to step to the plate for you... 9 tiems out of 10 it would bring another guild to come try to take your spawn, and the guild you asked for some protection, they would be happy to fight them for you.


Powerscrolls are about the only thing left in this game that has risk/reward. you can sit there alld ay trying to get a tangle off of the spider...did you risk anything to do it? Nope, but if you popped the ice east champ spawn and did it with your guild, and didn't get raided you risked dieing, but you got your scrolls. If you got raided, you risked dieing, and you did.

Heck i can grief ppl more in tram than i ever could in fel... what if youw ere farming the cavern of the discarded for seeds of renewal cause you wanted to imbue yourself a nice mana regen suit, and everytime you killed all the 1st level stuff me and my friends just flew in, wiped out the spawn, and drug the renowned away? Heck you couldnt even try to kill us for doing it, what can you do? cuss me out? ...in fel you could defend what you wanted, and succeed if you just tried. kill us all and keep on keeping on. There a pvm guilds on gl with enough numbers to come to fel, and just destroy some of the small bands of reds that fel is today..there are no more 50 person guilds patrolling the region. Sure alot of you may die or even lose 50v15 in your favor, but it is unlikely if you just learned and tried.




Now to cover the rest of what you had to say.

Your admission about waiting till the champ is up to raid kills your entire argument there.

I told you why it is good tactic to raid a spawn when the champ is up. You can avoid fighting in the spawn, you can also avoid having to pvm, which none of us want to really do anyways.

If fighting is all you want, you surely don't need an EM to give you permission, just go to the Yew gate.

You gate is trash fighting, there is no strategy, none of that "capture the flag" style that i spoke of, that is where an EM event would come into play, something to fight for, a reason to get alot of people together and fight. Yew gate has no real straetgy, it is just the place ppl end up when there is nothing else going on.




Lastly one more thing about griefing. I know there are problably ppl out there that do just want to grief people, but all people who pvp in fel are lumped into this general group. Thatd be like me coming to tram and telling everyone they are all ******* and are afraid of ppl in fel. I know that is not true and is a general assumption because some people actually do feel that way, but not everyone who likes to play in tram, pvm, mine, rp a blacksmith, etc, is part of that small group. There are people im sure who would love to jump into fel and pvp, but jsut don't know how tog et their feet wet, they get frustrated too quickly and scream HACKS and the like right away. I ran around a guild house the other day on my new template, they had roughly 8-10 ppl from their guild there at different intervals, i run nothing, i do not cheat, yet because i was killing people in this group they started coming up with any hack they could throw out there... i was teleporting 2 screens away, iw as casting 3 flamestrikes at once... the fact of the matter was, i was just doing my best to stay alive and drop people when it presented itself, i had a good strategy and they didn't catch on. It was fun, but they were very upset, thinking they were lit up by some hacker. They just weren't sued to this playstyle, and left.... Much like hearing a noise in the dark and feeling fear. you don't know what it was or understand it, so you come up with everything in the book what it could have been.



/end rant lol

 

[Cetric]

I've found that often Fel based events end in frustration... mostly because of mass chaos.

Agreed. However, i believe the EMs can learn from these experiences. They end in mass chaos because they took an event that could of been run in tram flawlessly, and stuck it in fel where it was setup for failure.

Now i am only giving these guys some constructive criticism, the story arcs they do are fantastic. On that note, i believe they need to understand, and may ask for help to understand, what would be a successful event in fel. There are possibilities.

Competitions are fun and all, dueling tourneys, etc. But story arcs can take place in fel, and as one of the EMs mentioned, a story that involves evil, thievery, murder, etc, is perfect for fel. a really well planned out event that makes it fun for the common pvper would be great, and im not saying take away from tram events, heck at this point, a fel event every 4 tram events would suffice as it may take more time and planning, maybe even suggestions from ppl who primarily play in fel and know the "goings on" would help out for them.

 

[Cetric]

And add to that the fact that if you aren't in Factions wearing Faction arties that add incredible bonus's that you just can't get with a regular suit no matter how you craft it.... most "Trammies" can't compete regardless of how good they are at PvP.

Ehh, my suits are all fully imbued and amazing now, faction pieces would only add a slight few mods. There was a time i agreed with your statement entirely, but since imbuing, i couldn't disagree more. I can put together a better suit now than someone dependent on faction arties could ever dream of.

 

[Cetric]

Also, and just so everyone knows im not targetting you as a person, so lets get that out of the way, just using your posts as an example.

Malagaste i believe you mentioned this, might be wrong.

the cussing and "bad words" someone mentioned. i know exactly what you are talking aobut, and it makes alot of people sounds very immature, but something i think people don't realize is that it is brought out form competition. People get frusterated and start argueing like crazy with each other, the pvp world is a very competitive one, for bragging rights and other things. This is something, from my pov atleast, many of you don't see in tram. I could be wrong, and i'd love to hear someone elses pov, but i can't see anything in tram truely being at that level of competion. Do people try to outdo their friends in how many mobs they killed? maybe, but i can't get into it, and that is something many EM events are based on...fighting/pvming with a mob.




And With what you mentioned in regards to the chaos in fel Malagaste, i agree from someone elses point of view, it is chaos, that is why the two styles of events need to be setup different, tram events and fel ones. Like i mentioned with powerscrolls, i don't come to tram to do the pvm events, and if people so choose, they should not HAVE to come to fel in a pvp setting. like i said, maybe 4 tram events to 1 fel one. Who can complain then? the OP has a slight point, ppl in fel who would enjoy an EM event should be upset, if they do not like the playstyle.

 

[Lynk]

My sole purpose for taking the time to log in to this god awful game would be to grief and kill trammy blues from a stealth bushy ninja.

Not all of us are above the stereotypes like Cetric.

 

[Cetric]

My sole purpose for taking the time to log in to this god awful game would be to grief and kill trammy blues from a stealth bushy ninja.

Not all of us are above the stereotypes like Cetric.

SHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!! Don't you want more ppl to fight! Gaaahhh!

 

[GalenKnighthawke]

the cussing and "bad words" someone mentioned. i know exactly what you are talking aobut, and it makes alot of people sounds very immature, but something i think people don't realize is that it is brought out form competition. People get frusterated and start argueing like crazy with each other, the pvp world is a very competitive one, for bragging rights and other things. This is something, from my pov atleast, many of you don't see in tram

No, it's not.

In Trammel someone else doesn't have to lose for you to win.

And that's the clearest argument for why plot-based EM events don't really belong in Felucca. I mean I'd attend one, because Galen the character will go where the fight is, but it's not a good idea.

Thank you for articulating this point, even though I suspect you didn't mean to make the argument that you in fact made.

The competition, as most Fellies will freely admit most of the time, is not limited to PvP. It extends to message boards ("message board PvP" anyone?), to global chat (constantly), to the Trammel rules facets (I once witnessed a 3-day argument at the Luna Bank over PvP-related matters), and, I have observed, to obtaining items at EM events.

And the EM events aren't about competition among players. They are about plot. They are about the story for story's sake. About having something to do in-game that has some kind of officially sanctioned meaning. Most of what we do has meaning that we assign, whether it's RP or PvP. But sometimes there's content, whether it's meta-plot story arcs like Warriors of Destiny or the Minax Invasions from years back, or EM events, or Factions, or Quests, that has a meaning assigned by the manufacturer.

From every post on this thread, what's clear is that for most Felucca players, that just isn't something terribly interesting or worthwhile. Some Fel Players have even admitted that the reason they want EM Events in Felucca is to pick off Trammel players. That is clearly accurate in terms of your motives, thank you for admitting it.

-Galen's player

 

[EM Malachi]

While I'm not ending this discussioin, I will make a few quick points:

1. There will be both in-character and OOC Felucca events in the future.

2. The exact ratio and type of events there will be determined by what happens at events.

3. Plot-based events will likely contain parallel or off-shoot plot elements. To make sure everyone can keep up on the big storylines, most of these will take place in the Trammel ruleset. There will likely be some that are in Felucca based on decisions from above. I believe there are enough loose ends to have some be resolved in Felucca from time to time.

4. Royal Spy missions will likely remain Trammel-ruleset only.

 

[A Rev]

Thanks, its nice to hear

A few things i read while skimming the posts...raiding isnt exactly griefing. Well...not all the time. Sometimes it may just be a group of...or person you really dont like and then i suppose it is griefing.

Generally, raiding when the spawn is over is simply because...the spawn is over.
No additional mobs are spawning preventing movement or casting on you, it is just the people you are raiding left.

There is really no conspiracy to control the market for PS's...none at all. Most of the scrolls can be bought for pitances. It amazes me how many people still think thats the only reason to spawn.

Unfortunatly, i read someone use the bad language thing as a reason for not holding events in fel. Some of the most foul language i have read has been during trammel events. Nothing, save ignoring can be done to prevent this.

In fel people get mad...rant...fight...win/lose...usually ends there.

A question now...why should the original facet, the founding land for the game we all love and its residents be excluded from main story lines?

 

[MalagAste]

Thanks, its nice to hear


A question now...why should the original facet, the founding land for the game we all love and its residents be excluded from main story lines?

Because sadly it's been proven time and time again that the events held in Fel often don't take place...

They try.... but soon turn into mass chaos with so many dead and those doing the killing not giving one iota of care as to the original reason for the gathering and then the event just ends... without much event at all besides a few murder counts for the Zerg guild/guilds that did the killing and nothing is ever accomplished with a plot/story/ or function because the vast majority of people who cared leave after getting ganked and rez killed...

So after YEARS of this sort of thing most people have GIVEN up on ever holding any meaningful or fun events in Fel knowing that they will NOT end up even occurring...

At least not in any meaningful manner. So the question then is why do people in Fel care??? If the only goal is to get people to come to fel for a slaughter???

So then I always wonder... do they really think this is "fun"??? There is little skill involved in a Zerg... and Gank... And the event is then over in 1.5 seconds...... so you build up an event spend weeks planning it to have it over in 1.5 seconds... and then you ask yourself.... was it worth it???

Usually NO. So there is your answer.

Most "Trammies" Have the experience of a fel Zerg/Gank.... and once that happens most of them could care less if Fel were deleted...

Truth is there are a few dozen very bad apples who scam/cheat/ and their only goal is in tricking people into going to fel to gank them and take their stuff... This ruins fel and the entire "fel" experience so badly for most people that they vow NEVER to set foot there... and NEVER to try PvP.... which in my opinion is half the fun of UO. So sadly its those very bad seeds/apples..... that have ruined PvP and Fel.

IF EA ever took Scammers seriously and treated them like the criminals that they are instead of just treating the victims as losers then perhaps there would still be very full shards... If Scammers and hackers were treated properly.... then I'm sure we wouldn't see half the problems we do now. But sadly that's as likely to occur as it is that we'll ever see a true 3d UO.

 

[Arabella]

Had an absolute blast last nite at the EM event in fel. Of course, it was a gank fest but that is just part of being in fel. Those Mares were mean and I finally got my Cream Pie, Woot! Had a blast stealthing around throwing pies at the big ole meanie reds!

 

[watchertoo]

I agree with Arabella, last night was fun! Yep, huge gankfest but the mission was accomplished.

Now I am not a pvper. I reside nearly exclusively in Felucca (all my houses are in fel) and travel out to participate with two wonderful friends in RP/EM events in Trammel. I survived just fine at the event last night and had I not been running Camstudio and attempting to report on the event, I would have been chukking explodes at the mares (and all the reds).

There have been complaints about the Fel "chaos". IMO, I find at the trammel based events, the constant jumping from location to location to follow clues, 2/3rds of the participants left behind because of a lack of detective prowess or being out of the loop, landing in a dungeon and fighting a mega monster over and over and over with no one cross healing and everyone asking for "stuff" to be just as chaotic, rather repetitive and last time I found myself asking why I was doing it "yet again". I don't believe the feeling of "chaos" is exclusive to either facet of the UO world.

This event could have been better with a little preliminary background setting up a "good guy" group that drew the "bad guys" to spill blood for the Mares. If you look at what happened last night, you had groups of Fel players (yes, probably the same groups that show up at spawns, etc) fighting each other for control of the event. The trammel based players that came actually held up quite well considering they had such a huge disadvantage (not being part of a fel based group) Isn't that what was meant to happen? Everyone spilling blood for the event to move forward, spawn the Mares and ultimately kill the Mares? It was a volunteer, suicide mission after all.

I have been on several fel based player run events where a guild took responsibility (and pride/bragging rights) on taking a group of "not usually in fel" players to a spawn or harrower and the fighting happened all around them while they fought the intended target. So while most fel based players would prefer to fight, you can design that fight to allow non-pvpers to participate in an event. It isn't easy, can be really ugly but it allows all players to participate and while there is an argument that reds have chosen to limit themselves by becoming reds, pvpers have attitudes, bad language, etc., they are a significant part of UO. Many of them long time veteran players and deserve to have some events in their "world". I for one feel as uncomfortable in Trammel (many times) as Trammel players feel in Fel and I don't think I am the only player that feels that way.

Someone made the argument (not in this forum) that players with main chars that are reds should have room on their "roster" for a blue to participate in EM events. Then it follows that tram based players should have room on their "roster" for a stealther to participate in Fel based events, yes? You don't HAVE to pvp to be in Fel! You just have to play very "smart".

Face it folks, tram players and fel players are as different as their worlds and if you want to include all players in events it is going to take creativity and adaptability to accomplish that goal. I urge the EMs to seek out more Fel based players to use as advisors. You will find, when given a chance, there are a lot of intelligent, funny and creative people on this "other side" of the moongate.

 

[Cetric]

I just wanted to drop by and say, Beautiful job on the recent fell event with the horses on the island.

This was very well executed, and from a pvper stand point, very very fun.


The island was just the right size to allow large groups of people to move freely.

The gates dropping to different parts of the island was smart, the area around the gates not being able to be fielded was very smart as well.


The horses (peerless bosses) where interesting, and getting attacked by them while fighting other guilds was a challenge in and of itself. Let alone trying to kill it while fighting other guilds.


big props to the GL EM's, i had hoped the fel community wasn't forgotten, thank you


I would also like to give credit to those of you who do not participate in fel very often, you came here and did not back down and it was recognized. There was one of you (i can't remember his name) but he recalled everytime someone attacked him, so that was ehh...

But even the CFC brought a horde of battle chicken lizards, which i could not help but be amused by.

Props to all.

 

[Cetric]

I urge the EMs to seek out more Fel based players to use as advisors. You will find, when given a chance, there are a lot of intelligent, funny and creative people on this "other side" of the moongate.