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Tuchman
Guest
Use scissors on the item and be done with it.
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Returning items
- Thread starter Capt.E
- Start date
- Watchers 5
- Status
dont feel bad about keeping it.. the person that lost it knew they were going to die since they raided a spawn.. the insurance window shows how many times you can die and keep things insured.
they are playing you..
this has happend me to many times. im working a sapwn and a group of a few reds come down and we own them and take all their stuff. then they come back on blues and are like please play nice and give us our stuff back... lol.. why play nice when they didnt in the first place by coming down and wrecking your fun.
they are playing you..
this has happend me to many times. im working a sapwn and a group of a few reds come down and we own them and take all their stuff. then they come back on blues and are like please play nice and give us our stuff back... lol.. why play nice when they didnt in the first place by coming down and wrecking your fun.
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Victoria Navarre
Guest
The price of raiding us: One LT Sash
Most of the folks on this shard have up most integrity. The ones that do not are short lived and usually move on. There are no cry babies. Armour items have been returned many times over the years and from Pvper's you would never expect it from. This can be handled without name calling and false
accusation. Most of the returns take place silently. Players know who they will see everyday and play against. Those players that stay have and will return unusual items pieces or Armour etc many times over. I find this troubling to base a decision of return based on what others say or feel some have done and not the person in question. All players Red Blue Pvp or Trammie deserve respect as fellow players we should take the time to show good will no matter what .
I will say this again You have no clue what you are taking about obtain the facts.
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Victoria Navarre
Guest
I have read the OP of Capt. E and I do have the facts he posted.
The group he was in was working a spawn and was raided.They were wiped out. They came back and retured the favor. An LT sash was found on one of the raiders. Am I missing anything? Its Fel. Risk vs. Reward. I think its wrong that the raiders would feel that they are owed the sash back. BTW if you want to start picking at me for my differing opinion,then lets go. I'm game.
To Capt E. For one we are not GSE guild. We have members in GSE and Cartel but if you tell me the mods and resit on your tunic I will remake and imbue you the tunic that was cut up. For one thing I dont care what items are dropped good or bad. They should be returned no matter the situation. Cutting you're tunic is wrong and you may not believe me but I think that was wrong and I will at least make you a tunic if you would like. I wasnt in GSE at that time of that incident. This is a first of me hearing that but I am just a member myself for my faction red which was guilded at the harry raid just a couple months ago. Truly I didnt think GSE was formed not till around Nov-Dec not 9 months ago but I could be wrong. I didnt know of them until you all started bringing them up to me in icq. You should of contacted Hazmat the GM of GSE over that issue.
You may not know but I did pm SI and tell them about to watch their alliance b/c when Im getting icq's to pay me gold to back off at early morning spawns on my GSE char or offer to give up secrets and I turn them down. I dont play unfair and I have enough respect for myself not to lower myself to those tactics.
Far as I'm concerned over this matter go ahead and keep it b/c you all dont really want to return it anyway. Thats fine. The alliance you are in on Baja will carry that rep b/c of you and your guild. All you're alliance guilds will also have no items returned from now on. Pretty sad that you're alliance leading guild SI has kept an a return policy but your guild has ruined it. Thank you for proving that SI cant control their alliance guilds and follow their guild alliance guidelines.
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You may not know but I did pm SI and tell them about to watch their alliance b/c when Im getting icq's to pay me gold to back off at early morning spawns on my GSE char or offer to give up secrets and I turn them down. I dont play unfair and I have enough respect for myself not to lower myself to those tactics.
Far as I'm concerned over this matter go ahead and keep it b/c you all dont really want to return it anyway. Thats fine. The alliance you are in on Baja will carry that rep b/c of you and your guild. All you're alliance guilds will also have no items returned from now on. Pretty sad that you're alliance leading guild SI has kept an a return policy but your guild has ruined it. Thank you for proving that SI cant control their alliance guilds and follow their guild alliance guidelines.
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There was no raid by me. As stated as before get the facts.
ooooo....can you say sour grapes??
Look dude, 1st off, it's a computer game, ok? Lighten up.....secondly, you snooze you lose, finders keepers and all that fun stuff.
If I had a buncha yo-yo's act tough, raid me, get killed and then, by some freak chance, one of their goodies was suddenly in my possesion.....too bad pal. I know for sure, if the shoe was on the other foot, I'd never see it again.
Remember, it's a game.
later
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Victoria Navarre
Guest
I didn't claim you were in the raid party. Ok so you want me to "get the facts". Alright whats to know besides what Capt E has already stated? Put up or shut up.
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Capt.E
Guest
So you're going to put this on us? I'll tell ya what, we will return ANY item under 40 mil. You may want to consider buying a clothing bless deed for around 600 k for items worth more than that?
for future reference, you should not handle these things. GSE, your guild, has a terrible reputation.
As you can see from my first posts, I tried to remain unbiased, but I've come to the conclusion that he shouldn't return it.
for future reference, you should not handle these things. GSE, your guild, has a terrible reputation.
As you can see from my first posts, I tried to remain unbiased, but I've come to the conclusion that he shouldn't return it.
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Victoria Navarre
Guest
I agree that he should keep it. "Finders Keepers"
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Divster
Guest
There is no "should" about it. It is up to you totally, many people like to return items that have been lost, others don't. At the end of the day what goes around often comes around. If u decide not to give it back sometime in future you may or may not find yourself in similar situation. If you do I'm sure you would like to get ure item back and while there is no guarentee this will happen people tend to be more willing to respond in kind to people they know will do same for them!
The ones involved KNOW the facts..You were not involved so take your own advice.
Sounds like bringing it here made it more complicated, its my nature to give it back unless they were being mean. Depends on how you feel about them raiding you.
I say give it back its the only option here without risk of further complication.
If you keep it it could cause trouble, if you don't, it cant.
Hope it gets cleared up in a friendly way
good luck
- James
I say give it back its the only option here without risk of further complication.
If you keep it it could cause trouble, if you don't, it cant.
Hope it gets cleared up in a friendly way
good luck
- James
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KidJoe
Guest
Ill end this all now I am going to keep it. Thank you. 
In one post you cry for SI to allow our Allied guilds to have their own identity...
Post #17
And in this thread you condemn SI for not forcing an Allied guild to action...
I have lobbied for the return of the sash and have been in communication with Toni Fierce (M!S GM) and the GBU people on the issue. That is all I can do. Guilds allied with Spaweners Inc. are autonomous and while this is a controversial issue it isn't an issue we are going to break an Alliance over.
I think that if in the end the sash does not get returned it will be unfortunate. It's never fun to lose items; but on the flip side... it is part of the game and risk is involved.
I find humor in your threat as there is little if nothing you can threaten us with. We actively scout for you and succesfully raid 99% of the spawns we find you working. I can't be certain but I wonder if a more diplomatic approach on your group's end might help foster a more desirable outcome on your end.
Airhaun
President, SI
Post Script: You keep sending me PMs but refuse to tell me who you are in-game.
http://vboards.stratics.com/showthread.php?p=1610168#post1610168Let them have their identity as an ally and a guild
Post #17
And in this thread you condemn SI for not forcing an Allied guild to action...
Zosimus, you are a piece of work. Consistency in your arguments would help establish credibility.
I have lobbied for the return of the sash and have been in communication with Toni Fierce (M!S GM) and the GBU people on the issue. That is all I can do. Guilds allied with Spaweners Inc. are autonomous and while this is a controversial issue it isn't an issue we are going to break an Alliance over.
I think that if in the end the sash does not get returned it will be unfortunate. It's never fun to lose items; but on the flip side... it is part of the game and risk is involved.
I find humor in your threat as there is little if nothing you can threaten us with. We actively scout for you and succesfully raid 99% of the spawns we find you working. I can't be certain but I wonder if a more diplomatic approach on your group's end might help foster a more desirable outcome on your end.
Airhaun
President, SI
Post Script: You keep sending me PMs but refuse to tell me who you are in-game.
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Mitzlplik_SP
Guest
Keep it.
What the hell is this give it back BS. Joo got rolled ina PVP zone, suck it up.
What the hell is this give it back BS. Joo got rolled ina PVP zone, suck it up.
imho...
karma is a biznatch that backhands very well
karma is a biznatch that backhands very well
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Evlar
Guest
All this over an item...
Hell, it's just "stuff" right?
Hell, it's just "stuff" right?
If your guild member had armor cut up in front of him I'd say he should keep it. If not then he should give it back. It's what we do on baja if you are not a ******bag OR you have not been personally wronged by those lost it. Short of a personal problem before the fact it should be given back.
To all those who don't play Baja, I feel sorry for you because you don't know what it's like here. We give stuff back when stuff drops. We did it before imbuing when you couldn't replace anything easily.
To the Siege people. Please stop posting about things that you don't understand. We know how you feel about insurance/items. Don't be obtuse. We get it.
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Mitzlplik_SP
Guest
Well,most of the Siege people play other shards as well.....so I`m pretty sure they do understand. The OP wanted opinions....he`s getting them,all of them.
4) Ya missed the C@S and allies comment. It went over ya head. I was saying ..again..I really hate to repeat myself...that SI basically gets credit. GBU actually does give an effort but gets no glory. The posts always focuses on SI and allies. lol Look them up. I see more C@S and GBU at fel fighting then I do SI. I just see more SI at spawns.
Ya trying to twist it you're advanatge. That was concerning guild recruitment and how you SI takes all the glory in the field not you're allies. Nothing to do with a return policy. You made CTDM bow down to you ( thats what they been telling people about your guild alliance rules ) but you allow GBU to bend it. Plus I can say you guys cut up a tunic but is there proof of it? Its my word against your. How would anybody on stratics know the issue.
The thing is I kill you guys a lot so dont compare spawning to pvping. Of course raiders have the upper hand because you have spawn and raiders at same time but thats not the issue. If ya get M!S 99% of the time and scouting looking for them ummmmm how come we just did 5 spawns with them? Where are you at? Item drops I will keep it plain and simple. Want duel for accounts just say it and I can end your playing days.....
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bjornef
Guest
i would dye it black and then give it back to him
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Muu Bin
Guest
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bjornef
Guest
well black used to be my favorit color in uo back in the days
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Connor_Graham
Guest
OoooOoooOoooo.....racing for pinks, UO style.....:gun:
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CroakerTnT
Guest
I'd return it. Raids are fun, on both sides, and I'd like to encourage them.
Plus, it's not like it really matters - its just pixels, and it's so easy to make money in this game to the point where you don't have anything really to spend it on - unless you are a collector.
Plus, it's not like it really matters - its just pixels, and it's so easy to make money in this game to the point where you don't have anything really to spend it on - unless you are a collector.
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Lord GOD(GOD)
Guest
I always return items if they are part of someones suit.
Same problem, different shard. My bad.
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CatLord
Guest
Nope... that is in Baja.
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CatLord
Guest
Malicious propaganda... the item was lost in Baja.
You lost a great opportunity to be quiet...
and... we're holier than thou!
(at least we only post facts)
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Zyon Rockler
Guest
Items are never more important than people. If you could just have that item and there was nobody in the game, the item would become worthless. The only thing that makes the item worth having is the people around you. If you were to give the item back and join forces and work together, there would be more sashes but if you were to keep the item there would only be one sash and you would have lost a friend. The value of coming together is much greater than that of the sash. The power of the sash is an illusion, which is washed over by greed.
If everyone worked together as a team there would only be one enemy, the game.
If everyone worked together as a team there would only be one enemy, the game.
What does us playing siege have to do with anything? The item was lost, anyone can say it was insured. How do we really know? Is there a screen shot at the raid, of the paperdoll, with the item highlighted, and insured?
Raiders lost it, plain and simple. Big deal. Look at the economies on prodo shards. Spend some of the gold cheques you have locked down in your homes. Its only pixels.
My opinion is keep it, or sell it back for its face value if you wont use it.
And those who speak of honor to give it back? Where on earth do you get this? If the item was scammed by player X. And player X or player X's Guild returns it, thats honor. Not ganking 8v1, and allowing even number fights. Thats honor. Not killing someone when they lose conn in a duel. Thats honor. But if someone forgets to insure an item, or claims it was insured, thats thier issue. Learn from your mistakes.
Like stated above. Was the raid for fun? Has the raiding guild returned all items they ever got from a raid to the raided in the past? I highly doubt it. What if there was a drop on someone from the champ spawn. A replica? After raiding would that have been returned? I doubt it. So how is this any different?
If the player had been killed by an titan, and not able to recover the bones in time, would the player be paging a GM to try and get the item back, as the evil titan ruined thier game? We all know how that would go.
Use it, or sell it back at face value, or some sort of deal (not too big). Circulate that gold thats on your shard, dont let it collect dust on display in a house.
And IMO siege bless (1 item) is the same as insurance. We all understand it. Whether or not we agree with it, is a mute point. opinions were asked, and opinions were given. Also as stated, a lot of siege players also play a prodo shard. We understand. We just have accepted the fact its only pixels, and that when they close the doors to UO, we cant take it with us.
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Duke X. Winter
Guest
Personally I would say give it back.
Not giving it back could discourage people from PvPing, for fear of losing items that mean a lot to them. Whether this fear is valid or not isn't really one's place to say.
The aim in PvP is to fight other players. The reward is that you can claim you won. All those who say that the item shouldn't be returned should remember that by not returning the item, they are helping to push people away from PvP. Isn't the aim to keep people PvPing, and to increase fights and thus increase overall enjoyment?
If you keep punishing people for losing the fight by keeping their stuff, you're aiding in halting PvP. Just a thought.
Not giving it back could discourage people from PvPing, for fear of losing items that mean a lot to them. Whether this fear is valid or not isn't really one's place to say.
The aim in PvP is to fight other players. The reward is that you can claim you won. All those who say that the item shouldn't be returned should remember that by not returning the item, they are helping to push people away from PvP. Isn't the aim to keep people PvPing, and to increase fights and thus increase overall enjoyment?
If you keep punishing people for losing the fight by keeping their stuff, you're aiding in halting PvP. Just a thought.
- Awards
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What insanity, this is politically correctness run amuck. Awwww we can't hurt someone's feelings by keeping what they lost.... Yeah right.
Looting rights are just that RIGHTS. If you can loot an item it's yours, simple. Asking for something back is nothing short of stupid imho. Guess this is the same type mentality that would pester the gm's to give back an item from his corpse that auto decayed before he could get back to it.
Looting rights are just that RIGHTS. If you can loot an item it's yours, simple. Asking for something back is nothing short of stupid imho. Guess this is the same type mentality that would pester the gm's to give back an item from his corpse that auto decayed before he could get back to it.
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Kallie Pigeon
Guest
You are a person and you have values/morals. Do what you think is right by your own values/morals. The game is just that a game. It doesn't mean suddenly the game play takes over your values however it can mean that if you want it to. My guess is if you wanted it to you wouldn't bother asking about it. So you are asking everyone what they would do. If it were me I would give it back if the players were respectful of me and not if they weren't but I'm not saying you should do that but just do your own moral thing as you see fit.
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Duke X. Winter
Guest
Whether you agree with how they, or I, feel is irrelevant. What's relevant is that "you" want more fights. That's the whole point of PvP. Not returning items HAS resulted in less fights. So...if not returning items causes a situation that "you" don't like to happen...then logic dictates we return the item so that we what "we" want to happen, may happen.
Unless I'm wrong, and what "PvPers" want is LESS fighting and LESS of a challenge. Discuss.
So when you are in the upper end of the PvP food chain, whats the point in PvPing? Whats the reward? On siege its unanimous who the best PvPer is. And there is a fairly agreed apon top 10. So whats the point in fighting if your the best? For the loots, and rewards. Because if say only a handful of people can give you a run for your money, why fight the same 10 over and over, or have it so your killing people you are far better then? There is a point to no looting rights that also drives people from PvP. Sure player A can say he killed player B, but when the record replays the same tune over and over, whats the point. Where as having Player B attack player A with a new item that might help thier template, and still player A wins. Thats his reward, or gold should he take it. Afterall, this is a game of pixels to 95% of the world isnt it? Can you explain to me where I can lock down the knowledge I can kill someone else? If you dont think the game is about pixels or items, then there should be no complaint that a said pixel, or item was lost.
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Duke X. Winter
Guest
I agree it's a little harder to measure when you have the same top ten. However, if you're in the top ten, what's a reward to you anyways? If you take something from someone that enhances their template you're not allowing them to improve. You're really limiting the improvements they can make. Then what's the point? Person A is a top PvPer. Person B is in the top 20, but not the top 10. Person A wants more challenge. They don't get that challenge by stopping people from continuous improvement.
This is a game where there is no clear winner for very long. There is no way to win UO (not that I have to tell you that). So sometimes you have to allow people to evolve and get better items to give yourself a better challenge. Think of it this way...Player A is ranked #1 with the items they have. Player B is ranked #19 with the items they have. After much hard work, player B gets item (x) which helps them win fights to make earn the rank of #15. Now Player A and Player B fight. Player B, by some chance, drops item (x) by accident. The item will do no good to Player A. So why should he keep it?
Unfortunitly, this is where it gets into things like "he could give it to his friends" but again, the outcome is the same. Whether it's right or wrong players HAVE (often at that) quit because they have lost items they worked hard for. This decreases the PvP pool. And that's not desirable. Or am I incorrect?
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Lady_Mina
Guest
Depends on the reputation the person has who lost it.
if he's known to be a total ****** then i wouldn't return it.
But in 90% of the cases i would return it.
if he's known to be a total ****** then i wouldn't return it.
But in 90% of the cases i would return it.
Anyone who quits because they lose an item, needs help. The top PvPer on siege has nothing that isnt obtainable easily. Faction gear, and imbued gear. Simple as that. But in times when people are asking for 1 Billion dollar checks, i think if you lost item x, regarless of accident or neglagence, spend some of that gold. And if you dont have the gold, accept that the item is gone, learn from it, get on your tamer/bard and farm. Or sell some of those useless pixels you have and buy your old item back. I was broke, i mean broke about a month ago. I started cleaning my house up, and sold a bunch of stuff via my vendor. Gave some away. Im back over 10M. Which doesnt seem like much to most, but on siege we dont have people with a house to hold 1M checks. I can only think of one person with 100M, id guess the other rich are in the 50-60M range. Average person has less then 20 Id guess. Items are not expensive there. Items that go for 60M on a prodo shard go for 2M on siege. Because we understand it can be lost at the turn of a hat. So when items arent worth a whole lot, to go through my house and easily come up with 10M in gold, says Im sure the same can be done on any shard.
To everyone but the Siege people(those that feel the need to give opinions on insurance) the answer to that is obvious and I'm not going to entertain the question with an obvious answer.
The entire game is only pixels. I miss the part where that statement has any value as do many others.
It's hardly a mute point. I would not have made the statement I did if you were mute. BTW the word you are looking for is moot.
I guess the reason Siege is so dead is because so many play prodo shard huh? Do I get to come to the Siege boards and vote in your polls and make comments on all the things that affect Siege because I have a char there and play there on occasion too? I'm sure that would be all the criteria I need to do that right?
Do you think the OP was looking for the opinion of players that don't want insurance and all battles end with the victor's ability to loot the spoils? Don't you think that would be a tad bit asinine? Logic is not always the greatest factor in Uhall opinions.
This is why you don't get it.
What your doing is generalizing siege itself, which is the same as someone calling you a trammy. Whether you play tram or not. My opinion has nothing to do with being on siege, as I do have GL chars. Though Its very rare that I ever log, because I enjoy the risk reward of siege better, and I know its not for everyone.
So none of my statement have any value? Thats the pot calling the kettle black. You dont understand that this is an online game, and that there are very few items that cant be replaced. Rare event items etc. But not a damn sash. How many are on baja? What about replicas? Its stupid to worry about it. Work on getting another, and make sure its properly insured.
First off as you said above, how does this statement have any value, like many of your others? And yes thank you for correcting me on my brain fart.
First off this is the stupidest thing I have ever heard. This is Uhall, for everyone. This is not me coming over to baja forum and posting there, or commenting there. So where you get the idea that I have no right to comment on Uhall baffles me. And if you have a char there, and do play from time to time, I see no reason you cant come over and vote on things on our forum. As perhaps if the community came together to change some things, or if EA changed something based on a poll on our forum, then perhaps you would play there more. So why not be allowed to vote? I challange you find a single thread in the SP forum where I tell someone they are not allowed to vote, or have an opinion. Till that happens, dont label me, as if I would do that.
The OP poster asked for opinions, I gave them. Im not against insurance. It has its places. I have mentioned that perhaps a form of it should come to SP. Which as a community was declined. But regardless this comment has no merit (sp?). The OP never asked about insurance, or how things should end. But rather for opinions of fellow players and stratics posters. The OP stated they were raided, came back and killed the raiders, and got an item. Should they give it back. IMO its no. And the OP can take my opinion into consideration if they want to.
What isnt to get it? That its pixels? As you said the whole world is pixels. What is not to get? That people get upset when they lose pixels? I find it childish. But thats my opinion. Please explain to me whats to get about the pixels.
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Mitzlplik_SP
Guest
Hilarious thread. 
All this even after he already said he was keepin it. rolleyes:
I`m pretty sure it is you phantus who doesn`t get it.
Last I checked,this is a general forum that applies to everything UO.
All this even after he already said he was keepin it. rolleyes:
I`m pretty sure it is you phantus who doesn`t get it.
*shakes head* Ahem.....what shard are YOU from and why the hell are you posting here than!?
Last I checked,this is a general forum that applies to everything UO.
I find it sad that so many shards obviously don't have the type of people that exist on Baja. The whole fact this thread exist is proof of what we do there. All these posts about keeping the spoils and risk vs reward and non-important pixels shows that is not the case for many other shards. Sad really 
You may be onto something here. I have however become bored with my new game and don't really have the time to play anymore.
Thy enlightenment in Zen hath gained thou an eighth!
Kidjoe, be mindful that there'll be folks out actively looking for you now in hopes of gaining back the sash. So remember to insure it! (Or be really evil, pass it to a Tram-based char, destroy their hopes of recovering it)
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Cyna Star (GBU)
Guest
I am the GL of the guild that was raided and subsequently a member got the sash. I will start out by saying that decisions have been made, and ultimately it is up the individual.
I want to thank Air and SI, for their understanding. We had every intent on returning the item, and thus this thread was started after an unfortunate chain of events. We follow the alliance rules, but on the flip side of the coin are our own entity. We respect all of our alliance members, and the policies in place. That said, if this had been handled appropriately by the people who want the item back, this would be a mute point and the item back in the persons hands. SI has done a great job of facilitating Baja's largest alliances, and is the tell that the quality of their members is the reason for the success of the alliance. It is ridiculous that anyone would point the finger at them and say they need to reel us in or anyone else for that matter.
My personal view is: We as a guild field enough players that we often spawn and do hunts and events alone, we were alone in this case, and were raided in a FEL spawn. I personally died several times and was looted of items of various value (I knew when I went that I could lose them, as I was on my way to support my guild). When I lost them I chalked it up to exactly what it was, my fault. I did not after the fact go to the guild leadership or their allies and try to have someone drop a heavy hand on them for their return. The raiding guild has NEVER honored the return policy to my knowledge. Red guild behavior is what it is, you don't turn red by pvm-ing, and anyone going to a spawn KNOWS the possibility that they will die, get looted and possibly lose something if they do not insure/bless it.
I understand the individuals loss, I also understand the decision of the person who is keeping the item and support him 100%. Neither defines our credibility, honor or character. Nor does it tarnish our allies reputations, we started the process in good faith, and after the typical poo (no offense poo) slinging and juvenile responses have ended it. Decisions made.
I want to thank Air and SI, for their understanding. We had every intent on returning the item, and thus this thread was started after an unfortunate chain of events. We follow the alliance rules, but on the flip side of the coin are our own entity. We respect all of our alliance members, and the policies in place. That said, if this had been handled appropriately by the people who want the item back, this would be a mute point and the item back in the persons hands. SI has done a great job of facilitating Baja's largest alliances, and is the tell that the quality of their members is the reason for the success of the alliance. It is ridiculous that anyone would point the finger at them and say they need to reel us in or anyone else for that matter.
My personal view is: We as a guild field enough players that we often spawn and do hunts and events alone, we were alone in this case, and were raided in a FEL spawn. I personally died several times and was looted of items of various value (I knew when I went that I could lose them, as I was on my way to support my guild). When I lost them I chalked it up to exactly what it was, my fault. I did not after the fact go to the guild leadership or their allies and try to have someone drop a heavy hand on them for their return. The raiding guild has NEVER honored the return policy to my knowledge. Red guild behavior is what it is, you don't turn red by pvm-ing, and anyone going to a spawn KNOWS the possibility that they will die, get looted and possibly lose something if they do not insure/bless it.
I understand the individuals loss, I also understand the decision of the person who is keeping the item and support him 100%. Neither defines our credibility, honor or character. Nor does it tarnish our allies reputations, we started the process in good faith, and after the typical poo (no offense poo) slinging and juvenile responses have ended it. Decisions made.
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