Dismounting.

[Vaelix]

*These are my own opinions (Obviously)*


1. Dismounts pretty much only encourage gank style of pvp.

2. With 45 Hci / 120 Wep Skill vs 45 Dci / 120 skill you basically have a 50/50 chance of being dismounted anywhere on screen within 8 tiles of an archer.

3. Bolas require 0 Skill, can be used by anyone, and do not miss as long as you stay within range. Meaning you need 85+ (Ninja) Skill to effectively counter a 0 Skill "Item"

4. Back when Ninja could animal form instantly.. There were much much less dismounts and group pvp actually went Back and forth.. opposed to Dismount > Gank > Win.

5. Perhaps i'm just a scrub.

(Trying to add a Poll here, gimmie a minute)

 

[Clog|Mordain]

Dismounting should be removed from every weapon, except for lances, which only dismount when the other player is holding a lance..

Also bolas should give a 50/50 chance of dismounting..

 

[Vaelix]

Personally i have No problem with Dismounts on Melee weapons.

However *IMO* they are overpowered when used with a Heavy / Bola. Mainly because with a Heavy, you basically have a 50/50 Chance to dismount from anywhere on screen simply by double clicking someone.

And a Bola requires 0 skill and cannot miss.

As powerful as dismount is (In my opinion) it should be a little challenging to use on someone (Like with a melee weapon) opposed to simply double clicking them if they are on screen (No matter where they are, 8 Tile Range Heavy).

 

[Clog|Mordain]

Personally i have No problem with Dismounts on Melee weapons.

However *IMO* they are overpowered when used with a Heavy / Bola. Mainly because with a Heavy, you basically have a 50/50 Chance to dismount from anywhere on screen simply by double clicking someone.

And a Bola requires 0 skill and cannot miss.

As powerful as dismount is (In my opinion) it should be a little challenging to use on someone (Like with a melee weapon) opposed to simply double clicking them if they are on screen (No matter where they are, 8 Tile Range Heavy).

I would settle for a 50% chance of actually falling off when someone hits you with dismount toggled.

 

[red sky]

I know ya'll are really knocking the bolas but if you do PVP and are actually skilled, there is a message that pops up saying "so and so begins to throw a bola" and if you jump of your mount say around a second after that message pops up they basically can't bola ya. Also, because of that delay, most players who are on a mount can easily run out of the screen and out of sight unless they are being bola'd by a skilled mage who casts teleport in the right moment in the right location. Whereas, dismount with a heavy (or any weapon) is instant and usually will knock you down about 30 points of health. So therefore, I believe bolas are kind of a way for players without dismount weapons to use dismount as a tactic. Of course some of the things I referred to above may take minute skill; so it may be annoying for those who attempt these tactics.

 

[Damien Softstep]

Dismounting period should be removed it encourages ganking and makes solo pvp impossible...

Example...heavy crossbow tamer dismounts and sicks dragon on you...no animal form your dead...i should not have to have ninja on my template to counter dismounts...

 

[Vaelix]

I know ya'll are really knocking the bolas but if you do PVP and are actually skilled, there is a message that pops up saying "so and so begins to throw a bola" and if you jump of your mount say around a second after that message pops up they basically can't bola ya. Also, because of that delay, most players who are on a mount can easily run out of the screen and out of sight unless they are being bola'd by a skilled mage who casts teleport in the right moment in the right location. Whereas, dismount with a heavy (or any weapon) is instant and usually will knock you down about 30 points of health. So therefore, I believe bolas are kind of a way for players without dismount weapons to use dismount as a tactic. Of course some of the things I referred to above may take minute skill; so it may be annoying for those who attempt these tactics.

As you said, if your fighting mages they *Will teleport* with the Bola.

And since your fighting mages, the second you jump off your horse to avoid the bola.. its going to be poisoned because they are expecting to poison it anyway.. (After you "Would" of been bola'd)

 

[MalagAste]

Dismounting is fine..... leave it alone.

What's not fine is the para gank.... that is lame.

 

[Clog|Mordain]

I know ya'll are really knocking the bolas but if you do PVP and are actually skilled, there is a message that pops up saying "so and so begins to throw a bola" and if you jump of your mount say around a second after that message pops up they basically can't bola ya. Also, because of that delay, most players who are on a mount can easily run out of the screen and out of sight unless they are being bola'd by a skilled mage who casts teleport in the right moment in the right location. Whereas, dismount with a heavy (or any weapon) is instant and usually will knock you down about 30 points of health. So therefore, I believe bolas are kind of a way for players without dismount weapons to use dismount as a tactic. Of course some of the things I referred to above may take minute skill; so it may be annoying for those who attempt these tactics.

Though its the people who cannot pvp who rely on dismount to get 1 kill. Normally when someone is going to bola, they are hidden and are ready with a bola before you are even on screen. So you are not seeing said message.

Also there is one major flaw in your defense against bolas. What if you are ridden a charger or ethy? you just cant jump off and jump back on can you?

Dismounting period should be removed it encourages ganking and makes solo pvp impossible...

Example...heavy crossbow tamer dismounts and sicks dragon on you...no animal form your dead...i should not have to have ninja on my template to counter dismounts...

Agreed. When there is a tamer pvping, I generally go do something else. I hate entertaining people who think ALL KILL is pvp. And I refuse to put Ninja on any of my templates to counter this template.

As you said, if your fighting mages they *Will teleport* with the Bola.

And since your fighting mages, the second you jump off your horse to avoid the bola.. its going to be poisoned because they are expecting to poison it anyway.. (After you "Would" of been bola'd)

QFT. A smart mage will always do this..

 

[Vaelix]

Dismounting is fine..... leave it alone.

What's not fine is the para gank.... that is lame.

Paralize can be countered with a Trap Box and resist.. However, you cant "Resist" a Dismount.

 

[Clog|Mordain]

Dismounting is fine..... leave it alone.

What's not fine is the para gank.... that is lame.

Get resist... And watch what your opponents are casting. If you see someone with EO up, Magic Arrow yourself... even if they land the para, you get free'd when u take the damage.

Also, people who only think they can pvp properly on a mage and cant, use EO+Para.

 

[Tinsil]

Dismounting is fine. If there weren't dismounts it'd be too hard to kill people. People don't die fast enough as it is in my opinion, with all the pots and extra junk.

 

[Vaelix]

Dismounting is fine. If there weren't dismounts it'd be too hard to kill people. People don't die fast enough as it is in my opinion, with all the pots and extra junk.

Back when you could animal form instantly after dismount people managed just fine.

And to those of you that are Voting that "Dismounting is fine" Would you mind giving me your opinions on what keeps it balanced?

 

[bjornef]

nothing like a good gank why cry abouth it

 

[Clog|Mordain]

Dismounting is fine. If there weren't dismounts it'd be too hard to kill people. People don't die fast enough as it is in my opinion, with all the pots and extra junk.

Oh no! I'm not good enough to kill someone, so I must dismount them and 5v1 gank them!

Lemme guess, your in one of those zerg guilds arent you?

 

[bjornef]

i prefer to fight alone can find me mining nude in fel euro wen i am able to play again on my win 7 comp

 

[Aurelius]

Plays hell with the skill cap and the juggling of skills to fit in, but I always thought riding should be a skill, so it could oppose whatever skill is being used to dismount you, as well as determine what creatures you can ride (Ethereals being rideable by anyone with an old enough account for the mount, but they would have to use the character's base riding skill, which could be 0, to resist dismounts).

 

[Damien Softstep]

Dismounting is fine..... leave it alone.

What's not fine is the para gank.... that is lame.

Dismounting is fine. If there weren't dismounts it'd be too hard to kill people. People don't die fast enough as it is in my opinion, with all the pots and extra junk.

I honestly see why people are quitting this game in the masses...

 

[Scratch]

several ways to fix dismount ganking..............

when the message is given " so and so begins to swing a bola" the bola should be able to be disarmed

specials should toggle off when dismounting oneself to prevent toggling the dismount and hopping on a mount with a macro thus carrying the dismount toggled while riding ready for instant use

archers using heavys after dismounting should have a 3sec timer before they can say all kill

mages casting teleport with a pre swung bola should lose their bola target cursor when casting

dci should work on bolas or bolas should require throwing skill to use and tactics to determine chance of success.

people with more than 1 control slot in use should not be able to dismount

remove dismount special from bows

or my personal choice of solutions is to make dismounting itself a skill....needing gm dismount for an 80% chance to dismount.

dismount ganking is for the weak....it shows lack of skill and lack of courage to fight someone with even odds....i can kill people on a naked char with 360 skill points and a bola.....id say there is a problem for sure

 

[dukarlo]

Personaly i think animal form is to easy a crutch as it is. With the speedhacks in the game many players templates are already geared around animal form running and hiding as it is, the game is all about running. Make dismounting(especialy with bolas)more difficult and it just plays right into these templates even more. Ninja is already the latest noob gimp template, Pvp suffers for it. I didnt vote in the poll because I dont think a suitable answer to it was available. Make hiding and stealth work like it did pre samurai empire and then maybe then you can talk about changing dismounts. Anyone that has half a clue about pvp can run and and hide forever with a ninja.

 

[Splup]

Dismounts are just fine...

If you play solo without any friends, get ninjitsu, keep teleporting, smokebomb, use telerings, use invisrings etc. there's many ways to get away from biting dirt cause of one dismount.

If you have even 1 friend (who plays mage or is really good bandie xhealer), just keep teleporting or what ever till you can mount, cure ur pet and jump on it.

I play mainly mage and I'v survived enough many gangs even thou I don't use tele or invisrings just by teleporting smartly. And when having 1 friend cross healing it gets lot easier.

4 sek bandies, 50 ep pots, evasion, confidence, smokebombs, animal form stealthers, apples, remove curse, healing winds etc... So many defensive stuff nowdays that dismount is needed special.

 

[Lefty]

Dismounting is fine..... leave it alone.

What's not fine is the para gank.... that is lame.

Ya sure, just like

Concussion was fine
LS was fine without a cap was fine
AI was fine without a cap was fine
perfection in PvP was fine
Deathstrike pre Pub 46 was fine
20-23 Ornates were fine
5/6 casting was fine
WoD was fine
so on and so on

The Old devs would of called dismounting an unfair advantage.

 

[Aran]

GM Hiding solves everything. Get a few tiles away, disappear.

 

[Ls Jax Ls]

Dismounts are just fine...

If you play solo without any friends, get ninjitsu, keep teleporting, smokebomb, use telerings, use invisrings etc. there's many ways to get away from biting dirt cause of one dismount.

If you have even 1 friend (who plays mage or is really good bandie xhealer), just keep teleporting or what ever till you can mount, cure ur pet and jump on it.

I play mainly mage and I'v survived enough many gangs even thou I don't use tele or invisrings just by teleporting smartly. And when having 1 friend cross healing it gets lot easier.

I don't know what shard you play or what PvP is like there, but when I get dismounted there are usually somewhere between 3-5 people on me immediately (mainly dexxers). There are simply situations in which after being dismounted there is no out. You can teleport, yes, but not when your bleeding, running shotted, nerved, etc with a greater dragon on you. Any group of sub-par dexxers can kill ANY mage after they're dismounted...I don't care who you are.

There are a couple different options to fix dismounts I can think of:

1. Remove it completely. This will never happen since devs seem to be strongly against removing entire aspects of UO (good or not).

2. Decrease significantly, or perhaps, eliminate the re-mount timer all together. This would still give players a chance to poison/kill your mount before your able to re-mount.

3. Implement some sort of penalty to players who miss a dismount. For example, the player in question is calmed?/slept?/paralyzed? for 10 seconds. This would decrease the number of dismount archers since they would become easy targets following a missed dismount.

4. Lastly, eliminate mounts/ninja form in fel. Level playing field for everyone. This will also never happen, but thought it would be interesting to mention.

Honestly, I don't care what they do or how they do it. All I know is that dismounting is destroying all skill that used to be necessary in PvP. Quite simply, the guild with more players can afford to go on foot to dismount, whereas the smaller group must struggle to survive on mount, in addition to the constant threat of being dismounted. There is absolutely no need for dismount in PvP...think back to when AOS first came out, dismount was all but non-existent and, in my opinion, much more fun than it is today. Unfortunately, it will probably never be fixed as the dismount archers and zerg guilds would riot in the masses.

 

[GL_Seller]

Leave dismounting alone its one of the only way u can cut back on these speedhackers plagueing this god damn game. Although i think they are 95.0001% done with their fix for speedhacking. Until that is solved leave dismounting alone.

If you want to cry about something how about smoke bombs? My thief has 0 defense and yet lives in massive ganks because of the uberness of a smoke bomb. Its so god damn embarassing that i can live through the ganks i do because i can disappear at will.

 

[Coragin]

you know all the pvpers that completely rely on dismount in their template or to get kills will be saying dismount is fine.

 

[Tinsil]

Oh no! I'm not good enough to kill someone, so I must dismount them and 5v1 gank them!

Lemme guess, your in one of those zerg guilds arent you?

Actually no. My guild is very good and we only have about 5-8 people total. Try again.

 

[MalagAste]

Get resist... And watch what your opponents are casting. If you see someone with EO up, Magic Arrow yourself... even if they land the para, you get free'd when u take the damage.

Also, people who only think they can pvp properly on a mage and cant, use EO+Para.

I have my ways around the para but it's no less lame...

As for Dismount.... in the realm of everyone using speed hacks the dismount barely levels the field...

 

[Vaelix]

I have my ways around the para but it's no less lame...

As for Dismount.... in the realm of everyone using speed hacks the dismount barely levels the field...

Saying that a Cheat balences an Ingame Ability holds no water from my opinion.

Teleport will work to an extent, However most of the fighting is done in Yew where houses are and Houses have a 4-5 Tile Radius that prevents teleport around them.

Hiding is an 8 Tile Distance from someone Flagged on you to be able to hide.

Invis will be instantly revealed via Conflag, Explosion pot, or Area spell.

There are only Two effective counters to dismounting in my Opinion..

Ninja Form 85+
or
Stealth Hide Ninja Smoke bomb.

The problem is, Those counters require 85 to 225 Skill ( 85 Ninja / 100 Hide, 75 Stealth, 50 Ninja smoke bomb ).... When Bolas require 0 Skill and cannot miss when thrown successfully.

 

[Viper09]

Everyone uses dismount at one point or another. In some cases dismount is necessary to get your target. Remove dismount and there will be a lot of complaints, even from people here who are saying to remove it. It's not hard to avoid death after dismount. Depending on how many people are on you of course.

The only real problems with dismount is with the tamers who set their pets on the dismounted person. However I don't often see tamers successfully kill the person they dismounted.

The other problem is dismount ganking. But ganking always happens! Everyone ganks at one point or another! Mounted ganking or unmounted ganking. You should have gotten use to ganking by now!

Of course then comes the bola problem. Having bolas require the throwing skill is a good change. This is the only thing I agree with here.

 

[Mook Chessy]

Any player should have a 5% chance to dismount with a Bola, then add % based on DEX and HCI with a MAX of 30%.

 

[Tinsil]

Saying that a Cheat balences an Ingame Ability holds no water from my opinion./QUOTE]

I think they're saying it's the other way around.. The dismount helps balance against the cheat.

 

[Vaelix]

Saying that a Cheat balences an Ingame Ability holds no water from my opinion./QUOTE]

I think they're saying it's the other way around.. The dismount helps balance against the cheat.

Ah well.. Consdier this, with Speed Hack fixed (In an imaginary world) Dismounts would be even more powerful?

And just a Note, Those of you saying that its possible to survive a dismount.. it is, If the people are you pvping against are clueless.

 

[SixUnder]

its as simple as this, if there are more than one target on another player no one should be able to dismount said target. this would prevent mass ganks.

as far as im concerned, if 2 players are engaged on a single target no one else should be able to engage as well. iv said that since aos.

this would make fights fair instead of who is zerging it out. bring skill back into the game.

 

[Bombastic Fail]

Just throwing it out there..


Bolas USED to be scaled on your tactics skill. 80 Tactics required to use them. When a bola was thrown, it was destroyed.

^100% Fact


This (80 Tactics) gave you a base 25% chance to *dismount* the target. 100 Tactics gave you a 75% chance to dismount your target.

^Not COMPLETELY sure about this; but believe it to be correct.


Of course; this was all before power scrolls. So maybe 100 Tactics for 25%, and 75% chance with 120 tactics?



Yes; I play a mage. Yes; I use bolas. Yes; I think they are cheesy. No; I wouldn't care regardless if they are changed. I'm just saying.

 

[Zero Day]

Basically to sum it up is you don't want to get ganked.

If you took dismount out nobody would die.

People would just run around indefinitely when they got low.

The only people who'd be getting kills would be speed hackers.

Removing dismount would be a horrible idea.

I'm all for more penalties to keep people in combat after they perform a dismount maneuver, but taking out dismount would be dooming the game to a new level of pointlessness

 

[WarUltima]

I think bola is fine. Id rather fight again a group with multiple bola throwers than a group with 1 dismount archer.

You can practice on when to hop off your mount while keep the time you are on foot as short as possible.

Dismount archers on the other hand is all about rng. They can instantly hop off mount and dismount you anywhere within 8 tiles of him.
You can't get good at rng and on top of the inavoidable archery dismount. Bola does 5.dmg while archer dismount can slap you as hard as 50dmg thru all 70 resist... yeaaa bolas are problems only for immatures.

 

[Vaelix]

Basically to sum it up is you don't want to get ganked.

If you took dismount out nobody would die.

People would just run around indefinitely when they got low.

The only people who'd be getting kills would be speed hackers.

Removing dismount would be a horrible idea.

I'm all for more penalties to keep people in combat after they perform a dismount maneuver, but taking out dismount would be dooming the game to a new level of pointlessness

Nerve Strike, Death Strike, Paralize spell, Paralize Blow, Moving Shot, Mutitple Sync FS Dump, Multiple Sync AI Dump, Multiple Sync Conc Dump.

Everything there can either Kill someone or Contribute to killing them (The paraliyze abilities) by preventing them from moving instantly..

 

[Viper09]

Nerve Strike, Death Strike, Paralize spell, Paralize Blow, Moving Shot, Mutitple Sync FS Dump, Multiple Sync AI Dump, Multiple Sync Conc Dump.

Everything there can either Kill someone or Contribute to killing them (The paraliyze abilities) by preventing them from moving instantly..

easier said than done...

There's also a bit of something called healing.

 

[Zero Day]

Moving shot only applies to archers.
And dexers have to be beside someone to hit. Which means a running target is avoiding all specs beyond the initial attack.

Para hit lasts up to 2 seconds but then you're immune for 15 - 20 seconds. So you'd basically have to kill them in the duration of the imobilize.


Currently Players can bandage, pot, confidence , or straight up regen while running to regain hp. so they never have to actually stop to heal.

If they do happen to stop it takes ~1 second to cast lesser heal, or 1.25 seconds to cast rejuventation which will keep healing on the run for a while and is free with JOAT.

The game is on easy mode. It's almost necessary to get somone on foot to have a fight that actually comes to fruition. And since nobody sticks around to fight the only way you get to kill them is ganking.

 

[Vaelix]

easier said than done...

There's also a bit of something called healing.

7 Mages stand on the same tile, Holding meteor swarm up.. and Click the ground when someone runs up.

Cant heal around that.. and is very simple.

 

[Viper09]

7 Mages stand on the same tile, Holding meteor swarm up.. and Click the ground when someone runs up.

Cant heal around that.. and is very simple.

Yeah...right...and you see that done how often?

Instead I usually see them running after the person. Not a group strictly consisting of mages sitting there and just hoping that your target is going to run right in your direction and suddenly all deciding to cast meteor and hoping to time it all right and have it kill them.

 

[EDA_GL]

Bolas are fine just the way they are. For the critics saying that anyone can use them....

Yes, any newbie can double click the bola...but in order to get it to actually dismount someone takes quite a bit of practice. Assuming your using these in PVP, not in tram battles. Many have suggested that hopping off your mount will cancel the bola. First off, I'm surprised someone actually mentioned that!
What an idea 'no reason to bola this person'. Then the bola'er is screwed for 6ish seconds until they can mount/re-swing a new one.
Cutting behind corners, playing with the crap uneven terrain in T2A can even block a bola (been 3 tiles away and missed MANY bola tosses because of this).
Get ninjitsu, sounds lame...but not nearly as bad as making a poll for the devs to change dismount.

 

[Capt.E]

dismounts are fine

1. The person that just dismounted you is on foot for the same duration that you are

2. If you are talking about 4v1 or 5v1 you've got to expect that you are gonna die. Does it matter if you are on your horse??

3. Some specials are not really 50/50 hit chance. Mortal and dismount are 2 examples. Even at 45 hci for archer and 45 dci for mounted person it does not hit at 50%. I havent personally crunched numbers but a well informed guess is around 35-40 percent.

4. The only reason people can't survive now is because everyone is running a 2 button mashing dexxer in fel and can't xheal.

5. The person dismounting has to be on foot to do it. So getting out of range or outrunning the dismount is the best tactic. Unless they are using an animal and that a whole different story.

6. The real issue here is the power of archery not the power of the dismount.

 

[Cirno]

Perhaps they should make dismounting skill based, by making it an opposed skill check.

Create a flying/riding skill, and tie all mounted rate movements to an appropriate skill.
Tie all dismounts to a relevant skill, such as the weapon skill.
Then, all dismounts can be resisted similarly to combat hit checks. 120 vs 120 would get a 50% chance of dismounting.

Sometimes, I just wonder whether the problem is dismounting, or if it's the free movement rate buff of mounted rate.

 

[WarUltima]

dismounts are fine

1. The person that just dismounted you is on foot for the same duration that you are

2. If you are talking about 4v1 or 5v1 you've got to expect that you are gonna die. Does it matter if you are on your horse??

3. Some specials are not really 50/50 hit chance. Mortal and dismount are 2 examples. Even at 45 hci for archer and 45 dci for mounted person it does not hit at 50%. I havent personally crunched numbers but a well informed guess is around 35-40 percent.

4. The only reason people can't survive now is because everyone is running a 2 button mashing dexxer in fel and can't xheal.

5. The person dismounting has to be on foot to do it. So getting out of range or outrunning the dismount is the best tactic. Unless they are using an animal and that a whole different story.

6. The real issue here is the power of archery not the power of the dismount.

1. Yea...

2. OK

3. Other than moving shots... special hit chance is EXACTLY the same as your regular attack hit chance. I dont know where you get that info from, but I am pretty sure that's not how UO works. With HLD its actually 62.5% hit /31.5% miss for all specials unless someone has 70dci or someone hit you with HLA.

4. Sure UO is got tons of dexers (mostly archers) nowdays.

5. Thats correct... when is the last time you see the instant hop off mount instant attack instant miracle dismount coming from a SEEMLY full speed running mounted archer from SEEMLY a whole screen away (I see this done pretty much every day)... heck there's even a gimp template at work simply of this is crap is possible (dismount, all kill, moving shot spam, zero skill archer tamer)...

6. I agree. I mean if bola and archery dismounts are both going to stay as is... I'd rather be fighting against a 7-men group with 3 bola'er trying to bola me than fighting with just 5 people with 1 dedicated archery dismounter doing drive by dismounts.

 

[A Rev]

Ooooo i wana chime in!

The only thing broke with dismount is riding swipe.

 

[roninaxx]

dismount should do damage more for melee weapons, less damage the farther away you are but hitting the ground should damage you at least 8-10 points. it should also damage any non ethy rides . bola's should also entangle people on foot, like narvey's webs, based on dex. throwing skill should increase damage and timer for entangling non-mounted players,, never thought it should be an always work thing if you hit should work like a special move and take mana and it should have to be equiped not just in your pack, you can fail dismount with a pitchfork why not bola's? say 40% witth no skill and increasing by 10% for every 20 points of throwing, yes I know its basicly a non skill design but it should be skill based e.g: throwing or work based on use best weapon template but still require a weapon skill.

 

[the 4th man]

Dismounting needs to go one step further actually.......something along the lines of being flattened on yer keister, knocked down, stumbles to get up......

One can be knocked off a mount by a heavy blunt instrument.....even being clothes lined.............


I see this as yet another carebear need.

Trammel is a haven from the insistent whines of pvp.

later

 

[WarUltima]

Dismounting needs to go one step further actually.......something along the lines of being flattened on yer keister, knocked down, stumbles to get up......

One can be knocked off a mount by a heavy blunt instrument.....even being clothes lined.............


I see this as yet another carebear need.

Trammel is a haven from the insistent whines of pvp.

later

Sigh...

You dont even use dismount attack in the carebear land why you bother posting?