Y
Yen Sid
Guest
Last time I checked, subscription fees per month paid for some answers, I'm not going to pay more for information that we should be getting anyway rolleyes:.
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With proper communication skills you invite not demand that interaction.
Does interaction encourage game players, especially when questions are answered? Of course it does.
Does it lend towards even more discussion on the forums and help problem solve some key elements of the game? Yep, yep.
Debating whether they should or should not be posting has gone from opinions to rants. Is it a courtesy not a requirement. Ask the Devs was set up as an extension of that courtesy with no time constraints or Friday deadlines.
I realize this whole thread has degenerated to the point of essentially the same comments being made with different emotes of emphasis but a rant for the sake of ranting is not constructive to any type of action and as Dr. Phil might say, "you are becoming the means of your own destruction."
(say it with a Texan drawwwl...it sounds better)
Anways, last comment from me in this subject thread as I'm not an avid bird watcher. *Big Grin*
Cheers!
Does interaction encourage game players, especially when questions are answered? Of course it does.
Does it lend towards even more discussion on the forums and help problem solve some key elements of the game? Yep, yep.
Debating whether they should or should not be posting has gone from opinions to rants. Is it a courtesy not a requirement. Ask the Devs was set up as an extension of that courtesy with no time constraints or Friday deadlines.
I realize this whole thread has degenerated to the point of essentially the same comments being made with different emotes of emphasis but a rant for the sake of ranting is not constructive to any type of action and as Dr. Phil might say, "you are becoming the means of your own destruction."
(say it with a Texan drawwwl...it sounds better)
Anways, last comment from me in this subject thread as I'm not an avid bird watcher. *Big Grin*
Cheers!
kelmo
Old and in the way
Professional
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Just wow! I could not have said it better. *bows*
May I remind you all of a certain Xmas in game when we received NOTHING.... from the team.... Until there was an enormous outcry here... of angry people.....
How about receiving the same gift two years running?
In my opinion..... in a game well known for giving us yearly gifts that was one of the most obvious oversights by any DEV team ever. It still is in my memory...
THAT is only half the disappointment many of us have come to "expect" from the team... So if we seem irritated or negative there are reasons...
And trust me I have many, many more... some of which I will not speak of, but are equally disappointing and typical of what we "expect" from the team.
I work in a laboratory..... I know all too well about mistakes. I also know quite a bit about QUALITY CONTROL. And the need to test and ensure that what you are doing is accurate and complete.
If I did my job like some other folk do their jobs... I could kill people...
But I have come to expect accuracy... and QUALITY...
Communication is also a large key to satisfaction... the lack of any communication to me shows a lack of devotion and dedication to the subscription base.... the ones who technically "pay the salary"... of every employee working on UO... And one would think that they would want to listen to their player base..... know what drives them... what is important to them.... and how they FEEL about the service that is being provided....
Course where I work we send them surveys to determine just how we are doing... We don't have forums to read.
But canning the community rep oft times sends the message that communication is NOT important...
I've played for many years.... I miss seeing my GM's when they respond... I miss getting a response from a GM during the 5 hours I wait... There are some things that are completely inexcusable in my opinion with customer service.
Taking the "face" off of the GM's is one... Even if it is pixilated... having someone actually come to you in game makes you feel as though they really care... Giving a canned message response on a tiny button way up in the corner of your screen almost unseen... is NOT a good sign. Often times if the GM simply came and spoke to the person who paged the problem would be solved the FIRST time not 10 pages later when you've reworded and retyped out the situation a dozen times or more because who you're talking to has NO CLUE what UO is what it's about or what your problem is.... but if they took the 2 min to come talk to you.... IT WOULD BE OBVIOUS what the problem was.... and remedied the FIRST time... Saving GM's time.... and the customers time.
These are only a FEW of the examples of customer SERVICE that we the players have come to EXPECT like it or not from EA... so if we sound a bit bitter and negative it is NOT without good reason.
Most of us LOVE UO just as much as the next guy... it's that LOVE for the game that drives some of us to DEMAND something be done. And communication is the KEY.
And I am well aware that you catch more bees with honey than you do with vinegar.... BUT in many instances the squeaky wheel gets the grease while the silent one goes without...
I'm not going to sit by and do nothing while I watch the level of customer service plummet into the abyss... I'm going to raise my voice up from there and DEMAND something be done in a CLEAR and LOUD voice.
Otherwise I may end up one of the hundreds who tucked tail and left... which also sends a VERY clear message... Have you looked around your village of late? I have... and I have to admit... the outlook isn't to good.
When the team has done a good job at customer service... and when EA has opened up their eyes to who pays their bills and starts treating their customer base with more respect.... THEN and only THEN will I pick up my pom poms and start waving them.
And I have been known to give THANKS where it is warranted, WHEN it is warranted.
How about receiving the same gift two years running?
In my opinion..... in a game well known for giving us yearly gifts that was one of the most obvious oversights by any DEV team ever. It still is in my memory...
THAT is only half the disappointment many of us have come to "expect" from the team... So if we seem irritated or negative there are reasons...
And trust me I have many, many more... some of which I will not speak of, but are equally disappointing and typical of what we "expect" from the team.
I work in a laboratory..... I know all too well about mistakes. I also know quite a bit about QUALITY CONTROL. And the need to test and ensure that what you are doing is accurate and complete.
If I did my job like some other folk do their jobs... I could kill people...
But I have come to expect accuracy... and QUALITY...
Communication is also a large key to satisfaction... the lack of any communication to me shows a lack of devotion and dedication to the subscription base.... the ones who technically "pay the salary"... of every employee working on UO... And one would think that they would want to listen to their player base..... know what drives them... what is important to them.... and how they FEEL about the service that is being provided....
Course where I work we send them surveys to determine just how we are doing... We don't have forums to read.
But canning the community rep oft times sends the message that communication is NOT important...
I've played for many years.... I miss seeing my GM's when they respond... I miss getting a response from a GM during the 5 hours I wait... There are some things that are completely inexcusable in my opinion with customer service.
Taking the "face" off of the GM's is one... Even if it is pixilated... having someone actually come to you in game makes you feel as though they really care... Giving a canned message response on a tiny button way up in the corner of your screen almost unseen... is NOT a good sign. Often times if the GM simply came and spoke to the person who paged the problem would be solved the FIRST time not 10 pages later when you've reworded and retyped out the situation a dozen times or more because who you're talking to has NO CLUE what UO is what it's about or what your problem is.... but if they took the 2 min to come talk to you.... IT WOULD BE OBVIOUS what the problem was.... and remedied the FIRST time... Saving GM's time.... and the customers time.
These are only a FEW of the examples of customer SERVICE that we the players have come to EXPECT like it or not from EA... so if we sound a bit bitter and negative it is NOT without good reason.
Most of us LOVE UO just as much as the next guy... it's that LOVE for the game that drives some of us to DEMAND something be done. And communication is the KEY.
And I am well aware that you catch more bees with honey than you do with vinegar.... BUT in many instances the squeaky wheel gets the grease while the silent one goes without...
I'm not going to sit by and do nothing while I watch the level of customer service plummet into the abyss... I'm going to raise my voice up from there and DEMAND something be done in a CLEAR and LOUD voice.
Otherwise I may end up one of the hundreds who tucked tail and left... which also sends a VERY clear message... Have you looked around your village of late? I have... and I have to admit... the outlook isn't to good.
When the team has done a good job at customer service... and when EA has opened up their eyes to who pays their bills and starts treating their customer base with more respect.... THEN and only THEN will I pick up my pom poms and start waving them.
And I have been known to give THANKS where it is warranted, WHEN it is warranted.
Taylor
Former Stratics CEO (2011-2014)
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Alumni
Supporter
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
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OT: Remember when GMs would have fun with players with unscheduled/ad hoc events? I remember a friend telling a GM that he liked killing rats. Within half an hour, the town criers were shouting about plagues of rats and hordes of the critters flooded the major cities.
Back on topic, it is entirely possible to provide negative feedback or raise concerns without being abrasive. The developers are consistently professional on forums – this is their job. Would you yell at or insult someone during a meeting at your job? Would you be likely to respond kindly if someone did this to you?
If you want to elicit a response from your devs, provide feedback, whether positive or negative, in a professional manner. I guarantee that this method will afford more open and more consistent communication.
Back on topic, it is entirely possible to provide negative feedback or raise concerns without being abrasive. The developers are consistently professional on forums – this is their job. Would you yell at or insult someone during a meeting at your job? Would you be likely to respond kindly if someone did this to you?
If you want to elicit a response from your devs, provide feedback, whether positive or negative, in a professional manner. I guarantee that this method will afford more open and more consistent communication.
C
Connor_Graham
Guest
Y'all do realize UO is just a game right?
(Texas accent provided for AirmidCecht)
(Texas accent provided for AirmidCecht)
T
Trebr Drab
Guest
This reminds me of what I learned long ago, a story in the most age'ed of manuscripts...of dealing with that most unwelcome of personal encounters, the angry customer.
You see, I was on the front lines, the lowest levels of Hades, dealing with customer complaints. The first floor of the mega structure, as it were.
And one evening, confronted with hate and vile, I returned what I got and received more of the same. The marbled halls shook under the anger of words, the lights dimmed under thunderous roars. This angry customer left, slamming the revolving door at the entrance, leaving me feeling alone in the massive ornately decorated halls under the dim lights of the evening, my head hung low and my pride hurting of failure.
And then, just as I felt I was all alone in the world, a voice came to me. "Son", it said...."son"....it reverberated through the halls.
I turned and peered down the long, dimly lit longest of marble halls. And far at the end I could faintly make out the tall stature of a man. "Son" again came to mine ears. So I approached the figure, tentative in my uncertainty. I approached some more, for the hall was long. Then after an eternity of slow, indecisive steps, I finally did approach him, a tall figure standing alone at the far end of the hall. "Yes?" I replied, not sure of where this was going to lead me. "Son, I have heard your plight. You seek an answer." I said "yes, I seek to know that age old question." I paused for a moment, but he did not reply, so I went on. "I seek to know how to deal with the angry customer."
The tall man then said unto me "Son, seek ye the answer. Go to the top of the ivory tower, where you will find an age'ed and venerable man of wisdom, and ask of him what you seek to know." I merely nodded, for a reply was not needed. Leaving him, and he simply plunging his mop into a bucket of muddied waters.
To the top of the ivory tower I did go. I took the elevator. And whence I came to the top floor, as the doors slid open, there sat the age'ed and venerable man of wisdom. I looked upon him, but he did not meet my gaze for he was turned away, sitting behind his giant walnut desk in a chair of fine corinthian leather, gazing out of the window for a wall and into the darkness of the night. I did not speak first in the presence of such reverence. But after a pause and without turning around to me, he said "You have come to me seeking knowledge." It was a statement, not a question, but I answered anyways. "Yes."
"Speak thy question, my son, so that I may answer thee."
So I asked of the age'ed and venerable old man, "Wise old man, I seek to know how to deal with angry customers, for I have failed and have a wont to turn failure into success."
He paused for a moment before answering. I was not sure he was going to answer me, for the pause was long. And then he stood from his chair of fine corinthian leather and peered out the glass wall window into the night. He said "come here, my son."
I approached him with as much trepidation as I did the tall man so far below, on the first floor of this ivory tower. When I was at his side, he bade me look out the window, into the night, and down upon the city coming alive under the lights of the night. He said to me then, "had you come to me in anger, spitting foul words and venom, and if I had thrown you out this window to fall far to the ground as a result, would you not curse me even more on your way down?" "Would you not be happier to leave by the elevator?"
It was like a thunderbolt! I suddenly understood. You see, the answer is simple. It's not how they come at ye, it's how they leave ye.
You see, I was on the front lines, the lowest levels of Hades, dealing with customer complaints. The first floor of the mega structure, as it were.
And one evening, confronted with hate and vile, I returned what I got and received more of the same. The marbled halls shook under the anger of words, the lights dimmed under thunderous roars. This angry customer left, slamming the revolving door at the entrance, leaving me feeling alone in the massive ornately decorated halls under the dim lights of the evening, my head hung low and my pride hurting of failure.
And then, just as I felt I was all alone in the world, a voice came to me. "Son", it said...."son"....it reverberated through the halls.
I turned and peered down the long, dimly lit longest of marble halls. And far at the end I could faintly make out the tall stature of a man. "Son" again came to mine ears. So I approached the figure, tentative in my uncertainty. I approached some more, for the hall was long. Then after an eternity of slow, indecisive steps, I finally did approach him, a tall figure standing alone at the far end of the hall. "Yes?" I replied, not sure of where this was going to lead me. "Son, I have heard your plight. You seek an answer." I said "yes, I seek to know that age old question." I paused for a moment, but he did not reply, so I went on. "I seek to know how to deal with the angry customer."
The tall man then said unto me "Son, seek ye the answer. Go to the top of the ivory tower, where you will find an age'ed and venerable man of wisdom, and ask of him what you seek to know." I merely nodded, for a reply was not needed. Leaving him, and he simply plunging his mop into a bucket of muddied waters.
To the top of the ivory tower I did go. I took the elevator. And whence I came to the top floor, as the doors slid open, there sat the age'ed and venerable man of wisdom. I looked upon him, but he did not meet my gaze for he was turned away, sitting behind his giant walnut desk in a chair of fine corinthian leather, gazing out of the window for a wall and into the darkness of the night. I did not speak first in the presence of such reverence. But after a pause and without turning around to me, he said "You have come to me seeking knowledge." It was a statement, not a question, but I answered anyways. "Yes."
"Speak thy question, my son, so that I may answer thee."
So I asked of the age'ed and venerable old man, "Wise old man, I seek to know how to deal with angry customers, for I have failed and have a wont to turn failure into success."
He paused for a moment before answering. I was not sure he was going to answer me, for the pause was long. And then he stood from his chair of fine corinthian leather and peered out the glass wall window into the night. He said "come here, my son."
I approached him with as much trepidation as I did the tall man so far below, on the first floor of this ivory tower. When I was at his side, he bade me look out the window, into the night, and down upon the city coming alive under the lights of the night. He said to me then, "had you come to me in anger, spitting foul words and venom, and if I had thrown you out this window to fall far to the ground as a result, would you not curse me even more on your way down?" "Would you not be happier to leave by the elevator?"
It was like a thunderbolt! I suddenly understood. You see, the answer is simple. It's not how they come at ye, it's how they leave ye.
OK, this thread has proven the theory of devolution. I am almost sorry I started it (I guess I let my sarcastic streak get the better of me in the OP / for that is what it was, not a rant or a rave, nor me intending to be meanspirited).
My point in this thread was simply to point out my perception of, and to ask for more, communication from the Devs.
This, to me, was the point of the "Ask the Devs" Forum. We ask, Devs answer.
To me, there seems to me to be a lack of the latter. Unfortunately, when a tool like the "Ask the Devs" Forum is not used, and people start feeling ingnored, they will ignore the tool itself. Soon, people will stop posting questions to that Forum, and, eventually, Petra will delete the entire Forum for lack of use.
I sincerely hope that Zig (with a little help from Cal (I feel for yah Zig, I know he is a Zoomie, but he can change
) will get the Ask the Devs Forum flowing with info.
Cal - please forgive my continued digs at you being a Zoomie, but it was ground into my personality for 4 years GO ARMY BEAT SOMEBODY......PLEASE!!!!!!!!!!
My point in this thread was simply to point out my perception of, and to ask for more, communication from the Devs.
This, to me, was the point of the "Ask the Devs" Forum. We ask, Devs answer.
To me, there seems to me to be a lack of the latter. Unfortunately, when a tool like the "Ask the Devs" Forum is not used, and people start feeling ingnored, they will ignore the tool itself. Soon, people will stop posting questions to that Forum, and, eventually, Petra will delete the entire Forum for lack of use.
I sincerely hope that Zig (with a little help from Cal (I feel for yah Zig, I know he is a Zoomie, but he can change
) will get the Ask the Devs Forum flowing with info.Cal - please forgive my continued digs at you being a Zoomie, but it was ground into my personality for 4 years
GO ARMY BEAT SOMEBODY......PLEASE!!!!!!!!!!
C
Cal_Mythic
Guest
LOL .. this has certainly been lively to watch. And I embrace my "Zoomieness" And to the point of full disclosure there is nothing like the Army v. Navy game. AF will never pull the crowds West Point and Annapolis does. I guess we'll just be responsible for Close Air Support and Air Superiority while Army actually gets the work done.OK, this thread has proven the theory of devolution. I am almost sorry I started it (I guess I let my sarcastic streak get the better of me in the OP / for that is what it was, not a rant or a rave, nor me intending to be meanspirited).
My point in this thread was simply to point out my perception of, and to ask for more, communication from the Devs.
This, to me, was the point of the "Ask the Devs" Forum. We ask, Devs answer.
To me, there seems to me to be a lack of the latter. Unfortunately, when a tool like the "Ask the Devs" Forum is not used, and people start feeling ingnored, they will ignore the tool itself. Soon, people will stop posting questions to that Forum, and, eventually, Petra will delete the entire Forum for lack of use.
I sincerely hope that Zig (with a little help from Cal (I feel for yah Zig, I know he is a Zoomie, but he can change
Cal - please forgive my continued digs at you being a Zoomie, but it was ground into my personality for 4 years
Your true message has been heard loud and clear, however.
Roger that. Rock 3-6 out.LOL .. this has certainly been lively to watch. And I embrace my "Zoomieness"
Your message has been heard loud and clear, however.
This is a terrible idea. Throwing more employees at a problem will not fix it. Here's why:
The reason Community Coordinators are bad at answering any question that involves the code is very simple: Community Coordinators are not coders. So to answer such a question themselves, they would have to 1.) learn how to code and then 2.) learn the specific codebase. This could take years.
So the obvious solution is to hire a trained coder specifically to answer these questions. Except they would still have to go through step 2.) learn the specific codebase, a task which takes months. And that's working full time on a well-formulated codebase. You're talking about working only 18 hours a week on a 13+ year old pile of the most confusing, obfuscated systems imaginable. It would be 6 months to a year before you would even be able to extract semi-useful or -accurate answers out of your part-time hire.
The real solution is the one that other's have suggested and Cal has been hinting at in this thread: Make each developer spend 15 minutes each day researching answers to questions from the playerbase, whether they be Ask a Dev, Feedback Forms, or random forum posts. Note that's "researching answers," not "you must completely answer at least one question every day." Some questions take more than 15 minutes (and perhaps more than one person's expertise) to figure out the answer to. I know that one of the questions that I've submitted may take several hours (and several developers) to figure out.
For further research: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Mythical_Man-Month
Petra won't be deleting the darn thing while Petra's got a question of her own languishing in there hoping for an answer (That's Petra the uo player, not Petra asking on behalf of Stratics)