throw a detective a bone

[Readydood]

It has been forever since I've posted on stratics, and never under this name. For those of you who play on Atlantic shard, you will know me as John Honda, loudmouth and super sleuth.

For years I've been playing a detective template complete with Grandmastery in Forensics, tracking, and detect hidden. Mostly for nostalgia, but also in hopes of a revamp that will spark some life back into the long forgotten and widely ignored Detective profession. Since stratics doesn't even have a profession forum for us anymore, moral is running low!

So out of curiousity.... Does anyone have any interest in being a detective? Perhaps an interest in seeing a revamp to the Forensics skill and the way it interacts with things? Below are a couple ideas that have been bouncing around in my head, so Devs and intrigued parties alike please take note! Feedback and bickering is most definitely appreciated...

ALLOW FORENSICS TO INTERACT WITH MORE THINGS: as of right now forensic evaluation may only interact with lockable containers, corpses, and players. Let's allow more things to be inspected!! One should be able to inspect a poisoned blade and determine who the poisoner is. Or maybe a door/container may be inspected and a list of those who have opened it within the last 24 hours. Perhaps a highly skilled forensicist should be able to determine the murder counts of a red by evaluating him?

GIVE THINGS INSPECTION DIFFICULTY: for those who may remember the spring cleaning quest a few years back... there was a small part in the beginning which required the use of the forensics skill. Sadly this required NO skill other then maybe Jack of all Trades. And still, bodies may be checked with some success in this manner. As of now the only targets that require a good level of skill in forensics to gain information on are player thieves.

INFORMATION OF VALUE: currently if I inspect a player all I can determine about them is if they are in thieves guild or not. Not exactly top chop information. Maybe with high skill in forensics, a detective should be able to see who their last victim was, or perhaps some clues as to what they have recently stolen? Similarly, I inspect a body and am given information about the killers and the looters of said corpse, but not the time of death? and not by what means? If this corpse is fresh, only about 30 seconds old, that means the killer could still be in the area!

TRACKING/DETECT ARE USELESS: as I mentioned earlier, I have tracking/detect hidden. And so would most detectives. But they are just about useless in today's UO. If a stealther is elf or in a ninja form, it is nearly impossible to track them. I can understand elves receiving tracking difficulty bonus, it makes sense to me. But this bonus is so high, that a dozen attempts are needed to locate them. Which boils down to almost 3 minutes. Is the person I am tracking even still logged in? It's a mystery!!!!! Now if that same elf is in animal form, forget about it. I played around with tracking a guild-mate of mine today. 85 hiding, 85 stealth in wolf form... After 20 or so tries, I had still not been successful in tracking him. This needs to be toned down quite a bit. A mage who runs around like a chicken with its head cut off in hopes of passively revealing a stealther has a better chance then a detective would.

And this of course isn't even bringing up the tracking radius. If someone is to run across my screen, by the time I hit tracking macro and click their name, they are too far away to track. And if I am chasing someone, if I stop to track them, they will get away for sure. It seems the skill is setup to disuade me from wanting to use it in the first place.

As of current, tracking is only beneficial to use against human stealthers who have no ninjitsu, or templates that do not have stealth and are afk.

So how about it? Any input?

 

[GargamelVoldo]

Yes, forensics seems so useless that i feel bad for you.. But here's an idea Devs!! Why not birth a new, fairly useful skill by merging two, fairly useless ones? Im talking about combining Forensics and Taste ID!! Think about it! And on top of that, why not put summore fun things in there? Readydood's idea of searching doors to see who has touched them recently is an awesome little nuance that i believe Devs should contemplate adding.

 

[GarthGrey]

To the OP, good post, spot on...but it's been done before. The Devs of old never listened, and the new ones don't even play the game, so they're not going to listen either. I too, like many others, have a Multi GM Detective covered in dust....sad.

 

[Warpig Inc]

Best you can hope for is the same love beggers got. Some Holloween quest that sends you about digging up graves. Some chain quest like the obsidian statue you complete a 10 times and assemble some random item with common uncommon and rare spawning. Toss in the the T map spawning of a nasties to defend their secrets.

 

[Readydood]

Yes Garth, that is a good point. One that I understand all too well. I've been around since 97' and have seen the shift in customer service from OSI to EA. But I do not mind spending some time and energy pecking at the issue and being ignored. At least this way I know I've made the effort. There is an astronomically good chance that a dev will never even see this topic.

But who knows, at the very least Stratics may put the Detective forum back [gotta have something for the thieves to eavesdrop in]. That would be a marginal victory

 

[Taylor]

/signed

 

[Konge]

But... what would you do to make these skills useful? I mean what the OP mentioned... would still make forensitcs useless... the only thing I can think of is passive bonuses, like with anatomy and eval... but that just makes templates tighter... maybe merging skills is the best idea... but to what? So... all you nay sayers... think about it like this... you want the skill made useful, but you never give a good example... have you thought that the Devs can't think of a way either?

 

[Readydood]

Hrm

I'm not sure your point Konge. Are you saying that we want the skills to be revamped and changed.. but there is no real reason to, since they will still not contribute to anything?

There are plenty of ways these new changes would be beneficial and help, but it's hard to see how unless you have played a detective before and have experience with the skills.

One of the things I really want to see happen is when you Forensic a thief in disguise you get a gump that gives you the option as to weather or not you want to blow their disguise kit. You can select yes and their kit will drop revealing their true identity, or you can select no and let them remain kitted. This would give detectives power to bargain with thieves and the ability to actually catch people openly.

I gave an example before about more information from items that were inspected. And one of them were doors/containers showing all past accessers within 24 hours. Recently I had someone get a little greedy with the community guild chest. A lot of items were taken out all at once within a short time. If I had the power to inspect the chest and see who had accessed it that day, I could of easily narrowed the culprit down and given them a much deserved lecture.

Those are a few ways in which changing the skills could have practical application. And not just make us feel less ignored

 

[Punkte]

Hey John Honda! I just saw your Tower near Vesper while I was IDOC hunting.

Anyways, I have detect hidden and tracking on my thief/idoc hunter. I like being a sleuth too and I wouldn't mind an upgrade to these skills, especially since you usually have to sacrifice something good to fit it into your template and it has limited use compared other options.

 

[Konge]

Hrm

I'm not sure your point Konge. Are you saying that we want the skills to be revamped and changed.. but there is no real reason to, since they will still not contribute to anything?

There are plenty of ways these new changes would be beneficial and help, but it's hard to see how unless you have played a detective before and have experience with the skills.

One of the things I really want to see happen is when you Forensic a thief in disguise you get a gump that gives you the option as to weather or not you want to blow their disguise kit. You can select yes and their kit will drop revealing their true identity, or you can select no and let them remain kitted. This would give detectives power to bargain with thieves and the ability to actually catch people openly.

I gave an example before about more information from items that were inspected. And one of them were doors/containers showing all past accessers within 24 hours. Recently I had someone get a little greedy with the community guild chest. A lot of items were taken out all at once within a short time. If I had the power to inspect the chest and see who had accessed it that day, I could of easily narrowed the culprit down and given them a much deserved lecture.

Those are a few ways in which changing the skills could have practical application. And not just make us feel less ignored

You're not getting the point. Nothing you're saying is actually *useful* It'll still cater to a niche crowed that already has the skill. You're turning it from a worthless skill that can do a couple things, to a worthless skill that can do a few more things. Sure a few more people might use it, but mostly it'll still be a niche RP group that already has the skill.

Sure they could revamp the skill entirely, but to do WHAT? I mean your new ideas...only thing I can see the thief thing for is maybe Siege... but the door thing not really THAT useful, and with the container inspection... how often are you going to use that? Let's say your guild chest for MONTHS and MONTHS has been full, or a few items taken out, blah blah, and after a year or so, you get a new member who takes everything, you used that aspect of the skill once in a year. If you use that aspect often, then that's sign of you needing to find a new system to help new players in your guild than a free box.

 

[Readydood]

You're not getting the point. Nothing you're saying is actually *useful* It'll still cater to a niche crowed that already has the skill.

That's what I was looking for. I get it now!

and with the container inspection... how often are you going to use that? Let's say your guild chest for MONTHS and MONTHS has been full, or a few items taken out, blah blah, and after a year or so, you get a new member who takes everything, you used that aspect of the skill once in a year.

Very valid point. At the time it seemed like a good example of need simply because it was a recent event that I could relate to. But I completely get where your going with this. Rather than brainstorm ideas for an eclectic skill, I should perhaps be putting more thought into widening the target audience of said skill. Like what the devs did for spirit speak. They took a skill with zero value [other than RP use] and made it beneficial to some classes.

The problem with this for me at least... Is I think forensics would lose something if taken out of the eclectic. Part of the fun and glamor of being a sleuth is that your in the minority. Take begging for instance, EA gave them SOMETHING [granted not much], and they are another minority skill that is rarely used. But I guess that I am asking for a bit more than begging ever did, and they aren't going to go to that effort unless the needs of the many are involved.

I'm going to put some thought into this today and report back. Thanks for widening my perspective Konge.

 

[Petra Fyde]

The forum is still there, your 'detective' skills failed you. We renamed it UO Scout because we felt that better described the range of skills it covered.

 

[Konge]

That's what I was looking for. I get it now!



Very valid point. At the time it seemed like a good example of need simply because it was a recent event that I could relate to. But I completely get where your going with this. Rather than brainstorm ideas for an eclectic skill, I should perhaps be putting more thought into widening the target audience of said skill. Like what the devs did for spirit speak. They took a skill with zero value [other than RP use] and made it beneficial to some classes.

The problem with this for me at least... Is I think forensics would lose something if taken out of the eclectic. Part of the fun and glamor of being a sleuth is that your in the minority. Take begging for instance, EA gave them SOMETHING [granted not much], and they are another minority skill that is rarely used. But I guess that I am asking for a bit more than begging ever did, and they aren't going to go to that effort unless the needs of the many are involved.

I'm going to put some thought into this today and report back. Thanks for widening my perspective Konge.

I'd love to see *useless* skills be re-vamped for more use and reward for having it... but I have no idea how to do it without crippling template construction and making it actually worth having... Actually I'd like a lot of skills that ARE useful revamped, including spell casting spells... I have ideas but like anyone will listen to them!

More on topic... I was thinking more about this today on what I would want added for other skills, and I realized the only things I can come up without making them "needed" or heaven forbid, gimp, would make them still niche skills, such as giving campers more things to play around with (Tents, ect). Tracking I kind of came up with a decent idea... but it would require other revamping... (spawn system, creature AI, ect)

For tracking, some examples were

-No inherent *range* for tracking, if they're visible and with in LoS, tracking is instant *click and poke* kind of thing, arrow tracks better or glowing footsteps or something
-For invisible targets, they don't have to be in range, but you have to be within range of their path in order to track (if they're off screen arrow, then grayed form when they're on screen, you CAN'T directly attack them, but you can reveal them better)
-Tracking gives a small damage bonus (depending on skill) how long you tracked, and is much smaller vs pvp (if it exists)
-Enemy AI revamped so that they *roam*, tracking not needed, but they don't stay in their spawn area forever, maybe make some spawns more dynamic.

-tracking combines with Forensics to track someone through identification of a corpse

for forensics, I just though we could re-vamp the Red Grey Blue system!

gm Forensics can see if someones red grey or true blue, They can track murderers faster than others with tracking, specially if they already identified them through a corpse. They also get a specific DI bonus on Reds depending on path in Justice. To get the DI bonus you actually have to track and identify the Red, more bodies found, longer tracked = bigger damage, WITHIN REASON ( no 3000% damage vs a specific red) Probably 15 SDI (affected by cap) and 50di (affected by cap) MAX, but you get rewards for killing them and bringing the head (set timer on each red, unless red kills certain number of innocents)

I dunno, might be a fun lil idea... maybe Detect hidden when used with tracking stuns or lowers defenses breifly on stealthers....

Just some ideas i brainstormed...

 

[Readydood]

The forum is still there, your 'detective' skills failed you. We renamed it UO Scout because we felt that better described the range of skills it covered.

Definitely NOT what we prefer to be called... but good to know I have another place to lurk.


Yeah Konge, some interesting ideas in there. I was thinking about it today and one thing that I feel could change to benefit the masses is how the detect hidden timer and hide timer are the same [11 seconds]. So when you reveal a stealther, they can just re-hide... and this cycle can go on forever. Perhaps when detect hidden is used to successfully reveal a stealther they suffer a hiding cooldown for 5 seconds. Or this could even be linked to forensics. If someone has forensics, it enables detect hidden to penalize the stealther with a hide cooldown before they can creep back into the shadows...

I like what you mentioned about invisible targets showing up greyed instead of the arrow. My buddy I was talking with mentioned a color coding revision for things like that. So visually, more is going on with less action.

I will post some more ideas I have had later on, right now it's bedtime!

 

[MalagAste]

You know this goes right with the fact I'm highly annoyed about the title issue...

I can't raise any of my skills on my detective over GM because if I did I'd lose the super awesome title of Grandmaster Detective that I got from all that hard work of GMing my Forensics.

I agree 100% about adding something to the skill. Tracking, Detect Hidden, Forensics, Camping, Remove Trap, They all need help...

Not sure what they could do though to boost their usefulness.

 

[Readydood]

AH! I know what you mean MalagAste. I sucked it up big time and took 120 archery over having my grandmaster detective title. Wish there was someway for EA to let you pick what skill title you wanted to show, instead of just what seems to be the highest... or in alphabetical order.

My current detective template is this:

120 archery
110 tactics
90 anatomy
90 healing
100 detect hidden
100 forensics
92 tracking [working back to 100]

This is already packed enough that I lose a lot of combat effectiveness. Basically I can do some medium pvm, and low level pvp. So I really am just stuck with taking on a thieves and assassins, which is appropriate after all. But after this recent mana patch, using specials is absolutely crippling to mana. Since it is impossible to fit something else on like Bushido/Ninjitsu/Parry/Poisoning/Stealth, without dropping tracking/detect.

I was thinking since Stealthers have to take the same combat loss for having hide/stealth/ninjitsu, but still retain a mana reduction for having 200 with ninjitsu. Perhaps Forensics could be included in the skills that contribute to mana reduction. That would surely be more encouraging for a player to take forensics. Granted not a huge one, but we are getting closer. Perhaps if Forensics was given a spellbook/skillset like ninjitsu has. So you could use forensics the skill to investigate items like you currently do. But then have a forensics book that would give you mana costing moves and abilities. This system would function just like bushido and ninjitsu, as far as being un-interuptable, and casting while moving. A few I was thinking of could be:

* a move that will knock people out of whatever form they are in, similar to using dismount on someone in llama form, or the mystic spell... only usable on whatever weapon.

* a move that gives you a temporary speed bonus on foot allowing you to close the distance between a fleeing criminal, or to escape a dismount by an assassin. The boost time would be very short and there would be a cooldown so as to not move at mounted speed continuously.

* a move that would function as incognito or a disguise kit, allowing the detective to go undercover. the move would function as a form in that it isn't on a timer and you must use it again to go back to being you. however if you deal any damage/commit negative acts [casting curse, stealing, snooping] on another player, your cover will be blown. While in this form you will also not be allowed to open trade windows with players.

just a few ideas... i think this would spice up the forensics system a lot. and make it worthwhile for people to use. but definitely needs some fine tuning.

 

[Lamorak]

A few nights ago, I wrote a message in the 'ask the devs' section and it hasn't been posted yet. I still wanted to hear what the players thought about it, so I am going to post it here........

Last night a guild member and myself took a trip to Yew. We were discussing detective work and forensics which led to the subject of our journey. Back around Christmas, Edwin and the donations for the poor of Yew disappeared. I don't remember if there was any sort of follow up on this, but a small party recently discovered his remains along with the empty donation box. I had attempted to use the forensic skill at an earlier time, hoping to get some information on his killer. With 20 points of JOAT skill, I wasn't able to gather any information. My companion however was a GM detective, and we were hopeful that he may have better results. No such luck. Yes, there was an orc helm and weapon nearby, so it's seemed like a pretty cut and dry case; ho red herrings or anything. We were still anticipating the possibility that the skill would reveal even the obvious. This is when we agreed that the devs had passed up a golden opportunity to add a whole new level of intrigue to the game. And thereafter followed an idea that we thought might work to both make the forensic skill attractive to players as well as adding a greater level of storytelling detail.

What if you could take a normal item in game, such as a bottle, a scroll, a item of clothing and relabel it with a tag that also allows you to gather more information from it depending on your forensic skill? Say for example, that a tinker can either copy an item(and recolor it) or retag an existing item with a label tool that functions like a sort of invisible book that other players cannot see once it's crafted; where the title is the new label that will be applied to the item, and the limited(10?) pages are the details that will be revealed at certain designated levels of skill. So, if I wanted to make a faded scroll such that a novice of 20 skill could hardly make out, but an GM could make out in its entirety, I would take a normal scroll, use the tool on it. I would then change the title to 'a faded scroll." I would designate 0 skill with the text "The scroll is too faded to interpret"; at 20 skill the text would read "When you reach...............remember.............conceals........the passage." And at GM skill, the entire text would be readable. Imagine laying out a crime scene for players to investigate where they find a potion bottle labeled as a "Rheumatic remedy take 3 times daily after meals" A player of lesser forensic skill examines the bottle and notices a small content of liquid. Another player of mid level skill detects an almond-like aroma. The highly skilled investigator will be able to reveal the contents containing a portion of cyanide. Wouldn't this be an interesting addition for certain EM events or player hosted scenarios.

But, consider the other possibilities. Turn a colorable goblet into a 1st place trophy for the best monster hunter in your guild's special PVM event. Restyle a simple ring into a "Heirloom family signet" that reveals a hidden runic script when closely inspected with the forensic skill, or add a bit of color to your veteran warrior by giving him a "battered shield" and "bloodstained surcoat". Or you can furnish your well stocked apothecary with strangely labeled bottles of "lich ichor" and "eye of newt." The possibilities are endless for creating provocative tableaus that tell a story and provide greater levels of detail; providing a greater reward for those who develop the forensic skill.

If the developers are concerned about the possibility of these items being used to scam other players, then it could display "Suspicious Trade Item" in the trade window, on a vendor, or just prohibit any item exchange by the recipient for the relabeled item.

 

[GarthGrey]

There's no reason whatsoever for there to be 3 "No" answers...

 

[Chad Sexington]

AH! I know what you mean MalagAste. I sucked it up big time and took 120 archery over having my grandmaster detective title. Wish there was someway for EA to let you pick what skill title you wanted to show, instead of just what seems to be the highest... or in alphabetical order.

120 archery
110 tactics
90 anatomy
90 healing
100 detect hidden
100 forensics
92 tracking [working back to 100]

You could always put on a Hunter's Headdress and drop tactics to gm. The titles only count for real skill.

100 Archery
100 Tactics
100 Anatomy
100 Healing
100 Detect
100 Tracking
100 Forensics

 

[Readydood]

There's no reason whatsoever for there to be 3 "No" answers...

Hell, I'm surprised we've ONLY got 5.

But then again... I DID admit I was John Honda.

Thanks to Lamorak for posting those ideas. I gotta say right now, that I believe Lamorak is introducing this tool idea NOT JUST for forensics, but for the general health of RP. The ability to add tags for forensicists would just be one facet. I do like the idea quite a bit, if not for us, then for the depth and creativity it would offer to the RP community for their events.

You could always put on a Hunter's Headdress and drop tactics to gm. The titles only count for real skill.

I could most definitely do that. But I wear a spirit of the totem, which is infinitely sexier fashion in my opinion. And even still wouldn't I have to drop tracking and tactics to 99.9?

 

[Tom_Builder]

I could most definitely do that. But I wear a spirit of the totem, which is infinitely sexier fashion in my opinion. And even still wouldn't I have to drop tracking and tactics to 99.9?

No, if the skills are the same you can lock them and set the skill you want the title for up.

 

[Bel'ni]

Glad someone still cares for my old detective class.

I stopped playing years ago, still come back once in a while to check if anything has changed. So far, i see that nothing has changed.

Bel'ni
Master Detective
Founder of the Britania Police Department
Playing from 1997-2003 (Europa Shard)

 

[Lamorak]

I just thought of another use for the tags I mentioned earlier. In decorating their homes, players will use various items to construct another object; a piano made from black dyed cloaks and a chess board, or a bush made from green dyed cotton and reagents, or a garden lattice made from fighting staffs. Wouldn't it be nice if those constructed objects displayed a more appropriate label, with the option of allowing others to use forensics(at 0 skill level of course) to read your description of what it was originally made from? Think of how much fun you can have coming up with the perfect gift for a wedding, Christmas, or any other occassion. The possibilities are endless.

 

[Touzoko]

good post for forensics! It needs some attention. It might also color the revealed thief gray, or at least allow the detective to attack gim/her, regardless of their location. After all; they ARE a law officer, and have identified this person as a known and assumedly practicing thief.

 

[Taylor]

FE should remove disguise kits. Currently, it doesn't appear to.

 

[Zyon Rockler]

How about making it so you can use the skill forensics on the corpse of any dead spawn or player and be able to recover items based on your skill?

For example: A warrior kills a daemon and you come up on the corpse and open it and you see a few items, a scroll, a katana, and a bow. You use forensics and it tells you that the daemon was killed by a strike to the head and inside the corpse appears the gold and any items that might have been looted and depending on skill the chance to receive an artifact in the loot drop, if the person who killed it received one.

Kind of like reliving the best part over again. In a way the skill would double the gp of anything you killed and double your chances at artifacts, plus you would know what killed the creature and with tracking you could track them.

 

[Espilce]

Idea for the Forensic Evaluation skill
Head Trophies: It would be cool if upon killing a murderer you could cut off their head and make it into a trophy or plaque giving details of the death: time of death, insurance earned, how said person died, by whom. Set it up so you need to use both the Forensic Evaluation skill (GM’d of course) and a Taxidermy kit (Carpenter skill). Anybody could cut off the head but put a timer on it. Give an option to make either a plaque or a trophy (east or south facing) that actually looks like the head of the murderer.

 

[Snakeman]

No, just lock the others & keep the one Up you want pointed up is all. And now with the new titles nemu etc, you can pick & choose what title you want to wear over your head

 

[mikni]

good post for forensics! It needs some attention. It might also color the revealed thief gray

This would be fantastic!
I would make a detective the instant it went live. Of course a detective should be able to hunt down thieves and disrupt their "business".

 

[Ru TnT]

TRACKING/DETECT ARE USELESS: as I mentioned earlier, I have tracking/detect hidden. And so would most detectives. But they are just about useless in today's UO. If a stealther is elf or in a ninja form, it is nearly impossible to track them. I can understand elves receiving tracking difficulty bonus, it makes sense to me. But this bonus is so high, that a dozen attempts are needed to locate them. Which boils down to almost 3 minutes. Is the person I am tracking even still logged in? It's a mystery!!!!! Now if that same elf is in animal form, forget about it. I played around with tracking a guild-mate of mine today. 85 hiding, 85 stealth in wolf form... After 20 or so tries, I had still not been successful in tracking him. This needs to be toned down quite a bit. A mage who runs around like a chicken with its head cut off in hopes of passively revealing a stealther has a better chance then a detective would.

And this of course isn't even bringing up the tracking radius. If someone is to run across my screen, by the time I hit tracking macro and click their name, they are too far away to track. And if I am chasing someone, if I stop to track them, they will get away for sure. It seems the skill is setup to disuade me from wanting to use it in the first place.

As of current, tracking is only beneficial to use against human stealthers who have no ninjitsu, or templates that do not have stealth and are afk.

So how about it? Any input?

Tracking/Detect are fine as they are, which is far from useless. If they are not working for you, I can only imagine that it is because you do not know how they work. Not trying to be rude, but I have not had any problems with tracking/detect, I've been running both skills for the last 4+ years. Most of the buff track/detect or nerf hide/stealth posts I've seen are started by people that didn't have the patience to learn how to use those skills...

 

[AtlanticVlad]

Hasn't tracking been broken for years...? meaning people really only need like 27 or something in it to have it function the same it does at gm? I could be off on the number but it was ridiculously low.

But I'd love for detective revamp I like alot of these ideas hope we see something come of this thread.

 

[Viper09]

Hasn't tracking been broken for years...? meaning people really only need like 27 or something in it to have it function the same it does at gm? I could be off on the number but it was ridiculously low.

But I'd love for detective revamp I like alot of these ideas hope we see something come of this thread.

Tracking players doesn't require that much tracking. However, if players you're trying to track have hiding/stealth, I don't think tracking alone at 27 will let you target them.

Now tracking monsters, that may be skill based.

 

[Mark_Mythic]

I'm following this thread, I'm just not promising anything at this time.

 

[Taylor]

I'm following this thread, I'm just not promising anything at this time.

It's a start! And bump re: forensics spellbook.

 

[Hildebrand]

Detective can have a whole revamp if they come out with another expansion.. maybe with the Pirate Expansion.
-Put a whole bunch of new quests that would include sunken ships that would yield clues as to the cause (giant squid, other pirate NPC's, or even PvP pirates). Therefore you can further investigate and find them.
-Maybe do something with MIB and relate detectives with that for better clues to the loot (or stranded survivor) in another location. Use the Wisp Guardian and his chest idea.... the clue is blessed and has a timer (or was that the medusa egg that had a timer).

*****Speaking of Medusa... the serpent nests should've let Detectives be able to find the eggs without flute. That's an idea! Bard has better chance of using flute with success, detective could've used forensics to peep into the nests for chance of success of egg. Hey.. exiting mechanics.

-Incorporate detective with treasure hunter... for chance to find a clue within the chest to a second random location that requires a detective to track it down. (you're in Britannia, leads you to a tunnel, leads you to Lost Lands or something).
-Some quests can be short and some can take hours. Depends on how long the timer on the "clue" lasts.

Forensics, Detect hidden, Tracking, & lockpicking (& perhaps Eval Intel & Anatomy?) can enhance each other somehow maybe like how bards work... need all skills to maximize a certain benefit or use of ... NEW DETECTIVE ITEM: a magnifying glass.. that you must hold. Like the recent lantern of spirituality... shows you areas of, er, criminal activity as you search around.

Sure... devs would need to put in maybe 50 quest chains to keep us happy (for a little while), but that would be fun!
Rewards can range from certain loot to TITLES. Each quest lets you change your overhead title. Heck, maybe be able to stack all the title.... Detective of the Abyss, Investigator of Britain. You get the point.

All these things would NOT need new land mass. Many ppl in these forums agree that we don't need more landmass, just something to revitalize existing old areas and something to make old skills useful.

Just some random thoughts that popped in my head.

 

[Touzoko]

It's a start! And bump re: forensics spellbook.

*trembles*
what an idea!!!! Special skills and abilities for detectives! That might make some new interest in detectives and thieves- a sort of faction thing outside of factions

 

[Nexus]

Sorry dude your skills became useless the moment Thieves went from being the soft white underbelly of Felucca to people picking up litter in dungeons. Tell you what I'll support a Detective Revamp, if you support a total revamp to make Stealing from Players more profitable and useful again on Production Shards.

 

[Taylor]

Tell you what I'll support a Detective Revamp, if you support a total revamp to make Stealing from Players more profitable and useful again on Production Shards.

This seems reasonable. ^

In many ways, prodo shard thieves have gone the way of the detective.

 

[Nexus]

Detective can have a whole revamp if they come out with another expansion.. maybe with the Pirate Expansion.
-Put a whole bunch of new quests that would include sunken ships that would yield clues as to the cause (giant squid, other pirate NPC's, or even PvP pirates). Therefore you can further investigate and find them.
-Maybe do something with MIB and relate detectives with that for better clues to the loot (or stranded survivor) in another location. Use the Wisp Guardian and his chest idea.... the clue is blessed and has a timer (or was that the medusa egg that had a timer).

*****Speaking of Medusa... the serpent nests should've let Detectives be able to find the eggs without flute. That's an idea! Bard has better chance of using flute with success, detective could've used forensics to peep into the nests for chance of success of egg. Hey.. exiting mechanics.

-Incorporate detective with treasure hunter... for chance to find a clue within the chest to a second random location that requires a detective to track it down. (you're in Britannia, leads you to a tunnel, leads you to Lost Lands or something).
-Some quests can be short and some can take hours. Depends on how long the timer on the "clue" lasts.

Forensics, Detect hidden, Tracking, & lockpicking (& perhaps Eval Intel & Anatomy?) can enhance each other somehow maybe like how bards work... need all skills to maximize a certain benefit or use of ... NEW DETECTIVE ITEM: a magnifying glass.. that you must hold. Like the recent lantern of spirituality... shows you areas of, er, criminal activity as you search around.

Sure... devs would need to put in maybe 50 quest chains to keep us happy (for a little while), but that would be fun!
Rewards can range from certain loot to TITLES. Each quest lets you change your overhead title. Heck, maybe be able to stack all the title.... Detective of the Abyss, Investigator of Britain. You get the point.

All these things would NOT need new land mass. Many ppl in these forums agree that we don't need more landmass, just something to revitalize existing old areas and something to make old skills useful.

Just some random thoughts that popped in my head.

That is pretty much the wrong way to try and fix things. It's what they did with Stealables off Monsters, and stealable arties for thieves. Once you have collected an item, unless you are a merchant getting things to sell, what's the point? What's going to happen after the detectives run the quests 2-3 times? They won't be continually evolving quests where locations and circumstance is totally random every time. You just suggested a Band-Aid for the problem, not a solution.

Now if they really sat down and revamped Thieves, my suggestion is Insurance only prevent loss on Death not from Theft, (Insuring your car won't protect it from thieves will it?) then make it so a Thief becomes "Grey" to his victim, and only his victim as a chance when making a successful steal until his next death and Bam! You have a use for Detectives, tracking down an finding these thieves. I also promise if they did this it would help with a lot of the "gimp" aspect in PvP these days. You won't see people with multiple sets of jewels in their pack, or half a dozen bows. People will have to find a purpose and stick to it, instead of jeweling out 2-3 different templates and switching between them with UOA hotkeys.

 

[Llewen]

The Devs of old never listened, and the new ones don't even play the game, so they're not going to listen either.

You're wrong. This current dev team is listening like no dev team I've ever have had experience with. The devs have a lot on their plate but don't be surprised if at least some of what is in the op makes it on to their to do list.

 

[Ozymandies]

I have had a few ideas for detectives over the years.

1) Forensics should drop the thief disguise. Furthermore, the chance to steal should be greatly reduced when not in disguise.

2) Forensics plus Begging allows interrogation of npc's. Allows for gathering of evidence.

3) Evidence also found in the dungeon treasure chests, which have not been updated in like, forever. Use forensics on the evidence to get a flag: "Examined by so-and-so"

4) Turn in evidence at Trinsic jail or some such place to get stuffs or a Warrant of Arrest with sextant coordinates. Go to the coordinates, use detect hidden and brigands, red mages, various nasties spawn.

5) Use forensics on a corpse in Fel, get name of murderer. Go to guards to turn in the name of murderer, red suffers additional penalties upon death for every murder so reported.

Stuff like that. I was never sure if there was a demand for this sort of thing, as everything has been "kill the champ, get the arty" since AoS.

Thx for listening.

OZ

 

[Llewen]

I have had a few ideas for detectives over the years.

All great ideas.

 

[Hildebrand]

That is pretty much the wrong way to try and fix things. It's what they did with Stealables off Monsters, and stealable arties for thieves. Once you have collected an item, unless you are a merchant getting things to sell, what's the point? What's going to happen after the detectives run the quests 2-3 times? They won't be continually evolving quests where locations and circumstance is totally random every time. You just suggested a Band-Aid for the problem, not a solution.

If there were incentives to re-take quests, I would. Examples; How about SOT drops, imbuing ingredients, etc. Or virtue increase, temp stat increase, temp skill increase = for completing certain quests once a week (if you stone off forensics you lose the benefits).
As of now... there is ABSOLUTELY NO REASON/INCENTIVE for a newbie to even try taking up forensics. There should be a New Haven quest giver and be given some blessed item for hitting 50... like tracking skill now does. (Tracking gave me some blessed item.. i forgot which item, buy hey, it was a start). Then, instead of leaving the newbie hanging... continue with some quests for them.

Long term? Let's see. (I'm not picking on anyone, just encouraging some thought) You don't think incorporating Detectives into Medusa key gathering (serpent nests) is long term if it INCREASED success chance? How about gathering keys for all peerless via detective if you had increased success chance?
Treasure hunters that bring a detective along for further adventure... sounds like a pretty good long term thing to me.

Now if they really sat down and revamped Thieves, my suggestion is Insurance only prevent loss on Death not from Theft, (Insuring your car won't protect it from thieves will it?) then make it so a Thief becomes "Grey" to his victim, and only his victim as a chance when making a successful steal until his next death and Bam! You have a use for Detectives, tracking down an finding these thieves. I also promise if they did this it would help with a lot of the "gimp" aspect in PvP these days. You won't see people with multiple sets of jewels in their pack, or half a dozen bows. People will have to find a purpose and stick to it, instead of jeweling out 2-3 different templates and switching between them with UOA hotkeys.

I don't see them doing that in Tram. I guess you're talking about Fel only?
One thing I don't get is, WHY the balms and lotions that a thief steals are INSURABLE?? Not that a thief can get close to anyone without getting passively detected, lol.

 

[SchezwanBeefy]

I love this thread.

 

[Hildebrand]

Lets take KEY GATHERING a bit further...
To encourage someone to NOT STONE OFF forensics and other related skill(s), once the detective gathers his keys for Medusa, let's say, he would go into Medusa's lair. What does he do in there? He might be at a disadvantage as to fighting her since he sacrifices some PvM skills for lowly detective skills, no?
- What if he was able to use detect hidden for some actually hidden artifacts or chests in the lair? If he has lock picking, all the better. Disarm trap? Even better. Sounds like a Tomb Raider!
- What if he was able to use forensics on the statues and have a chance to disable them prior to them coming to life? I might want a detective on my team.
- What if he was able to somehow use forensics + tracking + anatomy on Medusa to debuff her (like disco?).
- What if forensics + eval intel would allow you a chance to "riddle" or "befuddle" her so she falls into a sleep effect or peace effect (use same mechanics, no need to create NEW effects, just change the name).

What's the ultimate Detective template?
100 Forensic Eval
100 Detect Hidden
100 Tracking
100 Detect Trap
100 Lock picking
100 Anatomy
120 wrestling/weapon/magery
Ouch... doesn't leave any room for the traditional skills does it.

Some questions would have to be answered.
-How does he defend himself and how does he effectively attack?
-How do we combine some skills to complement each other? Like should Forensics + tracking = something more powerful?
-I think of Detectives as stealthy spies too. Since they stealthily track down people. How do we incorporate that?

Just ideas to hash around.
***hmm** Tomb Raider .. I like that.

 

[Alistor]

Idk if this has been stated yet, but in order to track someone in ninja (animal) form, you need to track for Animals, not players.

A polymorphed player must be tracked as a Monster.

 

[retrorider]

...The Devs of old never listened, and the new ones don't even play the game...

I have to say that you could not be more wrong on one point. The new Dev's PLAY this game... constantly and they are out for blood when they play!

It doesn't mean they will listen any more or less.

 

[Hildebrand]

I want a detective to guide my warrior to track down and hunt some brigand criminal (track him to a camp somewhere)... detective would need 4 of the above skills in order to get "there", and my warror or mage (and guild) would protect and apprehend.

 

[MalagAste]

I'm really liking some of these ideas.

I've had GM forensics for a very long time with zero usefulness...

Camping as well needs a bit of love.

I kinda like the special brigand spawn idea.

 

[Espilce]

An idea for the Forensic Evaluation skill:

Improve trophy making.
Right now only 7 animals (orc, gorilla, troll, brown bear, polar bear, great heart, and certain fish) can be turned into trophies. If you evaluate them you get the message 'You review the corpse and find it worth of a trophy'.
But you don't need forensic evaluation to actually make the trophy. The value of these trophies is less then the price of the taxidermy kit used to make them, because they are too easy to make.

How about:
In order to make a trophy out of a taxidermy kit; you first need to evaluate it.
Make it a low percentage that any animal/monster is worthy of a trophy.
Give us lots more monsters to make trophies out of with Taxidermy Kit.
The harder/rarer/cooler the monster the lower the percentage should be and the higher your forensic evaluate skill should be.

Exceptional trophies idea:
'You review the corpse and find it worth of an exceptional trophy'.
Taxidermy kits would make these into a bigger statue like trophy.
Maybe make them dyeable, or have forensic evaluation data on the mouse over: killed by, date, weight.
Make the percentage to find exceptional trophy corpses extremely rare!
Must have GM Skill to find and make exceptional trophies.