Just thinking out loud

[Ginsu's]

Just thinking out loud and don’t want to start an argument.
But before I started here I played LS.
I sat at Brit bank for hours and hours B.S.ing with others.
Because I had the best of everything UO could give.
I never thought I would come here,
Because if I died I lost my things I worked so hard to get.
So for this reason I sat at LS - Brit bank.
Now!!! oneday my friend and I was board so we decided to come to siege.

Now I keep reading how Siege players, wants more people to play here.
Sometimes we get stuck in a rut, and we can’t see what might be right in front of us.

I think this shard needs to bring insurance to it.
But since it is Siege there should be a down side to insurance.
Like 10k for each item.
We kind of have insurance here all ready,
because I keep reading about players saying
hay so and so sell my things back to me.

I remember when I started here. I worked a hold week killing mongbat to save up to get better armor and weapon and someone killed me and took my armor. So back to killing mongbats again. Ya I hear some of you laughing.

If you want more people to play here.
There needs to be a little give and take.
Give them something they want like insurance
And in return you get more player to play with or to PK

Remember don’t want to start an argument
Just something to think about

 

[Damien Softstep]

Just thinking out loud and don’t want to start an argument.
But before I started here I played LS.
I sat at Brit bank for hours and hours B.S.ing with others.
Because I had the best of everything UO could give.
I never thought I would come here,
Because if I died I lost my things I worked so hard to get.
So for this reason I sat at LS - Brit bank.
Now!!! oneday my friend and I was board so we decided to come to siege.

Now I keep reading how Siege players, wants more people to play here.
Sometimes we get stuck in a rut, and we can’t see what might be right in front of us.

I think this shard needs to bring insurance to it.
But since it is Siege there should be a down side to insurance.
Like 10k for each item.
We kind of have insurance here all ready,
because I keep reading about players saying
hay so and so sell my things back to me.

I remember when I started here. I worked a hold week killing mongbat to save up to get better armor and weapon and someone killed me and took my armor. So back to killing mongbats again. Ya I hear some of you laughing.

If you want more people to play here.
There needs to be a little give and take.
Give them something they want like insurance
And in return you get more player to play with or to PK

Remember don’t want to start an argument
Just something to think about

Insurance comes to SP i quit UO...

 

[FrejaSP]

Insurance is not the way to go. UO was born without Insurance and Siege should stay that way.

We had fighted had to get rid of some blessed items, that was a pain here. Faction items don't belong on Siege, they have to go too.

As a crafter, you should know, you need customers and Insurance will ruin your business just like Factions items do.

What Siege need is more Crafters, better drop of crafting resources and some anti PK's to keep the PK's busy and protect the crafters and farmers.

There need to be more shops selling 5x 70 resist set with LRC, Luck or what the customers need to replace their lost suit.

We may not all be able to affort running in upper suits but we can now craft useful suits.

If we now could get rid of Faction items, killing the one who can affort upper suits would be worth it as the killer could use the items.

Siege is most fun if the PvP'ers can fight the whole day, the farmers can sell their stuff to crafters and PvP'ers and the crafters can get needed resources and sell their stuff.

Insured items are the last thing we need.

You will find the old Siege Spirit in this old histories http://www.pusateri.org/blood/pictures.htm
Also my old history page may show some of what Siege is about for the not so hardcore PvP'ers on Siege http://frejasp.dk/TDO_Forum/viewforum.php?f=6

Items changes hand, that's too is a part of Siege.

 

[Tiberius]

Short of reverting this shard back to pre-aos rules I am tempted to agree with the OP. Having played prodo for the first time since 99 I can see how the game really is designed around the concept of insurance. In ways the game is much better; the diversity of templates, crafting, and pvm is much more than it was back in 99. The crazy level of pvp that existed back in those days does not exist...HERE; because of no insurance. That crazy level of pvp is alive and well elsewhere. Why? because pvpers, being what they are, like to min/max thier crap and have always done so. We do it here but once the first couple people drop it's all over because of the expense to replace VITAL needed items to pvp. That or we all run gimp templates that really may be good for survival and low risk kills ( see stealth and taming) that make for less fun and engaging pvp. This is not the case on the other servers where the nice min/maxed crap is not lost; fights abound.

The fact we have no trammel and all facets have fel rules is a HUGE break away from prodo as it is. It affects how you train, how you make gold, and makes some of the more lucrative areas of the game (see SA) more dangerous. For me, the more I think about it, the point of siege was never the abiulty to take someones armour; I generally always left people's armour as a point of honor pre-aos. The things I took back then? I can still take now..gold, potions, regs, bandages, etc. the thing that made siege great for me was the huge figths and nons top action we used to have. It got me hooked on pvp and this server.

Quite simply if you want to repopulate siege, you add jacked up insurance prices, you dbl or triple daily rot caps, and greatly shorten the amount of time between said gains. This is the fix people. Flame me all you want but siege never was properly accounted for when this game changed over to aos.

It is either the above fix or a revert to pre-aos rules which would thrill me but IS NOT GOING TO HAPPEN. I have accepted that. The rest of us need to accept it and make a push for the above mentioned fixes. It is either that or
watch the shard die a slow death.

Again I think the OP is deadon.

 

[Damien Softstep]

Short of reverting this shard back to pre-aos rules I am tempted to agree with the OP. Having played prodo for the first time since 99 I can see how the game really is designed around the concept of insurance. In ways the game is much better; the diversity of templates, crafting, and pvm is much more than it was back in 99. The crazy level of pvp that existed back in those days does not exist...HERE; because of no insurance. That crazy level of pvp is alive and well elsewhere. Why? because pvpers, being what they are, like to min/max thier crap and have always done so. We do it here but once the first couple people drop it's all over because of the expense to replace VITAL needed items to pvp. That or we all run gimp templates that really may be good for survival and low risk kills ( see stealth and taming) that make for less fun and engaging pvp. This is not the case on the other servers where the nice min/maxed crap is not lost; fights abound.

The fact we have no trammel and all facets have fel rules is a HUGE break away from prodo as it is. It affects how you train, how you make gold, and makes some of the more lucrative areas of the game (see SA) more dangerous. For me, the more I think about it, the point of siege was never the abiulty to take someones armour; I generally always left people's armour as a point of honor pre-aos. The things I took back then? I can still take now..gold, potions, regs, bandages, etc. the thing that made siege great for me was the huge figths and nons top action we used to have. It got me hooked on pvp and this server.

Quite simply if you want to repopulate siege, you add jacked up insurance prices, you dbl or triple daily rot caps, and greatly shorten the amount of time between said gains. This is the fix people. Flame me all you want but siege never was properly accounted for when this game changed over to aos.

It is either the above fix or a revert to pre-aos rules which would thrill me but IS NOT GOING TO HAPPEN. I have accepted that. The rest of us need to accept it and make a push for the above mentioned fixes. It is either that or
watch the shard die a slow death.

Again I think the OP is deadon.

Im speechless let SP die then...it would be 10x better than turning it into ANOTHER production shard...

I got a few fixes that would make people run back to SP...

1.Get rid of faction arties
2.Get rid of blessed items
3.Get rid of bolas and dismount abilities
4.Shorten ROT
5.get rid of greater dragons

Never gonna happen but it would help 200%...but turning SP into ANOTHER production server is NOT the solution...you guys want production theres bunches of them goodbye...

 

[Tiberius]

FEL rules everywhere is a huge departure from a prodo shard; I went in SA tonight and it was crammed with people farming Imbue ingreds; Great, wonderful you think, pk heaven except Damn it I can't attack anyone because its Tram rules.

TRAM is what makes prodo, prodo. Not insurance. Tram existed way before insurance. I was here when AOS was introduced and was amoung those cryign loudly about beign able to bless anthing. This misguided leap to judgement by the ENTIRE population at the time resulted in us not evolving ina healthy manner with the rest of the game. This whole misguided senitment stemmed from the glut of naked dexers with faction blessed magic spears. The problem was further exacerbated by the fact that AOS left crafters out in the cold; it took them 6 years to fix that with imbuing. What you must understand is that imbuing is not a fix for siege, imbuing isa fix for crafting within the mainstream UO system. Smiths, gathers, tailors, and imbuers are raking in gold hand over fist on atlantic much as I did here; thier play style is viable.

The shard needs to evolve or slowly more and mroe will leave for the various reasons we all leave but they won't be replaced because siege, as it sits, is a damn hard sell to the average UO player; the constituancy that you would be apealign to to make a move here.

I can sell "would'nt it be cool to be able to pk people in SA, Luna, Tokuno, Have an economy not wrecked by transfer duping, and have a vibrate close knit player community (getting smaller by the month atm tho)."

I can't sell "it takes three months to build your char, everyone and thier brother runs hide stealth, and if you really want to play some of the cooler templates int he game, be prepared to drop the equivalent of 7-8 mil gold on your home shard each time ya die".

These are the facts; we need to wake up, get our heads out of our collective asses, and compromise a little.

 

[Uvtha]

No way! This is the closest this shard has been to balanced in a long time. If they just made regular gems and some other imbuing stuff easier to get and a few other tweaks we would be doing great.

Right now rather than paying 10k per item you lose, you just go buy or make a new one, which with imbuing isn't that difficult. You can make very good stuff even without any relic frags. Everyone wins.

Insurance ruins everything.

 

[Tiberius]

No way! This is the closest this shard has been to balanced in a long time. If they just made regular gems and some other imbuing stuff easier to get and a few other tweaks we would be doing great.

Right now rather than paying 10k per item you lose, you just go buy or make a new one, which with imbuing isn't that difficult. You can make very good stuff even without any relic frags. Everyone wins.

Insurance ruins everything.

Yea it sure seems to be working out for us don't it? Nons top action all day, you can't doa spawn w/o being raided, and if you are looking to raid one you will find one within 10 minutes...

 

[Damien Softstep]

FEL rules everywhere is a huge departure from a prodo shard; I went in SA tonight and it was crammed with people farming Imbue ingreds; Great, wonderful you think, pk heaven except Damn it I can't attack anyone because its Tram rules.

TRAM is what makes prodo, prodo. Not insurance. Tram existed way before insurance. I was here when AOS was introduced and was amoung those cryign loudly about beign able to bless anthing. This misguided leap to judgement by the ENTIRE population at the time resulted in us not evolving ina healthy manner with the rest of the game. This whole misguided senitment stemmed from the glut of naked dexers with faction blessed magic spears. The problem was further exacerbated by the fact that AOS left crafters out in the cold; it took them 6 years to fix that with imbuing. What you must understand is that imbuing is not a fix for siege, imbuing isa fix for crafting within the mainstream UO system. Smiths, gathers, tailors, and imbuers are raking in gold hand over fist on atlantic much as I did here; thier play style is viable.

The shard needs to evolve or slowly more and mroe will leave for the various reasons we all leave but they won't be replaced because siege, as it sits, is a damn hard sell to the average UO player; the constituancy that you would be apealign to to make a move here.

I can sell "would'nt it be cool to be able to pk people in SA, Luna, Tokuno, Have an economy not wrecked by transfer duping, and have a vibrate close knit player community (getting smaller by the month atm tho)."

I can't sell "it takes three months to build your char, everyone and thier brother runs hide stealth, and if you really want to play some of the cooler templates int he game, be prepared to drop the equivalent of 7-8 mil gold on your home shard each time ya die".

These are the facts; we need to wake up, get our heads out of our collective asses, and compromise a little.

See my previous post i wrote it after you posted this...imbuing items are the new thing...theres no reason JSV TNT or SP! should be running hide or stelath when there the three biggest pvp guilds on the server but someone like me who has a one man guild needs hide/stealth becuase of dismount ganks...remember when williams X use to solo pvp with his necro and womp ass?Now its dismount greater dragon death...do my things and sp gets fixed it allows for solo pvpers and makes ppl use some skill again...TOO MANY GIMP ITEMS IN THE GAME NOW...faction runes...bolas...greater dragons...dismount specials...blessed items...

 

[Tiberius]

See my previous post i wrote it after you posted this...imbuing items are the new thing...theres no reason JSV TNT or SP! should be running hide or stelath when there the three biggest pvp guilds on the server but someone like me who has a one man guild needs hide/stealth becuase of dismount ganks...remember when williams X use to solo pvp with his necro and womp ass?Now its dismount greater dragon death...do my things and sp gets fixed it allows for solo pvpers and makes ppl use some skill again...TOO MANY GIMP ITEMS IN THE GAME NOW...faction runes...bolas...greater dragons...dismount specials...blessed items...

I agree all these things would help but as you said it is not going to happen; my suggestions are easily done and quite hoesntly now that I have better vantage point should have been done at the onset of AOS on this server.

 

[Damien Softstep]

Yea it sure seems to be working out for us don't it? Nons top action all day, you can't doa spawn w/o being raided, and if you are looking to raid one you will find one within 10 minutes...

Over half this population now is from production shards the past 5 years which means there trammy to begin with siege has been around since 1999...there only going back to what theyve known...there are very few true sp people on this server now to respect this server...its a new grade of player...most of the true sp people went to free servers with pub 16 ruleset...

 

[Damien Softstep]

I agree all these things would help but as you said it is not going to happen; my suggestions are easily done and quite hoesntly now that I have better vantage point should have been done at the onset of AOS on this server.

Like i said before there numerous production servers this server is suppose to be different...but sadly alot of production garbage spewed into sp like it always has and ruined it even worse...do my ideas and it would be real easy too and keep the server unique instead of turning it into another production server...

 

[Tiberius]

Over half this population now is from production shards the past 5 years which means there trammy to begin with siege has been around since 1999...there only going back to what theyve known...there are very few true sp people on this server now to respect this server...its a new grade of player...most of the true sp people went to free servers with pub 16 ruleset...

Only goes to prove my point man; the people we are tryign to attract who enjoy the AOS system are, for the most part, not attracted to playing that system in a broken manner (no insurance). There is still pvp in this game, just not here. it's time we started asking the hard questions..Why?

 

[Damien Softstep]

Only goes to prove my point man; the people we are tryign to attract who enjoy the AOS system are, for the most part, not attracted to playing that system in a broken manner (no insurance). There is still pvp in this game, just not here. it's time we started asking the hard questions..Why?

The same reason 12 million people play WoW...people dont wanna loose ****...we SPers are a special breed of player...

The same reason reason people buy hybrids...ill keep my chevelle...

Or better yet ill ask a question to you...why is it that siege has been around since 1999 but now after 11 years production people say hey im going to go play sp...how come those people didnt come over here in 1999 when it first started?That right there is the answer to your question...

Or how about the same reason ppl all play blues now or deleted there red character to make a blue account it all goes in the pot of production characteristics...

I fought for 2 years to get that damn PBD fixed on SP...ill fight another 5 years to keep this place unique...

This is a post by a player that has been playing SP for the last 5 years?

http://vboards.stratics.com/showpost.php?p=1603854&postcount=10

It broke my heart needless to say...

Tram AND insurance are prodo...

Take a look at this poll i conducted...

http://vboards.stratics.com/poll.php?do=showresults&pollid=746

Now add up the SP years in the Yes and then the No...i see a lot of old school vets in the No votes...the reason i made that poll wasnt for the fact if the books was useful it was the fact that they was blessed and shouldnt be on SP...as a lot of people commented "the books are worthless so i dont care" bull**** it one more blessed item on SP that shouldnt be here it makes the devs feel its alright to throw garbage on this server...

 

[Damien Softstep]

SP dies UO dies for me...i cant go to a free server in fear of it closing 3 weeks later or bogus favoritism or just plain stupidity in rules...although i deal with it with EA...this server is UO for me once SP dies UO dies...i havent played a production shard since 1998 soon as i had the chance i ran to SP havent looked back since...

 

[Damien Softstep]

Just thinking out loud and don’t want to start an argument.
But before I started here I played LS.
I sat at Brit bank for hours and hours B.S.ing with others.
Because I had the best of everything UO could give.
I never thought I would come here,
Because if I died I lost my things I worked so hard to get.
So for this reason I sat at LS - Brit bank.
Now!!! oneday my friend and I was board so we decided to come to siege.

Now I keep reading how Siege players, wants more people to play here.
Sometimes we get stuck in a rut, and we can’t see what might be right in front of us.

I think this shard needs to bring insurance to it.
But since it is Siege there should be a down side to insurance.
Like 10k for each item.
We kind of have insurance here all ready,
because I keep reading about players saying
hay so and so sell my things back to me.

I remember when I started here. I worked a hold week killing mongbat to save up to get better armor and weapon and someone killed me and took my armor. So back to killing mongbats again. Ya I hear some of you laughing.

If you want more people to play here.
There needs to be a little give and take.
Give them something they want like insurance
And in return you get more player to play with or to PK

Remember don’t want to start an argument
Just something to think about

If you dont mind me asking ginsu when did you start playing UO and what server did you start on?

 

[Uvtha]

Yea it sure seems to be working out for us don't it? Nons top action all day, you can't doa spawn w/o being raided, and if you are looking to raid one you will find one within 10 minutes...

Do you really think insurance will change that? How many crafters will quit if they put in insurance?

I mean just play a prodo shard if you want insurance. Lack of insurance is at least half the reason this shard is worth playing.

 

[Chim]

I think its time to face the facts that after 12 years Siege if finally a dead shard.

 

[Kage]

I think its time to face the facts that after 12 years Siege if finally a dead shard.

Siege was picking up before I put my computer in the shop. I come back two weeks later and 98% of my guild is playing prodo. I'm working a character there as well but most of the time you will find me on siege. Who knows after a few weeks I may be forming a new guid.

 

[QueenZen]

Do you really think insurance will change that? How many crafters will quit if they put in insurance?

I mean just play a prodo shard if you want insurance. Lack of insurance is at least half the reason this shard is worth playing.

I would quit. Granted I NO LONGER pvp since the age of ITEM$, but I came to Siege because OF insurance.

On Chesapeake when insurance first came into existance, players were so fond of my GM tailored QZ mark they were insuring even thighboots I had made. Now my boots were only 100gp on my vendor, insuring em to *keep* those boots cost em what 600gp ???

It made no sense whatsoever to me. Fear of losing everything once insurance comes, becomes nearly a paranoia with some folks. I can and do fathom insuring something really valuable a piece or two of something. But, once insurance hit, and you can still see it there folks insure EVERYTHING after a while...oh just insure it...np no loss ...and nothing for any crafter to make ever again.

I came here TO craft where folks could not insure diddly...course faction buy backs to me is still some peculiar form of insurance to me, with those whom co operate to sell back suits to each other, *granted those are very pricey* suits.

At any rate I came to Siege in 2004 after playing UO since 98...cuz Siege had no insurance figured maybe a crafter could still make something that folks can not insure thus providing crafters some usefulness yet somewhere in UO. I do NOT insure even fel side on Chesapeake to this day...IF I can not afford to loose it, it stays in my home or is banked...IF I can afford to loose it, it is on my chr. UNINSURED........... guess I just felt the original concept UO was about the possibility of being pK'd and losing junk...still feel that way.

I know, I am in a minority...every time I log onto Chesapeake and click on everyone fel side tram side wherever and everything is insured even a sash made by their OWN crafter which is easily replaced for far less than their insuring it all costs them.

To me insurance just leads to greater paranoia about losing everything to the degree with some they insure...even a REPLACEABLE easily remakeable...ninja belt ... and yes I see some folks here insure their ninja belts too with their one siege bless item...a craftable my Miranda or any tailor can make for practically nothin and replace for everyone here easily...and yet some clothing bless deed those too here or siege one item bless even their ninja belts.

Guess fear of losing even a ninja belt...is greater with some folks playing even here, than this old UO player can ever.. fathom. This OLD UO dinosaur knows my time in UO is limited EVEN here on Siege as the UO world becomes more cushy safe everywhere........even here.

Insurance IS here on Siege, in one form or another already to a tiny degree, anyhow, I guess.

 

[Ginsu's]

If you dont mind me asking ginsu when did you start playing UO and what server did you start on?

I think it was Pacific.
I played before trammel was here.
And when you could gate in to caves.
Talk about PVP days wow that was crazy times playing on dial up. :gun:
I stopped playing about the time ninjas came out.
I could not afford to play the game so I gave it up
I been back for about 3 years now, playing LS
I did not come to this server to PvP or PK anyone.
I can’t PvP to save my ass. I tried and I get all confused
And end up pushing all kinds of keys LOL…
So why am I here on seige. I guess I miss the old days when it was hard
To play the game, like picking cotton to get cloth.
I also been a trammy, care bare, and bank sitter,
So I know how most of the people think about siege.
So this was my idea about getting more people to come to siege
Trust me giving them free armor and gold will not bring them.
They can get that them self. They just want to be able to keep some of
what they work so hard to get.

If you look around there houses all over the place so where is everyone.
PvPing on other severs.

You know what also might be fun. Letting us gate in caves again.

PS I love the new look for Stratics

 

[Kat]

No insurance. The day that comes, I'm out.

IMO, our biggest problems are faction arties and the expectation from a few immature players, that faction arties AND EVERYTHING ELSE THEY
HAD ON will be sold back to them in ONE transaction, or they throw a huge fit. Those players belong on Trammel shards where there is insurance and should go there immediately.

Faction arties should be revisited - I feel they should be removed since imbuing has come into play.

Factions needs to be revisited - We need reasons to fight for and benefits to controlling the towns.

Faction Towns - Guardzones should be turned off in these towns

New Players - Should land in a Guardzone protected town, in a guild hall that has a bulletin board or somesuch, that can be edited by players, which will direct new players to guilds/houses/people that can offer assistance.

RoT - Timers and gain cap per day should be further adjusted so that players can train and participate a little quicker than currently possible.

Luna & Umbra - Moongates should be moved about 25 screens outside of each of those towns.

 

[Afterglow]

Insurance is not the way to go. UO was born without Insurance and Siege should stay that way.

We had fighted had to get rid of some blessed items, that was a pain here. Faction items don't belong on Siege, they have to go too.

As a crafter, you should know, you need customers and Insurance will ruin your business just like Factions items do.

What Siege need is more Crafters, better drop of crafting resources and some anti PK's to keep the PK's busy and protect the crafters and farmers.

There need to be more shops selling 5x 70 resist set with LRC, Luck or what the customers need to replace their lost suit.

We may not all be able to affort running in upper suits but we can now craft useful suits.

If we now could get rid of Faction items, killing the one who can affort upper suits would be worth it as the killer could use the items.

Siege is most fun if the PvP'ers can fight the whole day, the farmers can sell their stuff to crafters and PvP'ers and the crafters can get needed resources and sell their stuff.

Insured items are the last thing we need.

Items changes hand, that's too is a part of Siege.

/signed

I came back to uo just because siege exists, prodo incl. insurance wouldn't.
yes, faction items and other uber-items are turn offs for me (same for imbuing) as the game gets to item based since aos.
insurance back in 98 started with the message that the server is going down. server down battles were the best!
in addition to that items crafted by players should always be better then items dropped by monsters (except really rare items - and even these exist x-times, what's the meaning of rare here?!)

 

[Mitzlplik_SP]

I don`t think insurance is the answer to attract more peaple. IMO faction arties need to go the way of the Dodo and peerless ingridients should be made easier to get. I mean for real....who in one hell is EVER gonna be able to make single use soul stone when one component comes from (damn memorys not working).... the boss inside prism of light. Things need to be made easier for crafters to get in order to feed the needs of pvp`rs and everyone else in general..... cheaply.

IMO its not the idea of actually losing items,but more the cost and difficulty in replacing them. I`m not afraid at all of losing anything I`m wearing,but I will say this... it`s what keeps me from pvp`ing atm. I`ve been here lil over 3 months now and I`m no where near being able wade into the pvp side of the pool. I may have the skills but I have no LGM imbuer and I`m not in factions. The latter will turn me into fodder more than a pvp`r anyways,so whats the use.

When I CAN put on an LGM made/imbued suit and actually stand a chance,I`ll be up for some PVP. When other peaple know they can compete in LGM (easily replacable) armor I`m sure they`d drop everything to be here too. I`m not going to give myself a head ache and try to figure out how to pay for each death (buybacks? maybe slang for SP insurance) since they are so freekin steep anyways. Not to mention the statloss that comes with factions....ummm fk that. Most times...one fight,dry looted and bent over for 15-20 minutes. Takes the fun right out of it. Factions either needs a major rework or just be eliminated entirely on Siege. I`d vote the latter,than it`d be entirely in the hands of our crafters.

In a nutshell,its not losing things that people hate. When peaple can die and re equip for less than 100k,you`ll see alot more players here.