The one true way to balance PvP

[Dolphoenix]

ok, just because : I don't think I've ever given my view, and the answer is so simple, I'm going to GIVE everyone the answer to solving PvP balancing.

No charge. This is a freebie!

(to keep this simple I'll leave out connection speeds, and computer speeds as the developers have no real control over this)

Defining PVP Balancing :

1. PvP : These initials mean Player versus Player. As in combat.

2. Balancing : This is the act of bringing objects into a state of equilibrium (balance, sameness, equality. i.e. x = y = z)

Simplest scenario is 1 player versus 1 player. To be equal both MUST be armed the same, armored the same, and skilled the same.
The answer - 1 set PVP armor, 1 PVP weapon, 1 PvP skill. If a player wishes to pvp, must be in appropriate gear. at onset of combat only the pvp skill will work. no items will work. (the pvp skill allows for pvp weapon and armor to be used, a degree of regeneration, possibly healing. There is no skill point value of the pvp skill, you either have it or you don't)

There you go! 1v1 PvP brought into perfect balance!!

But wait! people like to play with friends! Hrmmm. Easy enough.

Lets say you and 2 friends want to go fight others. In order to maintain balance, you'll only be able to fight another group of 3 people.
SO PvP party mode. You can only engage in combat with another PvP party of the same size.

Problem solved!

No more 3v1 or 10v1!! Which as everyone knows is unfair and unbalanced!

(though honestly, I always thought when people went to fight or go to war, whatever, that the idea was to win. Silly me, imagine how much fair the real world would be if every country had armies exactly the same size, equiped exactly the same, and no country was allowed to gang up on another.. )

See? Now wasn't that easy? Don't you all feel incredibly stupid wasting all these years complaining about PvP balance when the answer is so simple?


Now then.. my understanding is that the various creatures and monster in UO have been complaining about PvM not being fair.. eh, I'll have to think about how to solve that one....

 

[Aran]

Hahahahahaha...hahaha..haha..ha....haha.... No.

 

[Viper09]

Wow. You know, before I opened this thread I knew it was going to be horrible. I wasn't disappointed.

Horrible idea, absolutely horrible. So bad I have to assume this whole thread was a joke

 

[Jhym]

Even simpler:

Everyone gets a Stick. Commence whacking each other with sticks. Last whacker standing wins!!

 

[Cear Dallben Dragon]

so if 800 necromages target a miner, he should turn into jesus.
**** yes.
Im down.

 

[Ezekiel Zane]

What is it with all the really dumb posts lately?

 

[popps]

My opinion ?

The goal is noble, to bring PvP to a new life. A goal that needs balance.

Without balanced out PvP players, at least a good chunk of them, flee it, thus leaving PvP a niche game.

The approach suggested, though, tries to get rid too fast of the plethora of items we have.

This can be a problem for many players who, over the years, got used to hoarde them and want them and blah blah. If they are made useless overnight, they would feel deprived of their stocks usefullness....

I think I have a better idea to get to the same noble goal, but in a less stressfull way.

We already have insurance value to items.

Well then, assign a "combat value" to items or, even better, to the overall "power rating" of a character depending on armour weared and weapons/shields yielded.

Then, make PvP so that 2 individuals with a "power rating" differing, say, 20% from each other will not be allowed to take damage from each other.

Or, if preferred, make it so that the party having higher >20% power rating differential cannot initiate combat but the party having a lower >20% power rating differential can initiate combat and the other party can, of course, answer back.

PvP groups ?

Same idea, only that the groups need be in "PvP party mode" and then a "power rating" value for the entire group will be assigned.
Once this value is assigned, this PvP group will only be allowed to initiate combat with members being part of another PvP group with a power rating differential within 20%.

This way, if the values are well assigned to the individuals and the groups, the game engine would make sure that only players with a power rating sufficiently close to each other can fight each other.

No more ganking or easy kills but challenging PvP. SInce PvPers often talk about "the challenge" of fighting other human beings, rather than machine AI run MoBs, I can only think that having a challenging PvP means having a funnier PvP !!

And this, without getting rid of items overnight.

Items would still be there for players, only they will be a lot less meaningfull.

 

[Victoria Navarre]

No more 3v1 or 10v1!! Which as everyone knows is unfair and unbalanced!

Because of this,people wont go for it. I would guess that 80% of the UO pvp'ers wont enter a fight unless they have the advantage of numbers. It's simply human nature to want reward with no real risk.

 

[Damien Softstep]

ok, just because : I don't think I've ever given my view, and the answer is so simple, I'm going to GIVE everyone the answer to solving PvP balancing.

No charge. This is a freebie!

(to keep this simple I'll leave out connection speeds, and computer speeds as the developers have no real control over this)

Defining PVP Balancing :

1. PvP : These initials mean Player versus Player. As in combat.

2. Balancing : This is the act of bringing objects into a state of equilibrium (balance, sameness, equality. i.e. x = y = z)

Simplest scenario is 1 player versus 1 player. To be equal both MUST be armed the same, armored the same, and skilled the same.
The answer - 1 set PVP armor, 1 PVP weapon, 1 PvP skill. If a player wishes to pvp, must be in appropriate gear. at onset of combat only the pvp skill will work. no items will work. (the pvp skill allows for pvp weapon and armor to be used, a degree of regeneration, possibly healing. There is no skill point value of the pvp skill, you either have it or you don't)

There you go! 1v1 PvP brought into perfect balance!!

But wait! people like to play with friends! Hrmmm. Easy enough.

Lets say you and 2 friends want to go fight others. In order to maintain balance, you'll only be able to fight another group of 3 people.
SO PvP party mode. You can only engage in combat with another PvP party of the same size.

Problem solved!

No more 3v1 or 10v1!! Which as everyone knows is unfair and unbalanced!

(though honestly, I always thought when people went to fight or go to war, whatever, that the idea was to win. Silly me, imagine how much fair the real world would be if every country had armies exactly the same size, equiped exactly the same, and no country was allowed to gang up on another.. )

See? Now wasn't that easy? Don't you all feel incredibly stupid wasting all these years complaining about PvP balance when the answer is so simple?


Now then.. my understanding is that the various creatures and monster in UO have been complaining about PvM not being fair.. eh, I'll have to think about how to solve that one....

 

[Connor_Graham]

Now then.. my understanding is that the various creatures and monster in UO have been complaining about PvM not being fair.. eh, I'll have to think about how to solve that one....

Don't bother. Your understanding is wrong, so there's no need to waste more of everyone's time.

 

[girana]

played too much **** wow ? lol


open PvP was and will never balanced but imom its better balance as it was for a very long Time (like pre Pub16 ***** valo spears*)

 

[Taylor]

Nah.

 

[Trebr Drab]

I think Dolphoenix posted this tongue in cheek, to show what true balance would be and why we don't really want "true" balance.

And I agree, we don't want that, of course not. Point well made.

However, with such large numbers as we have since AoS, it takes every imbalance and highlights it, expanding it to extreme levels. If we look at "balance" as "something like balanced" in combat that features many options and choices, UO just can't get there with all the BIG NUMBERS. Every little thing becomes a big point in throwing "balance" out the window.

AoS threw the baby out with the bath water, and PvP has suffered ever since. So has PvM, except most here are powergamers and don't seem to see that.

 

[Dolphoenix]

I think Dolphoenix posted this tongue in cheek, to show what true balance would be and why we don't really want "true" balance.

And I agree, we don't want that, of course not. Point well made.

However, with such large numbers as we have since AoS, it takes every imbalance and highlights it, expanding it to extreme levels. If we look at "balance" as "something like balanced" in combat that features many options and choices, UO just can't get there with all the BIG NUMBERS. Every little thing becomes a big point in throwing "balance" out the window.

AoS threw the baby out with the bath water, and PvP has suffered ever since. So has PvM, except most here are powergamers and don't seem to see that.

And we have a winner!

 

[Viper09]

played too much **** wow ? lol


open PvP was and will never balanced but imom its better balance as it was for a very long Time (like pre Pub16 ***** valo spears*)

I've tried WoW. WoW PvP isn't even close to as bad as the OP's post.

 

[Trebr Drab]

I've tried WoW. WoW PvP isn't even close to as bad as the OP's post.

WoW's PvP is level/item based. It's rock/paper/scissors too. That's what AoS did to UO, and needs to change if UO is to have the great PvP it once had, even though it never was balanced to perfection.

UO PvP used to be so much fun even for more casual players like myself. I used to love it, because I could make a difference, and was even good at it for a while after I built myself up to GM skills. I always knew through all the PKings that someday I'd be GMed, and then I'd have my revenge. And I did, for such a short while it seems.

Now, I'm just so much road kill. I don't bother. There's nothing worse than driving down the halls of a Dungeon and seeing that same critter road kill over and over again...my corpses. heh

 

[mbraud4]

Wow. just friggin wow....

The great thing of UO is the vast amount of pvp and the variety of it...

I am not allowed to say what I think of your idea...

 

[UOKaiser]

WoW's PvP is level/item based. It's rock/paper/scissors too. That's what AoS did to UO, and needs to change if UO is to have the great PvP it once had, even though it never was balanced to perfection.

UO PvP used to be so much fun even for more casual players like myself. I used to love it, because I could make a difference, and was even good at it for a while after I built myself up to GM skills. I always knew through all the PKings that someday I'd be GMed, and then I'd have my revenge. And I did, for such a short while it seems.

Now, I'm just so much road kill. I don't bother. There's nothing worse than driving down the halls of a Dungeon and seeing that same critter road kill over and over again...my corpses. heh

Remembeer though WOW and UO are 2 different genres as different as Unreal tournament and UO is. WOW is base on a strategy game with 2 sides that the main point was to defeat the other side with each unit having a counter on the other side as empire earth,age of empire,age of wonders,civilization,Command and conquer,Dune 2,Heroes of might and Magic,etc. While UO is based on a RPG game like final fantasy,Dragon warrior,zelda,Chrono Trigger etc..Where the purpose is to become more powerful and defeat the final enemy any way you can.

 

[Sneaky Que]

What is it with all the really dumb posts lately?

QFT

 

[Gildar]

Don't you all feel incredibly stupid wasting all these years complaining about PvP balance when the answer is so simple?

Psst... nobody wants to simply balance PvP. Those who are ask for balanced PvP want balanced and fun PvP. They leave out the "fun" part because it is an implied desire due to UO being a game.

Balancing PvP is very, very easy. Doing so with it still being fun for most players and prospective players that could have a desire to participate in PvP is not.

 

[popps]

Because of this,people wont go for it. I would guess that 80% of the UO pvp'ers wont enter a fight unless they have the advantage of numbers. It's simply human nature to want reward with no real risk.

Uhu ???

I thought the "motto" for PvP lands was......... aheam.........."Risk vs. Reward"....

Just cheap, empty talking ???

 

[Victoria Navarre]

Because of this,people wont go for it. I would guess that 80% of the UO pvp'ers wont enter a fight unless they have the advantage of numbers. It's simply human nature to want reward with no real risk.

Uhu ???

I thought the "motto" for PvP lands was......... aheam.........."Risk vs. Reward"....

Just cheap, empty talking ???

Yeah risk vs reward. Your risk,my reward.

 

[Merion]

There are so many things wrong with the idea in the OP, I don't even know where to start ranting...

 

[Kiminality]

There are so many things wrong with the idea in the OP, I don't even know where to start ranting...

That's the point.
Unless all things are made equal and equivalent, there can't be the much cried for "balance".
There will always be templates that are more powerful, and templates that are weaker, rock/paper/scissors conditions, and all the other things that get whined about.

 

[canary]

I realized how horribly broken PvP was after I built a good suit and then found out I could kill other characters. Because if _I_ can PvP decent, you totally know it is based more on items than talent.

 

[G.v.P]

Even simpler:

Everyone gets a Stick. Commence whacking each other with sticks. Last whacker standing wins!!

I don't know, I can whack a stick for a pretty long time! I might just win! Whatever, it is, we would win ... in this scenario, in a game, that has no end. Do we get magazines? :/

lol ... okay, so my thought is, the most simple solution for PvP balance is to not participate in PvP; no risk no reward. A perfect system for those overly concerned.

 

[Trebr Drab]

There are so many things wrong with the idea in the OP, I don't even know where to start ranting...

That's the point.
Unless all things are made equal and equivalent, there can't be the much cried for "balance".
There will always be templates that are more powerful, and templates that are weaker, rock/paper/scissors conditions, and all the other things that get whined about.

But it can be done better. You can have a better whine!