[UO Herald] Test Center - New Client and Publish Available Today

[Ezekiel Zane]

Yeah, no doubt. Many already brag about how much gold they make killin peeps. Now they can double that.

Not really. Before it was 300 GP per item insured: Now it might be a fraction of that (IE., a miner who insures only the (nonmagical) clothes on his back). Might make going after monsters more profitable.

Well, I was mostly referring to PvPrs. Most are wearing top-end gear right?

edit: and stop killing my miner, LoL.

 

[Trevelyan]

Better idea; remove insurance altogether

But really, I don't understand the motives for decreasing the insurance; would one of Los Devs elaborate?

 

[Stanton Of Pac]

Well, I was mostly referring to PvPrs. Most are wearing top-end gear right?

Possibly. Depends on what the final insurance cost is. I can see insurance becoming popular for ordinary, non-magical items (a favorite set of boots, a hued shirt, etc.) if it only costs 10-30 gold to insure it now, which becomes something of a gold sink. Can't predict how it's going to shake up things.

edit: and stop killing my miner, LoL.

*insert favorite then_stay_in_trammel_noob crack here*

 

[Stanton Of Pac]

Better idea; remove insurance altogether

Would make Thievery more viable. Not sure if that would speed up Felucca's death spiral or not.

But really, I don't understand the motives for decreasing the insurance; would one of Los Devs elaborate?

Hypothesis: No one likes to be dry-looted on Fel so either you insure everything (@600GP per item), or you stay off Fel. Hence the Dead Facet Syndrome. Cheap insurance = less dry-looting which possibly leads to players visiting Fel more often. PO's the thieves a bit because even if there's more people in the Fel cities to steal from there's less to swipe.

 

[Yalp]

Oohhh.. interesting!

I didn't see anything about removing the auto-renewal toggle.. the source of many many many many many frustrating rants on these boards.. not to mention a more than a few words not spoken in polite company.... or did I just miss it?

 

[Ezekiel Zane]

Oohhh.. interesting!

I didn't see anything about removing the auto-renewal toggle.. the source of many many many many many frustrating rants on these boards.. not to mention a more than a few words not spoken in polite company.... or did I just miss it?

I think it's still a toggle. It's a checkbox in the menu. As long as it defaults to checked it should be ok.

 

[Smokin]

Would make Thievery more viable. Not sure if that would speed up Felucca's death spiral or not.



Hypothesis: No one likes to be dry-looted on Fel so either you insure everything (@600GP per item), or you stay off Fel. Hence the Dead Facet Syndrome. Cheap insurance = less dry-looting which possibly leads to players visiting Fel more often. PO's the thieves a bit because even if there's more people in the Fel cities to steal from there's less to swipe.

Insurance isn't just for Fel, specially now with events and other things where there are 20 monsters that loot around your corpse. Drives you nuts if you have kill them and then find which one stole your things. God I hate that.

 

[Picus at the office]

Would make Thievery more viable. Not sure if that would speed up Felucca's death spiral or not.



Hypothesis: No one likes to be dry-looted on Fel so either you insure everything (@600GP per item), or you stay off Fel. Hence the Dead Facet Syndrome. Cheap insurance = less dry-looting which possibly leads to players visiting Fel more often. PO's the thieves a bit because even if there's more people in the Fel cities to steal from there's less to swipe.

So your theory would be I could insure pots and bandaids? Assuming these have little value on the scale I'd be willing to say this is another nail for PvP. It's part of the fight to kill your enemy makeing them go to refill and repot.

I'd also like to state in this thread what a shock I feel to see that resources are spent on a "pet project" with limited real value when we still face the major issues like years long bugs, lack of ingame support and blatent cheating.

 

[hawkeye_pike]

Wow. That's an unexpected change. I wonder how they got the idea to change this.

 

[Uriah Heep]

I don't get it. For some reason I had the impression they were gonna make insurance more expensive to make you either buy into the gold sink, or spend gps replacing stuff.
Have to think about this, seems like a step in the wrong direction. Might as well just let us bless everything.

*shrugs*

 

[Smokin]

So your theory would be I could insure pots and bandaids? Assuming these have little value on the scale I'd be willing to say this is another nail for PvP. It's part of the fight to kill your enemy makeing them go to refill and repot.

I'd also like to state in this thread what a shock I feel to see that resources are spent on a "pet project" with limited real value when we still face the major issues like years long bugs, lack of ingame support and blatent cheating.

Well you can insure bandaids cheaply now just insure robes for 10 gp each and scissors same thing, I haven't did the number crunching but yeah you will be able to now basically. It will for sure be cheaper then insuring a bunch of robes then before. Going to go do that now and see the cost.

 

[Viquire]

I don't get it. For some reason I had the impression they were gonna make insurance more expensive to make you either buy into the gold sink, or spend gps replacing stuff.
Have to think about this, seems like a step in the wrong direction. Might as well just let us bless everything.

*shrugs*

Well it did get a bit more expensive for folks who die, and a bit more rewarding for those on the winning end of a duel or battle. Faction changes were supposed to be forthcoming, maybe this is a precursor.

I'm not certain about all this "My garg items aren't being counted!" If that's how they plan to make us all play gargs and pony up for the expansion, well I don't think it is going to have the dramatic impact they are thinking.

If it is a bug then there is a lot of cheering going on for naught.

 

[Smokin]

So for every robe you insure you get 2 bandages thats 5gp per bandage. If you really wanted you can get 120 bandages for 600 gp. If you can carry that many which works out to 180 stones. Not much.

 

[Supreem]

I didn't personally implement this change but I was involved in the initial design. The primary reason is to make it easier for new players or players starting on new shards to be able to afford insurance. We also wanted to make it easier to understand the system and provide the player with a more accessible way to see what is insured.

The are other benefits to these changes. Such as pvping in Fel should be both more profitable and cheaper to participate in at the same time.

These changes will not be going live until they are completely ready. We will need your help to get them to this point. Please try to get on the test center, insure some items, and get yourself killed in new and interesting ways. As usual, report any bugs you find to [email protected]. Thanks!

 

[canary]

I didn't personally implement this change but I was involved in the initial design. The primary reason is to make it easier for new players or players starting on new shards to be able to afford insurance. We also wanted to make it easier to understand the system and provide the player with a more accessible way to see what is insured.

The are other benefits to these changes. Such as pvping in Fel should be both more profitable and cheaper to participate in at the same time.

These changes will not be going live until they are completely ready. We will need your help to get them to this point. Please try to get on the test center, insure some items, and get yourself killed in new and interesting ways. As usual, report any bugs you find to [email protected]. Thanks!

That is so awesome people took the time to do this when NO ONE has been screaming for it to be done. You know, there are a thousand other things that need attention in this game, starting with Hawkeye Pike's thread on EC bugs, some not being tended to in the past 2 years. Because, as I have no doubt you are very well aware, we players have been sending in bug reports for THOSE since 2007.

Color me not impressed.

Edit: I thought newbies got the items from training skills in New Haven that were blessed as a way to help them get started. Again (imo) the UO team decides to waste development time. Shocking. Are we supposed to cheer your efforts when so many things that current p(l)ayers need or want addressed not being taken care of? How do you even hope to cater to these 'new players' besides insurance when you have two clients, one which is almost 13 years old and the other horribly broken and bugged. Yay?

 

[Smokin]

If this all goes live, as I noticed on test my items were not insured, I can not remember if they were but if for some reason it cancels current insurance. May we get a big warning pop up.

 

[Martyna Zmuir]

I'm sure the handful of people.. and we all know its not more then a few 'new' people a week, since this game has ZERO shelf or advertising presence.. will be excited about this..

Oh. Wait. The new player experience (which ONLY exists in the EC) is about 5 minutes long and completly devoid information about game mechanics such as this (insurance).

Before you reinvent the wheel, you might want to make sure the ground its designed to roll on not cratered with potholes and puncture hazards.

Focus on fixing bugs. Finish the EC.

Content like this can come later when it won't make the team look like they are completely out of touch.

 

[Lady Michelle]

This is not a real big issue for me, but it might be for players who like to collect, and have a house in fel. No insurance for the holiday gifts, and anniversary gifts. If there is no way to insure these What other rare items we will not be able to insure. I wasn't able to insure an icicle, but I was able to insure a candy cane. LOL I sure wouldn't want to lose that candy cane to a Pker

 

[Tina Small]

Does anyone else have the feeling maybe this is something that was put on Test just to give us something to chew on while the team is busy getting something else ready?

 

[canary]

Does anyone else have the feeling maybe this is something that was put on Test just to give us something to chew on while the team is busy getting something else ready?

Considering that they more than likely no longer have a QA department, sure.

It still is a waste of development resources. I'd rather be testing bux fixes that stem from 2 years ago or longer.

 

[NBG]

Who wants to bet that they ignore all these bug reports and put it live in in a couple days anyway?

 

[Fink]

10gp to insure cloth, zounds..

..so I only need die 25,000 times for my clothing bless deeds to pay for themselves?

Seriously, it seems like a good idea if they can eliminate the bugs. I've always felt that insurance cost should reflect the value of the item. The menu seems fine, if a little clunky, and it actually reduced the number of items cluttering up the player context menu, so it's a win.

I don't think you should get any gold back for killing yourself, it sends the wrong message to all those poor misunderstood emo kids.

 

[Clog|Mordain]

I don't think you should get any gold back for killing yourself, it sends the wrong message to all those poor misunderstood emo kids.

 

[G.v.P]

Um, so wait just a sec. Not that it matters a whole heck of a lot in the great scheme of things, but do we get charged full boat (pvm value) for deaths in pvp and faction pvp? Hmmmmmmm

thats interesting.

Not really. Before it was 300 GP per item insured: Now it might be a fraction of that (IE., a miner who insures only the (nonmagical) clothes on his back). Might make going after monsters more profitable.

Stanton of Pac covered that one. Basically, as it stands, PvPers get 50% of your insure total while the other half gets eaten by the system. If the proposed changes make it, 100% goes to PvPers. The user who dies loses no more or less than before overall, while the PvPer has a greater incentive to kill others.

I'm glad they spent a lot of development time and energy on this. Insurance was so overpowered in pvp. I'm sure this will just open up a huge can of bugs too, can't wait to see it unfold.

Great news for my artificer as there will be tons of items lost to all the bugs. Should keep me in business well beyond the 3 months someone else on the boards predicted as the end of imbuing.

10gp to insure cloth, zounds..

..so I only need die 25,000 times for my clothing bless deeds to pay for themselves?

Yeah, I'm scared to risk my **** now lol but now that insure is so cheap for clothes, wow, that really does devalue CBDs ... they're about 1.5 mil on my shard of choice so that's 150,000 deaths, or approximately 37,500 days of casual play for me, or ... 102.73 years ... hm, at that, 10 gp rate.

The are other benefits to these changes. Such as pvping in Fel should be both more profitable and cheaper to participate in at the same time.

As others have noted, why change the code to an already questionable system? For the purposes of karma I have to at least entertain the insure code can be broken, although I have to imagine user error creates a large number of incidents as well. Also, I think it's nice to have every death take some gold out of the game, and I'm not sure a 100% plan is in the best interest of anyone.

I do like lower costs for younger players though, no fault in that one. There might need to be a balance though since not all item slots follow the same item caps/mod possibilities. For example, there aren't that many types of boots in the game, but if a poison 2 boots is say, 50 gp, is that right, or should it be artificially upped since the choices of footwear are limited to less mods, on average, than common item slots?

I am happy you guys have an eye on PvP, but I would rather welcome in a more dynamic Factions system rather than a slap to Factions, or, what I read as a penalty, unless what I should read is 150%.

 

[Basara]

That is so awesome people took the time to do this when NO ONE has been screaming for it to be done.

Apparently, you've been reading some alternate universe's UO Stratics since Insurance was introduced. Variable rate insurance has been BEGGED FOR since at least 2004.

 

[Sneaky Que]

The primary reason is to make it easier for new players or players starting on new shards to be able to afford insurance.

I'm probably reading too much into this, but did Supreem_EAMythic just say new shards...?

I guess it all depends on if he meant players changing to a different (new) shard, or IF he was hinting at a new shard(s) entirely...

Interesting.

 

[canary]

Apparently, you've been reading some alternate universe's UO Stratics since Insurance was introduced. Variable rate insurance has been BEGGED FOR since at least 2004.

uhm, it has? Wow, I (and the other 99% of the players I'm sure) TOTALLY missed ALL those posts. rolleyes:

 

[Lorax_Pacific]

I'm probably reading too much into this, but did Supreem_EAMythic just say new shards...?

I guess it all depends on if he meant players changing to a different (new) shard, or IF he was hinting at a new shard(s) entirely...

Interesting.

He meant when all the shards get merged into one new shard bringing all peoples together into one Kumbuya and the population resembles the population of the original shards and we need translation servers and I have to go live in Vesper again to avoid the lag demon in Britain and will be in Luna. That is also the day Lord British is found and visits every town with crowds of followers hailing and confetti falling from the sky. At that point there will be flocks of people joining the mayhem and all the newbies with 1000 gold will need to insure their items for 10gp.

-Lorax

 

[Cirno]

I'm probably reading too much into this, but did Supreem_EAMythic just say new shards...?

I guess it all depends on if he meant players changing to a different (new) shard, or IF he was hinting at a new shard(s) entirely...

Interesting.

He meant when all the shards get merged into one new shard bringing all peoples together into one Kumbuya and the population resembles the population of the original shards and we need translation servers and I have to go live in Vesper again to avoid the lag demon in Britain and will be in Luna. That is also the day Lord British is found and visits every town with crowds of followers hailing and confetti falling from the sky. At that point there will be flocks of people joining the mayhem and all the newbies with 1000 gold will need to insure their items for 10gp.

-Lorax

I think it's a little more likely that he meant "new" as in "not played by that player".

Although, it could also be a hint at new shards coming that people might want to start fresh on. New rulesets and stuff, perhaps. I doubt it, but it's not impossible.

 

[AesSedai]

Apparently, you've been reading some alternate universe's UO Stratics since Insurance was introduced. Variable rate insurance has been BEGGED FOR since at least 2004.

uhm, it has? Wow, I (and the other 99% of the players I'm sure) TOTALLY missed ALL those posts. rolleyes:

- Yes, it has been requested for quite awhile, although perhaps not so much recently, as other requests inevitably replace the ones that seemingly go unheard.
Actually, Fertbert (remember that great UO developer?) had that on his wish list before he moved on; and that was quite awhile ago (he was also quite interested in creating armoires and jewelry boxes and other 'in-game' 'item management tools').

But wait, here is my vent in hopes of allowing you to relate to some of my thoughts, canary:
If only EA knew the value of all the talent (even just the UO talent alone) that they have tossed aside, their stockholders would cry very rich, green tears (~ a symbolic representation of all the money EA has pew pew'ed away over the years).

 

[flappy6]

what a waste of time?why not fix something that is broke?

 

[Aurelius]

The more I think about this change, the less I see it as being either worth the work, or remotely sensible.

First off, it's hugely bug-riddled - and you can be sure that there will be some of those get past Test into full release. It's been that way for every Beta feedback campaign, every 'Test' run on a new or reprogrammed system.... EA track record is what matters, not aspirations - and there is too much evidence from past failures to have any confidence that some miracle means we'll not see any this time round.

Want to encourage new characters on a shard - fair enough aim, so while you have NO in-game explanation of insurance (hell, in 2d you can still call up the 'Codex of Wisdom', which tells you how to make best use of your 'power hour' skill gain time!), let's keep it simpler. On first creation, that character gets, say, 5 modified personal bless deeds, with a proper instruction explaining how they work. They won't work for anyone else, and tweak them slightly so they only last (either as deeds or as 'blessed items' if they are used) until that character ceases being 'young', because by then they should have had a fair chance to understand how the basics of the game - including insurance - work. Stick an NPC 'insurance advisor' in the game, who can explain in more detail how that system works, give them a mini-quest to go talk to them before they can insure anything.

We keep hearing that gold sinks are a good idea - this removes an albeit minor goldsink, the money that 'vanished' on insured item loss in PvP.

The costs are just bizarre - the time spent figuring out the 'sliding scale' when the actual in-game prices are so low is not likely to have been wisely invested, when so many other big problems are crying out to be resolved.


It looks like another example of the unfocussed and fairly clueless management of UO. Reasonable enough idea in abstract, pretty irrelevant to the main issues of gameplay, but given developer and programmer time because it's a 'neat idea' to someone who has not grasped the actual list of priorities players have for what needs fixing. Sure there's a 'quick win' in PR, because something gets announced and there's discussion on forums - but again, it looks to be all surface gloss and no substance in terms of the actual game.

 

[R Traveler]

get yourself killed in new and interesting ways

Like this ?

 

[Tomas_Bryce]

I didn't personally implement this change but I was involved in the initial design. The primary reason is ...

I am bit confused with the thought process that went on behind the insurance change, especially when there are many good arguments for making insurance cost higher. If you are going to make it a scale, then surely you could have done it in a manner that the so-called new players could be on the lower end of the scale and the advanced players would be at a higher level (i.e. higher than 600 gp)?

I also reject the argument that "lowering the insurance cost" will encourage PvP'ing. Cost of dying is, in my opinion, not really up there in the reasons for not PvP'ing - one may even argue that the fact that dying is so pointless in consequence discourages people from PvP.

I wonder how Queen Dawn feels about the fact that freshly minted Britannian gold sovereigns just became even more worthless. It is a very sad state-of-affairs the Britannian economy has been in for many years now and its continued neglect by the people at the helm is greatly responsible for it. A big thumbs down to this change in its present form from me.

 

[Mitzlplik_SP]

what a waste of time?why not fix something that is broke?

Like chat.

Revamping the whole insurance thing had to be more intense than adding a lil thing called ignore.

 

[phantus]

Apparently, you've been reading some alternate universe's UO Stratics since Insurance was introduced. Variable rate insurance has been BEGGED FOR since at least 2004.

uhm, it has? Wow, I (and the other 99% of the players I'm sure) TOTALLY missed ALL those posts. rolleyes:

Oh they existed. Same 5 people posting them but they were posted.

 

[hawkeye_pike]

There are reasons why I avoid Felucca, and insurance cost isn't one of them. The main reasons are:

• PvP being mostly item-based.
• Too many exploits and cheats.
• Too many cussing idiots in Felucca.

But I agree that insurance cost for low-level items should be low, cause to my experience it will give the 2 new players I see every month an easier start.

 

[Cirno]

I think that, although there hasn't been a big fuss over insurance costs, it has been long understood that insurance is expensive for new players.
For a new player, 600 gold is 60% of what they start with, and if they're training skills, their priority probably won't be collecting gold, because they're not so familiar with the game.

I don't know if I like the change itself, but I like the intent behind it.

 

[Lynk]

The funny part would be the boards exploding in an uproar heard 'round the world.

I know right, there isn't anything you could do to quiet those 18 people down either.

 

[Harlequin]

Just some quick thoughts, haven't tested yet.

I think scaled insurance is a good idea. Was difficult to implement pre-imbuing days where they needed a system to determine an item's properties/intensities. Now that they have implemented a way to determine an item's total intensity that came with imbuing, it's a logical step.

Others have already mentioned, makes it easier for newbies (and returning players that have outdated equipment).

No impact to Tram players with high end expensive suits, since cap is still the same at 600 gp. As the only way the cost can go is down, insurance overall will only cost less.



For Fel players,
This makes pk'g miners give less returns (unless miners suddenly have an urge to go fel in a fully decked-out suit). But won't reduce pk'rs since it's not just the gold the pk'rs are really after. However, it might bring more resource gatherers (aka pk bait) to fel.


PvP'rs though, in their decked-out suits, might find themselves earning/losing more insurance money from/to their opponents. Since it's now 600 gp per item instead of just 300, endurance in the field has effectively just been halved.

Remains to be seen if this is good or bad and the actual impact.


Clothing bless deeds, personal bless deeds and blessed items just became a lot more useful to me.


An interesting next step would be to remove the 600 gp cap so that really high intensity items will cost even more to insure. I am guessing the insurance cost will be equal to the item's intensity?

 

[Picus at the office]

This does nothing to enhance the game, IMO. For the new players I fail to see how it makes a scruff of difference since they start with nothing to insure anyways.

Sure it could be of limited help to a established player starting on a new shard but really who doesn't know how to make some money in a reasonable fashion. This is also believing that they have not transfered a char from the home shard with equimpent for thier new voyage(or am I the only one who does this?)

For PvP money has not been the issue ever and those that do not have the money to insure thier suit are foolish to PvP.

Still a total waste of the one person still making code for the game.

 

[Lorax_Pacific]

Regarding your pvp point: The cost of dying is twice that of killing and people that are learning get an ever dwindling bank box that has to keep transferring gold from their crafters to feed the pvp'er, which is sometimes a problem when one evening you may work a champ spawn and pvp getting the bank level low. So ultimately getting the kill price higher helps people getting into pvp by balancing the loss from the deaths.

This also benefits people who do not die often because getting 3k gold off someone is pretty low compared to pvm. The gold insentive for pvp was not balanced like pvm gold insentive. You may say you don't pvp for the gold, but I would just go back to the kill/death gold balance argument.

It is very easy to loose 30k or more in a night of pvp'ing and after playing a week...

-Lorax

 

[RavenWinterHawk]

Death MUST HAVE A COST.

So simple.

Initial Cost
Insure it 600 gold.
60% to the killer. 40% to space. A gold sink.

1st death 20% increase to insure

720 gold now

2nd death 20% increase to insure

860 gold now

3rd death 20% increase to insure

1040 gold now

4th death 20% increase to insure

1240 gold now

The parameters.

Resets at surver up.
So if you logged out at 1240 gold cause you died 4x, next death you start back at 600 gold.

You only progress to next level if 10 minute elapsed since previous death. If you are killed over and over. You stay at what ever level you were at until 10 minutes progress.

60% to the victory 40% to gold sink.

Works the same in all the lands. Insurance is insurance is insurance.

INSURANCE IS NOT A RIGHT, its a luxury. NO OBAMACARE. Well maybe a little Obamacare, if done right. Okay a lot of Obamacare but not the current cheesy version. But heck, a Reb just won Mass. *steps off soapbox*

 

[Smokin]

Well they fixed the one bug I reported yesterday, I found another today and hope they fix it, unfortunately I can not post about it and now I become a evil exploiter for not being able to help the game when testing things on test shard.

Yes I did report the newer bug, but we will see how it things work with out using this forum. I will just say its as serious.