P
Pacem
Guest
LOOT! LOOT!YAY Christmas! Now wheres my stuff???
LOOT! LOOT!YAY Christmas! Now wheres my stuff???
GIMMIE GIMMIE!!LOOT! LOOT!
You been naughty or Nice? Get shoveling that snow !!!GIMMIE GIMMIE!!
Ok ok *puts hands up* I admit I was probably too broad in my scope there, but the Christmas celebrated in the USA is definately the result of and caused by Jesus. There is no doubt there.
It wasn't until the mid 1800's that Christmas as it is today was widely accepted and celebrated - and that curtesy of Charles Dickens...wikipedia said:In Colonial America, the Puritans of New England shared radical Protestant disapproval of Christmas. Celebration was outlawed in Boston from 1659 to 1681. The ban by the Pilgrims was revoked in 1681 by English governor Sir Edmund Andros, however it wasn't until the mid 1800's that celebrating Christmas became fashionable in the Boston region.[70] At the same time, Christian residents of Virginia and New York observed the holiday freely. Pennsylvania German Settlers, pre-eminently the Moravian settlers of Bethlehem, Nazareth and Lititz in Pennsylvania and the Wachovia Settlements in North Carolina, were enthusiastic celebrators of Christmas. The Moravians in Bethlehem had the first Christmas trees in America as well as the first Nativity Scenes.[71] Christmas fell out of favor in the United States after the American Revolution, when it was considered an English custom.[72] George Washington attacked Hessian mercenaries on Christmas during the Battle of Trenton in 1777. (Christmas being much more popular in Germany than in America at this time.)
bolded portion for emphasisBy the 1820s, sectarian tension had eased in Britain and writers, including William Winstanly, began to worry that Christmas was dying out. These writers imagined Tudor Christmas as a time of heartfelt celebration, and efforts were made to revive the holiday. In 1843, Charles Dickens wrote the novel A Christmas Carol, that helped revive the 'spirit' of Christmas and seasonal merriment.[73][74] Its instant popularity played a major role in portraying Christmas as a holiday emphasizing family, goodwill, and compassion.[75] The mid-Victorian revival of the holiday spearheaded by A Christmas Carol, historian Ronald Hutton argues that Dickens sought to construct Christmas as a family-centered festival of generosity, in contrast to the community-based and church-centered observations, the observance of which had dwindled during the late eighteenth and early nineteenth centuries.[76] Superimposing his secular vision of the holiday, Dickens influenced many aspects of Christmas that are celebrated today in Western culture, such as family gatherings, seasonal food and drink, dancing, games, and a festive generosity of spirit.[77]
All the atheist I have ever known are either want to be Maoist, Stalinist or leaning in the extreme statist direction.I'm not a member of any cult or cult like following.What cult are you in? The Maoist atheist cult?
I personally just get by on life. Do the right thing, care for the wife and kids, go to work and pay the morgtage. Smile and wave, yield to oncoming traffic and use my signal. Nothing special but I don't feel the need to set up a spam bot to act as the messiah. Something about false prophets, sheep and fruit comes to mind.
Massachusetts also outlawed lawyers and witches in the early days.*ahem*
Not to grief, but to educate...
The Native Americans of North and South America did indeed celebrate at this time of year the Solstice (as well as the Equinox in the spring)... with feasting and gifting as a way of marking the changing of the seasons, appreciation to their ancestors, and in celebration of various sun dieties. This was way before the coming of the "white man". Even the Eskimo and far-norther tribes of the First Nation would celebrate the Solstice with song to mark the shortest day of the year and to rejoice in the return of the sun to their frozen lands.
And here's an interesting tidbit that many really don't know:
It wasn't until the mid 1800's that Christmas as it is today was widely accepted and celebrated - and that curtesy of Charles Dickens...
bolded portion for emphasis
More can be read about the history of Christmas here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christmas
And the references are linked there.
It is worthy to note that in the days of Christ, there was no celebration of birthdays as it was ... then ... considered to be a pagan act to his culture. The Hebrews celebrated a persons death, and as such that is why there is so much written about Christ (the man) at his death, and not so very much about his birth and youth. For the Hebrew did not consider a child to be of much worth, which is why at the time most children stayed with their mothers. It isn't until Jesus is in his early teens that the bible speaks of him as being in the temple... 12 if I remember right. Back then, 13 or 14 years of age was manhood....
I'm not bashing you hun... just need to sort through the dogma and know the reality. I respect you for your diligence, and wish you would perhaps rephrase your statements to something not so... finite.
Whatever the belief, whatever the case... this time period... the 25th day of December... Solstice.... deep winter...... has been since pre-history a celebration of renewal as the world moves out of one phase into another.
LoL...Today it was 55 and windy...Im shoveling dirt thoLOL seriously enough corrections on the whole christ/christmas/ holidays thing. just say MERRY CHRISTMAS! Oh and nabin, we have already recieved around 16 inches and are expecting up to 18 more by saturday morning.......I am tired of shoveling!!!
20-24 Inches outside right now. On top of the 10 inches we already had! We are supposed to get 20 more inches by tomorrow nite still!! Its snowing and drifting real hard. 40 mph winds making 10 foot tall snow drifts in our neighborhood its insane... with wind chill its -15 degrees Its actually pretty fun heheLoL...Today it was 55 and windy...Im shoveling dirt tho
Merry Christmas to everyone out there...and Merry what ever you celerbrate or DON"T celebrate...Just love everyone..Just love some more than others
It was actual rain last night... the dawn brought the "liquid sunshine" with it and a gentle northerly breeze which is keeping it in the low to mid 70's up here in the mountains... sweater weather. ^.^Sir Kelek
Kirthag
LoL, 67 ? How can you handle the cold? The high yesterday was 25, the high today (Christmas) is supposed to be 30-35. I remember the rain when we visited Hawaii, the locals called it "Liquid Sunshine". I remember it as a very fine, gental mist, very pleasant!
Or, we could simply be rational folks who enjoy the beauty that nature presents to us without the need for some silly story about a sadomasochistic messiah figure to make sense of it all.All the atheist I have ever known are either want to be Maoist, Stalinist or leaning in the extreme statist direction.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ what he said!Or, we could simply be rational folks who enjoy the beauty that nature presents to us without the need for some silly story about a sadomasochistic messiah figure to make sense of it all.
Anyone who spends enough time learning how the universe works doesn't need a religion to experience awe due to the complexity of existence.
Nor do they necessarily align themselves with a particular political view. Science isn't political...the interpretation of it is.
no, a rational person that questions the faiths would say they don't know if there is a god (agnostic). An irrational person would say they know there is no god (atheist which are usually hard core statist.)Or, we could simply be rational folks who enjoy the beauty that nature presents to us without the need for some silly story about a sadomasochistic messiah figure to make sense of it all.All the atheist I have ever known are either want to be Maoist, Stalinist or leaning in the extreme statist direction.
Nor do they necessarily align themselves with a particular political view. Science isn't political...the interpretation of it is.
ohAnyone who spends enough time learning how the universe works doesn't need a religion to experience awe due to the complexity of existence.
no, a rational person that questions the faiths would say they don't know if there is a god (agnostic). An irrational person would say they know there is no god (atheist which are usually hard core statist.)Or, we could simply be rational folks who enjoy the beauty that nature presents to us without the need for some silly story about a sadomasochistic messiah figure to make sense of it all.All the atheist I have ever known are either want to be Maoist, Stalinist or leaning in the extreme statist direction.
Nor do they necessarily align themselves with a particular political view. Science isn't political...the interpretation of it is.
ohAnyone who spends enough time learning how the universe works doesn't need a religion to experience awe due to the complexity of existence.
so tell me what matter was combined to create the big bang which is the bases of the atheist view of the universe and were did it come from?
A. is there a science that states nothing combined with nothing creates a big bang?
B. From another dimension which is the string theory or some other theory that will come up someday. Which a theory means we don't know.
C. some creator.
D. you don't know.
if your answer was B or D then you are an agnostic not an atheist.
If you believe science isn't political then you have a lot to learn about science. The scientific method is always open to falsification. The process of learning about science has always been political and always will be. It is more so today then ever with financing coming mostly from tax money.
I agree with you on Agnosticism but not atheism. The dictionary makes it clear that it is a disbelief in any kind of god.I'm pretty sure this is starting to slip away from the OP's intended message, so I won't continue to derail the topic. You'r free to bring it up in another thread, if you like. However, I will address one issue that you have wrong:
Agnosticism isn't defined by ignorance. In other words, it has nothing to do with not knowing if a higher power exists or not. Agnosticism is defined by the concept that a higher power simply is not "knowable", regardless of its existence. In effect, it's a cop out - a way to sidestep the argument.
Likewise, atheism isn't a rejection of a "God". Instead, it's an affirmation that there are plenty of wonderful observations and experiences that we can have in this beautiful universe - and that those experiences don't require that we make up a story to pretend we know how they originate.
Christmas is a wonderful social holiday. It allows us to find an excuse to come together as a family and really take a step back in the cool midnight air and celebrate each other for who we are as humans. You don't need any more excuse than that...certainly not a belief in some silly Christ fable. Enjoy it for what it is, not what you wish it could be.
If you want answers to your other questions, make a new thread.
The Second post was Picus Complaining about the Packies??? Friends. Christmas was wonderful and yet over. All of you have made your points now lets get back to drinking some Ale..... Sunrise you in? See you at the Pub in Five!The thread was already hijacked in the second post which was incorrect about many things and needed correcting.
No,The Second post was Picus Complaining about the Packies??? Friends. Christmas was wonderful and yet over. All of you have made your points now lets get back to drinking some Ale..... Sunrise you in? See you at the Pub in Five!
Let me be the first to say "Happy New Year!! I for one am looking forward to it.!
Kirthag please fire up the fireworks!
I agree with you on Agnosticism but not atheism. The dictionary makes it clear that it is a disbelief in any kind of god.
Agnosticism whatever created the universe is not knowable thus we have no idea.
I do not see how my definition of "don't know' is different.
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/atheism+
The thread was already hijacked in the second post which was incorrect about many things and needed correcting.
Well Yes but I think We are all done now till next year. OK?No,
Pacem said Marry Christmas and picus basically said take a hike.
It was way past rude.