UOAM vs. UOCartographer

[SUPRsalad]

Im giving UOC a try right now. I will compare it to UOAM on as many levels as possible.. Ill take some screens, and report.. (if i can get it to even work!)
It sounds really promising.

 

[Gellor]

Back when this guy started, there were two being developed... one threatened to be UOAM server compatible. The other basically said "go suck a rock". Neither had a name.

 

[SUPRsalad]

First, lets take a good hard look at this cartog thing:
(http://www.uocartographer.com) and yes, we have confirmation that
it IS now sanctioned by ea/mythic.

1. looks just like uoam. Almost identical, in fact.
2. loads WAY faster than automap, and does NOT lag at ALL when you zoom in and out. (no loading time, just fluid zoom in/out.)
3. updates much faster, in regard to tracking.. (1 second update was the fastest setting on UOAM, here it seems like .5 or .25 second update, which is dope)
4. appears to have a fully functional server system for guilds.
5. yes, ter mur and the abyss, are TOTALLY up-to-date.
6. now running at around 42k, but noticed it was around 92k in fel.. So its dependent upon WHICH map is currently being used..
7. does not show server-lines. Does not show the dungeon servers and things when you are in fel. Just fel.. This is a minus, and a plus, because the maps are probably smaller in terms of kb's.
8. taking a second look, this thing fires right up without annoying stuff...
9. filtering out towns drops it to 72k.. nice.
10. So far, I can't find a way to enable the 'advanced options' which you can reformat your map files with LOW LOW detail for EVEN faster running speed.. RIGHTEOUS!!!


Looks like a solid f'ing win so far. Lets take a look at UOAM:

1. obviously, this broken update screen is annoying, as well as the 'your maps are messed up, click okay to crash this program' messages..
2. slow update speed. lags super bad when zooming in and out.
3. running at around 35k in fel. but cpu usage is actually way up.


So far, this thing looks like a SOLID f'ing win.. HERE is the link for download, and frankly, the only resource for tech support. I suggest reading THE ENTIRE THREAD! yes, kiddies, contrary to popular belief, reading will not make you stupid, nor does it hurt.. much..

http://vboards.stratics.com/showthread.php?t=168538

 

[SUPRsalad]

Back when this guy started, there were two being developed... one threatened to be UOAM server compatible. The other basically said "go suck a rock". Neither had a name.

Im going to check out the server program that came with it later. If all goes well, I hope to have SUPR switched over to UOC.. so far, this thing is win.
If we could just figure out how to enable the advanced options, I would pee a little. . .

 

[Gellor]

Here are the couple issues I have with regards to the server side of this. (again, this based upon one of these guys say "no UOAM server compatibility")

1) There are probably dozens of guilds paying for UOAM servers for whatever reason. If they pay by the year, they get to throw away that money.
2) If there is only a windows server, some guilds get thrown out on their heads due to not having a windows "server" available. This could be because nobody wants to use their home bandwidth for server or nobody wants to open their home network to potential hackers.
3) Some may be reluctant to "upgrade" to this guys mapping software. UOAM for all its flaws still works where PvP is going to happen

Personally, I wouldn't open up my home network for potential hackers. I wouldn't want to "waste" my bandwidth when PvP is "bandwidth intensive". But I do have access to an offsite unix server.

 

[Vandetta]

just did the install and ya it is running great. only downfall that I saw was when you double click and it sits on top you cant move it around. other then that I am very impressed.
cant wait to have us all on it during a fight.

 

[Pink Floyd]

UOAM doesn't work in the pvp areas of UOSA..so no it's not perfect.

 

[Lynk]

I have 2 problems with it.

#1 - When you have top most without borders selected, you cant drag the map where you want it.

#2 - They should have made an effort to make UOC compatible with UOAM servers. Most of the guilds I know use 1 of the 2 most common free map servers.

 

[Gellor]

UOAM doesn't work in the pvp areas of UOSA..so no it's not perfect.

Too bad I haven't heard any calls for UOSA areas yet

#2 - They should have made an effort to make UOC compatible with UOAM servers. Most of the guilds I know use 1 of the 2 most common free map servers.

Thank you for confirming which one this was. If I recall right, this is the same guy who wanted no compatibility with UOAM because of how bad UOAM was(no map compatibility or server)

The "sad" thing is the UOAM server code is out there so the guy could have made a straight out UOAM server compatible link up.

 

[Malador]

Too bad I haven't heard any calls for UOSA areas yet



Thank you for confirming which one this was. If I recall right, this is the same guy who wanted no compatibility with UOAM because of how bad UOAM was(no map compatibility or server)

The "sad" thing is the UOAM server code is out there so the guy could have made a straight out UOAM server compatible link up.

I am not sure what your fasination is with the dead application uo automap but you have some of your information mixed up. First UO AUTOMAP SERVER runs on windows platforms. Second the code is not available for anyone to make a compatible program.

I for one am thankfull someone is writing one that works with the current map files.

 

[Gellor]

I am not sure what your fasination is with the dead application uo automap but you have some of your information mixed up. First UO AUTOMAP SERVER runs on windows platforms. Second the code is not available for anyone to make a compatible program.

I for one am thankfull someone is writing one that works with the current map files.

No fascination over the original UOAM other than the shear number of guilds using UOAM servers(paid for or not) If guilds are paying for a UOAM server, they will be reluctant to ditch their server until their "lease" is up.

I'll use whatever version my guild eventually decides on.

But, I see reading comprehension owns you. I listed reasons but JUST for you, let me cut and paste from my own previous post for you to read yet again(I'll remove the windows server issue):

1) There are probably dozens of guilds paying for UOAM servers for whatever reason. If they pay by the year, they get to throw away that money.
2) Some may be reluctant to "upgrade" to this guys mapping software. UOAM for all its flaws still works where PvP is going to happen

Wait... you mean this:
http://max.kellermann.name/projects/uoamhub/
isn't source code for a UOAM compatible server? Oh hell, wish I would have known that This link was provided in the original discussion thread of making a UOAM replacement program that UOCartographer came about from. It was available to the developer of UOCartographer but he ignored it even after it was provided AND people presented reasons why rudimentary compatibility with a UOAM server was a good idea.

So, what is this about not being able to NOT make a UOAM server compatible map?

Unfortunately, for whatever reasons, the original discussion thread got removed from stratics

 

[Pink Floyd]

UO Cartographer also takes about 10x the system resources to run.

 

[KalVasTENKI]

UO Cartographer also takes about 10x the system resources to run.

I feared that.

 

[SUPRsalad]

UO Cartographer also takes about 10x the system resources to run.

umm... false.. if you turn the detail down, it runs about half of what UOAM uses..

 

[Eyes of Origin]

When I run UOAM I can literally hear my fans kicking on cause of the CPU usage it has, where as UOC is so smooth and I havent even heard the fans click on once =/ The new map is pretty awesome so far. Only thing is not being able to use it for a whole guild

 

[Malador]

No fascination over the original UOAM other than the shear number of guilds using UOAM servers(paid for or not) If guilds are paying for a UOAM server, they will be reluctant to ditch their server until their "lease" is up.

Yes those paying for servers are stuck with outdated maps until their lease is up or they can simply say goodbye to the 15 dollars they paid for hosting and switch to a working program.

But, I see reading comprehension owns you. I listed reasons but JUST for you, let me cut and paste from my own previous post for you to read yet again(I'll remove the windows server issue):


Wait... you mean this:
http://---------------------------------
isn't source code for a UOAM compatible server? Oh hell, wish I would have known that This link was provided in the original discussion thread of making a UOAM replacement program that UOCartographer came about from. It was available to the developer of UOCartographer but he ignored it even after it was provided AND people presented reasons why rudimentary compatibility with a UOAM server was a good idea.

So, what is this about not being able to NOT make a UOAM server compatible map?

So where is the code for automap. The server doesn't do **** except transfer location packets. How are you going to get the map data up to date considering the actual mapping code is not available?

Further I am sure some people, although you clearly are not one of them, respect the original authors intellectual property rights and copyrights. This map server is a violation of the original authors copyright. I might be wrong but I don't see any legitimate business hosting this. If they are they probably are not aware that Max does not have the rights to it.

Unfortunately, for whatever reasons, the original discussion thread got removed from stratics

I am sure it was removed because of two reasons. One it is stolen code. Two it is not approved. It is my understanding that officially UPC has been approved.

 

[Pink Floyd]

umm... false.. if you turn the detail down, it runs about half of what UOAM uses..

the amount of ram it took freaked me for a sec but yeah I see that now

 

[SUPRsalad]

1 Yes those paying for servers are stuck with outdated maps until their lease is up or they can simply say goodbye to the 15 dollars they paid for hosting and switch to a working program.


2 So where is the code for automap. The server doesn't do **** except transfer location packets. How are you going to get the map data up to date considering the actual mapping code is not available?

3 Further I am sure some people, although you clearly are not one of them, respect the original authors intellectual property rights and copyrights. This map server is a violation of the original authors copyright. I might be wrong but I don't see any legitimate business hosting this. If they are they probably are not aware that Max does not have the rights to it.



4 I am sure it was removed because of two reasons. One it is stolen code. Two it is not approved. It is my understanding that officially UPC has been approved.

I numbered your statements. Ill address each:
1. Or, you could simply ask your host to switch over.. Only a d-bag host wouldn't, frankly.. Its actually SO much easier than the automap server.

2. The map code died with the map.. Thats why he made his own..

3. False. On every level, false. This is in fact, the very REASON that it is not compatible with automap servers.. The truth is, he could have easily done that, but yeah, you're right.. thats illegal..

4. Not trying to sound snide here, but you're being rude, and making totally unfounded accusations. One, as I explained, its an original code, and he owns the rights to it. Two, it has been approved.

Read before you make blind assumptions. Again, not trying to be mean here, but the guy has SELFLESSLY worked his ass off, for the benefit of us all.. You're being really rude.


Also, Gellor, the original discusstion hasn't gone anyware, that I am aware of.
Right here where I left it: http://vboards.stratics.com/showthread.php?p=1507554&posted=1#post1507554

and ALSO, i got the server up and running flawlessly. I'll have the whole of SUPR running uoc first thing in the AM, and yes, we are totally legal to do so..

 

[Pink Floyd]

This program is excellent and was much needed I wholeheartedly endorse it in every way.

 

[Lynk]

I wish you hadn't quoted Malador, I clicked a few buttons so I wouldn't have to read his messages but you bypassed it.

The truth is Malbador is obsessed with me because I kill him constantly. He seeks out my threads on all shards I play and tries to throw his two cents in. Fortunately you have all just witnessed how full of **** and stupid he can potentially be.

Thanks Malbador for posting here. Please continue to follow me and dramatically increase the number of people that don't like you.

 

[Petra Fyde]

Small correction guys. EA have said they won't penalize anyone for using this, that's not the same thing as 'approved'. It is not part of the uo pro program.
Puts it roughly on a par with stuff like the 1st year leather dye tub which is deemed to be 'not illegal'.

If anyone finds a way to exploit it to gain an advantage over people that stance could change, rapidly.

 

[Gellor]

Thank you Petra.

Also, the other "huge" difference between UOC and UOAM is the fact that OSI/EA/Mythic went over UOAM to ensure that it was also safe... ie no malicious code to it. This isn't to say UOC has malicious code in it. In my talks with the dev during the alpha development and some last night, he seems to be genuine UO concerned.

Also Gemma, the link you provide is UOC's release discussion. NOT the very original discussion of "why don't we create a UOAM replacement" and the subsequent e-thugging that resulted between UOC and another guy over "my map replacement was better". Actually UOC guy was pleasant, the other guy was a bit over the top *rolleyes*

And lastly to the troll that follows lync, last I looked, there was a magic % number or actual number of differences that differentiated between valid clone and illegal clone. I believe reverse engineering a communication protocol was one of the things allowed. Please show proof if you can refute this claim other than "because I said so".

As for the comment about the server code I provided... what do you expect a unix based UOAM server to do beyond login authentication and passing data packets? Make lattes for everyone

 

[SUPRsalad]

'not illegal' is the same as 'sanctioned' for us..
You think we are all gonig to wait arond for the powers-at-be to give it full asylum? We've needed it for a long time, and we're taking the ball, and running with it, whether its the right ball for the game or not... we just need a damn ball. Also, I don't see any possible way to use this to an advantage.. It IS an advantage, in, and of itself..

Lynk, I wasn't trying to be mean there, but man.. Talk about looking a gift hoarse in the mouth..

 

[SUPRsalad]

Thank you Petra.

Also, the other "huge" difference between UOC and UOAM is the fact that OSI/EA/Mythic went over UOAM to ensure that it was also safe... ie no malicious code to it. This isn't to say UOC has malicious code in it. In my talks with the dev during the alpha development and some last night, he seems to be genuine UO concerned.

Also Gemma, the link you provide is UOC's release discussion. NOT the very original discussion of "why don't we create a UOAM replacement" and the subsequent e-thugging that resulted between UOC and another guy over "my map replacement was better". Actually UOC guy was pleasant, the other guy was a bit over the top *rolleyes*

And lastly to the troll that follows lync, last I looked, there was a magic % number or actual number of differences that differentiated between valid clone and illegal clone. I believe reverse engineering a communication protocol was one of the things allowed. Please show proof if you can refute this claim other than "because I said so".

As for the comment about the server code I provided... what do you expect a unix based UOAM server to do beyond login authentication and passing data packets? Make lattes for everyone

I'll take a double-white mocha.. skim milk please..

edit: i missed the e-thug thread..

 

[Gellor]

Found the ethug original thread here:
http://vboards.stratics.com/showthread.php?t=153886&highlight=screen+shot

UOC developer appears to have edited out the source link I provided above.

I do like the fact that UOC developer is considering making some of the server related code for the possibility of a linux server. Could be fun to play with and make a "dynamic" guild server that has webpage admin availability for something like 1 hour servers

 

[Malador]

I numbered your statements. Ill address each:
1. Or, you could simply ask your host to switch over.. Only a d-bag host wouldn't, frankly.. Its actually SO much easier than the automap server.

2. The map code died with the map.. Thats why he made his own..

3. False. On every level, false. This is in fact, the very REASON that it is not compatible with automap servers.. The truth is, he could have easily done that, but yeah, you're right.. thats illegal..

4. Not trying to sound snide here, but you're being rude, and making totally unfounded accusations. One, as I explained, its an original code, and he owns the rights to it. Two, it has been approved.

Read before you make blind assumptions. Again, not trying to be mean here, but the guy has SELFLESSLY worked his ass off, for the benefit of us all.. You're being really rude.


Also, Gellor, the original discusstion hasn't gone anyware, that I am aware of.
Right here where I left it: http://vboards.stratics.com/showthread.php?p=1507554&posted=1#post1507554

and ALSO, i got the server up and running flawlessly. I'll have the whole of SUPR running uoc first thing in the AM, and yes, we are totally legal to do so..

I think you have mistaken me Suprasalad. It is possible you should go back and read gellers posts again and then read mine. I was refering to the illegally produced uo automap compatible server that lacks any actual map tool support. This is the tool geller thinks we should be using even though it is only the server and lacks a mapping tool. Even though it is an illegally reverse engineered copy of the origonal map server.

UO Cartographer is legite. I agree.

 

[Malador]

I wish you hadn't quoted Malador, I clicked a few buttons so I wouldn't have to read his messages but you bypassed it.

The truth is Malbador is obsessed with me because I kill him constantly. He seeks out my threads on all shards I play and tries to throw his two cents in. Fortunately you have all just witnessed how full of **** and stupid he can potentially be.

Thanks Malbador for posting here. Please continue to follow me and dramatically increase the number of people that don't like you.

Dynk you have some serious personality issues. You should seek counseling.

 

[Malador]

And lastly to the troll that follows lync, last I looked, there was a magic % number or actual number of differences that differentiated between valid clone and illegal clone. I believe reverse engineering a communication protocol was one of the things allowed. Please show proof if you can refute this claim other than "because I said so".

As for the comment about the server code I provided... what do you expect a unix based UOAM server to do beyond login authentication and passing data packets? Make lattes for everyone

There is no magical number of anything. If I create intellectual property, such as a communication protocal, I own it. If you use it without my let you have violated federal copyright laws. I shall not even attempt to prove it to you as it is a moot point. No one is going to be using that server because there is no working mapping tool to use with it. You can read up on copyright infringement yourself here.

That is all each of the three servers will do but that is not the point. The point is UOC has a mapping tool that works. UOAM and UOAMHUB do not.

 

[SUPRsalad]

I think you have mistaken me Suprasalad. It is possible you should go back and read gellers posts again and then read mine. I was refering to the illegally produced uo automap compatible server that lacks any actual map tool support. This is the tool geller thinks we should be using even though it is only the server and lacks a mapping tool. Even though it is an illegally reverse engineered copy of the origonal map server.

UO Cartographer is legite. I agree.

oh..
my bad..
i get weird in the early am before cofee..

 

[Gellor]

There is no magical number of anything. If I create intellectual property, such as a communication protocal, I own it. If you use it without my let you have violated federal copyright laws. I shall not even attempt to prove it to you as it is a moot point. No one is going to be using that server because there is no working mapping tool to use with it. You can read up on copyright infringement yourself here.

Are you really pulling the wiki as a reference? Really? How about pointing to something not known to be suspect? Point me to something specific that says "if someone creates a protocol, it can't be reverse engineered and used".

By your logic of "there is no magic number", there are SEVERAL companies that are in deep trouble for software... but the three cases that stand out are:

1. Microsoft for cloning Apple's OS to create windows
2. Microsoft for cloning existing web browsers to create IE
3. UOCartographer for cloning UO Automap

My "complaint" is that UO Cartographer is NOT UO Pro approved and never will be. Given that it is NOT UO Pro, there is no one who has checked for anything malicious with the code. Because of this small issue of no check, some people will not upgrade to UO Cartographer and I personally can't fault them. Getting untrusted software is what leads to bad things.

Because of this non conversion, it would have been nice to have a UOAM hook available in his client. Because until this project takes off, there aren't going to be any public free UOC servers available. And opening up one's home network is a risky proposition given the "win at all costs" attitude that some people bring to UO... especially in PvP.

As for the availability of a Unix version of the UOC server, that is something that could be argued in terms of Unix vs Windows security for a server.

None of this will stop me from running UOC because the little I've used it seems pretty solid.

 

[Malador]

Are you really pulling the wiki as a reference? Really? How about pointing to something not known to be suspect? Point me to something specific that says "if someone creates a protocol, it can't be reverse engineered and used".

Ok then study this. I hope the goverments website is up to your standards.

By your logic of "there is no magic number",

I simply stated a fact.

there are SEVERAL companies that are in deep trouble for software... but the three cases that stand out are:

1. Microsoft for cloning Apple's OS to create windows
2. Microsoft for cloning existing web browsers to create IE
3. UOCartographer for cloning UO Automap

I am sorry but you have lost me. Which intelectual property did each of these companies steal.

I think you are confused. it is not illegal to create a similar work. It is only illegal to steal the work of others. None of the authors you mention did anything but create similar works or in the case of microsoft they usually just buy the product and include it into thier own.

My "complaint" is that UO Cartographer is NOT UO Pro approved and never will be. Given that it is NOT UO Pro, there is no one who has checked for anything malicious with the code. Because of this small issue of no check, some people will not upgrade to UO Cartographer and I personally can't fault them. Getting untrusted software is what leads to bad things.

Oh your right cause no one uses any of the illegal third party apps that already exist.

Because of this non conversion, it would have been nice to have a UOAM hook available in his client. Because until this project takes off, there aren't going to be any public free UOC servers available. And opening up one's home network is a risky proposition given the "win at all costs" attitude that some people bring to UO... especially in PvP.

LMAO you have not thought this through very well. So lets say The author of UOC puts hooks in for UOAM forgetting for a moment that it would be illegal for him to do so without permission from the author of uoam, how exactly will he get his application UO Approved since the program has been closed for nearly a decade.

I think you are unclear on what the issue is with automap. The issue is not in the server. The issue is in the client. The client does not understand the new map files. The client needs to be updated. According to the author that is never going to happen. So even if the author of UOC used the protocols from UOAM his client would not be approved.

As for the availability of a Unix version of the UOC server, that is something that could be argued in terms of Unix vs Windows security for a server.

There is no legal unix map server. I thought we had already covered this. The legal map server runs as a windows service and requires very little system resources and only one port open I believe. It represents very little network risk since the network firewall can port forward directly to the machine running map server.

None of this will stop me from running UOC because the little I've used it seems pretty solid.

Isnt that big of you

 

[RichDC]

?
My "complaint" is that UO Cartographer is NOT UO Pro approved and never will be. Given that it is NOT UO Pro, there is no one who has checked for anything malicious with the code. Because of this small issue of no check, some people will not upgrade to UO Cartographer and I personally can't fault them. Getting untrusted software is what leads to bad things.

Although its not approved and never will be, manly due to the time it takes, Kwillian last i checked had actually given the code to the authors of the mod exchange website.

Lots of people who write skins for the enhanced client will be able to check it...i dont see someone who would write harmful code into software doing this.

Also, what woud he gain??

He has selfessly worked his ass of replacing UOAM and done a frikkin good job at it!

 

[SetItOff]

Im gonna have to say this UOC is probally over a thousand times better then UOAM

our guild now uses it and its so ****ing legit...

.2 response time MAYBE less, Maps for ter mur new dungeons ect. ect

BYE UOAM WE WONT MISS YOU!

(hint hint wink wink it works with that R program not only uoassist if anyone like me is wondering not saying i use it but its valued information i think)

-edit,, why with all this talk we have a server running on UOC and nothing has yet to happen... do you really think your going to get anywhere by bashing the program because you think its Quote on quote Unsafe?

 

[Wargasm11]

-edit,, why with all this talk we have a server running on UOC and nothing has yet to happen... do you really think your going to get anywhere by bashing the program because you think its Quote on quote Unsafe?

i agree...even though you don't seem to understand what Quote Unquote means..but then again maybe you've just been reading too many of stu's posts.. not your fault

 

[KalVasTENKI]

Going to test this program out today and I will post my review.

Hopefully I have enough RAM for it to be usable.

 

[SetItOff]

i agree...even though you don't seem to understand what Quote Unquote means..but then again maybe you've just been reading too many of stu's posts.. not your fault

yeah you understand now hahah