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Ivorythorn
Guest
UGH! If that's the case then, well, WTF??? Why can't they be consistent???
Drop the red crystals on Tomas to get the costumes, but on the sick gypsies you double click, then target???
WHY CHANGE IT???
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Blue Crystals & sick Gypsies : Should have been designed better ?
Drop the red crystals on Tomas to get the costumes, but on the sick gypsies you double click, then target???
WHY CHANGE IT???
You'll get him. Just save your crystals and wait. He changes to an orc every 2 hours...
I haven't had any problems with this quest at all. I usually stealth in to make sure no one is watching me and then I start clicking away.
I haven't had to use 50 blue containers yet. It has been around 32 to 46 but I always go with over 50 just in case.
I haven't had to use 50 blue containers yet. It has been around 32 to 46 but I always go with over 50 just in case.
i find it humorous when someone gives in like 45 crystals then some other guy gives in 5 and gets the robe, im glad they setup the system that way, i've gotten 8 robes already with the least amount of crystals needed being 25 so i'm not complaining... go to felucca to do it if you keep getting beat in tram
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Tandek
Guest
The problem is that the "luck" aspect is being skewed by griefers. Luck would mean every crystal has (for example) a 1 in 100 chance of curing a gypsy. "Lucky" players will cure with 1-10 crystals, unlucky players won't cure with 200. Instead, we ended up with a competition between players, where players "in the know" of the mechanics can grief those who don't. If you are the only one curing the gypsy, there is no "luck" at all. If there are 10 people all curing at the same time, your chances greatly diminish and are dependent on how quickly you can double click. That would be fine, if it was the intention. According to the Sakkarah's own post, indeed it was supposed to be about luck. Obviously, it's not.
It's simply bad design and/or bad communication by Mythic. Hopefully they learn from this. I've learned not to even bother with these "special events" until I hear exactly how the mechanics behind them work. It will certainly ruin some of the fun, but I don't want to be bit by this kind of thing in the future.
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Tandek
Guest
I don't find it humorous in the slightest. This shows exactly the issue with this system. One player had no chance with 45 crystals. The 2nd used what was likely the misinformation of the first to benefit. It's not funny. It's bad design. This specificly was designed to take enjoyment of the event away from the first player to give to the second. Outright terrible design.
Oh, and go to the PvP lands if the PvP in the PvM lands is too hard? Wow.
This is one of the reasons I haven't bothered with the quest and why I doubt I will buy one of the robes from a vendor. I have no intention of supporting this kind of game design or people who blatantly take advantage of it. As someone else pointed out last night, seeing things added to the game that further stoke player greed and cause ever more insidious conflict between players is making it a lot easier to stop wasting time and money playing UO.
This is not a complaint about me obtaining robes. I actually have 2 and didn't expect to obtain any. However, I dislike this quest on many levels. The time spend gathering the blue crystals to complete it is not trivial. The fact that another player can come along and completely negate that time spent is poor design. Also, I would feel terrible to obtain a robe at another player's expense. These are people I play with, not my enemies. It's also a perfect magnet for people who enjoy causing some type of harm to another player. Don't we already have about a million other ways for players to shaft one another? I hope this is not a step toward the "Wild West" direction UO supposedly is taking.
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Connor_Graham
Guest
It had better not be. If game mechanics are made such that Fel actions are added into Tram activities, then UO will be short lived. This quest is nothing short of adding legalized stealing into Tram, and I can't believe a certain Dev thinks we're stupid enough to believe it's a "luck" factor. That's BS, it's stealing.
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northwoodschopper
Guest
i bet from all this negative feedback, the devs aren't going to try anymore. no biggie, there's still tons of things to play for outside of these events, right?
i may have missed something, but how does these "robe thieves" know how many crystals youve dropped? how do they know when to drop the last one? Its a conspiracy I tells ya! yes I too hated the way this worked at first, but then realized who cares about an extra 140 luck? especially since luck is still broken on many loot tables. so I grabbed a yellow crystal and got me a normal robe off harby, saved hours of blue crystal farming and headache. One thing that I dont understand is, why people want them to fix/change something thats going to be turned off soon anyways. why have them waste thier time?
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Mephistos
Guest
Or better yet, they can take all this criticism and learn from it and apply it to the next event? Wouldn't that make more sense than just throwing up their arms and saying "I'm just not going to try anymore"? I'm pretty sure giving up isn't in their job descriptions.
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northwoodschopper
Guest
more like, they'll just put some npc that will outright give you the event item for very little effort so everyone can receive one with no competition, since competition is frowned upon it seems.
I bet Sak makes it worse. (I think)She values the individual only for what they contribute to the community. I would not be suprised if future events rely more heavily on the concept of teamwork to overcome adversity. And the best sort of adversity is from other players. Much more challenging than finding the flaw in the latest AI and exploiting it.
Or how about they create a system that doesn't create an extreme of one side or another? It's not this way or the high way which some people seem to think it is. This system sucks and has pissed off many players. I also have 2 robes so it's not because I want something handed to me either.
I don't for one second think that anyone with the intelligence needed to create and code this system did not intend for the conflict it created. This was either a test of the player base to this kind of situation or a severe lack in judgement on the part of those involved. I'm in agreement with those who see this type of system leading us down a road that will cause players to begin abstaining from future events like it and ultimately find a game where their time is spent in a manner that is rewarding to them.
My disgust with this event and several that have preceded it is how they encourage people to be nasty/mean/devious. Competition is fine; however, if the developers of UO continue to go in the direction of encouraging such attitudes and actions outside of Fel, then I'm finished with it.
I understand UO is just a game and sometimes people enjoy using it as an outlet to behave in ways they wouldn't otherwise behave. However, I rarely feel the need to use UO as an outlet for being a rotten SOB to someone else, especially an anonymous or semi-anonymous "someone else." If future events or activities make me feel as if UO has become nothing more than a means to pay to be a cyber-bully in a fantasy setting, I'm done with it. That isn't the kind of person I want to be and I damn well won't pay someone to inch me or anyone else further down that path.
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Tandek
Guest
Hey, I'm all for that. Community events are very cool, if done well and communicated as such. Especially if the event has a feature that includes PvP of any kind. At that point, people can decide if the event is for them or not, and nobody should be complaining.
One of my ideas (and others likely thought of this) was that to cure a gypsy, you first turned in 50 or so crystals to the Hag for a "cure potion", and then you needed 10-20 other players all using the cure potions in conjuction to cure the gypsy. Then everyone involved gets the reward. That would require folks to "hunt down" others with crystals and you would see folks openning Gates to the gypsies and shouting out for help curing a certain gypsy.
For PvP, in Fel make the escenses only available off other player's bodies if that player is in killed in a dungeon. The dungeons will likely become a bloodbath, if anyone actually cares about PvP.
Instead we have folks hidden next to the gypsy, waiting for some hapless player to apply 10-20 crystals before starting themselves, and turning into a "fun" game of "who can click the fastest?".
The issue is that this was not communicated as a "community event" or competition. It was instead somebody's flawed concept of "luck".
I keep seeing "fel behavior" references to this event. Tram was created because people would kill and loot other players dry before they got two steps outside of a guard zone.
In Trammel:
1. You can not attack other players
2. You can not Steal from other players.
That's about it. Trammel was never created with the intent that everyone in should sit content to graze off the fruits of the land unmolested. If this were the situation everyone would log into their own instance of Sosaria, placing castles wherever they wished and sitting in the middle of things like a ToT spawn w/o any worries that anyone would steal "their" spawn.
There is no light w/o darkness. Just as 5 people may help you defeat the bad guy in a tram spawn, One other player may well pop in a get looting rights w/o any effort and "steal" your item. To expect Trammel to be free of any sort of "negative" player interaction is delusional.
In Trammel:
1. You can not attack other players
2. You can not Steal from other players.
That's about it. Trammel was never created with the intent that everyone in should sit content to graze off the fruits of the land unmolested. If this were the situation everyone would log into their own instance of Sosaria, placing castles wherever they wished and sitting in the middle of things like a ToT spawn w/o any worries that anyone would steal "their" spawn.
There is no light w/o darkness. Just as 5 people may help you defeat the bad guy in a tram spawn, One other player may well pop in a get looting rights w/o any effort and "steal" your item. To expect Trammel to be free of any sort of "negative" player interaction is delusional.
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northwoodschopper
Guest
better yet, maybe the devs should stick with 'shard of the dead' special server-like events rather than introduce live content on the shards. this way, everyone has equal footing in all events, and it's all good fun as it has no effect on the real characters if theres exploits and such.
really, is this any different than a player coming along randomly to 'steal' your kill or beating you to a vendor to buy that item you've been saving for?
really, is this any different than a player coming along randomly to 'steal' your kill or beating you to a vendor to buy that item you've been saving for?
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Ivorythorn
Guest
I am really disappointed in this aspect of the quest. Up to the point of turning in the crystals, everything is fine. Last night I stayed within sight of Carl for most of the full two hours, because I couldn't find any other gypsies.
So I kill orcs, more orcs, and finally Carl changes back to an orc. At this point I feel it would have been kind to be able to kill him and put him out of his misery, but no, of course you can't harm Carl. Now if I were him when I get get changed back to human, I would run for home, instead of staying in the Orc mines. But I digress.... So he changes back, and I DOUBLE CLICK on the blue crystals, and it works. No one else is around, as far as I can tell, and I proceed to use all of my crystals, all 45 of them. One person shows up, but wow, they either don't see Carl, already have all the robes they want, or they are being kind, and are letting me finish. Anyway, I use up all my crystals, and no robe. I hang around a for a while to see if he gets healed by a stealther, but no he doesn't. I guess I should have waited until I had over 70, but there are other things I wanted to do, and wanted to finish the quest, get ONE robe, and move on. Now I have to start all over. I've got 9 more blues, and some reds, enough for a costume, or more if I use other characters, I have on a second account.
Personally, I think they should have limited the robes to one per account, or maybe one per character. That may have been the way to go. The whole random number of crystals is also bogus, it should have been one set amount. I don't care if that number was 100 or 150, as long as I get the freaking robe!
Well, I do have 6 harbinger crystals... and will probably get more. The RNG is funky as funky can be...
So I kill orcs, more orcs, and finally Carl changes back to an orc. At this point I feel it would have been kind to be able to kill him and put him out of his misery, but no, of course you can't harm Carl. Now if I were him when I get get changed back to human, I would run for home, instead of staying in the Orc mines. But I digress.... So he changes back, and I DOUBLE CLICK on the blue crystals, and it works. No one else is around, as far as I can tell, and I proceed to use all of my crystals, all 45 of them. One person shows up, but wow, they either don't see Carl, already have all the robes they want, or they are being kind, and are letting me finish. Anyway, I use up all my crystals, and no robe. I hang around a for a while to see if he gets healed by a stealther, but no he doesn't. I guess I should have waited until I had over 70, but there are other things I wanted to do, and wanted to finish the quest, get ONE robe, and move on. Now I have to start all over. I've got 9 more blues, and some reds, enough for a costume, or more if I use other characters, I have on a second account.
Personally, I think they should have limited the robes to one per account, or maybe one per character. That may have been the way to go. The whole random number of crystals is also bogus, it should have been one set amount. I don't care if that number was 100 or 150, as long as I get the freaking robe!
Well, I do have 6 harbinger crystals... and will probably get more. The RNG is funky as funky can be...
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Mephistos
Guest
That is one extreme way they could take all events, sure, but where is the application of all the constructive criticism? How about next time, you turn in 50 blue crystals, you get the non-luck version of the robe. Turn in 150 more blue crystals, plus the non-luck version, and get the luck version of the robe. Turn in an additional 500 blue crystals, plus the luck version, and get something else, etc. etc. That way, you get increasing difficulty of the reward, so people can have their "rare" version, but you get rewarded according to how much time you put in, and not shafted at the last minute by some hidden jerk standing by the npcs that need to be healed?
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Spoz
Guest
This is rediculous - just run to Felucca in one of the dungeons to hand over the crystals. Do it on a stealther if you're really cowardly.
I've been training tracking so I camped a Gypsy at Ice dungeon to see who came. Noone. Infact it went unchanged. I checked the one in Orc fort for a couple of hours - again noone came at all, even stealthed.
I've also used them to deliever my own crystals - 4 luck robes I've got from Fel, never having a problem at all and they've always been in monster form. Of course I had to use about 50 each time since noone else had put any on them, but still at least it was a sure thing.
Finally if you really are scared of losing crystals you could insure them before you go to Felucca - at 50 x 600 insurance thats only 30,000 for a robe worth a lot more.
If you play only in Trammel where there are 20 times as many players... so expect spawns/rares to be 20 times as camped. Don't complain when it also backfires.
I've been training tracking so I camped a Gypsy at Ice dungeon to see who came. Noone. Infact it went unchanged. I checked the one in Orc fort for a couple of hours - again noone came at all, even stealthed.
I've also used them to deliever my own crystals - 4 luck robes I've got from Fel, never having a problem at all and they've always been in monster form. Of course I had to use about 50 each time since noone else had put any on them, but still at least it was a sure thing.
Finally if you really are scared of losing crystals you could insure them before you go to Felucca - at 50 x 600 insurance thats only 30,000 for a robe worth a lot more.
If you play only in Trammel where there are 20 times as many players... so expect spawns/rares to be 20 times as camped. Don't complain when it also backfires.
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Ivorythorn
Guest
A
Aboo
Guest
I believe anyone has every right to complain when a quest is poorly implemented and gives griefers PLENTY of room to do just that - GRIEF.
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The Fallout
Guest
Isn't griefing when you are bothering someone to ruin their experience? This is just people trying to get robes as quick as possible. Hardly griefing. I have yet to get a robe btw.
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Spoz
Guest
I never see any messages when someone places a blue gem on a gypsy, so what chance do people have to grief? They just place as much as they can on the guy at the same time as someone else. Its not personal, its just down to luck which of you gets it and everyone has equal chance. That is if you decide to do it at populated places during peak times.
This is probably going to kill me, but popps might have a valid complaint...
ARRGGHHH...i think its my heart
But seriously, before I tried to turn in any blue crystals, I read about the issue with someone being able to turn in a single crystal and "steal" you robe, and I was a bit worried about it. Then I tried to turn in my crystals......and could not find a single one of the gypsies that was not already healed...over a couple of days (guess you would need to be on at server up to do this.
Well, I finally stayed up all night (yes, I am an idiot), went down to the Solen Hive, and turned in my crystals and got my robe. At the same time, the devs altered the gypsies refresh (now I really feel like an idiot for staying up all night).
Since then, I have turned in blue crystals whenever I hit about 70 in my pack, so i have hit all times of the day, and guess what? I have never had an issue with someone else turning in and trying to get "my" robe.
Now, this may be because of my superior game play - I take a stealth character to do it, so maybe noone knows thagt i am turning in when I do - although i hate walking (too slow) - so I ride right up to the gypsy and then hide before I am targeted, so if anyone was watching, they would know that I was there, si I actually believe that I am alone when I have done my turn ins.
Noe this is on Chessie, and perhaps on a more populated shard there might be issues, or maybe we on Chessie are just more of a community than some other shards. So come to Chessie and play
How many people have actually had someone intentionally take their robe? Is this actually a problem? I mean, is someone actually wasting their time waiting by the gypsies to get robes that way?
ARRGGHHH...i think its my heart
But seriously, before I tried to turn in any blue crystals, I read about the issue with someone being able to turn in a single crystal and "steal" you robe, and I was a bit worried about it. Then I tried to turn in my crystals......and could not find a single one of the gypsies that was not already healed...over a couple of days (guess you would need to be on at server up to do this.
Well, I finally stayed up all night (yes, I am an idiot), went down to the Solen Hive, and turned in my crystals and got my robe. At the same time, the devs altered the gypsies refresh (now I really feel like an idiot for staying up all night).
Since then, I have turned in blue crystals whenever I hit about 70 in my pack, so i have hit all times of the day, and guess what? I have never had an issue with someone else turning in and trying to get "my" robe.
Now, this may be because of my superior game play - I take a stealth character to do it, so maybe noone knows thagt i am turning in when I do - although i hate walking (too slow) - so I ride right up to the gypsy and then hide before I am targeted, so if anyone was watching, they would know that I was there, si I actually believe that I am alone when I have done my turn ins.
Noe this is on Chessie, and perhaps on a more populated shard there might be issues, or maybe we on Chessie are just more of a community than some other shards
. So come to Chessie and play How many people have actually had someone intentionally take their robe? Is this actually a problem? I mean, is someone actually wasting their time waiting by the gypsies to get robes that way?
haha i can tell you never played when there was no Tram, sadly i did not either but i have heard many stories of those glory days... there was a time when griefing was rampant in UO which i guess people didn't like for some reason and so tram was created to accommodate carebear type players who don't want other players to bother them in any way, most original griefers have quit uo many years ago and a lot of them now play the new mmo Darkfall which is one thing i love about it, i enjoy a good griefing here and there but i'm not as bad as i used to be, years ago i would pretend i couldn't rez when someone died in a dungeon in tram and then i would loot their bones
there are no robe thieves in tram, waiting in stealth for you to use your blue crystals. the main complaint is that you dont know exactly how many blues ya need. yea it woulda been nice to have it count for you like Tomas does for costumes, but its almost done so dont hope for a change. Just get your 70 blues and goto a less traveled gypsy and heal for your lame luck robe.
required for normal conj garb - a yellow crystal and an hour of fighting
required for 140 luck conj garb - at least 4-5 hours of crystal farming and a fel unhealed gypsy.
take your pick, get a garb, and be thankful theres any new items for the holiday.
required for normal conj garb - a yellow crystal and an hour of fighting
required for 140 luck conj garb - at least 4-5 hours of crystal farming and a fel unhealed gypsy.
take your pick, get a garb, and be thankful theres any new items for the holiday.
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Connor_Graham
Guest
Are you really that naive? It's been proven many times over that, yes, there are.
not on my shard
Other than yourself right?
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Mustarik
Guest
Fundamentally, there should be encouragement to cooperate, particularly in a quest like this where the goal is to cure someone. It's great that some of you feel the need to compete, but frankly, there's already enough competition in the game. I'm tired of competing ALL THE TIME for the most trivial of things. The OP is right, a little more thought needed to go into this one to avoid the situation.
you cant sit in stealth and count how many crystals another player is using, therefore there are no robe thieves. to steal a robe from someone in tram youd have to be able to see how many crystals the person is using and know exactly when to drop yours to "steal" thier robe. someone else sitting near the npc you want to heal? try another. dont have at least 50 blues? dont bother using any. its simple really. think a stealther is there watching you? then pretend to drop all your crystals and say something like "ah man, 50 crystals and no robe!" this should make the non existant stealther drop his crystals thinkin its a easy robe. the thought of people knowingly stealing your robe chance is as crazy as the idea that sasquatch and Nessy play backgammon in the bermuda triangle.
Paranoia will Destroy ya
Paranoia will Destroy ya
I remember the fel only days. A few of my fondest in game memories come from those times. The only prized possesion I had was a silver vanq (i forget the accuracy mod) double axe. I got it T-hunting and it actually drew a small crowd of awe stricken fans when I was wielding it at Brit bank. As soon as I pulled it out of the chest I thought eventually I would lose it to a gank. But I actually lost it almost a year later to a dc while fighting on an island w/no healer. My corpse decayed before I could get back.haha i can tell you never played when there was no Tram, sadly i did not either but i have heard many stories of those glory days... there was a time when griefing was rampant in UO which i guess people didn't like for some reason and so tram was created to accommodate carebear type players who don't want other players to bother them in any way, most original griefers have quit uo many years ago and a lot of them now play the new mmo Darkfall which is one thing i love about it, i enjoy a good griefing here and there but i'm not as bad as i used to be, years ago i would pretend i couldn't rez when someone died in a dungeon in tram and then i would loot their bones
But when I got the axe, I learned how to PvP well enough to at least escape with it. In many cases to kill those who tried to take it from me. I wasn't going to lose it to another player.
The main difference between those days and today was that everything you tried to do eventually involved some sort of knowledge about PvP. If you did not know how to at least fight off another player long enough to escape, you were basically a bottom feeder. Running usually meant dying. But slapping someone w/a dp'd katana could buy you enough time to get out of there in most situations.
So that is where the game improved (to me). I was happy to see tram just to get a house. But going out (w/o trying to sneak out of town) and gathering resources or farming gold w/o constantly looking over my shoulder was a very welcome bonus. I knew it would not be the end of bad experiences w/players. But the rules were more than sufficient to allow me and many others to experience and flourish in alot of the other systems this game had to offer.
One of the negative offshoots from the split was the overwhelming sense of entitlement some players now feel when everything isn't handed to them. And yes you may have to jump through hoops to get to that "prize" but if there is no intervention either through RNG or other players then it IS handed to you.
Of all the fussing I have read here I have seen no mention of the jack-o-lantern reward. I recall to all the pumpkin fields between every few sparkle runs hoping a Sak/Draconi lantern will have poped. One night another player was always at the same 3 Brit fields keeping them cleared of pumkins (I assume) camping for the rare drop.
Over three hours of robe quest activities I would occasionally run through to see of any lanterns were there. The same player was always there patiently camping. On my last run a rare lantern was spawned in the field farthest away from him/her. I took it. Am I a griefer now? Was that player entitled to every rare pumpkin in the patch because he/she spent three hours of their time camping it? Did the devs screw it up because they didnt make the lantern spawn their pack? Would it make a difference if the rare pumpkins had 140 luck? Or have we all become so trammelized that we think our pressence there should be a filter to everything bad that could happen to us? Maybe it is time to thin the herd a bit in this game.
Sak thank you for making me think about this.
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Tandek
Guest
Don't let the low post count fool you. My account is 141 months old, and I still believe it is off by a couple of months (I clearly remember playing over Thanksgiving 1997 and well before that.) I go though massive breaks of posting 5-10 messages on stratics, then not checking back for a year.
People hiding and jumping into your house to steal everything when you open the door. Stealing at the bank, having the guards kill you and having a buddy freely and "legally" lank what you stole off your corpse and handing it back to you after rezing. Mass ganking of miners and new players. Corpse jumping. The list practically goes on forever. 90% of the game revolved around Hiding, Paralyze, EB and running.
Without Tram, this game certainly, no doubt, 100% definitely would be dead and gone by now. The overwhelming majority of people don't enjoy this kind of behavior (as can be seen by the lack of such nonsense in every major MMO since and the mass exodus from Fel), which brings us back to this issue. People simply don't like the idea that others benefiting from thier work while they gain nothing, or worse, are penalized for not knowing some bizzare and unannounced mechanics to the game. Slap 50 crystals on the gypsy that needs 60, get nothing and time wasted. Player 2 who knows to hide and wait for 20 seconds before quickly adding crystals gets in the last one and gets rewarded for your work.
As a programmer, I know damn well that allowing someone to do something means it will almost certainly be done by the users. There have been multiple times that a co-worker would tell me, "Oh, that will never happen", just to see someone enter "Idontknow" into a text box requiring thier Social Security Number, or changing a person's last name to "*Smith" just so the name filters to the top of an alphabetical listing (Ya, checks cut and W2s for "John *Smith" doesn't make anyone happy, but that user doesn't care as long as they can easily get to that person's record). Just giving people the option for this kind of behavior is bad design, especially with so many better options (personal counter and random chance per crystal come to mind) that have already been proven to work in the past.
Perhaps this was a one-of. Perhaps a test to try something different? I'm cool with that, as long as the devs learn from this clear mistake and don't make it again. Or at least they should do a better job of communicating the criteria to everyone so that those "in the know" don't even have the chance to grief those "not in the know".
