Human Unraveling: broken or fraud?

[pgcd]

I finally reached 120.0 imbuing today, and I was very happy. That is, until I discovered that only gargoyles can unravel to Relic Fragments - or, if humans can do it, the requirements are a lot higher.
I have at least three examples of this:
first, a couple crafted samurai plates, that I imbued to 452 total intensity (real intensity), and both unraveled to essence;
second, a ring with 15% energy resist, that I imbued to 453 total intensity, and unraveled to essence;
finally, a ring with FC1 and DI 25%, that I imbued to _460_ total intensity (500 weighted) and unraveled to, guess what, essence.
All this using the forge in Ter Mur, which should give a bonus, and all this while gargoyle chars using the queen's forge can unravel to relic fragment with 430 total intensity, and the (repeatedly stated) minimum to unravel to relic is 450.

So, is unravelling broken and I should just be patient, or is it a fraud and I _have_ to become a gargoyle to be able to obtain relic fragments? Oh, yeah, on Europa they go for 140k a pop, when the average cost to craft one with a gargoyle is 26k.

And no, telling me to go gargoyle is not an intelligent answer.

 

[sablestorm]

I thought the Queen's Forge gave a bonus and the Ter Mur forge was regular.

 

[kitiara-atlantic]

Aye - the forge in Ter Mur's Royal City (west of the bank) is not the Queen's Soulforge.

 

[Myna]

Oh, yeah, on Europa they go for 140k a pop, when the average cost to craft one with a gargoyle is 26k.

nobody is forced to buy it

when you are able to produce it, grats ... if not, hey unravel minor arties, maybe they are cheaper than 140k

and yea getting a residue cost nothing, just unravel something from loot worth NOTHING and it sells for 1000

 

[pgcd]

Nobody is forced to buy fragments when you can produce them, agreed. But with a human you can't. And minor arties you can use to get fragment don't sell for less than a fragment, on europa. And i know very well how you can obtain residue, having just reached 120 imbuing, whaddaya think?

And the Ter Mur public forge has a bonus to Imbuing, as you can very easily verify if you have a home soulforge.

And the fact remains that a human artificer cannot unravel to fragment when it should be possible, so my question stands: is it a bug, or is there an actual malus for human artificers when it comes to unraveling?

 

[Bobar]

I dont know if the Queens forge bonus would make a difference for you in making a relic BUT you dont have to be a Gargoyle to use it - just need have sufficient loyalty which all can get. I do know it has a higher bonus than the Ter Mer one

 

[riohnyx]

It is possible for a non-gargoyle to create fragments. There are some tips in the crafting forum as to how to do it.

Though... i have to wonder if there is something odd about unraveling as well. While I've been able to produce relic frags pretty easily through a combo of crafting and imbuing, I haven't quite figured out what intensity something has to be before it is a relic. I'm also confused about split weapon damage and it's effect on intensity since it seems to count as a property, but doesn't seem to add anything to intensity... unless I'm just figuring the numbers wrong...

 

[Storm]

humans can it just takes more weight and the queens forge is what you want especialy if you are human !
Gargoyles have this ability to more easily unravel and imbue beacause they suck at most other things !
and they have been at it alot longer than humans or elves!

if you want a maxed out imbuer unraveler you will make it a gargoyle !
I know it seems like it sucks ! but gargoyles need something to make them worth playing!

 

[Beastmaster]

Storm is correct. After one of Storm's earlier posts on the topic I did extensive research into it. The Royal City forge gives all artificers a bonus to both imbuing and unraveling, the Queen's forge gives an even higher bonus. Being gargoyle gives a bonus beyond those. All numbers with respect to unraveling are for UNWEIGHTED scores. For gargoyles they can unravel an item at the Queen's forge with an unweighted score of 425 or more. For elves/humans it must be 451 or more at the Queen's forge. I don't think a elf/human could produce an item with a high enough unweighted score to unravel to a relic fragment from a home forge.

 

[pgcd]

I don't think I explained myself: I know that I could turn into a gargoyle and/or use the Queen's forge to craft relic fragments!

The *problem* is that 452, 453 and 460 UNWEIGHTED intensities do not give relics if you are human, while they should. The minimum should be 450 (or 451 according to someone), but it actually is not - if you are human. That's what I'm talking about, and what I'd like to have an answer to.

 

[Kirthag]

Are you using the Queen's forge, city forge, or your own forge?

I don't think I explained myself: I know that I could turn into a gargoyle and/or use the Queen's forge to craft relic fragments!

The *problem* is that 452, 453 and 460 UNWEIGHTED intensities do not give relics if you are human, while they should. The minimum should be 450 (or 451 according to someone), but it actually is not - if you are human. That's what I'm talking about, and what I'd like to have an answer to.

 

[Obsidian]

Where is the Queen's forge?

I know where the soul forge is just west of the Tur Mur bank. I thought I was in the central castle in Ter Mur, but I didn't find a special soul forge there... at least I missed it.

-OBSIDIAN-

 

[Warsong of LS]

inside the palace and you need to be a noble (10000) loyalty points to use it

 

[Obsidian]

inside the palace and you need to be a noble (10000) loyalty points to use it

Ok, I am missing it. Which floor?

 

[Beastmaster]

All numbers with respect to unraveling are for UNWEIGHTED scores. For gargoyles they can unravel an item at the Queen's forge with an unweighted score of 425 or more. For elves/humans it must be 451 or more at the Queen's forge.

I don't think I explained myself: I know that I could turn into a gargoyle and/or use the Queen's forge to craft relic fragments!

The *problem* is that 452, 453 and 460 UNWEIGHTED intensities do not give relics if you are human, while they should. The minimum should be 450 (or 451 according to someone), but it actually is not - if you are human. That's what I'm talking about, and what I'd like to have an answer to.

What part of that did not answer your question? I can prove exactly what I stated. Which exactly refutes your claim.

 

[Ender]

Try using non-imbued items.

 

[Tabby Kapak]

What storm said is right, that's just how it is designed. It is good every race has his/her own (dis)advantages. Makes chosing worthwhile. A logical rule, they have done it generations long, they should have an advantage.

 

[Ender]

Also, if gargoyles didn't have this they would be COMPLETELY useless.

 

[Stupid Miner]

I finally reached 120.0 imbuing today, and I was very happy. That is, until I discovered that only gargoyles can unravel to Relic Fragments - or, if humans can do it, the requirements are a lot higher.
I have at least three examples of this:
first, a couple crafted samurai plates, that I imbued to 452 total intensity (real intensity), and both unraveled to essence;
second, a ring with 15% energy resist, that I imbued to 453 total intensity, and unraveled to essence;
finally, a ring with FC1 and DI 25%, that I imbued to _460_ total intensity (500 weighted) and unraveled to, guess what, essence.
All this using the forge in Ter Mur, which should give a bonus, and all this while gargoyle chars using the queen's forge can unravel to relic fragment with 430 total intensity, and the (repeatedly stated) minimum to unravel to relic is 450.

So, is unravelling broken and I should just be patient, or is it a fraud and I _have_ to become a gargoyle to be able to obtain relic fragments? Oh, yeah, on Europa they go for 140k a pop, when the average cost to craft one with a gargoyle is 26k.

And no, telling me to go gargoyle is not an intelligent answer.

Any Exceptional Crafting bonus doesnt count toward the Unravelling intensity. (I recall hearing this includes mage armor on Samurai Plate)

 

[Fink]

I don't know what to tell you other that it's always worked for me. Human legendary artificer. I can make rings for just over 19K, 452 total intensity, and I've always had them unravel to relic fragments. I use the queen's soulforge to unravel because that's where I make them.

 

[Pawain]

My imbuing is only 52. I found 2 loot items that were too difficult to unravel.

I gave them to a human imbuer and he told me he got 3 relic fragments. This was at his home.

 

[pgcd]

What part of that did not answer your question? I can prove exactly what I stated. Which exactly refutes your claim.

Yes, thank you - you actually answered me and I didn't notice. But it would have been easier for me to notice it if you had just replied with "fraud", since that's what it is:
A human crafter, wanting to stay human and not wanting to powerplay the way to 10k loyalty (repeating quests hundreds of times etc), cannot craft relic ever, under any circumstances.

Oh, yeah, maybe you can use rare ingredients to make a 500intensity item or something like that, but I strongly invite anyone who want to be a human/elf imbuer to read the above and think again.

 

[Dol'Gorath]

I thought the Queen's Forge gave a bonus and the Ter Mur forge was regular.

Home forges are regular. Termur forge gives a bonus, Queen's forge gives a bigger bonus.

 

[BartofCats]

The Queens forge is in the basement of such of her castle north of the public soulforge in Ter mur.

Even I cannot verify if the humans suck in getting the relic fragments. I had a slot available and made a gargoyle for my imbuing character.

 

[Ender]

A human crafter, wanting to stay human and not wanting to powerplay the way to 10k loyalty (repeating quests hundreds of times etc), cannot craft relic ever, under any circumstances.

Hmm. So those relic fragments I got from unraveling loot from Dread Horn must have been fake.

 

[Fink]

Yes, thank you - you actually answered me and I didn't notice. But it would have been easier for me to notice it if you had just replied with "fraud", since that's what it is:
A human crafter, wanting to stay human and not wanting to powerplay the way to 10k loyalty (repeating quests hundreds of times etc), cannot craft relic ever, under any circumstances.

Instead of quests you can go the toxic slith route.

If the idea of powergaming bothers you, think of it as harvesting. Toxic sliths drop slith tongues for the hit dispel property, and toxic venom sacs for making scouring toxin, which is used to soften reeds for basketweaving or removing dyes from dyed items. There's nothing wrong with 'farming' your own materials.

If that still seems like powergaming, consider GM Blacksmith used to take forever & you've just made Legendary Imbuing in a month.

 

[Old Man of UO]

Yes, thank you - you actually answered me and I didn't notice. But it would have been easier for me to notice it if you had just replied with "fraud", since that's what it is: ...

I disagree with you, there is no "fraud." What I do see is an inability to understand and cope with the situation, and perhaps a little ignorance you your part. EA/Mythic never misrepresented this in any way, and it was stated that you get an imbuing (and therefore unraveling bonus) from both the Queen's forge and from the innate traits of the Gargoyle race. My elf imbuer does get the relics, even at my current skill level of 110.

 

[Connor_Graham]

A human crafter, wanting to stay human and not wanting to powerplay the way to 10k loyalty (repeating quests hundreds of times etc), cannot craft relic ever, under any circumstances.

Garg crafters have to work their loyalty up as well. They don't come with an automatic 15k loyalty, but start with 2k, even though they're Gargs.

 

[miss uo]

Did you try imbueing and enhancing bows? This method seems to work without using the queens forge. Go read the how to in the craftsmen forum.

 

[pgcd]

I disagree with you, there is no "fraud." What I do see is an inability to understand and cope with the situation, and perhaps a little ignorance you your part. EA/Mythic never misrepresented this in any way, and it was stated that you get an imbuing (and therefore unraveling bonus) from both the Queen's forge and from the innate traits of the Gargoyle race. My elf imbuer does get the relics, even at my current skill level of 110.

I'm sorry if I was not clear - my gripe is with the fact that I am pretty certain that 450 intensity was confirmed by the devs as being the min intensity required to unravel to fragments, while it must be quite a lot higher. So yeah, there's a lot of ignorance on my part - I was ignorant of the fact that "human artificer" is an oxymoron. No biggies, eh - I already turned gargoyle with my imbuer, and will happily powergame (well, "harvest" =)) toxic sliths to increase loyalty.

In the hope of closing this small can of not very annoying worms: the fraud is "gargoyles have bonuses to unraveling", in the same sense as saying "elves have bonuses to riding cu sidhes" would be a fraud.

 

[riohnyx]

Human Artificer here. I got 10,000k loyalty with Alchemy frying toxic sliths with conflagrations and explosion potions. Dangerous work for my poor helpless little crafter, but imbuing a resist suit and gobbling orange petals like no tomorrow definitely helped. It is definitely worth the extra work because my human can make cheap relics without using the high end ingredients and using the cheapest three gems.

You can make relics without the Queen's forge as a human, but it will cost you more, so it's one of those situations where you will have to choose which you perfer.

 

[Sarsmi]

I moved my imbuing over to a new character and then got some mysticism and magery and other mage related skills (med, focus, eval). Then I spent a week training them up to decent levels, built a nice suit for them and tried my hand at being a mage for a bit. It's been a long time. I was casting the colussus thing at farmer nashes field then invising, then pulling weeds to great success.

The loyalty was a bit slow doing that so I decided to try toxic sliths. They are great fun! However the kepetch ambushers are a pita, and they give horrible loot to boot. So when I would get an ambusher on me I was dragging it westerly, around where the stone sliths were (and if a coral snake decided to come along too, so much the better). Then I would invis and recall back to my desert recall spot. That really helped with the 'o****!' moments those guys like to give.

It was actually pretty fun, though it was a long slog to 10k loyalty. I normally play a lazy bones tamer so actually having to evade mobs is novel to me. FYI good old arch cure works better than the pink flamey mysticism thing for curing that high level poison. Tho my myst is still in the 80's so maybe it gets stronger at higher levels.

 

[Sarsmi]

Oh something else I did to get my imbuer loyalty was go down to the abyss (the key quest wasn't too bad, having both focus and med really helped for wearing tyballs shadow down) and then I would get a big hoard of goblins after me and cast hail storm in the middle of them. That was quite fun, though they are not worth many loyalty points it was good times.

BTW didnt get any loyalty from doing vamp bats/gore fiends in the champ spawn, which is poop imo. Likewise it seemed like none of the underworld monsters gave loyalty either. Poop!