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Wakiza
Guest
Not exactly Ken. Felluca, is the last remaining place where the non-consensual pvper can have his fill. Even games like WoW allow for consensual pvp (duels) anywhere.This would be a win win for all don't you think?
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But of course that capacity is already in the game AKA The Moongates to Felluca/Recall to a Felluca marked point.A PvP switch might be a good idea. As long as you can't turn it off quickly to save yourself
sure,it would be nonsens if you could turn off in the middle of the battle
absolutly on your side, if someone switch to pvp yes, he has to stay awhile in this mode,
NO easy turn off escape.
The rules are there and they work. Why does one need more space than one already has that is 99% unused?
And yet not one of them will answer why the existing PvP areas that REQUIRE a PvP switch, a CONSCIOUS CHOICE of the players to make, remains EMPTY, while they demand access to Trammel and the alteration of the Trammel Rules Indirectly.
if this would be true what you say, then WHY the dev´s had to give fel
double resources
champ scrolls
harrower stat scrolls
why?
if the game was made for pvp, then why 95% of the player dont like the so called
uo pvp?
why isn´t fel the place no.1 for the majority?
give this game a true paperdoll pvp on / off switch, then all those luring victims debates whould have an end.
as long as uo pvp is only build on ambushing victims, 95% of all players will stay away
that´s not my opinion, that´s fact
Sometimes I think your as dense as a piece of obsidian, Uo was not about PvP or PvM back then it was about being in a world full of danger it was about being who you wanted to be. Today its all about PvM and pixel crack UO has lost sight of what its roots were. Its lost its sense of adventure and danger.
Now I'm not saying tram was a bad thing and I never thought of it that way our Senior's and timid need a place like that to play, What I have always been against is the fact #1 They lied to us telling us tram would not be a mirror of the old lands, #2 they added it to all shards instead of the common sense way of making its own server.
A lot claim people were leaving in droves due to the rule set, that is utter BS. EQ came out and offered the first 3d 1st person MMO people ate that up that was cutting edge tech back then. The spike in accounts during the launch of UO:R was mostly due to the fact that Housing was at a premium there was not a spot to place a house and to buy one was just as hard finding one. Most the players first got their 2nd account just to be able to place a 2nd house in the new lands.
People here think that we as UO players (people who love the fel play style) are the minority but that is not true, all the people that play Fel rulesets far out number the players that dont, Point being is looking at the populations of the fel only freeservers they are all a lot more filled than their tram counter parts EA for that matter. And these people have their choice on what ruleset they want to play being its free whereas on EA you either have what we have now or Siege and Siege is hardly a good example being its not a normal production shard.
As for the matter of bringing back Chaos Order, Thats a big yes on my side.
Ok they made a Mirror of the Old lands and filling the dungeons up with Champ spawns when they should have just been in t2a. Why go to despise fel when you can farm your little heart out in despise tram? Doesn't matter if the player is a PvPer or not they will always take the easy way its Human nature.
True, some pvpers will not wish to join Order/Chaos being their happy with what they have, Its evident based on all the PvPers who are not in factions.
Mistakes which nearly killed the game? I'm not suggesting FORCING people to join. This is strictly voluntary. Chaos/Order were the most populated times in Ultima. I could count 20-30 people at all times all in small guilds running in either side.
The game actually died out when Chaos/Order was removed. Truth.
True pvpers don't need rewards or incentives to pvp. Imo, it's people like yourself who only want to participate if there's free stuff given out that have ruined the game.
As for a pvp "switch". No. Order/Chaos was a part of this games history. One that old players would like restored. There's no reason for anyone to join if they don't want to and no reason for any sort of switch. If you don't like the idea...it's as simple as don't participate. The code is already written and a lot of players want it put back into effect.
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Yalp
Guest
I'm in a good mood tonight so I'm not gonna take that bait..
A couple more questions on how the system would work. If you'd like to discuss the merits that is.
How do you address the issue of Red's? Do they remain in the current system of justice and be restricted to fel only? Or does the system get changed to allow reds access to all shards? If this is the case what do you propose is the consequence for being a murderer? Or what if you attack a blue in chaos/order and get reported for murder and you hit your red/blue limit? Do you get immediately transported to fel facet?
You failed to address my post on your proposal actually DECREASING the choices by reducing the amount of "faction type" guilds you can join.. Chaos/Order, TB's, SL, COM, and Min.
What do you propose with the even EMPTIER Felucca now that pvprs are all over the game looking for other chaos/order players? How will this affect smaller shards? What is the long term outlook for the game?
If you open up pvp to all facets, what do you propose for the double resource/champ spawn "rewards" for risking yourself to go to fel? Eliminate them? Or write the code to make all facets the same?
How will this change of order/chaos affect guilds that are warring?
Is there any exploit anywhere any time that would ensnare non-consenting players in your pvp battle while running through city streets?
How will you prevent EM events from turning into pvp fiasco's when held on facets other than Fel?
these are just some other questions on how the system would work.
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Yalp
Guest
hee... I always think statements like this are freaking hilarious.
true pvp'rs don't.... (we need a thread for this)
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Wakiza
Guest
If you knew the games mechanics, you would know there are zero murder counts involved in chaos/order fighting. Opposing players are flagged "orange" which means they are free to be attacked. Don't worry reds would still be in felluca.
You risk nothing in trammel, unless you would choose to. There is only risk of non-consensual pvp in Felluca. Period. There is no need to change any "risk vs rewards".
I wish.
Nothiing i guess but whats the difference they are already spam festivals.
I take it you never got the pleasure to see Chaos/Order when it was around so i'll explain.
-Reds as always will remain in Fel.
-They will still give justice.
-Chaos/Order enemies are orange just like factions so no counts will be given for attacking an orange.
-Chaos/Order is a totally seperate system than factions. I started playing early 99 and played c/o until they pulled the plug on it. It was the best times of my life.
Don't think of it as opening all facets to pvp. It's not like that. You have to go to the castle and join and when you quit its either instant or done within an hour. There's no penalty for dying.
As far as double resources ect, it will remain the same. It's not like a C/O can march through Tram or Malas and slaughter anyone. It's like guild wars except you don't need a guild. Chaos is orange to Order and vice versa. You have to find the stone and after getting the gump, join if you want. If i remember right you can do Chaos and war other guilds at the same time. It's not like risk vs reward system. Chaos-Order cannot kill anyone who hasn't consented to joining. A Chaos cannot attack another Chaos in Tram ruleset either same goes for Order vs Order. It's a pure consent system that will not effect anyone that didn't journey to the castle to join.
As far as EM events, simply quit before it starts. The old system didn't have fancy gear and i wouldn't want it to so you really wouldn't be out of anything.
With this people who haven't experienced PvP could stand in safety at Luna Bank and watch an Order battle a Chaos. I'm sure RP guilds would like this. Solo players who can't handle the mass numbers of factions would also like this. Faction guilds that aren't guarding sigs will have something else to do if they choose as well.
To give an example, say i'm Order. I can fight ANY Chaos i see in Tram/Malas/Illish/Tok/Ter Mur/Fel. If i go to fel i CAN be attacked by non Chaos members just like anyone else though so it's still risk vs reward there.
Overlooked this part. Sorry.
Don't think of it as decreasing or reducing. It's not factions. It's a totally seperate system. There would still be TB/Com/SL/Min. Just with Chaos/Order there's no fancy gear or sigs to guard, just an alternate choice of pvp.
I don't think Fel will be that much emptier. It'll be just like anything else. You'll have a group of dedicated Chaos/Order players just like RP/crafters, factioners and plant growers.
This really isn't an idea, it's just a rez of an old game feature that a lot of us loved back then. It doesn't hurt anyone that didn't chose to join. It's nothing to fear in tram ruleset areas but very amusing to watch.
A large number of posts were removed.
Please try to keep this within RoC if you wish to avoid a permanent lock.
Please try to keep this within RoC if you wish to avoid a permanent lock.
Well, I do not yell ...
I have a Teflon spot for the correct spelling and that comes from .... a long time ago on another board.
Besides it is rather hard to not think the correct spelling and boats, become distracted and forget what I was going to say.
And yes, i totally missed your post and its suggestion. and I found another one for me that I missed as well
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Sweeney
Guest
Some people just like criticizing things that don't affect them at all. ^^^
I agree with you 100% on this, Yalp. I'd much rather fight against someone that it seems safe to assume is ready for an honorable fight, rather than someone that you might have caught at an inopportune time.
Exact same questions I've had every time I see this suggestion. The poor red characters will become very dusty, rusty, and lonely....
Hum .... you make assertions of facts that are ... well not factual.
A group, NON O/C Guild, what ever is having an community event, perhaps a Dungeon Crawl, perhaps a Targeted Mob progression.
One or more members are part of O or C. And everyone understands that this is an Event.
Along comes you, and knowing you the way we do, you start attacking everyone you can and laughing as you destroy the event. We know that is how you enjoy things. Nothing personal, it is just a ubiquitous you and not really you.
The Shard EM creates an Event and all the O / C people know that the event is a suspension of the O / C.
Along comes you, and knowing you the way we do, you start attacking everyone you can and laughing as you destroy the event. We know that is how you enjoy things. Nothing personal, it is just a ubiquitous you and not really you.
So your fact that people that did not join are not affected is ... well not factual.
And considering that Felluca is empty, why should there be any thing spent on a system that will empty it even more and stand zero chance of growing it?
As I said in another ... post, the Felucca, PvP systems, Codeing etc are not the problem. We the players are lock stock and barrel, the problem. The majority of us can certainly play the game in a manner that everyone has fun ..... but there is that very small few that are hell bent on destroying / ruining everything they can, no matter what.
So you can not vouch safe anything. Your just opening up yet another means to RUIN other peoples good times and believing some how that your sense of entertainment is what their sense of entertainment had darn well be.
I don't see why people who don't like PvP see O/C as a bad idea, it doesn't affect those who do not wish to PvP at all!
A bank sitter wont have to change anything they are doing. They will see a couple PvPing and suffer no collateral damage whatsoever.
If someone does not wish to PvP, all they have to do is NOT join a warring guild or an O/C guild.
Order/Chaos = a big guild war without having to war individual guilds who may not even war back.
A bank sitter wont have to change anything they are doing. They will see a couple PvPing and suffer no collateral damage whatsoever.
If someone does not wish to PvP, all they have to do is NOT join a warring guild or an O/C guild.
Order/Chaos = a big guild war without having to war individual guilds who may not even war back.
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Sweeney
Guest
So many ideas get shot down by people not affected in the slightest. We on Siege are almost used to it, sadly.
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Sweeney
Guest
Actually I do, and your sentence structure and spelling leave much to be desired. Previous posters have made my arguments for it.. but the arguments against it are lacking. In essence, it won't affect you if you choose not to participate.He he, what your going to repeat yourself 100 times until your replied to? Lets save some disk space then.
Hum, you say your a Siege person ... and you speak of others having an opinion on things you say does not affect them. Interesting don't you think?
You have two easy off the top of the head almost no brainer ways it affects everyone and you, for your own reason, chose to go into denial and repeat your mantra about how no one is affected. Another Siege person that post here has been known to make a rather sage piece of advice. Perhaps you should find out what it is.
"He he" you delete your post after noticing I've only had two replies at the time? Smart move, too bad I am paying attention.
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Brucie Kibbutz
Guest
Almost everyone has completely derailed this thread, it was a simple request: REACTIVATE ORDER/CHAOS.
If you don't want to catch people off guard, if you want to be bothered while bank sitting, if you don't want to worry about being attacked in trammel, DO NOT JOIN!!!!!!!!!! It's that freaking simple, or do I need more exclamation marks?
I personally miss seeing people fight for the simple reason of wanting to fight. Not fighting for personal gain (champ spawns) or hugging the guard zone/house hiding (gate fights). I want to fight people who just enjoy to fight, and to watch people fight, just for the sake of fighting.
tldr: If you don't like the idea, then don't JOIN!!
If you don't want to catch people off guard, if you want to be bothered while bank sitting, if you don't want to worry about being attacked in trammel, DO NOT JOIN!!!!!!!!!! It's that freaking simple, or do I need more exclamation marks?
I personally miss seeing people fight for the simple reason of wanting to fight. Not fighting for personal gain (champ spawns) or hugging the guard zone/house hiding (gate fights). I want to fight people who just enjoy to fight, and to watch people fight, just for the sake of fighting.
tldr: If you don't like the idea, then don't JOIN!!
Not really, I think Petra more or less frowned on ... lets be kind your kind of off topic posts.
Or in short, I chose to NOT contribute to her problems.
You on the other hand need to make your own choices.
But don't let me rain on your delusions of grandeur
And that's fine you continue your mantra that screams how your in denial.
At least Brucie had the common sense to NOT claim it had no impact on people that were not in it. I assume he concedes that it does have the potential to directly impact others in a profoundly negative way.
So you have had your 10 minutes of fame ....
C'est la vie
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Sweeney
Guest
I doubt she deleted threads within 2 mins of being posted.. but even if she did, you skirted the issue and your evidence. You seem to be a master of thread derailing and turning opinions into accusations.Not really, I think Petra more or less frowned on ... lets be kind your kind of off topic posts.
Or in short, I chose to NOT contribute to her problems.
You on the other hand need to make your own choices.
But don't let me rain on your delusions of grandeur
And that's fine you continue your mantra that screams how your in denial.
At least Brucie had the common sense to NOT claim it had no impact on people that were not in it. I assume he concedes that it does have the potential to directly impact others in a profoundly negative way.
So you have had your 10 minutes of fame ....
C'est la vie
Only you know what this insinuates.Two posts does not make a mantra, show how I am in denial of anything. And I could care less who Brucie is.. your pet names mean nothing to me.
Instead of arguing, try debate.. it works out much better. Prove your point, give evidence.. attacking just makes you look weak.
*takes off mod hat*
As an idea, I don't think it would work. Why not? For the same reason you can't find a fight in Fel outside of champ spawns and Yew gate. There's the whole of the rest of the facet to fight people in, they're just not there. Why would you think they'd be there in Tram if order/chaos were restored?
Order/chaos only appeals to those who want constant danger. Those players already play in Fel.
As for it not affecting anyone else. Not necessarily true, unless you're going to bar order/chaos characters from attending any event, be it EA or player organised.
Stop and think for a moment. Who are the players who would join this idea? Where are they playing now?
As an idea, I don't think it would work. Why not? For the same reason you can't find a fight in Fel outside of champ spawns and Yew gate. There's the whole of the rest of the facet to fight people in, they're just not there. Why would you think they'd be there in Tram if order/chaos were restored?
Order/chaos only appeals to those who want constant danger. Those players already play in Fel.
As for it not affecting anyone else. Not necessarily true, unless you're going to bar order/chaos characters from attending any event, be it EA or player organised.
Stop and think for a moment. Who are the players who would join this idea? Where are they playing now?
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Vaen Swiftar
Guest
Order Chaos coming back would be pretty kickass. An alignment where you could find orange guilds in both Fel and Tram, where Factions are only Fel. PvP in Tram would be fun via O/C.
If there was any kind of guarantee that Order/Chaos would NOT replace factions, I might not oppose it so much. However, based on some statements made by developers and actual events we've had, it seems there is a good possibility that factions may morph into Order/Chaos so that the only organized PvP system that remains is Order/Chaos across all facets.
I don't want to lose the Fel-based faction system that at least has things to fight over, however weak they may be. From everything I've seen so far about Order/Chaos, it sounds like it has very little within it as a reason to fight other than just to be fighting and is as easy to get into or leave as changing your clothing. I'm sorry, but that kind of a system just doesn't appeal to me at all as a replacement to factions or as something that has the potential to mess up EM or player-run events in any shard.
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Sweeney
Guest
Now that is a good argument. Too bad previous posters tend to attack others instead of defend their point of view.
I agree with bringing Order & Chaos back, I use to have an order guild on Pacific. It was a lot of fun..
I think we should keep the faction system though, allow Order & Chaos guilds to join a faction as well.. I believe they could before they scrapped Order & Chaos.
It would also bring back a lot of guild warring.. When you go Order & Chaos your basically screaming "WAR MY GUILD!" which would be neat. It would also eliminate a lot of the zerg guilds.
I think we should keep the faction system though, allow Order & Chaos guilds to join a faction as well.. I believe they could before they scrapped Order & Chaos.
It would also bring back a lot of guild warring.. When you go Order & Chaos your basically screaming "WAR MY GUILD!" which would be neat. It would also eliminate a lot of the zerg guilds.
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Mairut
Guest
*nods* ^^^Best describes how I'm feeling about this^^^.....If people want a little more excitement in their life and some new battlegrounds (tokuno, malas, the underworld, etc.) who am I to stop them as long as it doesn't affect me? Heck, watching some duels would actually be added entertainment!
Who are the players who would join? I would say it's safe to assume that a vast majority of the current PvP'rs would give it a shot.
Where are they playing now? If it weren't for AoS, and all the other horrid changes to the game that drove the pvp'rs away in masses, they would still be here. But currently, many are all on free shards, pvp'ing their fingers off because honestly, the PvP they provide for FREE offers alot more than current EA UO PvP.
Luckily, we are slowly getting back to a state where UO is fun for the casual player and pvp'r, and our current Dev team seems to be doing things right for a change. However, they aren't doing much when it comes to PvP, and Order/Chaos would be just one more reason for an ex-pvp'r to return.
Also, how exactly does order/chaos affect non-order/chaos at an event, EM or player run?
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CatLord
Guest
I am sorry if anyone replied to this... I didnt read all of the thread.
Chaos/Order was removed because chaos won... when BlackThorn died.
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siyeng0
Guest
Im all for bringing chaos/order back. Comparing it with factions is like comparing apples and oranges. Many people, myself included do not play factions because of the speedhacking. Who wants to get put in stat by some punk zipping on and off screen literaly running circles around other players. Chaos/Order has no stat loss. As much as I liked Chaos/Order the first thing EA should do is start either banning or fixing speedhackers. I wont get my hopes up on that one though as we all know how that has gone for years now. They can try to help pvp all they want but the fact is its still an all out cheat fest. Its sad too because its really the only aspect of this game that can still be fun to me.
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ElRay
Guest
And?? Would that affect your character AT ALL/bother you?? No. It wouldnt affect ANY of your characters that you dont put in Order/Chaos.
Here let me finish this sentence. It SHOULD read "Order/chaos only appeals to those who want constant danger AND THAT ACTUALLY JOIN"
Order/Chaos is voluntary.....you do realize this right? If you dont want that constant danger.........DONT JOIN
Petra, come on....if people come to events on Order/Chaos characters, then im sure they are prepared to be attacked. If they didnt want to be attacked at an event, im sure they would use one of there OTHER 6 SLOTS that were non Order/Chaos.
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ElRay
Guest
Tell me, why would it replace factions? Factions and Order/Chaos were together for quite awhile together with excellent participation in both simultaneously, why would that have to change when they implemented Order/Chaos?? Rhetorical question. It wouldnt.
Interesting concept. That would still not be the same as it would have stat loss, but its a decent idea IMO.
I am with you here, I would like to see both co-exist once again as they used to.
Again, if you come to an event on an Order/Chaos character, be prepared to be attacked........otherwise bring another of your 6 slot characters that is NON CHAOS/ORDER.
With regard to Chaos/Order members messing up player-run and EM-run events, El Ray, I believe the point both Petra and I were trying to make is that it would probably be difficult for many people to resist the opportunity to take pot shots at each other during such events.
Anyone else at the event who isn't an Order or Chaos member would have to participate in the event while the Order/Chaos members carry out their fight. Trying to put people on ignore while they're running around, invizzing themselves, or turning into ghosts AND while trying to listen to the people running the event talk or perform actions might take more concentration and patience than most people possess. If the event is taking place inside of a house, you also have the potential for house teleporters to become disabled if a character dies on top of them.
I'm sure I could come up with more reasons to illustrate my point. Hopefully this helps clarify where I was coming from with my statement.
Anyone else at the event who isn't an Order or Chaos member would have to participate in the event while the Order/Chaos members carry out their fight. Trying to put people on ignore while they're running around, invizzing themselves, or turning into ghosts AND while trying to listen to the people running the event talk or perform actions might take more concentration and patience than most people possess. If the event is taking place inside of a house, you also have the potential for house teleporters to become disabled if a character dies on top of them.
I'm sure I could come up with more reasons to illustrate my point. Hopefully this helps clarify where I was coming from with my statement.
Tina i understand your concerns but i will go ahead and say Warring guilds could do the same thing now but yet we haven't heard about any disruptions.
Basically imo if someone can fight the many monsters an event can provide then a few players fighting each other shouldn't be a distraction at all.
As for the EMs, they can have gms come remove disruptive parties from their event if need be. EMs can also ban people from their event houses as well.
If your concerns are that great about events then maybe that awesome Sakkarah can provide dedicated event areas where no pvp combat is allowed. I'm willing to work with concerned people that have an open mind. C/O worked well in the past and i see no reason it wouldn't work again now.
Basically imo if someone can fight the many monsters an event can provide then a few players fighting each other shouldn't be a distraction at all.
As for the EMs, they can have gms come remove disruptive parties from their event if need be. EMs can also ban people from their event houses as well.
If your concerns are that great about events then maybe that awesome Sakkarah can provide dedicated event areas where no pvp combat is allowed. I'm willing to work with concerned people that have an open mind. C/O worked well in the past and i see no reason it wouldn't work again now.
No, it wouldn't directly affect my characters, I didn't say it would. I said the idea won't work. The only people who would join chaos and order are the exact same people who currently pvp. I actually don't always look at things in terms of 'how will it affect me', believe it or not, I try to look at things logically.
You are totally missing the point in regard to disruption of events. Again because you're looking at it from the 'me' point of view. It's not how it affects the people in chaos and order, it's how it affects everyone else there, trying to attend, listen to and follow the storyline of an event with people fighting all around.
It's probably a failing, but I was taught to think of other people besides myself and be considerate of their feelings and rights.
You are totally missing the point in regard to disruption of events. Again because you're looking at it from the 'me' point of view. It's not how it affects the people in chaos and order, it's how it affects everyone else there, trying to attend, listen to and follow the storyline of an event with people fighting all around.
It's probably a failing, but I was taught to think of other people besides myself and be considerate of their feelings and rights.
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Coffin
Guest
/thread
Your initial premise was that your proposal was the equivalent of the perfect Victimless Crime. Well now it is established that there are people being affected, in a negative way by your proposal.
Since when did Order or Chaos get a Guild Leader or in any sense become accountable for the actions of its members? Well now that is a GREAT IDEA. Lets modify Order and Chaos to allow any member to take the Guild (your construct/word) OUT OF WARING MODE.
You know, like waring guilds have. I suspect you will not recognize let alone admit, that the members of Order and Chaos are 100% uncontrolled, their actions have no accountability. Even if they are hideous to their own side, they are immune, could care less as in absolutely no accountability for their actions and the consequences of their actions.
Now that is particularly ironic don't you think?
Trammel should have been NO PvP, yet it has limited and structured PvP. You come along and propose to ALTER the Trammel Rule Set. Yet, the obvious irony, you ... lets be kind, suggest an area can be set aside for no PvP.
I do hope your laughing your read end off over that one. You want to enject PvP into a stable system that excludes your proposal, then seek to further modify the Trammel Rule Set and say they can set aside some spot that has no PvP allowed.
You have never made any case what so ever why you feel it be required to alter the Trammel Rule Set to meet your whim and so profoundly, categorically, irrevocably, irreversibly, never ever reject any form of thought or suggestion that you can have everything you want in Felucca. Does that strike you as being ... open minded, serious, etc.
I know, I know, lets remove the Felucca Rule Set and createa PvP ALLOWED area. I even know were
Draw a straight line from South of the Trinsic Moongate to Oh 10 Screens South of Destard anything south of that line to the waters edge is set aside for PvP, on both facets or if we close down the Felucca Facet to reduce operating costs, seeing as to how it is empty, then just the One facet.
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Yalp
Guest
The points I made previously, were the benefit/cost isn't balanced with this suggestion.
Benefits:
Eliminate stat loss
PvP anywhere in the game
Costs:
Reds
Events
Exploits
Cheating/Scripting
Double Resources
Spreading pvp'rs out even more
Benefits:
Eliminate stat loss
PvP anywhere in the game
Costs:
Reds
Events
Exploits
Cheating/Scripting
Double Resources
Spreading pvp'rs out even more
Benefits:
-Eliminate stat loss
-PvP anywhere in the game
-Added: could draw old players to return now that imbuing can offer them top of the line equippment
-Added: draw existing player to try it out (buy new accounts to make other pvp temps if they like it)
-Added: Will need crafters to imbue top of the line gear with double the pvp.
Costs:
-Reds (will stay in Fel forever, this is more of a blue vs blue system but reds can play O/C in Fel)
-Events (i offered a solution but am open for ideas)
-Exploits (that's up to the Dev team but i certainly hope not)
-Cheating/Scripting (unfortunately that happens on every facet as it is...look at heartwood)
-Double Resources (stays in fel since fel is still risk vs reward)
-Spreading pvp'rs out even more (there's time between sig guarding to spare, will initiate more RP i feel as people will pick a territory to defend--my area is Minoc, will free up some spawn time so new people can venture into fel to spawn)
You're somewhat annoying in your ignorance of a system that worked perfectly in Tram ruleset before.Your initial premise was that your proposal was the equivalent of the perfect Victimless Crime. Well now it is established that there are people being affected, in a negative way by your proposal.
Since when did Order or Chaos get a Guild Leader or in any sense become accountable for the actions of its members? Well now that is a GREAT IDEA. Lets modify Order and Chaos to allow any member to take the Guild (your construct/word) OUT OF WARING MODE.
You know, like waring guilds have. I suspect you will not recognize let alone admit, that the members of Order and Chaos are 100% uncontrolled, their actions have no accountability. Even if they are hideous to their own side, they are immune, could care less as in absolutely no accountability for their actions and the consequences of their actions.
Now that is particularly ironic don't you think?
Trammel should have been NO PvP, yet it has limited and structured PvP. You come along and propose to ALTER the Trammel Rule Set. Yet, the obvious irony, you ... lets be kind, suggest an area can be set aside for no PvP.
I do hope your laughing your read end off over that one. You want to enject PvP into a stable system that excludes your proposal, then seek to further modify the Trammel Rule Set and say they can set aside some spot that has no PvP allowed.
You have never made any case what so ever why you feel it be required to alter the Trammel Rule Set to meet your whim and so profoundly, categorically, irrevocably, irreversibly, never ever reject any form of thought or suggestion that you can have everything you want in Felucca. Does that strike you as being ... open minded, serious, etc.
No it's not "altering Tram ruleset" or INjecting PvP into Tram, it's bringing back an old voluntary system of war in which people that want to participate have to join.
I'm not sure what you even mean by that. Did you even play during the C/O era?
As for me being open minded, yes i am. I offered an idea to everyones Event concern. If you have something better do everyone a favor and contribute instead of trolling me.
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Yalp
Guest
I do see your points There Lythos but my point is it that most of these already exist in the game.
If memory serves.. Siege has everything you express will be the benefits of adding C/O game wide pvp... If we can compare the player numbers of Siege v. all the other production shards, is Siege the hands down favorite of people who play this game? Or is it a niche market? Would adding C/O be forcing the majority to adopt the niche market play style? And would that be the best business decision for EA's product?
Benefits:
-Eliminate stat loss
-PvP anywhere in the game
Costs:
-Reds
-Events (I and others made it clear that Community and / or EM Events will be destroyed)
-Exploits (new ways to hack, cheat and exploit are added to the existing list)
-Cheating/Scripting (new ways to cheat/script are added to the existing list)
-Double Resources
-Spreading pvp'rs out even more (PvP in Felucca withers and dies totally. Six months later PvP in any form withers and dies totally and is eventually removed from the game)
-Added: Will prevent the majority of the players that left the game because of ... being kind PvP. For every .5 PvP returns 9.5 will NOT return because of PvP.
-Added: Will reinforce the reason why PvP should be removed from the game to existing non PvP players.
-Added: Crafters chose to NOT participate because all they do is get ganked when trying to gather resources.
Well golly, yes I do know O/C, I, unlike you, well lets just say, brought it up initially to DD. But do not let that stop you from fantasizing you know something. And it obviously worked so well, that YOU NEED TO ATTEMPT TO BRING IT BACK EVERY WEEK OR SO.
Really? So you use the logic that an existing rule set being changed to allow something it currently does not is in fact NOT A CHANGE TO THE EXISTING RULE SET.
You are repeating yourself, so I will repeat the answer for you, yes I did, I played it from the time it was in beta. When did you start?
Again your logic is interesting, you say your open minded, yet you refuse to even acknowledge that Felucca implements everything you want. Or will you rebutt that, that is under no circumstance ever an option. You mean that kind of open mind.
Lets see now, at the risk of repeating myself yet again, you propose a change to the Trammel Rule Set to set aside areas that are NO PvP. OR you have never ever participated in the very events you are so desperate to destroy. As you clearly think a) The community and / or the EM can force people to do their biding OR b) you think the Community and / or EM can change the Facet Rules when ever it suits their purpose.
Again, remarkable logic.
/Begin Sarcasm as it is the only appropriate way to treat the following
Ah no your open mindedness is showing its true dimension of openness. Anyone pointing out the flaws and failures of your ... proposal is truly wasting their time, and being a troll.
Let us counter, Perhaps you should actually play UO vs raising this baiting troll issue every week or two. As in really and truely go become a Real PKR in Felucca vs some hacking, cheating, exploiting ganker. Now there is a solution to your issue that does not consume any resources that should be devoted to enhancing the game for the overwhelming majority of subscribers.
/End Sarcasm
Enigma, clearly you do not understand the concept of voluntary PvP. No one forces you to war a guild, no one forces you into a war. We have guild wars already and yet we don't see you whining about that.
How would Order/Chaos option for a guild differ from guilds who war one another? Not even going to wait for you to answer, because we know the answer already. There is no difference! It's just a convenient way of warring one another without having to select every guild on your shard and warring them, and hoping they war you back.
How would Order/Chaos option for a guild differ from guilds who war one another? Not even going to wait for you to answer, because we know the answer already. There is no difference! It's just a convenient way of warring one another without having to select every guild on your shard and warring them, and hoping they war you back.
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imperterritus
Guest
I'd like to see chaos/order come back as well. Chaos may have "won", as CatLord posted. Still, that doesn't stop the friction between those who favor order and those who favor chaos.
Plus bringing it back would re-complete the 3x3 alignment matrix (from web page I authored back in 2001).
Plus bringing it back would re-complete the 3x3 alignment matrix (from web page I authored back in 2001).
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ElRay
Guest
Thats where you and I disagree. I think more people who are exposed to VOLUNTARY pvp, the better for this game. And I will tell you my points.
1) Wont have to deal with pk red players in Trammel/Malas etc
2) Ease of access/leaving
3) Its VOLUNTARY join up.
4) No stat loss
5) Exposure to more people in a facet that would be a lesser learning curve then learning pvp in Felucca.
This is kind of a weak arguement in 1)Its called ignore. Put them on it. 2) How many people already spam the crap out of events already with gibberish? 3) I doubt 75% of pvpers would bring their pvper to a lag induced event where you *stutter step* *lag 30 seconds* *stutter step* *lag 15 seconds*
Then please think of the positive overwhelming response that Order/Chaos should be reimplimented.
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ElRay
Guest
Yalp, alot of people wont/dont play Siege because A) Their connection is horrible to it B)New players dont get personal bless deeds that are overpowered on that shard C) Most people dont like to die over and over to the rampant PK/dismount tamer.
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ElRay
Guest
Honestly, why do you even respond to the troll?
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