Tugsoft looking at making UOA for SA

[Harlequin]

From http://www.tugsoft.com/UOAssist/default.asp

Sep 8, 2009

Got news back from EA/Mythic on 3d client. It looks like support for the UO:SA enchanced/3d client can be done BUT I have looked into it some and it will take some rework. So I'm wondering if people want support for the 3d client. If you have used the new 3d/enhanced client and want UOAssist for it what features are you specifically looking for or what new features would you like?

​

So give your feedback if you want UOA to work with SA!

 

[Black Sun]

before he starts on that massive undertaking I hope he gets imbuing and the other new skills added to the list in the classic version.

 

[Harlequin]

Yes, currently the 3 new skills don't show up currently, stacking of stuff on the ground is broken and Gargoyle characters have their HP lined in red.

He can work on this while waiting for feedback.


I think having a working UOA for the enhanced (SA) client will actually encourage players to try the enhanced client.


To be honest, I probably wouldn't have lasted as long without UOA. Besides, parasites make the host work harder, not induce laziness...So symbiote is probably more apt than parasite. Just saying...

 

[Splup]

That's GREAT News!

So where can I send feedback? Discussion boards not working...

Just send mail to [email protected] ?

 

[Kiminality]

1) I seriously doubt that Origin or Mythic ever has considered, is considering, or will ever consider what Tug may or may not do in the future in deciding what features to put into their clients. They have only done this in a reactive mode.

However, UOA has enabled a sort of development entropy in the past. With UOA providing improvements that should really be implemented into the client itself, if they prove to be desirable and approved, there was less of a drive to.
With UOA, it wasn't "broken".

2) Tug built UOA and charged $15 back before 1999 and has maintained all the upgrades to his product all that time free of charge. You can probably count the number of software products that have done this for that long on your fingers.

He still gets revenue from it, which probably more than payss for whatever time it takes.
Say he has to put in 20 hours per patch to get it up to speed. That would only require 20 people to buy it in the time the update is good for to make it $15/hour. I would suspect the numbers are a little more skewed in his favour.
Aside from necessary updates, there has been no more development of improvement. Partly this could be for maintaining approved status, with the bosses of UO through that time not clearing any new features. But there are plenty of improvements that could have been made without requiring EA's approval.
I don't see either side on a high ground, in this case.

3) UOA made the client much more usable and probably kept many players in the game longer without a cent of cost to EA. Origin/EA is leaching off the good will of third parties like TUG that do it more out of love then money.

This point feels like a stretch.
I can't disagree, but I can't agree, either.

More than parasites, I'd say the relationship is more symbiotic.
Both benefitted, but neither of them really excelled by theirselves.

 

[Tay M'real]

instead of asking 3rd parties to enhance our experience - we should be driving Mythic to continue to improve the client....

 

[Kiminality]

Although, on another note.

If EAMythic are granting Tug the permissions to develop an authorised third party program for the Enhanced Client. Does this mean that the same permissions may be requested by, and potentially granted to, others who are interested in such an endeavour?
Or does Tug still get the exclusive permission?

 

[JC the Builder]

This point feels like a stretch.

I don't think so. If UOAssist didn't exist a lot of people would have left the game faster.

UOAssist adds a lot of nice features. For example the showing corpse names on death. It has recently broken and I hate having to click all over the place to open the right monster corpse. It also helps indicate to you that a monster has actually died when the screen is packed with monsters.

 

[Amber Moon]

instead of asking 3rd parties to enhance our experience - we should be driving Mythic to continue to improve the client....

Absolutely. Perhaps you have more faith then I, which isn't really saying a lot, but I just don't think it's a priority for them. Has never been and doesn't seem like it will be unless Mythic throw more money at the dev team. How likely it that?

Perhaps if there were a unified out cry to finish the current client work and add features to the new client after all the current in game puddles have been mopped up and before anything else gets added, then yep it might get them to move.

 

[Amber Moon]

Although, on another note.

If EAMythic are granting Tug the permissions to develop an authorised third party program for the Enhanced Client. Does this mean that the same permissions may be requested by, and potentially granted to, others who are interested in such an endeavour?
Or does Tug still get the exclusive permission?

I believe that many were submitted and only three were approved when the program was started. UOA, UOAM, and a third I can't recall. I have heard others have applied and been refused since the original round but really can't say for sure.

 

[Kiminality]

I don't think so. If UOAssist didn't exist a lot of people would have left the game faster.

UOAssist adds a lot of nice features. For example the showing corpse names on death. It has recently broken and I hate having to click all over the place to open the right monster corpse. It also helps indicate to you that a monster has actually died when the screen is packed with monsters.

My disagreement is more with turning it around 180
If either of them is a parasite, it would be the one hanging off the huge corporate entity, requiring the continued success of their product in order to "survive".
UO may have floundered without UOA, but it is not so dependant on UOA as UOA is on UO.

Saying that, I don't think calling either side a parasite works.

 

[Lynk]

Based on my experience with the enhanced client, I don't really think UOA is needed for it. The macro system is very nice and so far I've been able to make all the macros I've needed in a PvP setting.

I think he should focus on 2D and leave it at that.

Who knows, if he puts out another version it will probably be both 2D and 3D, and he will probably charge for it.

 

[Harlequin]

instead of asking 3rd parties to enhance our experience - we should be driving Mythic to continue to improve the client....

Absolutely. Perhaps you have more faith then I, which isn't really saying a lot, but I just don't think it's a priority for them. Has never been and doesn't seem like it will be unless Mythic throw more money at the dev team. How likely it that?

Perhaps if there were a unified out cry to finish the current client work and add features to the new client after all the current in game puddles have been mopped up and before anything else gets added, then yep it might get them to move.

Before this line of thought goes further, consider that modders are doing the same thing to enhance our experience.

Games that allow players to create mods adds a whole new dimension to the game. Even if it's just the user interface. I think this is in fact, very forward thinking of the Devs, esp when you realize this was a feature from the onset when SA/KR was released.

 

[hawkeye_pike]

What for? I don't need any add-ons anymore since I use the Enhanced Client.

 

[Splup]

Yeah well...

Many of us tried to cry out loud for:

1. Macro recording
2. Target queue

Did we get em? No.

I mean heck, UOA has been providing these for 10 years and we didnt get those to our new 2009 client. Bandage timer wouldv also been nice. That's why I'm hoping for Tugsoft to update to UOSA.

 

[Hildebrand]

I do like how the corpse name feature worked on UOA. I wish they'd put this in EC.
For example, standing in a dozen miasma corpses and then when you kill one, it says "corpse of...". When you double click that onscreen popup, you can loot that LAST kill.

 

[Amber Moon]

reagent counts (yes sometimes I still use them)
bag organize
sell agent
hot sell bag
and more I probably can't think of right now...

 

[Hildebrand]

Bandage timer wouldv also been nice. That's why I'm hoping for Tugsoft to update to UOSA.

Um, EC does have a bandage timer. As many as you want!

 

[Hildebrand]

reagent counts (yes sometimes I still use them)
bag organize
sell agent
hot sell bag
and more I probably can't think of right now...

You can mimic the reagent count in EC.
Bag organize doesn't apply for me since I use grid view and it's all nice and neat, exactly how I want it.
never tried sell agent?
What's hot sell bag?

 

[Amber Moon]

You can mimic the reagent count in EC.
Bag organize doesn't apply for me since I use grid view and it's all nice and neat, exactly how I want it.
never tried sell agent?
What's hot sell bag?

Is the reagent count a mod?

sell agent lets you pick multiple item types and will automatically sell them when you hit 'sell' on an NPC.

Hot sell bag is similar, sells everything that is in a designated bag.

 

[Harlequin]

That's GREAT News!

So where can I send feedback? Discussion boards not working...

Just send mail to [email protected] ?

Yup, [email protected]

 

[NBG]

The auto show corpse name feature really does save alot of time on looting stacked corpses.

This feature is currently broken in 2d UOA...

How about fixing the broken features in 2d UOA first?

 

[Black Sun]

Based on my experience with the enhanced client, I don't really think UOA is needed for it. The macro system is very nice and so far I've been able to make all the macros I've needed in a PvP setting.

Yes, the macro system is better than what the classic client has (by itself). But until they make it as easy to just hit a record button and then make a macro based on my following movements/menu selections, they could do better. That is where UOA excels over either client's built in macro system. If a UOA were made for the enhanced client, I might be more interested in switching. It's not a bad client, it just lacks much of what UOA has that makes playing easier and more enjoyable.

 

[Tay M'real]

instead of asking 3rd parties to enhance our experience - we should be driving Mythic to continue to improve the client....

Absolutely. Perhaps you have more faith then I, which isn't really saying a lot, but I just don't think it's a priority for them. Has never been and doesn't seem like it will be unless Mythic throw more money at the dev team. How likely it that?

Perhaps if there were a unified out cry to finish the current client work and add features to the new client after all the current in game puddles have been mopped up and before anything else gets added, then yep it might get them to move.

Before this line of thought goes further, consider that modders are doing the same thing to enhance our experience.

Games that allow players to create mods adds a whole new dimension to the game. Even if it's just the user interface. I think this is in fact, very forward thinking of the Devs, esp when you realize this was a feature from the onset when SA/KR was released.

This is where it's different - mods are different than utilities.

The mods that we have available enhance the seeded client - new tiles, GUI designs, functionality - that's a different ballgame than utilities. I don't want to have an additional application that has to use the client as a proxy to send information. The client should be able to utilize the in-game functions in a manner that enables me to work better.

If you look at the original release for KR - the producer at the time discussed it as an enhanced client that gave the game the ability to do things that current games do. Ability to arm/disarm items, intuitive macros etc...these should all be features of the client.

And I am not so sure that Mythic/EA is not dedicated to creating a stable/scaleable client. Even now - as SA is released - it's still common knowledge (and has been reported to the community) that the enhanced client was still considered 'beta' so I have to believe that they are working through bugs and enhancements to make it a more powerful and scaleable client.

 

[Harlequin]

Is the reagent count a mod?

No, you just drag the regs to a slot and it will show much much regs you have.


Things I like in UOA-

1) Filters for sounds (I didn't realize how much I miss this until the open beta, when some joker started spamming commands at his packies at the bank)
2) Filters for snow/rain
3) Reveal powerwords
4) Autoclose vet reward gump
5) Target queing
6) Organizing agent
7) Sell agent
8) Skill management screen, sortable by delta/name/cap/base skill/modified skill
9) Setting skill states all with 1 click
10) Vendor agent
11) Much more comprehensive macro recording system

 

[Gildar]

Is the reagent count a mod?

Mod? No need for one - it's built into the client. Drag your reagents into a hotbar, and you get the count displayed.

 

[Gellor]

People are somewhat right in EA won't develop things that are handled by UOA. Why should they develop something that already exists. To me, that rates up there with having a car manufacturer develop tires

However, EA's track record shows they won't fix their own screwups in a timely manner and on big ticket items, they rarely get it right on the first try. Case in point, the much needed greater dragon fix for PvP. Instead of a nice incremental fix, we get GD worse than some "lower" pets and drastically effecting PvM

So while UOA may have some blame for UO development stunting, 90%+ of the blame falls squarely on EA's shoulders.

As for a UOA for the new client, I support it. The main reason being the number of people who will loose out on the functionality of UOAM. Any development Tugsoft does toward this doesn't effect me at all because I have no plans on using the new client... EVER.

Also, Tugsoft doing research into whether it is worth his while to make a new client version of UOA doesn't effect any development on the current UOA. What would effect current UOA development is lack of feedback

 

[Demonous]

The auto show corpse name feature really does save alot of time on looting stacked corpses.

This feature is currently broken in 2d UOA...

How about fixing the broken features in 2d UOA first?

i agree

 

[CatLord]

No, you just drag the regs to a slot and it will show much much regs you have.


Things I like in UOA-

1) Filters for sounds (I didn't realize how much I miss this until the open beta, when some joker started spamming commands at his packies at the bank)
2) Filters for snow/rain
3) Reveal powerwords
4) Autoclose vet reward gump
5) Target queing
6) Organizing agent
7) Sell agent
8) Skill management screen, sortable by delta/name/cap/base skill/modified skill
9) Setting skill states all with 1 click
10) Vendor agent
11) Much more comprehensive macro recording system

Hello Harlequin...

Cant all of these options be added to the new client?

 

[TheGhostRaider]

UOA, have been a big part of this game and enchant the game play, Just do like they always did, upgrade the client so what broken can work again and add the news skill. I will not ask for lot, As for me I play 2D. So maybe in a few days we will have a new patch. X finger.

 

[Harlequin]

No, you just drag the regs to a slot and it will show much much regs you have.


Things I like in UOA-

1) Filters for sounds (I didn't realize how much I miss this until the open beta, when some joker started spamming commands at his packies at the bank)
2) Filters for snow/rain
3) Reveal powerwords
4) Autoclose vet reward gump
5) Target queing
6) Organizing agent
7) Sell agent
8) Skill management screen, sortable by delta/name/cap/base skill/modified skill
9) Setting skill states all with 1 click
10) Vendor agent
11) Much more comprehensive macro recording system

Hello Harlequin...

Cant all of these options be added to the new client?

Hello CatLord!

From a technical perspective, yes, they can. And if they do, it'll be so much more efficient.

But they aren't. I suspect at the moment, they are looking at stuff that's probably higher on the priority list which is less UI related and leaving the UI part to modders.

The current state of things is that there are things that modders can't add to the UI like what UOA does.

I fully understand what people mean when they say "Hey, UOA can do that already, let's look at doing something else". On one hand, it does look like they did not upgrade the UI as much as they should have. But on the other hand, if they had devoted their resources to do this, that means they are not looking at other stuff.

When something doesn't go right, it's very easy to look point fingers at the flaws say "Well, yeah, if they hadn't been been lazy, they would have made it better". But it's human nature to overlook the good that people have done in these situations.

At this point, I'd rather the Devs (content, bug fixes) and Tug (client enhancements) do what they are good at respectively. Hopes that makes sense.

 

[altarego]

UOA is one of the biggest reasons people won't leave their 2D comfort 'bankie'. Many of the features folks are asking for are already implemented in EC. So basically, anyone asking for updates to the 2D UA are just digging in their heels and forcing another 2D vs. EC confrontation in the future, when eventually 2D *will* be phased out.

Now, if UA came back and worked with Mythic to find out what couldn't possibly or reasonably be implemented in EC and added those sorts of features, that would be something that would benefit UO as a whole.

 

[Black Sun]

So basically, anyone asking for updates to the 2D UA are just digging in their heels and forcing another 2D vs. EC confrontation in the future, when eventually 2D *will* be phased out.

There are a lot of people who prefer the classic client over the other choices presented thus far. It's not being stubborn, it's a matter of preference. I can play the enhanced client, it's much more tolerable than KR was. But I still prefer the classic client with UOA. Like I said before, when they make a macro system as good as UOA has, I'd likely switch over to the newer client. Until that time, I'll stay with the classic client and UOA, together they have a much better macro system than the enhanced client has.

Also, I doubt EA will discontinue the client the majority of it's customers use. That'd be like biting the hand that feeds you clean off. They're not stupid.

 

[Lord Drakelord]

I don't think so. If UOAssist didn't exist a lot of people would have left the game faster.

So very true!

 

[Lord Drakelord]

What for? I don't need any add-ons anymore since I use the Enhanced Client.

well I am not using that client, not since closed and open beta. I went back to old 2d and my UOA. Sorry but the art in the other client makes me ill, I hate the avatar in the health bar, I hate the paper dolls, I hate the interface, sorry but I happen to like how I can set my options in 2d and also use my macro in UOA.

I wish that 2d had a map system like the 3d [sorry, to me its 3d] side of the coin, I really miss having that UOAM map on my screen when walking around in the abyss.

I am glad that Tug is keeping UOA updated!

 

[Tyr Antilles]

well I am not using that client, not since closed and open beta. I went back to old 2d and my UOA. Sorry but the art in the other client makes me ill, I hate the avatar in the health bar, I hate the paper dolls, I hate the interface, sorry but I happen to like how I can set my options in 2d and also use my macro in UOA.

I wish that 2d had a map system like the 3d [sorry, to me its 3d] side of the coin, I really miss having that UOAM map on my screen when walking around in the abyss.

I am glad that Tug is keeping UOA updated!

***************************************************
I totally agree ! For me the real Ultima Online will always be the old 2D and I would like very much to see UOA updated. What I miss the most is a good MAP of the world like it was UO Automap. If only Tugusoft will include such a map on their update...

 

[EnigmaMaitreya]

Perhaps this is as good a thread as any to put a bit of historical context to UO and UOA.

Keep in mind this occurred when UO was massively growing, had massive amounts of capital etc.

When what you know now as UOA first appeared, Designer Dragon / OSI were calling the use of it a violation of the ToS, and people would be banned.

A discussion was had with DD that there were two paths he could take.

He could follow the current path (a violation of the ToS) and get into a war, with the users and the Techno people that live to do such things (reverse engineer things and build things to take advantage of the information gathered). As a side not, Steve Jobs made a statement about Digital Rights Management that is appropriate. I will paraphrase, “There are 600 million people out there and some of them have absolutely nothing better to do with their lives than to figure out a means to defeat your bullet proof security system”

He could validate the program and place strict guidelines etc. And reap the rewards of the “free” augmentation to the client.

In retrospect, I think the conversation should have been more along the lines of keeping the program a violation. It may be of interest to you to read on.

While there was money to do it, it may have served UO's best interest to focus more on the security of the game. The catching of cheats and hacks etc. It may have changed the evolution of UO/OSI.

It is not clear that the code UOA has developed is as well guarded and protected from reverse engineering as the UO community may wish it were.

IF the UO community wants the Cheats, the Hacks, the Dupes etc to be brought under control then perhaps the UO community needs to make some difficult choices.

 

[o2bavr6]

A few points....

1) I seriously doubt that Origin or Mythic ever has considered, is considering, or will ever consider what Tug may or may not do in the future in deciding what features to put into their clients. They have only done this in a reactive mode.

2) Tug built UOA and charged $15 back before 1999 and has maintained all the upgrades to his product all that time free of charge. You can probably count the number of software products that have done this for that long on your fingers.

3) UOA made the client much more usable and probably kept many players in the game longer without a cent of cost to EA. Origin/EA is leaching off the good will of third parties like TUG that do it more out of love then money

Good post!!

 

[o2bavr6]

He still gets revenue from it, which probably more than pays for whatever time it takes.

I doubt he has anywhere near the new client base that he had in the old days.

I can say that if it wasn't for UOA, I probably would have quit UO well before AoS, and I've been playing since 1997.

It took UO years to add some of the features that UOA had.. can you say arm/disarm? heh

 

[Beer_Cayse]

you have access to source code that is 10 years or more old? <disbelieving look>

Tugsoft (UOA) is an approved (by EA) program. I don't see any stipulation that it is 2D only, thus if he gets the approval an SA-UOA wouldn't hurt.

EA has yet to implement 1/2 of the UOA features that I use, so 2D (Classic) and UOA for me. I just wish he'd get it updated for Garg stuff/skills, but I can work around that.

 

[mjolnir131]

Yeah well...

Many of us tried to cry out loud for:

1. Macro recording
2. Target queue

Did we get em? No.

I mean heck, UOA has been providing these for 10 years and we didnt get those to our new 2009 client. Bandage timer wouldv also been nice. That's why I'm hoping for Tugsoft to update to UOSA.

there is an band-aid timer watch the toolbar

 

[jfkeach]

I would say, FIX the UOAssist for Windows 7 operating system first. If UOAssist is running on windows 7, with the new 2d client, it grabs focus, thereby other applications require you to alt-tab to get into them like Vent. Or UO Homeowner, Or UOTamer, programs which I love to use. This has only happened since SA went live and I had to switch to the new 2d client. UOAssist is the problem becuase if I run the client without UOAssist I do not have these issues.

 

[shanshu]

I keep getting a patch error message when I try and run UOA now. I am using the classic client.

 

[Splup]

I would say, FIX the UOAssist for Windows 7 operating system first. If UOAssist is running on windows 7, with the new 2d client, it grabs focus, thereby other applications require you to alt-tab to get into them like Vent. Or UO Homeowner, Or UOTamer, programs which I love to use. This has only happened since SA went live and I had to switch to the new 2d client. UOAssist is the problem becuase if I run the client without UOAssist I do not have these issues.

Try running Ventrilo as administor and make sure you have Use Direct Input to detect hotkey on.

Should work.

 

[Splup]

I keep getting a patch error message when I try and run UOA now. I am using the classic client.

Try running UOA as administor.

 

[jfkeach]

I run UOAssist, UO as an administrator, tried not running them as administrator. Tried running the other apps as administrator. Tried every freaking thing i can think of.

 

[jfkeach]

Well, running the other apps as administrator started working. I started the apps first then started the client using UOAssist. Now, I can start the client first, and the other apps work. Go figure. Beats me. I am surely confused. But it works, so I am happy. I can use UOTamer and home owner again. Now if someone will replace UOAutomap, ill be really happy.

 

[Petra Fyde]

I'm confused. What 'new 2D client' are you using? There are two clients. The enhanced, which doesn't work with uoa anyway, and the classic, which is our regular 2D client we've been using for years. There has been absolutely no need to switch to a new client.
For a short period there was a 2D version which was patched with SA content for testing, as soon as the content went live and was therefore patched into our regular client that version became obsolete.

 

[Vyal]

Ya'll need to stop supporting this guy and his rip offs...
You all know he used injection source code to make uoa right? Now hes charging people for it don't you?

 

[Vyal]

Thats why there are like 7 diff programs exactly like uoa but free hmmmm why? Cause the source has been out there since 98 the guy just managed to get it uopro and now charges people for it.